Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM.....

[retreat]

Ferrari really has a big potential to get way stronger than this. Just imagine it has reached at least the level it had at the beginning of the previous season. Leclerc was able to fight back against Verstappen in a solid way. But for now Ferrari is dealing with some important issues and this even pushed it behind Mercedes and Aston Martin both. Let's say Ferrari managed to get ahead of both of these teams and even reached Red Bull's level. Then I will still not be confident about anything for Ferrari.

Because this time we will need to see consistency with decent strategies in races. Ferrari was really great in Canada about that but most of the races so far was still a disaster about strategies. Hence I think Ferrari's job is extra difficult compared to Mercedes and Aston Martin.

The most annoying thing about Ferrari is their inconsistency in maintaining their performance. Even Leclerc himself admitted this that their team was inconsistent and this prevented Leclerc and Sainz from improving to catch up with other drivers. If only Ferrari could be consistent like Mercedes did, maybe they wouldn't be under Aston Martin. But I admit that Ferrari's performance in the previous race was very good, which placed the two drivers in positions 4 and 5 and hopefully this performance can be maintained by Ferrari in the next race.

[FanEagle]

Ferrari really has a big potential to get way stronger than this. Just imagine it has reached at least the level it had at the beginning of the previous season. Leclerc was able to fight back against Verstappen in a solid way. But for now Ferrari is dealing with some important issues and this even pushed it behind Mercedes and Aston Martin both. Let's say Ferrari managed to get ahead of both of these teams and even reached Red Bull's level. Then I will still not be confident about anything for Ferrari.

Because this time we will need to see consistency with decent strategies in races. Ferrari was really great in Canada about that but most of the races so far was still a disaster about strategies. Hence I think Ferrari's job is extra difficult compared to Mercedes and Aston Martin.

It has been always obvious that the pit crew and the TP and all that is not the reason why they are not good. Ferrari has a bad race executive at the head of all of this, and I do not mean just formula 1, I mean literally everything else, look at how great they did at le mans 24 after just getting it so many years later, which shows the fact that they can be amazing if they do not get stopped. But because they have a terrible executive, they can't build a good team.

With right management, a good budget, and basically a car engineering squad with a CTO that is beyond what they already had, they could build a car and manage it amazingly. They end up making mistakes after mistakes after mistakes which causes them to lose so much points.

[boltz]

Austria track is normally a quite short one normally but rain can extend lap times quite much for certain. But not even heavy rain can be enough to stop Verstappen from winning this race that easy of course. In the past we were talking about Hamilton's being a wonderful driver under rain.

But now after entering this new era in the sport Verstappen has started to put on a great show thanks to having the fastest car on the grid also. I would love to see Hamilton getting faster in time and reaching the level to be able to compete with Verstappen again. But I guess we will still need to wait for that to happen for a long time.

I am afraid that won't happen.The reason being a simple one,the age difference,no matter how great of a driver Hamilton maybe his time has passed now and I doubt if he can win another Championship even when he will have a Mercedes able to compare with Redbull,I don't see any great personal performance from him with Mercedes and if he is the 7 times World Champion he should surely do a great performance,I am not saying winning the race but to make some nice overtaking that his experience can do.

Having said that I think this season is already over as Perez is the most mediocre driver on the grid for me having the same car as Verstappen and struggling to at least be second,he is far from being second so Verstappen is already Champion this year and we should wait next season to see if any team is able to match Redbull pace,for this season we can already forget about such happenings.

@swogerino I felt that Hamilton could have retired at his peak as the most successful driver but instead he decides to stay back and continued losing his title one that he easily use to win few year’s ago. Furthermore unless Mercedes can fix their issues overnight which we all know won’t happen I doubt that he’ll win and it’s such a shame that after such a legendary career he’s in such a low spot.

Retire as his peak ? You mean when we was clearly robbed of 8th title ? well yes , I'm sure he would have retired after that but instead FIA wanted to screw him over and give Max the title and that meant for Lewis to stay as much as he can in F1 in order to chase victories once again. I don't see him being in a low spot at all , we are still talking about 7 time world champion and on pair with Michael so I don't see this as a low in his career because McLaren of 2010 2011 was awful vs the current Mercedes so yea , he had some bad cars during his career but nothing like that McLaren.

[tokeweed]

Did you guys hear the latest from Red Bull?  Helmut Marko said that they might consider Ricciardo as Perez's replacement if the former looks good at the tire testing after the British GP and if the latter's performance continues to dip. 

It's funny cos the minute RBR got Ricciardo as their reserve driver, anybody who follows F1 would have an inkling that Perez's days are numbered.  Marko never really liked Perez judging from the way he talks about him.  He also said that RBR never intended for Perez to stay this long with the team.  :/

[LTU_btc]

Did you guys hear the latest from Red Bull?  Helmut Marko said that they might consider Ricciardo as Perez's replacement if the former looks good at the tire testing after the British GP and if the latter's performance continues to dip. 

It's funny cos the minute RBR got Ricciardo as their reserve driver, anybody who follows F1 would have an inkling that Perez's days are numbered.  Marko never really liked Perez judging from the way he talks about him.  He also said that RBR never intended for Perez to stay this long with the team.  :/

I think that Perez is getting to much hate recently. Yes, few recent races was terrible for him, but things can't be perfect always. C'mon, remember how he started season that there even was some talk that he can challenge Verstappen for the title. And he is one of reasons why Max got his title in 2021.
As much as I like Ricciardio, I doubt that he can perform much better than Perez.

[emrecemsan]

Alonso has become Mr Consistent for this season. Because as far as I remember he was always on podium except two races so far. Aston Martin's making a big progress in their car created a huge opportunity for Alonso to have a solid season. They drive the same car but Stroll can't perform even close to Alonso's level. I guess even Stroll's father isn't contented with his son's performance so far at all. Stroll is actually not a bad driver in my opinion. He is skilled in fact but he still needs to improve his skills much more.

In fact Stroll has been pleasing his team less and less... Perhaps the brilliance of Fernando Alonso in his first year for Aston Martin is overshadowing his teammate a little, but it is undeniable that the Spanish driver has faced many difficulties in these last few races.
Unfortunately, this difference in performance between the two pilots is already so great that dismissal is already something that is being considered behind the scenes of the team. I think this just hasn't happened yet because of the "simple fact" that he is the son of boss Lawrence, after all... if not even his own father wants him on the team, who else could accept him?

In any case, millions could soon be lost with this poor performance by Stroll if we analyze it from the point of view of investors and sponsors, many of them are certainly also very unhappy to put their names on the car of someone who is often in the last places.

Yeah we don't even know if there would be team on the line to sign Stroll in case of Aston Martin's parting ways with him. But I'm sure that he would have sent from the team already by now if he wasn't Lawrence's son.    Because Aston Martin car has such a potential and Alonso is using up all of it in every race. He is having a wonderful season. But Aston Martin would even fight for constructors' championship with Red Bull if they have a more successful driver right beside Alonso.

Stroll is really causing a serious loss after all of Aston Martin's work to prepare strongly for this season. I wonder if Lawrence changes his mind about his son in case he doesn't improve his performance during the whole season. Maybe he would be the third driver then.

[coinlocket$]

Small rumor for 2024.

This year will be the last year for Alpha Tauri, the following year they will have new "owners" and they will change the name of the team and most likely both drivers too, for a fresh start.

[alegotardo]

Small rumor for 2024.

This year will be the last year for Alpha Tauri, the following year they will have new "owners" and they will change the name of the team and most likely both drivers too, for a fresh start.

Rumor? Quite the opposite...
This information came from RedBull boss Helmut Marko, who told the Austrian newspaper Kleine Zeitung that Alpha Tauri will not only change its name but also its structure in 2024.
Apparently, this decision was due to the death of the brand's co-founder, Dietrich Mateschitz, which occurred in 2022.

AlphaTauri will have two new leaders, Laurent Mekies and Peter Bayer and will have new sponsors. I was curious, however, to know what this new name will be, but I think it hasn't even been defined yet.

Regarding the pilots, it is certain (at first) that Yuki Tsunoda and Nyck DeVries will be maintained, but it is not known until when, as the dissatisfaction with the performance of the Dutch pilot was highlighted.

Let's wait for more details.

[retreat]

-snip-

AlphaTauri will have two new leaders, Laurent Mekies and Peter Bayer and will have new sponsors. I was curious, however, to know what this new name will be, but I think it hasn't even been defined yet.

Regarding the pilots, it is certain (at first) that Yuki Tsunoda and Nyck DeVries will be maintained, but it is not known until when, as the dissatisfaction with the performance of the Dutch pilot was highlighted.

Let's wait for more details.

I hope that AlphaTauri will stay like this, because it's pretty sad to see the AlphaTauri name being replaced by another brand or that Yuki and Nyck are being replaced by other drivers. But of course whatever RedBull's decision for the AlphaTauri team might be for the best, but if they change the brand and the driver it's quite unfortunate. Let's hope for the best for this team.

[FanEagle]

Did you guys hear the latest from Red Bull?  Helmut Marko said that they might consider Ricciardo as Perez's replacement if the former looks good at the tire testing after the British GP and if the latter's performance continues to dip. 

It's funny cos the minute RBR got Ricciardo as their reserve driver, anybody who follows F1 would have an inkling that Perez's days are numbered.  Marko never really liked Perez judging from the way he talks about him.  He also said that RBR never intended for Perez to stay this long with the team.  :/

I feel like that's just way too much and just to make Perez feel the heat and race better. At the end of the day Perez is their second driver and putting Ricciardo back into the seat right now would not give them a better chance, he is there as a reserve driver in case anything happens to anyone but not there because he will take the spot. He will probably leave for another team with a very cheap contract.

Like Haas even wanted him but he was 10+ million and Haas couldn't afford him, as the reserve driver and getting cheap contract, he will accept any offer at any price and will find a seat next season. Red Bull needs a young talent, not Ricciardo, and they know this so they are not going to do it, this is only to make Perez fear and race better.

[coinlocket$]

Rumor? Quite the opposite...

Yeah, it is official now.

BTW, big updates again for Ferrain, new bottom, and new front wing with the hope for a better grip.

[boltz]

Rumor? Quite the opposite...

Yeah, it is official now.

BTW, big updates again for Ferrain, new bottom, and new front wing with the hope for a better grip.

Let's hope this update will bring some stability and some grip like you said because the car is lacking both at the moment. If somehow , this update won't improve the car , I'm afraid Ferrari will fight for 4th place in Constructors Championship and nothing more and as a Ferrari fan, I will be very disappointed with their performance.

[LTU_btc]

Coincidence or no, but after rumours about Perez future in Red Bull, today he become ill and missed media day, but he should be read to drive on Friday. It really might be illness, but it's also possible that he wanted to avoid media and their questions.

Rumor? Quite the opposite...
This information came from RedBull boss Helmut Marko, who told the Austrian newspaper Kleine Zeitung that Alpha Tauri will not only change its name but also its structure in 2024.
Apparently, this decision was due to the death of the brand's co-founder, Dietrich Mateschitz, which occurred in 2022.

AlphaTauri will have two new leaders, Laurent Mekies and Peter Bayer and will have new sponsors. I was curious, however, to know what this new name will be, but I think it hasn't even been defined yet.

Regarding the pilots, it is certain (at first) that Yuki Tsunoda and Nyck DeVries will be maintained, but it is not known until when, as the dissatisfaction with the performance of the Dutch pilot was highlighted.

Let's wait for more details.

From what I read they're not going to sell team, they planning to sell team name for sponsors. Something similar what Sauber is doing with Alfa Romeo. Mateschitz's son is against selling team as his father's vision was competing with 2 times.

[emrecemsan]

Did you guys hear the latest from Red Bull?  Helmut Marko said that they might consider Ricciardo as Perez's replacement if the former looks good at the tire testing after the British GP and if the latter's performance continues to dip. 

It's funny cos the minute RBR got Ricciardo as their reserve driver, anybody who follows F1 would have an inkling that Perez's days are numbered.  Marko never really liked Perez judging from the way he talks about him.  He also said that RBR never intended for Perez to stay this long with the team.  :/

Ricciardo's return would be quite interesting. When he was the second driver of Red Bull once he wasn't driving like that in fact. He was always trying his best to bring the challenge to Verstappen. We have seen really lovely competition between them those times. But this didn't end up well for both sides in the end. I still can't forget how Ricciardo hit Verstappen from behind in Azerbaijan and finished the race for themselves. There was a really high tension between these drivers and this was a strong factor for Ricciardo to leave.

Now it is hard to say if we see the same old Ricciardo here. He wasn't that much competitive in his last times. Let's see if returning to Red Bull would fire him up again.

[coinlocket$]

Let's hope this update will bring some stability and some grip like you said because the car is lacking both at the moment. If somehow , this update won't improve the car , I'm afraid Ferrari will fight for 4th place in Constructors Championship and nothing more and as a Ferrari fan, I will be very disappointed with their performance.

The car has already improved a lot in the last race they did.
They were probably the second team on the track.

If these progress will be confirmed this weekend they can be in top row in the qualify

[emrecemsan]

The qualifying session was quite interesting. Maybe there was no rain but it was still very exciting. Because I couldn't even count how many times the laps of drivers were removed. This was a nightmare session for Perez as well. Because he couldn't even make it to Q3 because of this reason. His lap time was removed a few times due to getting out of track by a slight margin.

Not only him but also many other drivers were out of track limits at the same place. The exit of the last turn turned into a nightmare for those drivers. I didn't understand why Perez wanted to use all the track and push that much in Q2. If he pressed the brake a little more it was still going to be enough for him to make it to Q3. This was completely his fault and Red Bull must be really disappointed with him again.

[swogerino]

Let's hope this update will bring some stability and some grip like you said because the car is lacking both at the moment. If somehow , this update won't improve the car , I'm afraid Ferrari will fight for 4th place in Constructors Championship and nothing more and as a Ferrari fan, I will be very disappointed with their performance.

The car has already improved a lot in the last race they did.
They were probably the second team on the track.

If these progress will be confirmed this weekend they can be in top row in the qualify

Ferrari missed the qualifying just by less than 0.05 seconds,something along those lines as Leclerc came second in a track where last year he even won with a broken clutch as the gearbox could not go more down than third gear,so I am sure he has very bright and fond memories of this track.Now if this will translate in race performance also that would be great but I am a bit hesitant in this,we have to wait and see as how many teams including Mercedes,McLaren and a few others spoke about massive upgrades yet they did not deliver these massive performances in track,yes they were improved but not in the amount they were claiming to have improved.

Leclerc should try to pass Verstappen in the start and then this is a very technical track with a Ferrari performance upgraded he can repeat the victory of last year and also be the first team to win a race beside Redbull during this season so far.

[emrecemsan]

I'm really impressed with Ferrari's performance indeed. Especially Leclerc stated his intention clearly for the race by a very slight time gap like that in the qualifying session. Those changes with front wing and the floor of the car look like very beneficial. I have really missed the rivalry between Leclerc and Verstappen in an Austrian GP. Starting in second place is just the advantage Leclerc needed. Because he will have an opportunity to prevent Verstappen from pulling away early in the race.

Now after this update Ferrari and McLaren both are very quick and I expect the drivers of both teams to have a solid race.

[FanEagle]

Let's hope this update will bring some stability and some grip like you said because the car is lacking both at the moment. If somehow , this update won't improve the car , I'm afraid Ferrari will fight for 4th place in Constructors Championship and nothing more and as a Ferrari fan, I will be very disappointed with their performance.

The car has already improved a lot in the last race they did.
They were probably the second team on the track.

If these progress will be confirmed this weekend they can be in top row in the qualify

I wouldn't say they were second, they were more like between third and fourth just like they have been all year long. I mean First is Red Bull as we have seen all year long, even last year, second I would put Mercedes over Ferrari easily. That means they can be either third or fourth, the reality is that Alonso is far better than Ferraris two drivers so he can still pass them but not sure if that's the car or Alonsos talent that takes him there, looking at Stroll he is nowhere to be found.

So, I would guess that a third place in constructors is a very real possibility of rhyme but that's it. Mercedes is definitely better, specially when you consider the latest races, if they can finish this week that means they are going to be very good for sure.

[coinlocket$]

Pos.   Driver   Nat.   Team   Q1   Q2   Q3
1   Max Verstappen   NED   Oracle Red Bull Racing   1m05.116s   1m04.951s   1m04.391s
2   Charles Leclerc   MON   Scuderia Ferrari   1m05.577s   1m05.087s   1m04.439s
3   Carlos Sainz   ESP   Scuderia Ferrari   1m05.339s   1m04.975s   1m04.581s
4   Lando Norris   GBR   McLaren F1 Team   1m05.617s   1m05.038s   1m04.658s
5   Lewis Hamilton   GBR   Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team   1m05.673s   1m05.188s   1m04.819s
6   Lance Stroll   CAN   Aston Martin Aramco Cognizant Formula One Team   1m05.710s   1m05.121s   1m04.893s
7   Fernando Alonso   ESP   Aston Martin Aramco Cognizant Formula One Team   1m05.655s   1m05.181a   1m04.911s
8   Nico Hulkenberg   GER   MoneyGram Haas F1 Team   1m05.740s   1m05.362s   1m05.090s
9   Pierre Gasly   FRA   BWT Alpine F1 Team   1m05.515s   1m05.308s   1m05.170s
10   Alex Albon   THA   Williams Racing   1m05.673s   1m05.387s   1m05.823s
11   George Russell   GBR   Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team   1m05.686s   1m05.426s   
12   Esteban Ocon   FRA   BWT Alpine F1 Team   1m05.729s   1m05.453s   
13   Oscar Piastri   AUS   McLaren F1 Team   1m05.683s   1m05.605s   
14   Valtteri Bottas   FIN   Alfa Romeo F1 Team Stake   1m05.763s   1m05.680s   
15   Sergio Perez   MEX   Oracle Bull Racing   1m05.177s   2m06.688s   
16   Yuki Tsunoda   JPN   Scuderia AlphaTauri    1m05.784s       
17   Zhou Guanyu   CHN   Alfa Romeo F1 Team Stake   1m05.818s       
18   Logan Sargeant   USA   Williams Racing   1m05.948s       
19   Kevin Magnussen   DEN   MoneyGram Haas F1 Team   1m05.971s       
20   Nyck de Vries   NED   Scuderia AlphaTauri   1m05.974s

Source: https://www.crash.net/f1/results/1030215/1/f1-2023-austrian-grand-prix-full-qualifying-results


What a disaster for Perez, 4th time in a row without top 10 in qualify