[Announcement] Avalon ASIC Batch #1 Ships

[niko]

https://www.rsa.com/rsalabs/node.asp?id=2333

China

China is one of the countries with the strongest restrictions on cryptography; a license is required for export, import, or domestic use of any cryptography product. There are several restrictions on export regulations, and China is not participating in the Wassenaar Arrangement.

So? Mining doesn't do any cryptography.

I agree, but I can see how a bureaucrat might disagree. Most of resources refer to SHA256 as a "cryptographic hash function". Avalon might sneak through, or they might be required to obtain a license - which may take a while.

Can we go back to this and talk about what this means for Avalon importing their products and how it's different than a company shipping from inside the US?

I am now pushing this explanation up to the top of my list of most likely explanations for the delay in shipment updates.

1. Export license paperwork turned out to be more complicated that they thought (if they thought at all).

2. Unanticipated logistic issues with assembly

3. Interpersonal issues within the team, including a rogue and scammy team member

4. The Relic Dealer and his infantry stormed the warehouse, took everyone hostage, and by mistake started mining on one of alt chains

[1714486408]

1714486408

[1714486408]

1714486408

[jl2012]

https://www.rsa.com/rsalabs/node.asp?id=2333

China

China is one of the countries with the strongest restrictions on cryptography; a license is required for export, import, or domestic use of any cryptography product. There are several restrictions on export regulations, and China is not participating in the Wassenaar Arrangement.

So? Mining doesn't do any cryptography.

I agree, but I can see how a bureaucrat might disagree. Most of resources refer to SHA256 as a "cryptographic hash function". Avalon might sneak through, or they might be required to obtain a license - which may take a while.

Can we go back to this and talk about what this means for Avalon importing their products and how it's different than a company shipping from inside the US?

I am now pushing this explanation up to the top of my list of most likely explanations for the delay in shipment updates.

1. Export license paperwork turned out to be more complicated that they thought (if they thought at all).

2. Unanticipated logistic issues with assembly

3. Interpersonal issues within the team, including a rogue and scammy team member

4. The Relic Dealer and his infantry stormed the warehouse, took everyone hostage, and by mistake started mining on one of alt chains

Until there is end-user report from China, any excuse like "customs" or "export license" is just BS

[bitmar]

I hope they keep their tricks a secret until BFL starts building the PCB's and commits hard money to completing their project.

I doubt at that point any BFL customer will get their cash back.

Josh can correct me if I am wrong about this and tell his customers that they can pull their cash out of this venture at any point (without limitations) prior to shipping.

Even they have legitimate reasons to keep the spec secret, there is absolutely no reason to keep the tracking number secret.

Doesn't having the tracking number give you access to the recipients address? Perhaps it's for privacy.

LOL 
They don't give tracking numbers to their customers No one expects that they will give those numbers to the public.

[SolarSilver]

Doesn't having the tracking number give you access to the recipients address? Perhaps it's for privacy.

Not the full destination address but with a bit of google you can figure out where Jeff Garzik lives, call up DHL, pretend to be him, fill in some of the default questions they ask you once you give them the tracking number and change the package destination.

If you do, I'd prefer that you use Jeffs current workplace in Brussels at our offices, we'll hold it for him ;-)

Publishing a tracking number public before the package has arrived is a bad idea.
Sending the tracking number of a package on route to the customer is common courtesy.
 

[cedivad]

Doesn't having the tracking number give you access to the recipients address? Perhaps it's for privacy.

Not the full destination address but with a bit of google you can figure out where Jeff Garzik lives, call up DHL, pretend to be him, fill in some of the default questions they ask you once you give them the tracking number and change the package destination.

If you do, I'd prefer that you use Jeffs current workplace in Brussels at our offices, we'll hold it for him ;-)

Publishing a tracking number public before the package has arrived is a bad idea.
Sending the tracking number of a package on route to the customer is common courtesy.
 

I did that even witout a tracking number. With DHL.

[Salazarian]

What I dont understand, why does not Jeff Garzik ask DHL for the tracking id?

Holy fucking shit are all people here STUPID AND BLIND?

You can just ask DHL with your identity for tracking numbers personally via DHL , just need to phone them!

Its fucking suspicious that still Jeff Garzik is doing NOTHING, nor Avalon gives ANY confirmation or proof of shipment!
Lack of comunication KILLS economy of Avalon! We saw this already with BTCFPGA, the're dead!

[Micon]

[jl2012]

What I dont understand, why does not Jeff Garzik ask DHL for the tracking id?

Holy fucking shit are all people here STUPID AND BLIND?

You can just ask DHL with your identity for tracking numbers personally via DHL , just need to phone them!

Its fucking suspicious that still Jeff Garzik is doing NOTHING, nor Avalon gives ANY confirmation or proof of shipment!
Lack of comunication KILLS economy of Avalon! We saw this already with BTCFPGA, the're dead!

No, BTCFPGA was killed because they accepted CC.

[squid]

What I dont understand, why does not Jeff Garzik ask DHL for the tracking id?

Holy fucking shit are all people here STUPID AND BLIND?

You can just ask DHL with your identity for tracking numbers personally via DHL , just need to phone them!

Its fucking suspicious that still Jeff Garzik is doing NOTHING, nor Avalon gives ANY confirmation or proof of shipment!
Lack of comunication KILLS economy of Avalon! We saw this already with BTCFPGA, the're dead!

No, BTCFPGA was killed because they accepted CC.

Uh.. no BTCFPGA was killed because cablepair had no idea what he was doing.

[crazyates]

What I dont understand, why does not Jeff Garzik ask DHL for the tracking id?

Holy fucking shit are all people here STUPID AND BLIND?

You can just ask DHL with your identity for tracking numbers personally via DHL , just need to phone them!

Its fucking suspicious that still Jeff Garzik is doing NOTHING, nor Avalon gives ANY confirmation or proof of shipment!
Lack of comunication KILLS economy of Avalon! We saw this already with BTCFPGA, the're dead!

No, BTCFPGA was killed because they accepted CC.

Uh.. no BTCFPGA was killed because cablepair had no idea what he was doing.

+1

[PuertoLibre]

Can someone please post what are the BTC addresses accepted for each ASIC company?

I was looking through one of bASIC's addresses and it shows they only took in 541,000 USD (in BTC).

What are the addresses for BFL and Avalon?

[Luke-Jr]

Can someone please post what are the BTC addresses accepted for each ASIC company?

I was looking through one of bASIC's addresses and it shows they only took in 541,000 USD (in BTC).

What are the addresses for BFL and Avalon?

That's not how Bitcoin works.

[Inaba]

Yes, because keeping tabs on a competitor's thread is "following PuertoLibre around."  heh... god you are such an idiot I just can't believe it sometimes.

Yet you say exactly the same. Thank you for admitting you are an idiot.

Really?  Can you show me where?  Please point out where I have followed you around to an unrelated thread, posting on a unrelated topic that has nothing to do with me or my company where you haven't mentioned myself or BFL or both in a derogatory manner.  See that's the difference, I don't care what you post so long as you aren't posting lies and bullshit about myself or BFL.  You, on the other hand, seem to care about every post I make and follow me into threads that have nothing to do with Avalon, have no referenced you in any way and basically have nothing to do with you.

And just as a point of reference, because you keep repeating this fiction.  BFL did not raise it's specs because of Avalon is not now nor has it ever been competitive with BFL products.  We raised our specs due to bASIC.  Avalon played exactly zero factor into our decision, and in fact if I recall they responded to BFL by lowering their $1999 price point because they knew no one would pay $2000 for a 66 GH/s device when they could get a 60 GH/s device for $1299.  So BFL forced Avalon to price their units at a more reasonable level instead of gouging customers.  You're welcome for that.

[wndrbr3d]

And here we are a week later.

No pictures, no videos, no proof. The folks who were supposedly getting their units haven't been provided shipping confirmation/tracking and we're still just as much in the dark as ever.

I -STILL- stand by my original comment that they're just using this thread and the FUD it'll generate to buy them some time to avoid announcing an embarrassing delay like every other ASIC manufacturer. I mean, if anything, it's safe to say at this point that they're just as delayed as everyone else.

[PuertoLibre]

Yes, because keeping tabs on a competitor's thread is "following PuertoLibre around."  heh... god you are such an idiot I just can't believe it sometimes.

Yet you say exactly the same. Thank you for admitting you are an idiot.

Really?  Can you show me where?  Please point out where I have followed you around to an unrelated thread, posting on a unrelated topic that has nothing to do with me or my company where you haven't mentioned myself or BFL or both in a derogatory manner.  See that's the difference, I don't care what you post so long as you aren't posting lies and bullshit about myself or BFL.  You, on the other hand, seem to care about every post I make and follow me into threads that have nothing to do with Avalon, have no referenced you in any way and basically have nothing to do with you.

And just as a point of reference, because you keep repeating this fiction.  BFL did not raise it's specs because of Avalon is not now nor has it ever been competitive with BFL products.  We raised our specs due to bASIC.  Avalon played exactly zero factor into our decision, and in fact if I recall they responded to BFL by lowering their $1999 price point because they knew no one would pay $2000 for a 66 GH/s device when they could get a 60 GH/s device for $1299.  So BFL forced Avalon to price their units at a more reasonable level instead of gouging customers.  You're welcome for that.

Is this a joke??

<PL: Takes a good look above and makes sure I am in the Avalon thread. Double checks that he is quoting me and is talking to me with directed questions.>

<Continues on my last thought>

Yeah, I do believe you do follow people around. Perhaps you have a smart phone tracking the so called "clown posse" as you once called us that. Sometimes, I post and your immediately responding.

Perhaps it is a mere coincidence? <shrugs>

[king_pin]

And here we are a week later.

No pictures, no videos, no proof. The folks who were supposedly getting their units haven't been provided shipping confirmation/tracking and we're still just as much in the dark as ever.

I -STILL- stand by my original comment that they're just using this thread and the FUD it'll generate to buy them some time to avoid announcing an embarrassing delay like every other ASIC manufacturer. I mean, if anything, it's safe to say at this point that they're just as delayed as everyone else.

+1

Funny thing is that they expect us to believe that they shipped 6 day ago, and there is no rise in difficulty, on the contrary it drops
(and no proof ans mentioned above)
They are doing the same as BFL - at the beginning they deny every accusation, and will admit to anything only when it is inevitable.

P.S. Josh stfu you are the biggest scammer, no one believes anything u say

[PuertoLibre]

And just as a point of reference, because you keep repeating this fiction.  BFL did not raise it's specs because of Avalon is not now nor has it ever been competitive with BFL products.  

I believe it is just a coincidence that you have stated a dozen or so times that BFL would remain competitive with any competitors offerings.

Then coincidentally raised your specs [50%] from 40 to 60 to meet Avalons 60Gh/s. (at that time)

Purely by Coincidence of course?

We raised our specs due to bASIC.  

Strange. It almost sounds like a lie coming from you.

bASIC remained at 54Gh/s until just recently. In December they took on the initiative to produce a redesign for 72Gh/s before they imploded due to customer concerns and refunds.

Perhaps what you are actually leading me to believe is that BFL does not intentionally compete with certain ASIC companies? A strange admittance coming from you.

Then I suppose you no longer have a competitor and don't need to worry about Avalon raising it's specs up to 66Gh/s. BFL customer will be glad to know they will not have to worry about you "over-competing" with the now defunct ASIC player.

I wonder if this is good news. Or if you are losing your marbles?

Avalon played exactly zero factor into our decision, and in fact if I recall they responded to BFL by lowering their $1999 price point because they knew no one would pay $2000 for a 66 GH/s device when they could get a 60 GH/s device for $1299.  

So Avalon competes with BFL....but BFL does not compete with Avalon.

Quite the strange tale you are admitting to.

(By the way, they raised the price to $1499 for the next batch. I wonder why they would be crazy enough to do that?)

So BFL forced Avalon to price their units at a more reasonable level instead of gouging customers.  You're welcome for that.

Indeed.

Up to this day I thought it was BFL who had made their GH/s to dollar ratio more competitive.

Now I see I was mistaken. I thought I had seen you say you were the best. Now I see you are only competing against certain ASICs (not all of them).

This means that Avalon can do it's thing for it is none of your concern, correct?

-------------------

I also recall someone at BFL stating that they had given 20GH/s extra as compensation for delays. Which amounted to 45 days at the time. Now that you are approaching 90 days, I supposed BFL will do the right thing and overclock yet again to compensate their good (and patient) customers with another 20GH/s. Bringing your total to about 80Gh/s.

Strangely enough it seems every time you bump the specs...new troubles arise.


Strange.

[PuertoLibre]

Of course, I would never imply that your troubles arise because you compete. No, I would never say that.

[klondike_bar]

Yes, because keeping tabs on a competitor's thread is "following PuertoLibre around."  heh... god you are such an idiot I just can't believe it sometimes.

Yet you say exactly the same. Thank you for admitting you are an idiot.

Really?  Can you show me where?  Please point out where I have followed you around to an unrelated thread, posting on a unrelated topic that has nothing to do with me or my company

geez you are a drama queen. There's no reason why you cant post in the avalon thread, just like PL obsessively posts pithy things in the BFL thread. The fact that you guys are using threads to bicker with oneanother is just dumb.

PuertoLibre looks like a troll, and you clearly fall for his bait.
Inaba, you demonstrate NONE of the traits i desire in an employee or public representative of a company. You go wildly off-topic, insult people frequently both in and outside of the BFL thread, and IMHO have nothing to back up your sh*tty attitude with because your product is still [at least] several weeks away from shipping, following MONTHS of delays.


Bitsyncom is doing things right as i see it. He posted some crucial info, answered some questions, and dissapeared again presumably to go work on the manufacturing, packaging and shipping of the AVALON product. The lack of photos means nothing to me, because it would meaningless to post them, since BFL posted thier pics months ago and yet has shipped nothing. Real photographic evidence will come from the first people to receive thier ASICs and post images (and hopefully a teardown) for themselves.

HOWEVER, the lack of a tracking number is a bit odd. On the face, it indicates that units are NOT shipping out as promised and stated. maybe there is a strategy to this, and they would rather hold the numbers themselves until the day of/before delivery, so that they can surprise everyone with their 'amazing' technology. That may not be the case, but i'm comfortable playing devil's advocate to the legions of posters complaining that theres no evidence/no photos/ no pre-order list/ etc.

[Inaba]

See, it's posts like the above that make me think you are literally mentally retarded.  You just start spewing bullshit that has disconnected from anything that was previously posted, it's incredible.  You can't help yourself from either lying or being so misinformed that you are just an idiot.

Lets look at what you've written:

I believe it is just a coincidence that you have stated a dozen or so times that BFL would remain competitive with any competitors offerings.

Then coincidentally raised your specs [50%] from 40 to 60 to meet Avalons 60Gh/s. (at that time)

Purely by Coincidence of course?

Yes, we've stated that, and as I've already pointed out, we raised it because of bASIC, not Avalon.  We did not give a crap about 66 GH/s at $2000.  We did, however, give a crap about 54 GH/s at $1069.  If you can't see the difference and why this is, I can't help you.  Please go back to elementary math.

bASIC remained at 54Gh/s until just recently. In December they took on the initiative to produce a redesign for 72Gh/s before they imploded due to customer concerns and refunds.

Perhaps what you are actually leading me to believe is that BFL does not intentionally compete with certain ASIC companies? A strange admittance coming from you.

Then I suppose you no longer have a competitor and don't need to worry about Avalon raising it's specs up to 66Gh/s. BFL customer will be glad to know they will not have to worry about you "over-competing" with the now defunct ASIC player.

I wonder if this is good news. Or if you are losing your marbles?

Do you actually read what you write?  This is incoherent babbling for the most part, but that's not surprising coming from you.  Especially now that you're in panic mode that your Avalons actually are pieces of shit and they apparently haven't shipped on time, either.  (remains to be seen on the shipping)...  

bASIC did not take the initiative in December with 72 GH/s... we knew it was all bullshit then, which is why I stated we would match a shipping product.  There is simply no way for Tom to have shipped a 72 GH/s product at 120w at 90nm structured ASIC... sorry.  Anyone with any common sense knew this was impossible, except you, but you never had common sense, so it's not surprising.  But you're right, Avalon is not a competitor at 400w for 66 GH/s at $1299 or especially $1499.  Does that mean we won't raise the speed on our units? I  don't know, we haven't decided yet... but if it do it's not because of Avalon heh.

So Avalon competes with BFL....but BFL does not compete with Avalon.

Quite the strange tale you are admitting to.

(By the way, they raised the price to $1499 for the next batch. I wonder why they would be crazy enough to do that?)

No, at 400w at $1999 price point, Avalon does not compete with BFL that is correct, since we are talking about the past here... or are you too stupid to figure that out?  Be that as it may, I suspect they are raising the price to $1499 because it's costing them more than $1299 to manufacture their giant monstrosity of a mining platform and they are losing money or barely making any profit, meaning they will never recoup their development costs.

I also recall someone at BFL stating that they had given 20GH/s extra as compensation for delays. Which amounted to 45 days at the time. Now that you are approaching 90 days, I supposed BFL will do the right thing and overclock yet again to compensate their good (and patient) customers with another 20GH/s. Bringing your total to about 80Gh/s.

Quite possibly, yes.  

Strangely enough it seems every time you bump the specs...new troubles arise.

Heh... yes, it happened once, so that make a trend.  God you are such an idiot.