Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM.....

[coinlocket$]

Not only Honda but also Yamaha completely overslept the development in the area of aerodynamics, all European manufacturers were simply better. In addition, Yamaha also has a weak engine that they never got any further in terms of performance.

And yes, it will be difficult for both of them, although they will benefit greatly from the new concession system and will also be allowed to develop the engine further, but without these concessions they would never make it to the top again.

MotoGP führt neue Concessions ein: Reifen, Tests, Updates, Wildcards

Yeah, it is a different economical-political approach to investments during the covid-19.

For the better of the sport, it will be nice if they come back with big investments.s

[Davian144]

Not only Honda but also Yamaha completely overslept the development in the area of aerodynamics, all European manufacturers were simply better. In addition, Yamaha also has a weak engine that they never got any further in terms of performance.

Lin Jarvis himself, who is still the boss at Yamaha, has also admitted that their current disadvantage is that they have not developed their engines in the last few years, which has resulted in their riders complaining and not being able to unleash their true potential. This is certainly quite crucial for Asian manufacturers such as Honda and Yamaha because these two manufacturers are starting to find it difficult to balance their performance with other European motorbikes.

And yes, it will be difficult for both of them, although they will benefit greatly from the new concession system and will also be allowed to develop the engine further, but without these concessions they would never make it to the top again.

I also think like that, because Honda and Yamaha will really take advantage of this advantage next season in order to be able to compete again with European motorbikes which are generally quite strong at the moment and this is coupled with updates that will continue to be carried out by manufacturers such as Aprilia, Ducati and KTM next season.

[alegotardo]

Not only Honda but also Yamaha completely overslept the development in the area of aerodynamics, all European manufacturers were simply better. In addition, Yamaha also has a weak engine that they never got any further in terms of performance.

Although director Massimo Meregalli states that the performance of the Yamaha engine has met expectations, Quartararo has already admitted that he was not at all impressed and that he expected more from a power unit produced with the help of Luca Marmorini, a famous engineer with experience in Formula 1.

But, who knows, this could change next year, because after hearing these harsh words from Fabio Quartararo about the new engine tested in Misano, Yamaha promises news for the coming weeks with a view to the 2024 season, they say they are preparing two new engine versions for 2024.

Will Yamaha be able to impress this time? I still have my doubts.

[coinlocket$]

Do we already know when the f1 will start with the tests?

We are 3 month away from the start but I can't find any info about them yet

[Koal-84]

Will Yamaha be able to impress this time? I still have my doubts.

So Yamaha have been trying to get more out of the engine for years, once there was a small ray of hope, then there was the valve scandal, after that the air was completely out of the Yamaha engine. Let's see if it is a bit better next season, Yamaha can use more engines thanks to the concession points, so they can take more risks in terms of performance, the inline engine will never be as strong as the V-engine, but it has different characteristics, but Suzuki also had a good and strong inline engine, so there is no excuse for Yamaha.

But Yamaha is not only weak in the engine but also in the aerodynamics. So I don't expect Yamaha to be at the top next season.

[Davian144]

Although director Massimo Meregalli states that the performance of the Yamaha engine has met expectations, Quartararo has already admitted that he was not at all impressed and that he expected more from a power unit produced with the help of Luca Marmorini, a famous engineer with experience in Formula 1.

Everyone will see how Yamaha performs during this season in developing its engine for next season, especially with the help of Luca Marmorini for Yamaha and the other technicians at Yamaha. Because no one will stay at Yamaha for long if the Yamaha manufacturer does not develop well or meet the expectations of its own riders next season.

But, who knows, this could change next year, because after hearing these harsh words from Fabio Quartararo about the new engine tested in Misano, Yamaha promises news for the coming weeks with a view to the 2024 season, they say they are preparing two new engine versions for 2024.

Will Yamaha be able to impress this time? I still have my doubts.

I'm also curious about the new version of Yamaha's engine and the possibility that it will be seen at the Sepang Malaysia test at the beginning of next year, because what Fabio Quartararo tested at the Valencia test was only an engine with small updates which in general is not much different from the 2023 engine. So I will see what Fabio Quartararo comments after testing at Sepang early next year so that Yamaha can live up to better expectations. However, if at that time there were no Yamaha riders who were satisfied with the engine developed so far, I would also doubt Yamaha's performance next season.

[Juggy777]

Do we already know when the f1 will start with the tests?

We are 3 month away from the start but I can't find any info about them yet

@coinlocket$ according to this link the tests begin from 21st Feb and there’s also a change in the time so make sure to see what time it’ll be available in your time zone. Furthermore another thing I see from the link is that the Chinese race is back after a long wait and some minor adjustments have been made to the race schedule and on paper these changes look interesting but in reality we can’t be sure if they’ll actually help increase the competition or not because I’m tired of one way races.

[Koal-84]

Do we already know when the f1 will start with the tests?

We are 3 month away from the start but I can't find any info about them yet

I think there are only 3 test days a year, the last were the tyre tests on 28/11/2013 in Abu Dhabi, here is the German report on the tests.

The first test days next year are already scheduled for 21-23 February 2024 at Sachir.

Formel-1-Wintertests 2024: Übersicht zu Terminen, Strecken und Fahrern

Driving will normally take place in two sessions from 8:00 to 12:15 and again from 13:15 to 17:30 (CET).

[Minor Miner]

Do we already know when the f1 will start with the tests?

We are 3 month away from the start but I can't find any info about them yet

@coinlocket$ according to this link the tests begin from 21st Feb and there’s also a change in the time so make sure to see what time it’ll be available in your time zone. Furthermore another thing I see from the link is that the Chinese race is back after a long wait and some minor adjustments have been made to the race schedule and on paper these changes look interesting but in reality we can’t be sure if they’ll actually help increase the competition or not because I’m tired of one way races.

I don't think these things are actually going to make a lot of changes. At least I do not expect the outcome to be very different. A lot of people are actually tired of one-way races. And to be honest, I don't know if that is going to actually change anytime soon or not. But I am definitely interested to see how it is going to affect the races. And remember the adjustments are not very big. These are some tweaks here and there. So that's why I said that the outcome is probably not going to be very unexpected.

[emrecemsan]

Verstappen made a statement like he saw some weaknesses in the car and they were going to work on them. I don't know how he found a weakness in that car.   

Red Bull had a fully dominant season especially thanks to Verstappen. I can't imagine this car getting much stronger than this. W11 is the fastest car ever in F1 history as far as I know. I assume Red Bull are also working on making an even faster car. Until 2026 season they have time to do so and they don't have any real opponent ahead of them either. Because I don't expect any other team to close the gap much with Red Bull in the meantime.

[moneystery]

Everyone will see how Yamaha performs during this season in developing its engine for next season, especially with the help of Luca Marmorini for Yamaha and the other technicians at Yamaha. Because no one will stay at Yamaha for long if the Yamaha manufacturer does not develop well or meet the expectations of its own riders next season.

with only 3 months left, that will be a short time for yamaha to be able to develop their motorbike. even though they get unrestricted testing and free engine development, other manufacturers like ducati are already several steps ahead compared to yamaha. i don't think the help from luca marmorini was very helpful either, considering that they are specialists in f1 and matching with yamaha engines takes more time.

i bet that yamaha's performance will be bad again in the next season.

[swogerino]

Everyone will see how Yamaha performs during this season in developing its engine for next season, especially with the help of Luca Marmorini for Yamaha and the other technicians at Yamaha. Because no one will stay at Yamaha for long if the Yamaha manufacturer does not develop well or meet the expectations of its own riders next season.

with only 3 months left, that will be a short time for yamaha to be able to develop their motorbike. even though they get unrestricted testing and free engine development, other manufacturers like ducati are already several steps ahead compared to yamaha. i don't think the help from luca marmorini was very helpful either, considering that they are specialists in f1 and matching with yamaha engines takes more time.

i bet that yamaha's performance will be bad again in the next season.

If they don't get a true engineer like Newey is in Formula 1 then it will be very difficult for Yamaha to improve their performance in such a short time remaining.I think they would be doing the right thing if they manage to hire a very successful head lf engineering for their team as I am sure things would improve.Most likely they won't be able to do miracles in such a short time but overall they will make little changes overtime which would result in a big increase in their performance.

[Davian144]

with only 3 months left, that will be a short time for yamaha to be able to develop their motorbike. even though they get unrestricted testing and free engine development, other manufacturers like ducati are already several steps ahead compared to yamaha. i don't think the help from luca marmorini was very helpful either, considering that they are specialists in f1 and matching with yamaha engines takes more time.

i bet that yamaha's performance will be bad again in the next season.

It would be very wrong if you only looked at three months for motorbike development because that is quite a short time to build a motorbike with competition specs in MotoGP. You should also be able to imagine that Luca Marmorini, who is not often seen in the Yamaha paddock, was tasked with building Yamaha engines to make them better.

Although for now everyone can assume that Yamaha will not be competitive again because Ducati is one step ahead, but try to remember back when Ducati was still not competitive and other Asian manufacturers had taken a step forward in the past. Ducati continues to work with good determination and never gives up on what happened to them before becoming competitive.

[Koal-84]

Yamaha definitely has the advantage (like Honda) that engine development is not frozen. But like the most here, I doubt that this will be enough. Honda and Yamaha have the following advantages over Ducati, Aprilia and KTM in category D.


Category D

Test tyres: 260
Private tests: Free not only test drivers
Number of GP tracks: no limit
Wildcards: 6
Engines per season: 9 or 10
Engine development not frozen from the start of season
Aero updates: 2

[coinlocket$]

Ferrari announced a new car for 2024.

It will be not a progression of the 2023 car as usually happens.

It will be a new brand project.

[Iranus]

Ferrari announced a new car for 2024.

It will be not a progression of the 2023 car as usually happens.

It will be a new brand project.

Generally, I am pretty skeptical about how it is going to turn out. Because whenever a new thing is introduced, it generally has a few flaws. But I am pretty sure that they are going to thoroughly test everything. And I hope that they will not cut any corners about the safety of the driver trying to improve and introduce new technology. As always, safety comes first. And I have seen the vehicles get more and more safer for the drivers. But still, work could be done.

[Davian144]

It turns out that the VR46 team is currently experiencing a very big dilemma in making a decision regarding extending the contract with which manufacturer after 2024. Because they also received offers from several other manufacturers such as Yamaha, but they also still have to consider Ducati motorbikes because in general motorbikes Ducati has more energy to use in competition so there is a dilemma on their part when they want to make new decisions after next season.
Source: https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/the-big-dilemma-facing-valentino-rossis-motogp-team-in-2024/10556989/

[Distraction]

Ferrari announced a new car for 2024.

It will be not a progression of the 2023 car as usually happens.

It will be a new brand project.

Unfortunately I can't get hyped about Ferrari's new car so much.    Because this scenario is repeating itself every season. They are always claiming that they have a totally different car this time and they will be much more successful. But after the season starts we have the same old Ferrari as always. They need to do something for real to look convincing for people to believe in them.

I don't know maybe they can start with replacing their strategists with better ones. Because I'm afraid they have really poor strategists now that I say even I can do this job much better than them.

Leclerc's race engineer is just horrible. They can find a better one for him who really has good communication skills and who knows what he is doing. Sainz has a much better race engineer than Leclerc and I think it isn't fair.

[coinlocket$]

Unfortunately I can't get hyped about Ferrari's new car so much.    Because this scenario is repeating itself every season. They are always claiming that they have a totally different car this time and they will be much more successful. But after the season starts we have the same old Ferrari as always. They need to do something for real to look convincing for people to believe in them.

I don't know maybe they can start with replacing their strategists with better ones. Because I'm afraid they have really poor strategists now that I say even I can do this job much better than them.

Leclerc's race engineer is just horrible. They can find a better one for him who really has good communication skills and who knows what he is doing. Sainz has a much better race engineer than Leclerc and I think it isn't fair.

Yep, this is F1.
When a team has a dominating car, they will keep winning utile the FIA changes the rules.
It has been always like that.

I can't remember a single time when a winning team lost the title without a change in the regulations.

[kro55]

It turns out that the VR46 team is currently experiencing a very big dilemma in making a decision regarding extending the contract with which manufacturer after 2024. Because they also received offers from several other manufacturers such as Yamaha, but they also still have to consider Ducati motorbikes because in general motorbikes Ducati has more energy to use in competition so there is a dilemma on their part when they want to make new decisions after next season.
Source: https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/the-big-dilemma-facing-valentino-rossis-motogp-team-in-2024/10556989/

I believe these situations are only going to be regretted by them if they eventually are not able to perform well in the future. And the thing is nobody knows what will happen in the future. So I believe they should really think about it hard and come up with the decision which they feel is the best. Once they make a decision, they will have to try their best to make sure that it is the best decision that they have made. I do not think Ducati is a bad decision, to be honest. But you never know.