[Announcement] Avalon ASIC Batch #1 Ships

[PuertoLibre]

See, it's posts like the above that make me think you are literally mentally retarded.  You just start spewing bullshit that has disconnected from anything that was previously posted, it's incredible.  You can't help yourself from either lying or being so misinformed that you are just an idiot.

Lets look at what you've written:

I believe it is just a coincidence that you have stated a dozen or so times that BFL would remain competitive with any competitors offerings.

Then coincidentally raised your specs [50%] from 40 to 60 to meet Avalons 60Gh/s. (at that time)

Purely by Coincidence of course?

Yes, we've stated that, and as I've already pointed out, we raised it because of bASIC, not Avalon.  We did not give a crap about 66 GH/s at $2000.  We did, however, give a crap about 54 GH/s at $1069.  If you can't see the difference and why this is, I can't help you.  Please go back to elementary math.

bASIC remained at 54Gh/s until just recently. In December they took on the initiative to produce a redesign for 72Gh/s before they imploded due to customer concerns and refunds.

Perhaps what you are actually leading me to believe is that BFL does not intentionally compete with certain ASIC companies? A strange admittance coming from you.

Then I suppose you no longer have a competitor and don't need to worry about Avalon raising it's specs up to 66Gh/s. BFL customer will be glad to know they will not have to worry about you "over-competing" with the now defunct ASIC player.

I wonder if this is good news. Or if you are losing your marbles?

Do you actually read what you write?  This is incoherent babbling for the most part, but that's not surprising coming from you.  Especially now that you're in panic mode that your Avalons actually are pieces of shit and they apparently haven't shipped on time, either.  (remains to be seen on the shipping)...  

bASIC did not take the initiative in December with 72 GH/s... we knew it was all bullshit then, which is why I stated we would match a shipping product.  There is simply no way for Tom to have shipped a 72 GH/s product at 120w at 90nm structured ASIC... sorry.  Anyone with any common sense knew this was impossible, except you, but you never had common sense, so it's not surprising.  But you're right, Avalon is not a competitor at 400w for 66 GH/s at $1299 or especially $1499.  Does that mean we won't raise the speed on our units? I  don't know, we haven't decided yet... but if it do it's not because of Avalon heh.

Arrogance is all that I am reading.

Your priorities are interestingly "screwed". Your more worried about Avalons 400w than their GH/s.

Well whatever, if it get your caught with your pants down once the reviews take place, it is none of my concern.

------------

At least give your customer an extra 20Gh/s for their last 45 days of wait time. You did it once on principle, you should do it again.

Strangely enough it seems every time you bump the specs...new troubles arise.

Heh... yes, it happened once, so that make a trend.  God you are such an idiot.

Strange, it almost sounds like you are stating you have only had one respin.

Perhaps you should recount how many wafer batches you have thrown out between each correction to this date as you correct for "issues". Try using your fingers to count the masks, I am sure that will make it easier.

[PuertoLibre]

@ Inaba/Josh

Your "game" is to downplay the issue(s). Also  known as "posturing".

-------

If you can get people to think it is "incoherent babble", then they will agree with you. You can put out any dissenting opinion which controls what kinds of emails and forum messages you'll get from your own customers.

You are not likely here for any other reason than that.

When there is a growing fire, you simply use your feet like a madman to put it out.

<Yes, this is the part where you pretend I don't know what I am talking about.>

------------------

You rarely answer any criticism coherently. Instead you ignore it and engage with various kinds of distractions which will take peoples attentions away from the issue at hand.

In this case you are doing a terrible job by saying you don't consider Avalon a serious competitor. Anyone with money invested in BFL (or possessing common sense) would know you never ignore what another competitor is doing.

So either you aren't terribly bright or your don't know how to do any forms of posturing very effectively.

[PuertoLibre]

For example, Avalon 400watt use.

Try to convince a miner who has a quad or double card GPU set up that he won't be making any money by sucking down 400 watts.

He will readily tell you that the wattage is a smaller issue compared to the megahashes crunching through their rig.

------------------

With ASIC it is true what you say. That Avalons may have a shorter span of useful production.

What you leave out is what that span of time actually is. Some estimates are 2.5 years for an Avalon unit at a specific rate of rising difficulty. A BFL Single SC may become unprofitable in 3 years. So you gain about 6 months...maybe slightly longer.


Why is this true?

Because an Avalon rig may not continue to be profitable once the amount of electricity it costs exceed the level of profit being generated.

The same is true of a BFL Single SC.

------------------

What you rarely point out when you make these arguments is why anyone would keep a rig that long. What are the chances they will remain with the initial customer for that long a period of time?

More importantly, why would a customer continue to operate a machine that is producing almost as much as it is consuming?

The victory in watts is a very small victory.

Only the ones to wise up to this are smart enough to push your balls of smoke out of the way.

[PuertoLibre]

It is the difference between an EOL (End of Life) product that still producing a measly $2.50 per day in 2 or 3 years (from today) versus a unit that will meet the wall of profitability sooner because it consumes more energy. Perhaps 6 months sooner than a BFL device in 2 or 3 years.

----------------

You are like a used car sales man. Your giving facts that suit you and a bonus feature that few would consider that good of a bonus.

In practical (and sensible) applications, no one would keep a 60+Gh/s unit that produces less than 2 dollars a day (2 or 3 years down the road). By then, you will have resold or swapped out to a second or third gen device.

6 months of extra (marginal) mining....some three years down the road is hardly a concern on my mind.

And this is all assuming the Avalon platform doesn't have specific features that change the equation to make it more profitable in different ways. Of which I can only speculate like any other individual.

[Gabi]

Ehi look a BFL guy insulting people

[Tinua]

@PuertoLibre
@Inaba

Is it possible, that you open your own thread to discharge your disput?
It stinks slowly, that you fill up each thread with your fight garbage!
Thanks in advance!

[Tinua]

@ BitSyncom
Since you have time to answer all the really nice questions above;
Maybe you have also the time to answer this?
-How many units have you ship so far
-and how much is the expected daily capacity before the CNY?

Or is it a trade secret?
Thanks for your time.

around 12 a day currently, so total about 40, however I am seriously unsure how many actually made it outside of the country, I'll be giving Jeffs tracking number soon as I get it, during business hours I call the people handling the shipping every 2 hours or so for updates.

We are seriously bottle necked by Customs at the moment ( due to upcoming CNY as well ) and are looking for more routes, it isn't really a trade secret as this is honestly beyond our control at this point. God, I hate sounding like BFL.

Hello BitSyncom

Currently you should send us about 72+ Avalons.
Are there any reasons why:
- No one has been received the tracking/shipping numbers yet ?
- No one has been "shipped" status on their order account ?

Could you please announce the order numbers that you have already shipped at least on every evening?
So we could know the units are on the way and whether it will have chance to be sent out before the CNY.
Please feel free to announce this information through this forum or over your Avalon-website.

I very much appreciate your respond, thank you!
Tinua

@Bitsyncom
Thank you for your comments!
This is real customer service! 

[Frequency]

Still nothing!! ?? Could anyone tell whats going on with shipped units..!!  

[klondike_bar]

@PuertoLibre
@Inaba

Is it possible, that you open your own thread to discharge your dispute?
It stinks slowly, that you fill up each thread with your fight garbage!
Thanks in advance!

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=139088.0

hopefully we can get this thread back on topic (AVALON for those who have seemingly forgotten) and let these guys cockstrut elsewhere

[nathanrees19]

What you leave out is what that span of time actually is. Some estimates are 2.5 years for an Avalon unit at a specific rate of rising difficulty. A BFL Single SC may become unprofitable in 3 years. So you gain about 6 months...maybe slightly longer.

Wow. You think a four (being generous here, could be 6) fold difference in power usage only means a 20% difference in how long it's profitable?

[PuertoLibre]

What you leave out is what that span of time actually is. Some estimates are 2.5 years for an Avalon unit at a specific rate of rising difficulty. A BFL Single SC may become unprofitable in 3 years. So you gain about 6 months...maybe slightly longer.

Wow. You think a four (being generous here, could be 6) fold difference in power usage only means a 20% difference in how long it's profitable?

Are you charged at more than 25cents per KWh?

400w * 24 is roughly 9.6Kwh; @ 25 cents; or about $2.40 per day. (Worst case scenario)

400w * 24 is roughly 9.6Kwh; @ 9.5 cents; or about $0.91  per day. (Best case scenario)

---------------

You were saying, Nathan?

[nathanrees19]

Are you charged at more than 25cents per KWh?

Yes, but I don't think you understand my point...

[PuertoLibre]

Are you charged at more than 25cents per KWh?

Yes, but I don't think you understand my point...

Context is everything.

The point is, it is a few cents of difference between the two rigs. Is it Eco friendly? Certainly not.

I think that BFL is a lot more economical in terms of power use. (assuming they aren't way off like last time)

The reasoning being pushed by BFL's Josh as a "strong point" is pertinent to the 60Gh/s+ devices when they are barely producing anything per day. But by then, it makes little sense to continue running them. (well, at least to me anyway)

What scales of economy are we talking about? A dollar a day. Or about 1/18th of a Bitcoin.

I don't intend to turn it on to earn 2 dollars a day (or 1/9th of a Bitcoin). Perhaps you have a different opinion on that. If that is the scenario we are talking about, then I'd be better off leaving it off and saving the carbon footprint.

[Frequency]

Another ASIC bail out...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=139089.0

Wait, so Tycho's ASIC project bit the dust too? Shit, it means we're only left with BFL and Avalon? Must be some sort of ASICurse afoot. If one more craps up we're gonna have a monopoly.

[PuertoLibre]

That is extremely unfortunate.

[kano]

...
400w * 24 is roughly 9.6Kwh; @ 25 cents; or about $2.40 per day. (Worst case scenario)

400w * 24 is roughly 9.6Kwh; @ 9.5 cents; or about $0.91  per day. (Best case scenario)
...

Actually, the relevance to that is ... what will they make per day.

Yes up front the people who get the first devices will make a lot more, but once ASIC devices are in everyone's hands (who knows when that will be ...), a 60GH/s device in the not too distant future will be roughly the same as an 800MH/s FPGA/GPU now ................. just with over double the entry cost ... and half the BTC return since before the halving ...
Though a price war in the future, if 2 companies release, may lower that up front cost

I'm actually not really sure where these arguments about W are coming from.
It seems pretty straight forward to me.
Hash rate is the first thing that matters early on due to the difficulty ramp up, then long term (after difficulty rises) W will play a big part since everyone will have (very roughly) around the same Hash rate per device cost.
Of course a MUCH higher BTC price will negate that

[-ck]

Of course a MUCH higher BTC price will negate that

You mean would negate that. There is no guarantee it will be higher 

Though I do believe value will continue to rise.

[meowmeowbrowncow]

Are you charged at more than 25cents per KWh?

Yes, but I don't think you understand my point...

At 15 USD/BTC.  .14 USD/kWh.  Cooling accounted as an additional 1/3 of primary kWh usage.


At 1300 TH an Avalon 66 GH model generates roughly half the revenue of a a BFL SC 60 GH model.  The difference being approx. 270 38 USD/mo. (ops)

[camosoul]

To someone that knows it, is it normal for a parcel shipped with a 100$ DHL service or so to take 2 weeks to reach the old continent from China?

Can't get a clue over it.

I just got two orders in from China to two different continents. paid a little more than $100. DHL is the only way to go for speed out of China. FedEx blows, always 2 days behind and they cost more. Took 2 days for one, and 3 days for the other. The only way for Avalon to be taking so long is 1) it doesn't exist and never shipped 2) it's held in customs for inspection.

I called BS on this from the beginning. Check out the company rep's username, you can abbreviate it "BS" cuz they're trolling the fact that they managed this scam...

Avalon never existed. Just trolling the fanboys for their BTC. Grrr, angry at BFL, me go get scammed by fake company instead! Preach for months how great it is when it's obvious that Avalon doesn't even exist.

Tracking number would show any customs delays, almost never happens with DHL anyway... Oh, wait, they haven't given a tracking number...

 

[SysRun]

Has anyone seen 'the bitcoin show' episode with Yifu? I'm watching it now... Lol, remember Bruce? I wonder who he's scamming these days.