Why are people scared of taxes?

[nobbynobbynoob]

It's also worth noting that someone said not so long ago "The Fed can and does tax you far more than the IRS ever will". Bitcoin can help to solve that particular problem at least.

By the way, anarchy does not mean no rules, just no rulers. Yes, it's idealistic, but it would hypothetically look like a societal version of the way Bitcoin works: fundamental rules but not central authority, just peer-to-peer networking. One big thing that might scare me a bit about anarchy is what could happen afterwards. If one well-armed, well-disciplined militia decides it's bored with the non-aggression principle, and wants to become the new government...

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[myrkul]

If one well-armed, well-disciplined militia decides it's bored with the non-aggression principle, and wants to become the new government...

Then another (probably several) will put them down. I also note that you didn't include "well-funded".... Hard to get voluntary funding when you're the biggest asshole on the block.

[dirtycat]

I don't know why ppl are always scared of paying taxes.
taxes are actually a great thing but only if everyone pays them and if they are spend on useful things only. Just look out your window and you will see lots of things paid with your taxes you use everyday.

not scared of them.. just despise them!

[TheButterZone]

Click for full size:

Caption: Result of the successful, taxpayer-funded US Executive Branch false flag op to justify more "gun control" (victim disarmament), Operation Fast and Furious. The operation forced Federal Firearms Licensees (at threat of government force) to supply violent drug cartels with rifles, resulting in thousands of innocent deaths to date and untold more in the future. As a result, the FFLs were subjected to defamation, shutdown, criminal sanctions, and increased victim disarming-regulations while the government pretended that it wasn't 100% at fault for the entrapment, arming known felons, and violating numerous state and federal laws.

[Kontakt]

If one well-armed, well-disciplined militia decides it's bored with the non-aggression principle, and wants to become the new government...

Then another (probably several) will put them down. I also note that you didn't include "well-funded".... Hard to get voluntary funding when you're the biggest asshole on the block.

But what if they're not the biggest asshole on the block?
I'm sure you're familiar with the 'cult of personality' phenomena.
If someone with a very large amount of charisma, a natural leader started his own government, many would follow.
If they were following him because they believed in him, they would fight harder and better than any group of people that banded together because they were within 20 feet of each other. Besides, he wouldn't have to be aggressive to form a government. Just have a bunch of people under his wings, and when they have, or appear to have, things better than anyone struggling on there own, people will flock to him.

[myrkul]

First off, without taxes, who would pay for infrastructure? I don't think anyone would voluntarily fund it.

The question of who would pay for the roads has been discussed to death.

Next off, how would the government even manage to exist? Making the positions in government unpaid, volunteer positions would just make it more exclusive for the rich, who would be the only people who could afford to hold such a position.

You assume any of those positions would be necessary.

Then you have the problem of lack of regulation. What's to stop a company from making poisonous products and selling them for a short period before booking it with the profits?

No rulers does not mean no rules. If you damage someone, you're liable for recompense. No government also means no corporate protections, so the CEO doesn't get to let the company die while he skates with a "golden parachute."

What's to stop me from robbing your house? No money means no police, no firemen, no ambulances, no sort of government subsidized public-service sector what-so-ever. 

If there is a need for these services, they will be provided, at better rates and with better service, by the market (ie, private companies), than by a violence-funded monopoly.

But what if they're not the biggest asshole on the block?
I'm sure you're familiar with the 'cult of personality' phenomena.
If someone with a very large amount of charisma, a natural leader started his own government, many would follow.
If they were following him because they believed in him, they would fight harder and better than any group of people that banded together because they were within 20 feet of each other. Besides, he wouldn't have to be aggressive to form a government. Just have a bunch of people under his wings, and when they have, or appear to have, things better than anyone struggling on there own, people will flock to him.

If they don't use force to achieve their goals or acquire their funding, they're not a government. Nor would they cause any problems in an AnCap society. What you describe is not the scenario that was suggested.

[Kontakt]

So you define government as a force-bearing entity?

[420]

i am totally libertarian except for the idea of...who owns the roads and transportation?

right to travel i see as a RIGHT, and thus TOLL ROADS are restricting our right to travel

who can answer me?

[Kontakt]

i am totally libertarian except for the idea of...who owns the roads and transportation?

right to travel i see as a RIGHT, and thus TOLL ROADS are restricting our right to travel

who can answer me?

Roads are expensive to maintain, and a nightmare to upgrade. Toll roads result from the privatization of roads or bridges. Have you noticed how much nicer toll roads are? That's because the money from the tolls goes directly towards maintaining the road. Instead of being paid for by taxes, they're paid for by the toll. Think of it more like an immediately collected, direct tax. You will pay for using the road, it's just pay later to the government or pay now to the road manufacturer.

[420]

i am totally libertarian except for the idea of...who owns the roads and transportation?

right to travel i see as a RIGHT, and thus TOLL ROADS are restricting our right to travel

who can answer me?

Roads are expensive to maintain, and a nightmare to upgrade. Toll roads result from the privatization of roads or bridges. Have you noticed how much nicer toll roads are? That's because the money from the tolls goes directly towards maintaining the road. Instead of being paid for by taxes, they're paid for by the toll. Think of it more like an immediately collected, direct tax. You will pay for using the road, it's just pay later to the government or pay now to the road manufacturer.

Also i don't want to be chipped & tracked, and i dont want to stop and hand someone paper slowing down my travel time either.

i know how obscenely inefficient government is at maintaining roads

[Kontakt]

i am totally libertarian except for the idea of...who owns the roads and transportation?

right to travel i see as a RIGHT, and thus TOLL ROADS are restricting our right to travel

who can answer me?

Roads are expensive to maintain, and a nightmare to upgrade. Toll roads result from the privatization of roads or bridges. Have you noticed how much nicer toll roads are? That's because the money from the tolls goes directly towards maintaining the road. Instead of being paid for by taxes, they're paid for by the toll. Think of it more like an immediately collected, direct tax. You will pay for using the road, it's just pay later to the government or pay now to the road manufacturer.

Also i don't want to be chipped & tracked, and i dont want to stop and hand someone paper slowing down my travel time either.

i know how obscenely inefficient government is at maintaining roads

So is it better to pay a toll or a tax? You have to have one or the other if you like having roads worth using. There's no way to pay a toll without being tracked, and there are easier ways to track you than Fast/EZpass. Do you have OnStar? A later model car? Built in GPS? You can be located with that. Cell phone? Trilocated. Passport? RFID. Credit cards? Transactions are logged. Traffic cameras watch intersections 24/7, recording every car that passes by. There are much easier ways to track you than your toll pass.

[420]

i am totally libertarian except for the idea of...who owns the roads and transportation?

right to travel i see as a RIGHT, and thus TOLL ROADS are restricting our right to travel

who can answer me?

Roads are expensive to maintain, and a nightmare to upgrade. Toll roads result from the privatization of roads or bridges. Have you noticed how much nicer toll roads are? That's because the money from the tolls goes directly towards maintaining the road. Instead of being paid for by taxes, they're paid for by the toll. Think of it more like an immediately collected, direct tax. You will pay for using the road, it's just pay later to the government or pay now to the road manufacturer.

Also i don't want to be chipped & tracked, and i dont want to stop and hand someone paper slowing down my travel time either.

i know how obscenely inefficient government is at maintaining roads

So is it better to pay a toll or a tax? You have to have one or the other if you like having roads worth using. There's no way to pay a toll without being tracked, and there are easier ways to track you than Fast/EZpass. Do you have OnStar? A later model car? Built in GPS? You can be located with that. Cell phone? Trilocated. Passport? RFID. Credit cards? Transactions are logged. Traffic cameras watch intersections 24/7, recording every car that passes by. There are much easier ways to track you than your toll pass.

its more convenient to pay taxes and know i dont have to worry about not being able to travel freely because someone else owns the means of getting to another place

don't have those in car except cellphone

i was waiting for compromised solution but I'll just say the one I realized

most freeways are too congested. So have technically private owners but require current lanes maintained for public at no cost and allow the private owners to buy the area to be able to build additional lanes where they may charge fees and thus have less cars and be able to avoid traffic congestion

many problems are solved by the idea I lay out there

[Kontakt]

So taxes serve a convenient and logical purpose here. Allocation and implementation could be better, but it works out.

[Richy_T]

And democracy is itself founded on a logical fallacy: The idea that if a lot of people agree on something, it must be right.

I think it's more founded on the idea that if one lot of people disagree with another lot of people, sticking a piece of paper in a box is preferable to tearing chunks out of each other.

[420]

And democracy is itself founded on a logical fallacy: The idea that if a lot of people agree on something, it must be right.

I think it's more founded on the idea that if one lot of people disagree with another lot of people, sticking a piece of paper in a box is preferable to tearing chunks out of each other.

+1

[TheButterZone]

And democracy is itself founded on a logical fallacy: The idea that if a lot of people agree on something, it must be right.

I think it's more founded on the idea that if one lot of people disagree with another lot of people, sticking a piece of paper in a box is preferable to tearing chunks out of each other.

If voting could actually change anything and <1 elections were not decided by fraud, it would be illegal.

[Richy_T]

its more convenient to pay taxes [...]

So other people should be coerced, with threat of force, to pay for your convenience. Gotcha.

[420]

its more convenient to pay taxes [...]

So other people should be coerced, with threat of force, to pay for your convenience. Gotcha.

wow, why would you support force on people?

[Lethos]

I don't like paying taxes, just like everyone else. I'm certainly not all for them, but they are necessary, as private business' have proven to act too greedy and all too concerned about profits in most industries to be trusted, to provide an affordable service for all.
I'd much rather keep hold of all my money if I could. A good accountant and a good understand of tax laws goes a long way to helping here. I think abusing the tax loops holes is bad too, however, if you make huge amounts of money, trying to pay an average of just single digits in taxes is just cheeky here.
I live in a country (UK), which overall taxes things quiet a lot, if you wanted to compare it even to other first world countries. We pay a lot in taxes, but there is a lot more benefits and government funded services because of it.

I remind myself of the huge benefits of those taxes are put towards, like Our National Health System, as probably the best example.

I don't pay a single penny, not a single fuss over payment at all, if I got rushed to the hospital, in an ambulance or by helicopter, had to spend an entire week in intensive care and then needed supportive care once I got discharged eventually. This could happen to me, due to the nature of a medical condition I have. I has already 3 times in my life. Yet I still work and contribute via my taxes, and it contributes maybe a low single digit % of my income. I'm not treated as a risky individual or taxed more because of my condition.

Not everyone will need this, but there are medical procedures/treatments that nearly everyone of my family and friends have had or will probably need over their life time, that I know cost 1000's or 10,000's+ privately, and it would of been a harder decision for them to even consider doing it, knowing it will cost them personal, or their insurance is going to fight to not pay it, even though you'd be paying premiums for years. I have friends all over the world and I have heard how they or their friends/family have managed to rack up medical debt bill so big it basically bankrupts and cripples their lives, through no fault of their own.

Yes I truly love the Free health care system here, especially when I talk to my Dad who moved to America (California) ~ 12 years ago and has to deal with being a diabetic and getting insurance + out of pocket expenses. It costs him a fortune and comparatively speaking, when you compare the taxes he paid towards NHS to what he now pays in America for the same on going treatment. Guess which costs him more. Luckily he is a highly skilled individual, but it's going to be a lot harder for him as he gets older.

Yes, Government services funded by taxes do end up with a lot of management types getting paid too much, in my opinion, but it's still nothing compared to the private sector and how much they pay theirs, and their shareholders, investors etc. That is your only option if you don't pay taxes to government for certain services, that services would go private and their is certain things I would not want to go private once you are on the receiving end of how big of difference their is between the two cost wise.

My Partner works for the NHS, not as a manager, just as an OT. So my experience is slightly bias, but I have experienced both our NHS and private health care in the UK. Yes our private health care is excellent, but it's silly expensive just like in the USA. How ever, the NHS standard is still very good.

[Kontakt]

^ good points.

I remembered why I don't like the AnaCap model. Let me ask you this; Have you played a game called DayZ?