Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM.....

[LTU_btc]

The qualifying session was quite interesting. Maybe there was no rain but it was still very exciting. Because I couldn't even count how many times the laps of drivers were removed. This was a nightmare session for Perez as well. Because he couldn't even make it to Q3 because of this reason. His lap time was removed a few times due to getting out of track by a slight margin.

Not only him but also many other drivers were out of track limits at the same place. The exit of the last turn turned into a nightmare for those drivers. I didn't understand why Perez wanted to use all the track and push that much in Q2. If he pressed the brake a little more it was still going to be enough for him to make it to Q3. This was completely his fault and Red Bull must be really disappointed with him again.

Removed lap times was biggest factor in today's qualifying. So many drivers were affected by it. Most unlucky was Perez who didn't even managed to get in Q3 again. Seems that he is really struggling to handle pressure that he got in recent weeks, very difficult time for him. Meanwhile Ferrari looks improved significantly.
Saturday will start with sprint qualifying and sprint race later on same day.

[coinlocket$]

Removed lap times was biggest factor in today's qualifying. So many drivers were affected by it. Most unlucky was Perez who didn't even managed to get in Q3 again. Seems that he is really struggling to handle pressure that he got in recent weeks, very difficult time for him. Meanwhile Ferrari looks improved significantly.
Saturday will start with sprint qualifying and sprint race later on same day.

yeah, many drivers got the same problem but Perez was embarassing.

I mean I get it , you can make a mistake 1 time, even 2 times but not 3 times when you have the live time lap on the steering wheel and you can read that you are in the top position.

[Captain Corporate]

If I am not mistaken Perez missed Q3 four times in a row with this one as well. I think its basically time to just hang it up for him, not in general, maybe he can find another place somewhere else, but for Red Bull period at least. Not that I trust Daniel Ricciardio to be any better neither, they really need someone much better, I do not know who they could get but they really need to get someone much better. Without that new and better racer, they are going to just have Max racing and winning, and nobody else even close. Remember how Bottas was awesome help to Hamilton? Max doesn't have that this season and he needs it urgently to be much better and get the constructors as well. If not, we could see them doing much worse as a team.

[retreat]

Pos.   Driver   Nat.   Team   Q1   Q2   Q3
1   Max Verstappen   NED   Oracle Red Bull Racing   1m05.116s   1m04.951s   1m04.391s
2   Charles Leclerc   MON   Scuderia Ferrari   1m05.577s   1m05.087s   1m04.439s
3   Carlos Sainz   ESP   Scuderia Ferrari   1m05.339s   1m04.975s   1m04.581s
4   Lando Norris   GBR   McLaren F1 Team   1m05.617s   1m05.038s   1m04.658s
5   Lewis Hamilton   GBR   Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team   1m05.673s   1m05.188s   1m04.819s
6   Lance Stroll   CAN   Aston Martin Aramco Cognizant Formula One Team   1m05.710s   1m05.121s   1m04.893s
7   Fernando Alonso   ESP   Aston Martin Aramco Cognizant Formula One Team   1m05.655s   1m05.181a   1m04.911s
8   Nico Hulkenberg   GER   MoneyGram Haas F1 Team   1m05.740s   1m05.362s   1m05.090s
9   Pierre Gasly   FRA   BWT Alpine F1 Team   1m05.515s   1m05.308s   1m05.170s
10   Alex Albon   THA   Williams Racing   1m05.673s   1m05.387s   1m05.823s
11   George Russell   GBR   Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team   1m05.686s   1m05.426s   
12   Esteban Ocon   FRA   BWT Alpine F1 Team   1m05.729s   1m05.453s   
13   Oscar Piastri   AUS   McLaren F1 Team   1m05.683s   1m05.605s   
14   Valtteri Bottas   FIN   Alfa Romeo F1 Team Stake   1m05.763s   1m05.680s   
15   Sergio Perez   MEX   Oracle Bull Racing   1m05.177s   2m06.688s   
16   Yuki Tsunoda   JPN   Scuderia AlphaTauri    1m05.784s       
17   Zhou Guanyu   CHN   Alfa Romeo F1 Team Stake   1m05.818s       
18   Logan Sargeant   USA   Williams Racing   1m05.948s       
19   Kevin Magnussen   DEN   MoneyGram Haas F1 Team   1m05.971s       
20   Nyck de Vries   NED   Scuderia AlphaTauri   1m05.974s

Source: https://www.crash.net/f1/results/1030215/1/f1-2023-austrian-grand-prix-full-qualifying-results


What a disaster for Perez, 4th time in a row without top 10 in qualify 

It seems Ferrari's strategy is now starting to improve and show their seriousness to be able to fight RBR in this competition. It's great to see Lecrec and Sainz not so gloomy anymore and starting to show their competitive streak.
And for Perez it seems he is quite frustrated to see how his team-mates are performing. Even in some of these races he didn't show his best performance which was very unfortunate. Hopefully Perez can get back on track and show the crowd the Mexican way.

[LTU_btc]

It was one of best sprint races that we had in these 3 seasons. A bit of rain, wet track made it very interesting. Well, one thing doesn't changes - Max dominance. But his fight with Perez on first lap was nice to watch. It already looked that it was mistake for Hulkenberg to change on slicks, but in the end, he didn't lost anything, though didn't gained positions too. And that Russel overtake Ocon on finish line and 0.009 gap was cherry on top in this sprint.
No rain is expected on race tomorrow.

[Captain Corporate]

Even though the race itself was fun to anyone who enjoys checking the other places as well (not to people who are too hung up on who wins because Max did it again) I would say it was also a tactical war as well that I enjoyed so much. I think its quite important to enjoy those tactical fights, like deciding on when to put on slicks mattered so much, Russell did it very early on, probably was the first one to do it right? Not sure if he was first or not but he was certainly one of the first, and thanks to that even though he dropped to nearly last places, he managed to end up getting it all back and get into the point zone as well, he finished the race ahead of where he was before he pitted, that shows you that it was a great decision, and to think that this was just 24 laps shows he risky it was. Max did what Max always does, 24 laps in total and yet he managed 21+ second difference in that short span of time, that dude is insane.

[swogerino]

It was one of best sprint races that we had in these 3 seasons. A bit of rain, wet track made it very interesting. Well, one thing doesn't changes - Max dominance. But his fight with Perez on first lap was nice to watch. It already looked that it was mistake for Hulkenberg to change on slicks, but in the end, he didn't lost anything, though didn't gained positions too. And that Russel overtake Ocon on finish line and 0.009 gap was cherry on top in this sprint.
No rain is expected on race tomorrow.

That is bad for our race if we don't have any rain,even just a very light rain just to make drivers drive more cautiously would be great,nevertheless the fact that Perez looks somewhat revived is promising,I guess what Helmut Marko has been saying about him in the media made him wake up and drive the car like he should,after all he still has the best car on the grid and if he cannot beat his team mate he should have no problems beating other cars.

Ferrari lacking again although Sainz being third is a great sign of recovery and it is a validation that the team has been truly upgrading this car,tomorrow I am expecting a lot from Ferrari.

[coinlocket$]

1   Max Verstappen   NED   Oracle Red Bull Racing   24 Laps
2   Sergio Perez   MEX   Oracle Red Bull Racing   + 21.048s
3   Carlos Sainz   ESP   Scuderia Ferrari   + 23.088s
4   Lance Stroll   CAN   Aston Martin Aramco Cognizant Formula One Team   + 29.703s
5   Fernando Alonso   ESP   Aston Martin Aramco Cognizant Formula One Team   + 30.109s
6   Nico Hulkenberg   GER   MoneyGram Haas F1 Team   + 31.297s
7   Esteban Ocon   FRA   BWT Alpine F1 Team   + 36.602s
8   George Russell   GBR   Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team   + 36.611s
9   Lando Norris   GBR   McLaren F1 Team   + 38.608s
10   Lewis Hamilton   GBR   Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team   + 46.375s
11   Oscar Piastri   AUS   McLaren F1 Team   + 49.807s
12   Charles Leclerc   MON   Scuderia Ferrari   + 50.789s
13   Alex Albon   THA   Williams Racing   + 52.848s
14   Kevin Magnussen   DEN   MoneyGram Haas F1 Team   + 56.593s
15   Pierre Gasly   FRA   BWT Alpine F1 Team   + 57.652s
16   Yuki Tsunoda   JPN   Scuderia AlphaTauri    + 64.822s
17   Nyck de Vries   NED   Scuderia AlphaTauri   + 65.617s
18   Logan Sargeant   USA   Williams Racing   + 66.059s
19   Zhou Guanyu   CHN   Alfa Romeo F1 Team Stake   + 70.825s
20   Valtteri Bottas   FIN   Alfa Romeo F1 Team Stake   + 76.435s

Source: https://www.crash.net/f1/results/1030350/1/f1-2023-austrian-grand-prix-sprint-race-results


Absurd, Max got 20 seconds advantage in 20 laps.


But tomorrow will be another story with no rain

[ILuckyGuyI]

Today was really satisfying thanks to some rain. Wet track usually makes races more entertaining for spectators. Austria track was really slippy today after the rain. The start was really challenging for even Verstappen. But his defending was marvelous against Perez. After consolidating his place it was so easy for Verstappen to finish as leader.

Hulkenberg's making use of the chance to overtake Perez also helped Verstappen pull away quickly of course. Because Hulkenberg kept Perez behind for quite a while. I was disappointed with Leclerc today. I thought that he would collect some points. Ocon defended him very well and Leclerc made a mistake which even led to be overtaken by Norris. After that somehow he lost many places during pit stops.

But on a dry track tomorrow I will be expecting a solid performance by Leclerc. I hope we see some rivalry between him and Verstappen.

[dothebeats]

Today was really satisfying thanks to some rain. Wet track usually makes races more entertaining for spectators. Austria track was really slippy today after the rain. The start was really challenging for even Verstappen. But his defending was marvelous against Perez. After consolidating his place it was so easy for Verstappen to finish as leader.

Hulkenberg's making use of the chance to overtake Perez also helped Verstappen pull away quickly of course. Because Hulkenberg kept Perez behind for quite a while. I was disappointed with Leclerc today. I thought that he would collect some points. Ocon defended him very well and Leclerc made a mistake which even led to be overtaken by Norris. After that somehow he lost many places during pit stops.

But on a dry track tomorrow I will be expecting a solid performance by Leclerc. I hope we see some rivalry between him and Verstappen.

I'm slowly losing confidence in Leclerc clawing back in to the points. He's been practically given a lot of opportunities to get back some points on a lot of tracks now but he's still underperforming. It would be best if Ferrari focused more on Sainz instead as this guy is consistently performing every race no matter the track and track conditions, whereas Leclerc blames it on a lot of things. Anyhow, Hulkenberg's defense against Perez was really good to watch. If Hulkenberg can get a seat on a fast car, there's no doubt that he'll consistently get in the top 5. Lots of great defense and offense in F1 today in Austria's wet track and I love it.

[coinlocket$]

Today was really satisfying thanks to some rain. Wet track usually makes races more entertaining for spectators.

Yeah, we were supposed to have better races with these cars but after 1 year of developing, we are in a 2016 situation.

With 1 car was dominating (Mercedes) and the rest of the pack was unable to overtake the other cars.

[boltz]

Today was really satisfying thanks to some rain. Wet track usually makes races more entertaining for spectators.

Yeah, we were supposed to have better races with these cars but after 1 year of developing, we are in a 2016 situation.

With 1 car was dominating (Mercedes) and the rest of the pack was unable to overtake the other cars.

Exactly my feelings as well. I mean , F1 is watchable from after 2nd place because it's clearly that both RedBull and Max are unbeatable no matter what competition tries to do. Also, I do feel bad for Perez but today he really made 2 mistakes and you can feel he is under pressure to perform because Ricciardo seems always ready to jump in his car and take his place.

Tomorrow,  I do expect Perez to have a clean race , bring the car home and try to finish 1-2 with RedBull to please both Helmut and Horner. On the same time, redbull also have a problem called " DeVries" and that might save Perez and trow Ricci in DeVries place. 

[Velvet78]

Verstappen's gap with Perez was really humiliating. Perez actually had a strong start and took the lead. But it didn't took him a long time to lose the lead to Verstappen. Both drivers seemed quite angry at each other at the beginning. I don't expect a big achievement by Perez like finishing on podium in this race.

There is a huge decrease in his performance these days and Ricciardo's probability of taking his place soon is increasing day by day. Ricciardo and Verstappen don't have a good history though but we don't see the same competitive Ricciardo anymore for now.

[FanEagle]

Haas is not talked about enough but after being the bare bottom last team for so many years in a row, they are 7th right now, and Mclaren has brought in some upgrades and unlucky situation made Norris not finish with points which he could have if it wasn't for that turn three situation, but looking at them, they are 6th and 7th very close to each other and both had one driver that was in there. With Hulkenberg actually getting a point out of 4 drivers for that two teams.

I am sensing that they may have cut costs in a lot of areas but they are not doing that for the car, they are constantly improving and may end up with some good results eventually. Alpine should be the aim, it is still quite possible for both Mclaren and Haas to pass them eventually if they are good enough.

[Distraction]

Perez did the thing in the sprint race that he should have done in the qualifying as well. Climbing to podium is going to be a really challenging task for him to perform truthfully. But it would be nice to see many overtakes by him. Plus I think Red Bull might think of doing the same thing they did in Canada for securing the fastest lap point for the team.

If Perez has a wide gap with his nearest opponent in the last moments of the race I'm pretty sure he would pit and go for the fastest lap with softs. Meanwhile I'm wondering how this race will go for Ferrari drivers. Ferrari didn't make any strategical mistake in Canada which helped them have a clean finish compared to the place they started. The same effort will be expected to have a podium finish for both drivers.

[Captain Corporate]

Definitely a dominating result from Max as imagined. However, we have to give credit where credit is due and Perez definitely fought very hard to get where he was. He started 15th, that is as further back as it gets and he ended up getting into the podium place, which is an amazing achievement without a doubt. Max on the other hand, had the pole position for sprint, won the sprint, had the pole position for race, won the race, and had the fastest lap as well, and even though its a joke at this point he had the fastest lap even at practice session as well, this dude won everything that could ever possibly won. However, it has been a "bad" week as his consecutive laps leading record was finished when he pitted, so he had the third longest and won't have the longest for now. That feels like a joke at this point, he is dominating in an unheard level to me, I still think Hamilton wasn't this dominating.

[LTU_btc]

Max dominance was such huge that he won race so comfortable even with extra pit stop that he made for fastest lap. And he was one of few drivers who didn't had problems with track limits. Finally good race for Perez - it was very needed for him.
But that thing with track limits is just ridiculous. There was just few drivers who didn't received black and white flags or penalty. Probably some changes need to be made on turn 10, especially considering that this track is going to stay in F1 until 2030 at least.

[swogerino]

Max dominance was such huge that he won race so comfortable even with extra pit stop that he made for fastest lap. And he was one of few drivers who didn't had problems with track limits. Finally good race for Perez - it was very needed for him.
But that thing with track limits is just ridiculous. There was just few drivers who didn't received black and white flags or penalty. Probably some changes need to be made on turn 10, especially considering that this track is going to stay in F1 until 2030 at least.

That was a real hit on the balls to FIA with that move,he say that I can go and do a pit stop just for fun in the last 3 laps because I feel like it and I want to get the fastest lap done again because I can.This shows that the F1 sport is becoming boring and boring with the passing of time,one race engineer Adrian Newey wherever he has been he has won titles thanks to his knowledge and unfortunately it seems that the competition is not able to keep up with him and his design ideas which have helped Redbull a lot.

Good thing next race is Silverstone where McLaren management has promised a completely new car,we have seen upgrades during the last two races and Norris was 5th today ahead of Aston Martin and Mercedes which shows exactly that McLaren team is working.

[püsür]

Max dominance was such huge that he won race so comfortable even with extra pit stop that he made for fastest lap. And he was one of few drivers who didn't had problems with track limits. Finally good race for Perez - it was very needed for him.
But that thing with track limits is just ridiculous. There was just few drivers who didn't received black and white flags or penalty. Probably some changes need to be made on turn 10, especially considering that this track is going to stay in F1 until 2030 at least.

That was a real hit on the balls to FIA with that move,he say that I can go and do a pit stop just for fun in the last 3 laps because I feel like it and I want to get the fastest lap done again because I can.This shows that the F1 sport is becoming boring and boring with the passing of time,one race engineer Adrian Newey wherever he has been he has won titles thanks to his knowledge and unfortunately it seems that the competition is not able to keep up with him and his design ideas which have helped Redbull a lot.

Good thing next race is Silverstone where McLaren management has promised a completely new car,we have seen upgrades during the last two races and Norris was 5th today ahead of Aston Martin and Mercedes which shows exactly that McLaren team is working.

I agree that F1 getting more and more boring and personally I feel nostalgic about some old times but it is what it is. Yes, no one is happy with such uncompetitiveness, but this is something that is inherent in this sport. F1 is not just about piloting, it is also a competitive arena that includes teamwork, tools and business development performance. You cannot ignore the race in garages and factories. You cannot expect the same performance from teams that sabotage their pilots in the pits at the most critical times, with the team that scores pit times in almost every race without exception. Ferrari was like a redbull in its time, and so was a Mercedes in Hamilton's time. They deserved it and they earned it. We know mercedes and ferrari don't have less opportunities than redbull. On the contrary, it even has many advantages thanks to its corporate structure and competition rules of fia. The problem is misconfiguration, wrong strategies, maybe even wrong pilot choices.

[karabiber]

Max dominance was such huge that he won race so comfortable even with extra pit stop that he made for fastest lap. And he was one of few drivers who didn't had problems with track limits. Finally good race for Perez - it was very needed for him.
But that thing with track limits is just ridiculous. There was just few drivers who didn't received black and white flags or penalty. Probably some changes need to be made on turn 10, especially considering that this track is going to stay in F1 until 2030 at least.

That was a real hit on the balls to FIA with that move,he say that I can go and do a pit stop just for fun in the last 3 laps because I feel like it and I want to get the fastest lap done again because I can.This shows that the F1 sport is becoming boring and boring with the passing of time,one race engineer Adrian Newey wherever he has been he has won titles thanks to his knowledge and unfortunately it seems that the competition is not able to keep up with him and his design ideas which have helped Redbull a lot.

Good thing next race is Silverstone where McLaren management has promised a completely new car,we have seen upgrades during the last two races and Norris was 5th today ahead of Aston Martin and Mercedes which shows exactly that McLaren team is working.

Lando Norris had a strong race with the updated McLaren. He also struggled with Sainz and Hamilton for a long time. I think the young star had one of his best results this year despite seeing the checkered flag in fifth place. The results of the updates made by the McLaren team are starting to emerge. Sainz was kept behind Leclerc for Ferrari's late double pit stop, which left him unable to take full advantage of the virtual safety car period. Had it not been for the strategy error, Ferrari's refusal to allow a change of position and the track limits penalty it was inevitable that the Ferrari team would have achieved a double podium. We watched one of the best races of the season for Ferrari and we're finally starting to see the skills of the drivers. I will look forward to watching the Ferrari team at the British GP.