[ANN] [ETC] Ethereum Classic: Immutable Smart Contracts

[frostminer]

But this is not the fault of V. Buterin that suddenly a second coin was created, no? This coin should never be created in the first place. Look how it is dropping, the thief is just dumping all his coins on us. He will runaway with $50,000,000 and we will have a worthless coin, correct?

The 'thief' is not stealing, just exploiting a flawed set of rules within TheDao only....The 'second' coin is the fork created to reverse TheDao (and foil the'attack') , changing rules for the better. That will be accepted by the majority of course.

Within ETC, the Dao will be drained of Ether, but after that the original chain will still have value.

"No i didnt steal your car. I just abused the fact that u forgot to lock your garage"

Its abuse no matter how u turn and twist it.

[PGPpfKkx]

But this is not the fault of V. Buterin that suddenly a second coin was created, no? This coin should never be created in the first place. Look how it is dropping, the thief is just dumping all his coins on us. He will runaway with $50,000,000 and we will have a worthless coin, correct?

The 'thief' is not stealing, just exploiting a flawed set of rules within TheDao only....The 'second' coin is the fork created to reverse TheDao (and foil the'attack') , changing rules for the better. That will be accepted by the majority of course.

Within ETC, the Dao will be drained of Ether, but after that the original chain will still have value.

"No i didnt steal your car. I just abused the fact that u forgot to lock your garage"

Its abuse no matter how u turn and twist it.

Have you read the DAO initial announcement about saying the code is the law? Forgetting your car keys is very different that seeing the keys on your unlocked car and saying "yes this is correct, I will leave my car like that".

[bitcoinbox]

You understand that the thief doesn't have access to his funds and cannot dump right? right??  

Do you mind to explain a bit more about that?

[Majormax]

I don't understand why you think the HF chain (Eth) is the legit chain and that his is extra money.
Eth is extra money that emerged from hard forking to bailout their asses in a banker's way. Just the notion of a team controlling which chain is legitimate is wrong.

How can you exist in crypto world without understanding these concepts? Go back to your stock market

The Legit chain is ultimately the one accepted by the majority, and that is probably a long term decision. Most people in Crypto dont really understand it of course, or maybe it's just levels of understanding.

The support for ETC will focus attention on the issue of control, and will be helpful to people's understanding (but it might take some time for the penny to drop)

[PGPpfKkx]

You understand that the thief doesn't have access to his funds and cannot dump right? right??  

Do you mind to explain a bit more about that?

Just read up the thread and see the dates

[Lazarus2016]

Excuse me, maybe I don't understand so I repeat the question.
 
Cannot this be dumped to nothing by VitalikEther followers?

1)   they have balances in ETHClassic and they will dump them
2)  they can mine ETHClassic with their equipment and they will dump.

One thing I don't understand (related to point 1.)..
If V. Buterin had let's say 1 million ETH before HF does it mean he has now 1 million ETH AND 1 million ETC?

exactly

But this is not the fault of V. Buterin that suddenly a second coin was created, no? This coin should never be created in the first place. Look how it is dropping, the thief is just dumping all his coins on us. He will runaway with $50,000,000 and we will have a worthless coin, correct?

I doubt he is already dumping. He is probably not that stupid.

The dumpers are probably people that do not understand what a hard fork means and consider this "free money" that appeared in their polo account.

What do you meran, not so stupid? The price has been dropping a lot, so most likely he already cash out. This coin is own 80% by the thief. Around 10% was still on this fork, correct? The thief stole for $50M when ETH was trading at 0.02 or so. Now ETC has a marketcap of $60M, how much do you really think is not part of the thief? Also most likely the people that didn't swap forgot about their coins in total. so almost all volume that is being created is coming from the thief. Strange that Poloniex added this coin. Really strange.

You understand that the thief doesn't have access to his funds and cannot dump right? right?? 

Then this coin will be worthless, if the thief doesn't have access to the coins now and still need to dump all his coins then the price will drop to 10000sats?

[redsn0w]

[PGPpfKkx]

I don't understand why you think the HF chain (Eth) is the legit chain and that his is extra money.
Eth is extra money that emerged from hard forking to bailout their asses in a banker's way. Just the notion of a team controlling which chain is legitimate is wrong.

How can you exist in crypto world without understanding these concepts? Go back to your stock market

The Legit chain is ultimately the one accepted by the majority, and that is probably a long term decision. Most people in Crypto dont really understand it of course, or maybe it's just levels of understanding.

The support for ETC will focus attention on the issue of control, and will be helpful to people's understanding (but it might take some time for the penny to drop)

I like your input. It's like a theorhetical issue. The majority could be for example a 51% attack on bitcoin. We would call it an attack but is it really? It is just the way it was designed. Same with the theft. Was it a theft really?

So if that was a theft and a 51% is an "attack" then the hard fork majority is a result of extortion. The dev team gave no choice but a directive: Let's vote but we are pro fork and all our wallets are ready so if you don't want to create a mess and you want your money to have value and keep us happy to provide you with software (which is supposedly open source) then you know what to vote.
So about 5% of eth holders voted (which in democracies would null the voting process) and some whales had 25% stake of that vote (apparently from the foundation).

Sorry about ranting all over the thread but I really have strong feelings over this.

[szachta]

Try to rent some rig witch pool and miner i rent?

[Majormax]

So if that was a theft and a 51% is an "attack" then the hard fork majority is a result of extortion. The dev team gave no choice but a directive: Let's vote but we are pro fork and all our wallets are ready so if you don't want to create a mess and you want your money to have value and keep us happy to provide you with software (which is supposedly open source) then you know what to vote.
So about 5% of eth holders voted (which in democracies would null the voting process) and some whales had 25% stake of that vote (apparently from the foundation).

 

All fair...These points need airing.

The reason ETH will probably win out over ETC is the same as one of the obstacles to mass adoption of Crypto. Most laypersons (general population) want to be assured against loss (including from their own stupidity) and have become accustomed to Govt looking after them.  They need a trusted team of 'leaders' to advise them . Open Source works not because the majority can read and vet the code, but because they trust a minority to oversee it.

[_Django05_]

price is skydiving. 
what do you guys think about etc?

[kirilvvbg]

Hm, no one is answering my question about ETH in exchanges, in my case Kraken, but isn't it possible that the exchange(s) can dump my ETH prior the fork (converted into ETC) at the Polo exchange?
I am not that good in crypto, but I found out some strange (at least for me) transactions:
1. My ETH Kraken address according to etherchain.org has only the amount I mined/deposited after the HF;
2. I seems to have 1 (one) transaction 6 days ago (19.07) - to the following address: 0x53d284357ec70cE289D6D64134DfAc8E511c8a3D. The amount is 2144.0360455659216 Ether. For sure I did not have so much ETH at that time. I suppose it is the overall amount of ETH I have deposited in my Kraken account.
3. As you can see, the "recepient" address is empty - with one big transaction (8335689 Ether) to 0x341e790174e3A4D35b65fdC067B6b5634A61caEA. This has do something with fork, but as I said, I am not that good in crypto, I am just an ordinary miner.
4. This second address is empty too. But the balance is difficult the "read and understand", at least for me. Anyway some coins are heading to Poloniex in the last hour.

So, is this all normal?
Beside other things, at the moment my ETH address in etherchain.org shows 50ETH when Kraken shows 325?! And since these 50ETH are from after HF, where are my rest 275ETH?

[PGPpfKkx]

I also wrote this on the subject:

https://medium.com/@arisAlexis/painfully-strict-logic-d0d1cd0a0a27#.7uhws8d6x

[Perryl]

Excuse me, maybe I don't understand so I repeat the question.
 
Cannot this be dumped to nothing by VitalikEther followers?

1)   they have balances in ETHClassic and they will dump them
2)  they can mine ETHClassic with their equipment and they will dump.

One thing I don't understand (related to point 1.)..
If V. Buterin had let's say 1 million ETH before HF does it mean he has now 1 million ETH AND 1 million ETC?

exactly

But this is not the fault of V. Buterin that suddenly a second coin was created, no? This coin should never be created in the first place. Look how it is dropping, the thief is just dumping all his coins on us. He will runaway with $50,000,000 and we will have a worthless coin, correct?

I doubt he is already dumping. He is probably not that stupid.

The dumpers are probably people that do not understand what a hard fork means and consider this "free money" that appeared in their polo account.

What do you meran, not so stupid? The price has been dropping a lot, so most likely he already cash out. This coin is own 80% by the thief. Around 10% was still on this fork, correct? The thief stole for $50M when ETH was trading at 0.02 or so. Now ETC has a marketcap of $60M, how much do you really think is not part of the thief? Also most likely the people that didn't swap forgot about their coins in total. so almost all volume that is being created is coming from the thief. Strange that Poloniex added this coin. Really strange.

Can you explain the math behind your logic here? I'm curious, how does the "thief" now own 80% of ETC?

[ecawyna]

So it's scam or not?
Or this is the original plan of the attacker?

[scorpio18]

Coin miners ETC pool update: i have raised the min payout to 1 ETC thats because on poloniex the minimum amount for deposit is 1 ETC and some miners mine with their poloniex address

[Oldeth]

Coin miners ETC pool update: i have raised the min payout to 1 ETC thats because on poloniex the minimum amount for deposit is 1 ETC and some miners mine with their poloniex address

This is not true , you must have a balance of 1 ETC on poloniex for any transaction to show, not the amount you send must be 1 ETC, if your balance IS +1 ETC on poloniex any amount you send will go through ok , just a fyi

something is also wrong with the pools ethc.coin-miners.info i mined 100mh/s for 6 hours straight , system says 0.23 earned and paid out , it did not arrive , and http://ethc.epool.io/ mined with 70 mh/s for 12+ hours , hardly earned anything and still no payout on pending balance ( its been pending 2 days ) supposed to be once a day payout.

[hiddensphinx]

Quick question: Is there a way to mine ETC without downloading Vitalium blockchain?

[appbox]

ETC QQ Group: 568474359

[ShooterXD]

The hashrate still rising?
Anyone have idea what cause this dump?