Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[shibelius]

@shibelius: do you mean you sent it already or you will send it?

(sorry, I don't know good English)
I sent it several times. first 7.august.2013. confirmed payment, Status (payed) with Total price: 4,996.80 $.
change status (on hold) only yesterday and new mail of payment moor money.

[1713580396]

1713580396

[coda]

well,

i never been in the software engineering world, but in my world,
when i pay big money, with delivery time as a main factor of the interest of my investment
for something promised that is not done on time,
i feel normal to be disapointed and ask for some compensations...

for example if i buy a nice big expensive pizza, to be delivered hot for dinner time,
wich comes late and cold to my house, i'm right to not buy anything or to ask a compensation, no ?
the initial job i was paying for is not done
Facts at the end, are not the same as they were in the beginning of the story this is the problem ...
(this happens to me one time, at the end we didn't payed any and eat it cold)

we could excuse the delivery to be late because of a flat tire, the oinions to make the cooker cry, ...
but the service jobs are like that: client pays for something, and if it's not like as he desired
he has right to be pissed off, he payed also for it  !

[Kuroth]

Where are all the FANBOYS now??

[KS]

@shibelius: do you mean you sent it already or you will send it?

(sorry, I don't know good English)
I sent it several times. first 7.august.2013. confirmed payment, Status (payd) with Total price: 4,996.80 $.
change status (on hold) only yesterday and new mail of payment moor money.

Well, it's clearly a mistake on their part. I would contact them directly again AND Bitcoinorama too (since he'll be on location), maybe he can pass them the message. AND call them on Monday, just to be on the safe side.

[Xialla]

This has been discussed a lot of times before. KNC terms and conditions say they sell only to businesses. That way, they can offer a limited 1 year warranty rather than the normal 2 year consumer warranty a consumer is entitled to.

I think it's really pissed me off hearing him say "We are selling to the general public, anyone can buy from us" and then their t&c's, written long before this interview, say the exact opposite:
"1.2   The Products are sold for business use only and Purchaser hereby accepts that it has purchased the Products in order to conduct a business."
and
" 6. Limited Warranty
6.1  KnCMiner warrants that the Products, will perform according to the at all times published specification for a period of twelve (12) months from delivery"

yes but business customer have got usually signed contract with section about delivery condition and penalty if goods are not delivered as agreed. (usually discount in % of original price)

[Xialla]

well,

i never been in the software engineering world, but in my world,
when i pay big money, with delivery time as a main factor of the interest of my investment
for something promised that is not done on time,
i feel normal to be disapointed and ask for some compensations...

for example if i buy a nice big expensive pizza, to be delivered hot for dinner time,
wich comes late and cold to my house, i'm right to not buy anything or to ask a compensation, no ?
the initial job i was paying for is not done, conditions at the moment, are not the same as in the
beginning of the story... (this happens to me one time, at the end we didn't payed any and eat it cold)

we could excuse the delivery to be late because of a flat tire, the oinions to make the cooker cry, ...
but the service jobs are like that: client pays for something, and if it's not like as he desired
he has right to be pissed off, he payed also for it  !

+1, same here.

[btc_uzr]

I worked for 27 years as a software engineer. During that time our company never delivered on or before deadline.

Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hofstadter's_law

I saw about 10 years of software engineering myself.  This certainly always held true for our teams.

I was once tasked with coming up with a schedule for a task. I came up with 1500 hours using the tools we were supposed to use to do schedules. One of the hardware guys, who liked to dabble in software, looked at my schedule and claimed he could do it in half the time. I refused to shorten my schedule and was taken off the project. My replacement came up with 1200 hours. When the job was done, it took 1800 hours.

Nobody would complain about a reasonable delay for an ASIC preorder I guess, since it seems to be the nature of this game.

I have experienced development in big scale (>200ppl) and you CAN deliver in time.
It's hard, you need skilled devs and very good managers, then things can work out - but I have to admit the average project is late.

However I could never imagine that some from the management or marketing would ever drop statements like  
'under promise, over delivery'
'margins upon margins upon margin'
as well as claiming all the time 'on track' and then in the very last days becoming silent

Not even in case it's in store, because there's no reason to advertise sth. for ex like a TV with 100hz, when it's actually 133hz (for the same money).

Additionally there's no valuable info in the last update.
Hope you get an idea now why customers are complaining.

Where are all the FANBOYS now??

yes, indeed weird

[shibelius]

@shibelius: do you mean you sent it already or you will send it?

(sorry, I don't know good English)
I sent it several times. first 7.august.2013. confirmed payment, Status (payd) with Total price: 4,996.80 $.
change status (on hold) only yesterday and new mail of payment moor money.

Well, it's clearly a mistake on their part. I would contact them directly again AND Bitcoinorama too (since he'll be on location), maybe he can pass them the message. AND call them on Monday, just to be on the safe side.

ok, thank  

[KS]

Where are all the FANBOYS now??

yes, indeed weird

In the plane?

[The Avenger]

This has been discussed a lot of times before. KNC terms and conditions say they sell only to businesses. That way, they can offer a limited 1 year warranty rather than the normal 2 year consumer warranty a consumer is entitled to.

I think it's really pissed me off hearing him say "We are selling to the general public, anyone can buy from us" and then their t&c's, written long before this interview, say the exact opposite:
"1.2   The Products are sold for business use only and Purchaser hereby accepts that it has purchased the Products in order to conduct a business."
and
" 6. Limited Warranty
6.1  KnCMiner warrants that the Products, will perform according to the at all times published specification for a period of twelve (12) months from delivery"

yes but business customer have got usually signed contract with section about delivery condition and penalty if goods are not delivered as agreed. (usually discount in % of original price)

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HA HA. You obviously live on another planet and haven't read the actual t&c's. You don't have an order with them do you?

8. Delivery Terms

8.1  The Products are delivered EXW (Incoterms 2010) to the delivery address specified by the Purchaser, unless otherwise agreed. The delivery date is provided for information purposes only and shall not be binding on KnCMiner. The Purchaser is not entitled to refuse acceptance of the Products, withdraw, cancel or revoke the order or make claims for compensation due to any delayed delivery.

[Xialla]

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HA HA. You obviously live on another planet and haven't read the actual t&c's. You don't have an order with them do you?

8. Delivery Terms

8.1  The Products are delivered EXW (Incoterms 2010) to the delivery address specified by the Purchaser, unless otherwise agreed. The delivery date is provided for information purposes only and shall not be binding on KnCMiner. The Purchaser is not entitled to refuse acceptance of the Products, withdraw, cancel or revoke the order or make claims for compensation due to any delayed delivery.

We see no reason why it cant work like that, the only addition I will add is that the refund will be 100% with the order cancelled, We wont be offering a discount/refund and still shipping you the boxes. Refunds are offered up to the day of shipment of your order.

Above all else we will be fair.
Sam

so Sam is here posting against his own TOS, right?

[Phoenix1969]

Where are all the FANBOYS now??

yes, indeed weird

In the plane?

you missed us yesterday... Yes I changed my flight to the 1st, and Kuroth gets a brownie point. Wanker. I dont kno about the others... orama is supposed to be in sweden... & we are waiting to hear from him...

[Phoenix1969]

And to add just one more thing. Their original idea was to treat their customers well, so they stay loyal to KNC and would keep coming back and ordering more. Sam said in the interview they wanted to keep their customers, rather than going out looking for new ones all the time.

I'd say about a month ago, this idea was scrapped. They are now only going to pursue new customers. They realised old customers ain't going to make enough back from their miners to reinvest. So it only makes sense to pursue new customers, new markets. Hence China.

They are doing nothing to protect their original investors. Chopping the warranty down to 1 year was a finger to us all.

If they are so passionate about us making a return, they should extend their warranty to regular 2 year consumer warranty. Sam says they sell to the general public, so it should be that anyway. Take some long term responsibility for their products and customers.

I'm pretty sure over two years, everyone can make their money back. 1 year on bitcoin, then 1 year on alts. If we knew our miners would be kept in full working order for 2 years, we'd be properly taken care of.

It was never more than a year warranty.

[Kuroth]

Where are all the FANBOYS now??

yes, indeed weird

In the plane?

you missed us yesterday... Yes I changed my flight to the 1st, and Kuroth gets a brownie point. Wanker. I dont kno about the others... orama is supposed to be in sweden... & we are waiting to hear from him...

Hey I was just asking.. And Phoenix I have never actually thought of you as a FANBOY...   But you do look a lot like Josh in your Pic...  

[Phoenix1969]

hello. pls. why is my status on hold? i paid all. Mercuri+upgrade saturn =4204 USD+VAT 792 USD = 4996 USD
..and KNC sent today another mail,..pay mooor VAT 429.60 USD?.. why???
I'm from Slovakia, VAT is 20%, no 30% !

MAIL FROM KNC 7.august.2013
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ....................
Hi David,

We added Slovakian VAT to your orders #3602 and #4900
Please make a payment of 792 USD extra and mark the payment with “VAT for #3602 and #4900”

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Thanks,
Carl
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................

OK, i paid.

MAIL FROM KNC 27. september.2013
.................................................. .................................................. ...................................

Hi,

We have checked your order and we can see that the VAT has not been paid. For your order to be valid we would need you to pay $ 429.60 USD

You can pay the outstanding amount via PayPal to info@kncminer.com and include your order number 3602 as a comment / note so that we can track the payment to your order.

If you cannot pay via PayPal we can also accept a bank transfer to:

Account Name: KNCMINER AB
IBAN: SE1850000000054238202171
BIC: ESSESESS
Bank Name: SEB
Bank Address: SEB, St: Eriksgatan 32, 112 34 STOCKHOLM/SWEDEN
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .........
OMG WTF??!
I sent a few emails/sms..no reply and number +46 8559 253 20 does not work all day!!

Try during daylight monday... lol   I've ALWAYS got an answer, and ALWAYS called during Swedish business hours....   maybe 5x?

[arousedrhino]

I really hope they ship by next week, I would have no problem waiting but after the recent BFL debacle I found out that I only have 120 days to institute a chargeback despite a representstive of my bank that claimed otherwise last November. They told me I had an unlimited period which became 120 days when I filed a claim against BfL. Got the BFL money refunded through PayPal oh the irony!

Anyways I placed the order on June 4th so that means I have to file the chargeback October 1st which means if there is no tracking number on Monday I will ask for a refund and on Tuesday file the chargeback. I really hope they keep their promises. I would have no problem waiting an extra week but the CC policy is going to force my hand and the lack of clear updates is not instilling confidence.

[shibelius]

hello. pls. why is my status on hold? i paid all. Mercuri+upgrade saturn =4204 USD+VAT 792 USD = 4996 USD
..and KNC sent today another mail,..pay mooor VAT 429.60 USD?.. why???
I'm from Slovakia, VAT is 20%, no 30% !

MAIL FROM KNC 7.august.2013
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ....................
Hi David,

We added Slovakian VAT to your orders #3602 and #4900
Please make a payment of 792 USD extra and mark the payment with “VAT for #3602 and #4900”

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Thanks,
Carl
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................

OK, i paid.

MAIL FROM KNC 27. september.2013
.................................................. .................................................. ...................................

Hi,

We have checked your order and we can see that the VAT has not been paid. For your order to be valid we would need you to pay $ 429.60 USD

You can pay the outstanding amount via PayPal to info@kncminer.com and include your order number 3602 as a comment / note so that we can track the payment to your order.

If you cannot pay via PayPal we can also accept a bank transfer to:

Account Name: KNCMINER AB
IBAN: SE1850000000054238202171
BIC: ESSESESS
Bank Name: SEB
Bank Address: SEB, St: Eriksgatan 32, 112 34 STOCKHOLM/SWEDEN
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .........
OMG WTF??!
I sent a few emails/sms..no reply and number +46 8559 253 20 does not work all day!!

Try during daylight monday... lol   I've ALWAYS got an answer, and ALWAYS called during Swedish business hours....   maybe 5x?

ok, thank Eric. 

[Phoenix1969]

Where are all the FANBOYS now??

yes, indeed weird

In the plane?

you missed us yesterday... Yes I changed my flight to the 1st, and Kuroth gets a brownie point. Wanker. I dont kno about the others... orama is supposed to be in sweden... & we are waiting to hear from him...

Hey I was just asking.. And Phoenix I have never actually thought of you as a FANBOY...   But you do look a lot like Josh in your Pic...  

Look like Josh!?    How dare you!!     hahahaha.....   one major difference...  he's a habitual liar... as long as we don't go there, we are good!  I just hope KNC doesn't become a BFL comparison for real, and they are indeed about to ship Monday....  or Me & the Flying Emu Aussie are in a heapin' helpin' of trouble in losses.

[Phoenix1969]

hello. pls. why is my status on hold? i paid all. Mercuri+upgrade saturn =4204 USD+VAT 792 USD = 4996 USD
..and KNC sent today another mail,..pay mooor VAT 429.60 USD?.. why???
I'm from Slovakia, VAT is 20%, no 30% !

MAIL FROM KNC 7.august.2013
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ....................
Hi David,

We added Slovakian VAT to your orders #3602 and #4900
Please make a payment of 792 USD extra and mark the payment with “VAT for #3602 and #4900”

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Thanks,
Carl
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................

OK, i paid.

MAIL FROM KNC 27. september.2013
.................................................. .................................................. ...................................

Hi,

We have checked your order and we can see that the VAT has not been paid. For your order to be valid we would need you to pay $ 429.60 USD

You can pay the outstanding amount via PayPal to info@kncminer.com and include your order number 3602 as a comment / note so that we can track the payment to your order.

If you cannot pay via PayPal we can also accept a bank transfer to:

Account Name: KNCMINER AB
IBAN: SE1850000000054238202171
BIC: ESSESESS
Bank Name: SEB
Bank Address: SEB, St: Eriksgatan 32, 112 34 STOCKHOLM/SWEDEN
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .........
OMG WTF??!
I sent a few emails/sms..no reply and number +46 8559 253 20 does not work all day!!

Try during daylight monday... lol   I've ALWAYS got an answer, and ALWAYS called during Swedish business hours....   maybe 5x?

ok, thank Eric. 

didnt mean to sound like that...sry   just woke up

[btc_uzr]

This has been discussed a lot of times before. KNC terms and conditions say they sell only to businesses. That way, they can offer a limited 1 year warranty rather than the normal 2 year consumer warranty a consumer is entitled to.

I think it's really pissed me off hearing him say "We are selling to the general public, anyone can buy from us" and then their t&c's, written long before this interview, say the exact opposite:
"1.2   The Products are sold for business use only and Purchaser hereby accepts that it has purchased the Products in order to conduct a business."
and
" 6. Limited Warranty
6.1  KnCMiner warrants that the Products, will perform according to the at all times published specification for a period of twelve (12) months from delivery"

yes but business customer have got usually signed contract with section about delivery condition and penalty if goods are not delivered as agreed. (usually discount in % of original price)

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HA HA. You obviously live on another planet and haven't read the actual t&c's. You don't have an order with them do you?

8. Delivery Terms

8.1  The Products are delivered EXW (Incoterms 2010) to the delivery address specified by the Purchaser, unless otherwise agreed. The delivery date is provided for information purposes only and shall not be binding on KnCMiner. The Purchaser is not entitled to refuse acceptance of the Products, withdraw, cancel or revoke the order or make claims for compensation due to any delayed delivery.

  EU customer protection laws are quite good

You can even write in your T&Cs: 'no refund in case your neighbor is a moron'
but it's does not mean anything, because there are laws which break all (invalid) T&Cs

And I guess selling to private persons (w/o VAT-ID) and stating 'business use only' is just another of those terms.

Anyone from Sweden in here?
One consulting session of a Swedish layer should not be too expensive, we might collect some satoshis via escrow in order to get reliable infos regarding this.