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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3008238 times)
Bogart
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September 28, 2013, 04:22:16 PM
 #11421

I worked for 27 years as a software engineer. During that time our company never delivered on or before deadline.

Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hofstadter's_law

I saw about 10 years of software engineering myself.  This certainly always held true for our teams.

"All safe deposit boxes in banks or financial institutions have been sealed... and may only be opened in the presence of an agent of the I.R.S." - President F.D. Roosevelt, 1933
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KS
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September 28, 2013, 04:24:54 PM
 #11422

hello. pls. why is my status on hold? i paid all. Mercuri+upgrade saturn =4204 USD+VAT 792 USD = 4996 USD
..and KNC sent today another mail,..pay mooor VAT 429.60 USD?.. why???
I'm from Slovakia, VAT is 20%, no 30% !

MAIL FROM KNC 7.august.2013
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ....................
Hi David,

We added Slovakian VAT to your orders #3602 and #4900
Please make a payment of 792 USD extra and mark the payment with “VAT for #3602 and #4900”

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Thanks,
Carl
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................

OK, i paid.

MAIL FROM KNC 27. september.2013
.................................................. .................................................. ...................................

Hi,

We have checked your order and we can see that the VAT has not been paid. For your order to be valid we would need you to pay $ 429.60 USD

You can pay the outstanding amount via PayPal to info@kncminer.com and include your order number 3602 as a comment / note so that we can track the payment to your order.

If you cannot pay via PayPal we can also accept a bank transfer to:

Account Name: KNCMINER AB
IBAN: SE1850000000054238202171
BIC: ESSESESS
Bank Name: SEB
Bank Address: SEB, St: Eriksgatan 32, 112 34 STOCKHOLM/SWEDEN
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .........
OMG WTF??!
I sent a few emails/sms..no reply and number +46 8559 253 20 does not work all day!!



Send them a scan of the proof of payment of the 792USD?

(Is this the KnC support thread now?)


“In Putin’s Russia bitcoin exchanges you.” - http://www.coindesk.com/ceo-bitcoin-officially-bans-china/
List of major BTC scams https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576337
Bitstamp "no transfer" banks/countries list: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270716.0
shibelius
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September 28, 2013, 04:26:47 PM
 #11423

hello. pls. why is my status on hold? i paid all. Mercuri+upgrade saturn =4204 USD+VAT 792 USD = 4996 USD
..and KNC sent today another mail,..pay mooor VAT 429.60 USD?.. why???
I'm from Slovakia, VAT is 20%, no 30% !

MAIL FROM KNC 7.august.2013
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ....................
Hi David,

We added Slovakian VAT to your orders #3602 and #4900
Please make a payment of 792 USD extra and mark the payment with “VAT for #3602 and #4900”

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Thanks,
Carl
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................

OK, i paid.

MAIL FROM KNC 27. september.2013
.................................................. .................................................. ...................................

Hi,

We have checked your order and we can see that the VAT has not been paid. For your order to be valid we would need you to pay $ 429.60 USD

You can pay the outstanding amount via PayPal to info@kncminer.com and include your order number 3602 as a comment / note so that we can track the payment to your order.

If you cannot pay via PayPal we can also accept a bank transfer to:

Account Name: KNCMINER AB
IBAN: SE1850000000054238202171
BIC: ESSESESS
Bank Name: SEB
Bank Address: SEB, St: Eriksgatan 32, 112 34 STOCKHOLM/SWEDEN
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .........
OMG WTF??!
I sent a few emails/sms..no reply and number +46 8559 253 20 does not work all day!!



Send them a scan of the proof of payment of the 792USD?

(Is this the KnC support thread now?)


of course
KS
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September 28, 2013, 04:27:31 PM
 #11424

And to add just one more thing. Their original idea was to treat their customers well, so they stay loyal to KNC and would keep coming back and ordering more. Sam said in the interview they wanted to keep their customers, rather than going out looking for new ones all the time.

I'd say about a month ago, this idea was scrapped. They are now only going to pursue new customers. They realised old customers ain't going to make enough back from their miners to reinvest. So it only makes sense to pursue new customers, new markets. Hence China.

They are doing nothing to protect their original investors. Chopping the warranty down to 1 year was a finger to us all.

If they are so passionate about us making a return, they should extend their warranty to regular 2 year consumer warranty. Sam says they sell to the general public, so it should be that anyway. Take some long term responsibility for their products and customers.

I'm pretty sure over two years, everyone can make their money back. 1 year on bitcoin, then 1 year on alts. If we knew our miners would be kept in full working order for 2 years, we'd be properly taken care of.
Doesnt the EU have something with minimum warenties for consumer goods? I know apple got into trouble for it but Im not a lawyer so couldnt speak to it.
http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/ecc/consumer_topics/buying_goods_services_en.htm

Again with that thing.

You "signed" a business contract, you're NOT covered by consumer law. Read your contract (i.e. their T&C), your rights are mostly in there. Anything you don't like: lawsuit.

“In Putin’s Russia bitcoin exchanges you.” - http://www.coindesk.com/ceo-bitcoin-officially-bans-china/
List of major BTC scams https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576337
Bitstamp "no transfer" banks/countries list: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270716.0
The Avenger
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September 28, 2013, 04:27:45 PM
 #11425

And to add just one more thing. Their original idea was to treat their customers well, so they stay loyal to KNC and would keep coming back and ordering more. Sam said in the interview they wanted to keep their customers, rather than going out looking for new ones all the time.

I'd say about a month ago, this idea was scrapped. They are now only going to pursue new customers. They realised old customers ain't going to make enough back from their miners to reinvest. So it only makes sense to pursue new customers, new markets. Hence China.

They are doing nothing to protect their original investors. Chopping the warranty down to 1 year was a finger to us all.

If they are so passionate about us making a return, they should extend their warranty to regular 2 year consumer warranty. Sam says they sell to the general public, so it should be that anyway. Take some long term responsibility for their products and customers.

I'm pretty sure over two years, everyone can make their money back. 1 year on bitcoin, then 1 year on alts. If we knew our miners would be kept in full working order for 2 years, we'd be properly taken care of.
Doesnt the EU have something with minimum warenties for consumer goods? I know apple got into trouble for it but Im not a lawyer so couldnt speak to it.
http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/ecc/consumer_topics/buying_goods_services_en.htm
This has been discussed a lot of times before. KNC terms and conditions say they sell only to businesses. That way, they can offer a limited 1 year warranty rather than the normal 2 year consumer warranty a consumer is entitled to.

I think it's really pissed me off hearing him say "We are selling to the general public, anyone can buy from us" and then their t&c's, written long before this interview, say the exact opposite:
"1.2   The Products are sold for business use only and Purchaser hereby accepts that it has purchased the Products in order to conduct a business."
and
" 6. Limited Warranty
6.1  KnCMiner warrants that the Products, will perform according to the at all times published specification for a period of twelve (12) months from delivery"

"I am not The Avenger"
1AthxGvreWbkmtTXed6EQfjXMXXdSG7dD6
KS
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September 28, 2013, 04:28:31 PM
 #11426

@shibelius: do you mean you sent it already or you will send it?

“In Putin’s Russia bitcoin exchanges you.” - http://www.coindesk.com/ceo-bitcoin-officially-bans-china/
List of major BTC scams https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576337
Bitstamp "no transfer" banks/countries list: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270716.0
Trongersoll
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September 28, 2013, 04:32:01 PM
 #11427

I worked for 27 years as a software engineer. During that time our company never delivered on or before deadline.

Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hofstadter's_law

I saw about 10 years of software engineering myself.  This certainly always held true for our teams.

I was once tasked with coming up with a schedule for a task. I came up with 1500 hours using the tools we were supposed to use to do schedules. One of the hardware guys, who liked to dabble in software, looked at my schedule and claimed he could do it in half the time. I refused to shorten my schedule and was taken off the project. My replacement came up with 1200 hours. When the job was done, it took 1800 hours.
shibelius
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September 28, 2013, 04:41:34 PM
 #11428

@shibelius: do you mean you sent it already or you will send it?

(sorry, I don't know good English) Smiley
I sent it several times. first 7.august.2013. confirmed payment, Status (payed) with Total price: 4,996.80 $.
change status (on hold) only yesterday and new mail of payment moor money.
coda
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September 28, 2013, 04:44:30 PM
 #11429

well,

i never been in the software engineering world, but in my world,
when i pay big money, with delivery time as a main factor of the interest of my investment
for something promised that is not done on time,
i feel normal to be disapointed and ask for some compensations...

for example if i buy a nice big expensive pizza, to be delivered hot for dinner time,
wich comes late and cold to my house, i'm right to not buy anything or to ask a compensation, no ?
the initial job i was paying for is not done
Facts at the end, are not the same as they were in the beginning of the story this is the problem ...
(this happens to me one time, at the end we didn't payed any and eat it cold)

we could excuse the delivery to be late because of a flat tire, the oinions to make the cooker cry, ...
but the service jobs are like that: client pays for something, and if it's not like as he desired
he has right to be pissed off, he payed also for it  !

BTC:18oLLFcxwwzfQt4F2YF7QzKyFeksq3dqsQ
Kuroth
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September 28, 2013, 04:46:28 PM
 #11430

Where are all the FANBOYS now?HuhHuh?

KS
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September 28, 2013, 04:53:33 PM
 #11431

@shibelius: do you mean you sent it already or you will send it?

(sorry, I don't know good English) Smiley
I sent it several times. first 7.august.2013. confirmed payment, Status (payd) with Total price: 4,996.80 $.
change status (on hold) only yesterday and new mail of payment moor money.

Well, it's clearly a mistake on their part. I would contact them directly again AND Bitcoinorama too (since he'll be on location), maybe he can pass them the message. AND call them on Monday, just to be on the safe side.

“In Putin’s Russia bitcoin exchanges you.” - http://www.coindesk.com/ceo-bitcoin-officially-bans-china/
List of major BTC scams https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576337
Bitstamp "no transfer" banks/countries list: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270716.0
Xialla
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September 28, 2013, 04:54:58 PM
 #11432

This has been discussed a lot of times before. KNC terms and conditions say they sell only to businesses. That way, they can offer a limited 1 year warranty rather than the normal 2 year consumer warranty a consumer is entitled to.

I think it's really pissed me off hearing him say "We are selling to the general public, anyone can buy from us" and then their t&c's, written long before this interview, say the exact opposite:
"1.2   The Products are sold for business use only and Purchaser hereby accepts that it has purchased the Products in order to conduct a business."
and
" 6. Limited Warranty
6.1  KnCMiner warrants that the Products, will perform according to the at all times published specification for a period of twelve (12) months from delivery"

yes but business customer have got usually signed contract with section about delivery condition and penalty if goods are not delivered as agreed. (usually discount in % of original price)
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September 28, 2013, 04:57:59 PM
 #11433

well,

i never been in the software engineering world, but in my world,
when i pay big money, with delivery time as a main factor of the interest of my investment
for something promised that is not done on time,
i feel normal to be disapointed and ask for some compensations...

for example if i buy a nice big expensive pizza, to be delivered hot for dinner time,
wich comes late and cold to my house, i'm right to not buy anything or to ask a compensation, no ?
the initial job i was paying for is not done, conditions at the moment, are not the same as in the
beginning of the story... (this happens to me one time, at the end we didn't payed any and eat it cold)

we could excuse the delivery to be late because of a flat tire, the oinions to make the cooker cry, ...
but the service jobs are like that: client pays for something, and if it's not like as he desired
he has right to be pissed off, he payed also for it  !


+1, same here.
btc_uzr
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September 28, 2013, 04:58:52 PM
 #11434

I worked for 27 years as a software engineer. During that time our company never delivered on or before deadline.

Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hofstadter's_law

I saw about 10 years of software engineering myself.  This certainly always held true for our teams.

I was once tasked with coming up with a schedule for a task. I came up with 1500 hours using the tools we were supposed to use to do schedules. One of the hardware guys, who liked to dabble in software, looked at my schedule and claimed he could do it in half the time. I refused to shorten my schedule and was taken off the project. My replacement came up with 1200 hours. When the job was done, it took 1800 hours.

Nobody would complain about a reasonable delay for an ASIC preorder I guess, since it seems to be the nature of this game.

I have experienced development in big scale (>200ppl) and you CAN deliver in time.
It's hard, you need skilled devs and very good managers, then things can work out - but I have to admit the average project is late.

However I could never imagine that some from the management or marketing would ever drop statements like  
'under promise, over delivery'
'margins upon margins upon margin'
as well as claiming all the time 'on track' and then in the very last days becoming silent

Not even in case it's in store, because there's no reason to advertise sth. for ex like a TV with 100hz, when it's actually 133hz (for the same money).

Additionally there's no valuable info in the last update.
Hope you get an idea now why customers are complaining.


Where are all the FANBOYS now?HuhHuh?
yes, indeed weird

!! File Complaints Against KnCMiner NOW !!
..and Thou shalt spread the coin in the name of cryptography for eternity
shibelius
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September 28, 2013, 04:58:59 PM
 #11435

@shibelius: do you mean you sent it already or you will send it?

(sorry, I don't know good English) Smiley
I sent it several times. first 7.august.2013. confirmed payment, Status (payd) with Total price: 4,996.80 $.
change status (on hold) only yesterday and new mail of payment moor money.

Well, it's clearly a mistake on their part. I would contact them directly again AND Bitcoinorama too (since he'll be on location), maybe he can pass them the message. AND call them on Monday, just to be on the safe side.

ok, thank  Sad
KS
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September 28, 2013, 05:05:48 PM
 #11436

Where are all the FANBOYS now?HuhHuh?
yes, indeed weird

In the plane?

“In Putin’s Russia bitcoin exchanges you.” - http://www.coindesk.com/ceo-bitcoin-officially-bans-china/
List of major BTC scams https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576337
Bitstamp "no transfer" banks/countries list: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270716.0
The Avenger
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September 28, 2013, 05:07:49 PM
 #11437

This has been discussed a lot of times before. KNC terms and conditions say they sell only to businesses. That way, they can offer a limited 1 year warranty rather than the normal 2 year consumer warranty a consumer is entitled to.

I think it's really pissed me off hearing him say "We are selling to the general public, anyone can buy from us" and then their t&c's, written long before this interview, say the exact opposite:
"1.2   The Products are sold for business use only and Purchaser hereby accepts that it has purchased the Products in order to conduct a business."
and
" 6. Limited Warranty
6.1  KnCMiner warrants that the Products, will perform according to the at all times published specification for a period of twelve (12) months from delivery"

yes but business customer have got usually signed contract with section about delivery condition and penalty if goods are not delivered as agreed. (usually discount in % of original price)
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HA HA. You obviously live on another planet and haven't read the actual t&c's. You don't have an order with them do you?

8. Delivery Terms

8.1  The Products are delivered EXW (Incoterms 2010) to the delivery address specified by the Purchaser, unless otherwise agreed. The delivery date is provided for information purposes only and shall not be binding on KnCMiner. The Purchaser is not entitled to refuse acceptance of the Products, withdraw, cancel or revoke the order or make claims for compensation due to any delayed delivery.

"I am not The Avenger"
1AthxGvreWbkmtTXed6EQfjXMXXdSG7dD6
Xialla
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September 28, 2013, 05:12:51 PM
 #11438

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HA HA. You obviously live on another planet and haven't read the actual t&c's. You don't have an order with them do you?

8. Delivery Terms

8.1  The Products are delivered EXW (Incoterms 2010) to the delivery address specified by the Purchaser, unless otherwise agreed. The delivery date is provided for information purposes only and shall not be binding on KnCMiner. The Purchaser is not entitled to refuse acceptance of the Products, withdraw, cancel or revoke the order or make claims for compensation due to any delayed delivery.

We see no reason why it cant work like that, the only addition I will add is that the refund will be 100% with the order cancelled, We wont be offering a discount/refund and still shipping you the boxes. Refunds are offered up to the day of shipment of your order.

Above all else we will be fair.
Sam

so Sam is here posting against his own TOS, right?
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September 28, 2013, 05:13:57 PM
 #11439

you missed us yesterday... Yes I changed my flight to the 1st, and Kuroth gets a brownie point. Wanker. I dont kno about the others... orama is supposed to be in sweden... & we are waiting to hear from him...


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Phoenix1969
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September 28, 2013, 05:16:10 PM
 #11440

And to add just one more thing. Their original idea was to treat their customers well, so they stay loyal to KNC and would keep coming back and ordering more. Sam said in the interview they wanted to keep their customers, rather than going out looking for new ones all the time.

I'd say about a month ago, this idea was scrapped. They are now only going to pursue new customers. They realised old customers ain't going to make enough back from their miners to reinvest. So it only makes sense to pursue new customers, new markets. Hence China.

They are doing nothing to protect their original investors. Chopping the warranty down to 1 year was a finger to us all.

If they are so passionate about us making a return, they should extend their warranty to regular 2 year consumer warranty. Sam says they sell to the general public, so it should be that anyway. Take some long term responsibility for their products and customers.

I'm pretty sure over two years, everyone can make their money back. 1 year on bitcoin, then 1 year on alts. If we knew our miners would be kept in full working order for 2 years, we'd be properly taken care of.
It was never more than a year warranty.


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LetItRide
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