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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3008264 times)
Bitcoinorama
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September 26, 2013, 06:43:21 PM
 #11021

Do you seriously think they would have "shipped" (or imported, really) their n°1 salesman for a no-show?

They purposefully withold information, make it slightly vague (or slightly misrepresent it) etc. to create D.R.A.M.A. = free marketing. (that or they're just lame)

To be a salesperson I would have to have to have told or coerced someone to buy something.

I never have.

I have only ever reasoned arguments with valid research and told people to follow through with their own to confirm for themselves. There is nothing underhand there, and there never has been.

Encouraging people to be responsible, perform due diligence, and stay safe with pre-order sales online is common sense.

And for the record yet again, i'm buying my own ticket, as I said I would come for a pick-up in the first place, although this time I'm going to ask them to cover it if they will, especially if I need to stay overnight in a hotel. Stockholm's not cheap and I never agreed to do that.

If there's something worth videoing i'll do my best to insist they allow that, as nothing puts minds at rest more. Whatever happens warts and all, i'll be honest with my account, but this time round there should be a lot more to actually show in moving images than written word.

Peace.

Damn, I thought you might be on a plane to Abbaland now. Have they asked you to go by any specific time yet? I ask because apparently China's having a launch party with a working rig on the 29th in Shanghai...and China is half a day ahead of us giving them a day and a half to get it there? Surely they aren't releasing them there 1st?

I appreciate your reports and time spent passing on information to us too, it was extra info that was useful to a lot of us.
Good luck with the tottie. Smiley

No mate, cannot drop everything on request, for starters I had a dentist appointment, which in all honesty I would rather not have had. I'm typing with half my face tingling as the numbness fades and I can feel the sites of four injections. In any case i'm aiming for Sat, with no return booked just yet. My gut says Mon, as I cannot see anyone (courier) delivering over the weekend unless they already have devices to hand, which is why I was asking for day one pick-up guys that are in easy reach of Stockholm to get in touch with Sam. If that bitbet is going to be won it'd be a crying shame for the kit to be available, but not picked up, even last minute. In any case I won't have a clue until I see what's up. I've been told it's brass monkeys there though.

Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful Smiley BTC Address --->
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September 26, 2013, 06:45:39 PM
 #11022

For anyone interested to know why the thread lost so many pages, I am certainly sure is because Bargraphics deleted more than a thousand posts from his profile:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=124940

Quote
Name: Bargraphics
Posts: 62
Activity: 62
Position: Full Member
Date Registered: May 31, 2013, 08:22:07 PM
Last Active: Today at 06:35:38 PM
Local Time:   September 26, 2013, 02:36:16 PM
Trust: 0: -0 / +0(0)
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September 26, 2013, 06:53:15 PM
 #11023

Well there'll be ROI, just negative (if we are unlucky). You all mean break-even, right?  Wink

No we mean ROI. Negative ROI is no ROI.

Been beat to death, but you are wrong. No ROI is NO return on investment. Either it don't hash, you don't plug it in, or you refund. Negative ROI means it did generate coins, just not as much as it cost (You know, like government "investments"). Breakeven is the beginning of positive ROI. After that your ROI is pure profit.

If you are going to use financial terminology, you should at least know what it means.

This is why they're refusing refunds:

KnC's EZ-Copy pseudo-ASIC isn't going to be competitive against Bitfury, much less HashFast.

Don't take my word for it, look at decentralizedhashing.com's quasi-official chart:



HashFast's Sierra and Baby-Jet are kicking their sorry Swedish ass all over the chart.

They have the top two positions, and positive ROI in all scenarios.

KnC's poor customers are relying on nothing but good luck, a hope and a prayer that difficulty will taper.  That's why KnC is way down on the list, at #14.  


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timmmers
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September 26, 2013, 06:53:33 PM
 #11024

Do you seriously think they would have "shipped" (or imported, really) their n°1 salesman for a no-show?

They purposefully withold information, make it slightly vague (or slightly misrepresent it) etc. to create D.R.A.M.A. = free marketing. (that or they're just lame)

To be a salesperson I would have to have to have told or coerced someone to buy something.

I never have.

I have only ever reasoned arguments with valid research and told people to follow through with their own to confirm for themselves. There is nothing underhand there, and there never has been.

Encouraging people to be responsible, perform due diligence, and stay safe with pre-order sales online is common sense.

And for the record yet again, i'm buying my own ticket, as I said I would come for a pick-up in the first place, although this time I'm going to ask them to cover it if they will, especially if I need to stay overnight in a hotel. Stockholm's not cheap and I never agreed to do that.

If there's something worth videoing i'll do my best to insist they allow that, as nothing puts minds at rest more. Whatever happens warts and all, i'll be honest with my account, but this time round there should be a lot more to actually show in moving images than written word.

Peace.

Damn, I thought you might be on a plane to Abbaland now. Have they asked you to go by any specific time yet? I ask because apparently China's having a launch party with a working rig on the 29th in Shanghai...and China is half a day ahead of us giving them a day and a half to get it there? Surely they aren't releasing them there 1st?

I appreciate your reports and time spent passing on information to us too, it was extra info that was useful to a lot of us.
Good luck with the tottie. Smiley
I was thinking they could indeed launch there first, since they are manufactured there; or am I crazy?

The update about them "seeing millions of components arrive here" a few days ago doesn't match that scenario even if it does make most sense. What components would be arriving in Sweden if they weren't assembled there? Also weren't rigs immediately being set up in their hosting facility in Sweden when finished? They definitely gave the impression they were being assembled in Sweden.

Could be two separate production facilites..and could be a lot more rigs than we imagine if they are separate order books too.
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September 26, 2013, 07:04:11 PM
 #11025

Well there'll be ROI, just negative (if we are unlucky). You all mean break-even, right?  Wink

No we mean ROI. Negative ROI is no ROI.

Been beat to death, but you are wrong. No ROI is NO return on investment. Either it don't hash, you don't plug it in, or you refund. Negative ROI means it did generate coins, just not as much as it cost (You know, like government "investments"). Breakeven is the beginning of positive ROI. After that your ROI is pure profit.

If you are going to use financial terminology, you should at least know what it means.

This is why they're refusing refunds:

KnC's EZ-Copy pseudo-ASIC isn't going to be competitive against Bitfury, much less HashFast.

Don't take my word for it, look at decentralizedhashing.com's quasi-official chart:



HashFast's Sierra and Baby-Jet are kicking their sorry Swedish ass all over the chart.

They have the top two positions, and positive ROI in all scenarios.

KnC's poor customers are relying on nothing but good luck, a hope and a prayer that difficulty will taper.  That's why KnC is way down on the list, at #14.  

You'll note the KnC Product listed is for **December** release. There is a big difference between hashing next week and hashing in December. Please read your materials before posting them.
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September 26, 2013, 07:05:21 PM
 #11026

Don't take my word for it, look at decentralizedhashing.com's quasi-official chart:

HashFast's Sierra and Baby-Jet are kicking their sorry Swedish ass all over the chart.

They have the top two positions, and positive ROI in all scenarios.

KnC's poor customers are relying on nothing but good luck, a hope and a prayer that difficulty will taper.  That's why KnC is way down on the list, at #14.  

Seems to be a misleading chart. 

First, they have "December" shown as the date for KNC products slated to ship in November.
Second, they conspicuously don't even list the ROI for the KNC products slated to ship in October.

What's up with that?
nightengale
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September 26, 2013, 07:12:50 PM
 #11027

Don't take my word for it, look at decentralizedhashing.com's quasi-official chart:

HashFast's Sierra and Baby-Jet are kicking their sorry Swedish ass all over the chart.

They have the top two positions, and positive ROI in all scenarios.

KnC's poor customers are relying on nothing but good luck, a hope and a prayer that difficulty will taper.  That's why KnC is way down on the list, at #14.  

Seems to be a misleading chart.  

First, they have "December" shown as the date for KNC products slated to ship in November.
Second, they conspicuously don't even list the ROI for the KNC products slated to ship in October.

What's up with that?

I think the theory on his chart is that only products that are currently available for order are listed. Since KnC October batches aren't available for order right now, they were pulled from it. I also think he likes to lean towards worst case scenarios when it comes to shipping times, however he does seem more optimistic about some vendors as opposed to others.
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September 26, 2013, 07:13:18 PM
 #11028

For anyone interested to know why the thread lost so many pages, I am certainly sure is because Bargraphics delete more than a thousand posts from his profile:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=124940

Quote
Name: Bargraphics
Posts: 62
Activity: 62
Position: Full Member
Date Registered: May 31, 2013, 08:22:07 PM
Last Active: Today at 06:35:38 PM
Local Time:   September 26, 2013, 02:36:16 PM
Trust: 0: -0 / +0(0)
Nice detective work Augusto! He's probably getting into some scam business endeavour, so he is clearing out his expletive ridden back catalogue so he can appear professional.

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September 26, 2013, 07:17:09 PM
 #11029

For anyone interested to know why the thread lost so many pages, I am certainly sure is because Bargraphics deleted more than a thousand posts from his profile:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=124940

Quote
Name: Bargraphics
Posts: 62
Activity: 62
Position: Full Member
Date Registered: May 31, 2013, 08:22:07 PM
Last Active: Today at 06:35:38 PM
Local Time:   September 26, 2013, 02:36:16 PM
Trust: 0: -0 / +0(0)

clever !

I owe you a beer, I spent all afternoon wondering who deleted all those posts. 


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September 26, 2013, 07:18:05 PM
 #11030

Who still believes that a company that gets chips (done in the fab) less than 2 week before the complete working units should be in customers' hands, can deliver the promise?

Even NVIDIA or Intel couldn't do that!

To be fair, what nVidia and intel produce is infinitely more complicated than a bitcoin asic. I too have my reservations about all those promised deadlines, but comparisons to GPUs and CPu's are simply not valid.

Well, true that but KNC has never tested that specific ASIC - they don't know about the real chip, only simulations.

Sometimes you breadboard a circuit and it works right the first time.  Sometimes no.  I believe they'll be happy with their ASIC's performance in situ.

My mistake, should have used the term in natura not in situ.



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September 26, 2013, 07:20:52 PM
 #11031

And I'm going to take the suggestion of that bright yellow ignore button on icebreaker...
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September 26, 2013, 07:23:15 PM
 #11032

Do you seriously think they would have "shipped" (or imported, really) their n°1 salesman for a no-show?

They purposefully withold information, make it slightly vague (or slightly misrepresent it) etc. to create D.R.A.M.A. = free marketing. (that or they're just lame)

To be a salesperson I would have to have to have told or coerced someone to buy something.

I never have.

I have only ever reasoned arguments with valid research and told people to follow through with their own to confirm for themselves. There is nothing underhand there, and there never has been.

Encouraging people to be responsible, perform due diligence, and stay safe with pre-order sales online is common sense.

And for the record yet again, i'm buying my own ticket, as I said I would come for a pick-up in the first place, although this time I'm going to ask them to cover it if they will, especially if I need to stay overnight in a hotel. Stockholm's not cheap and I never agreed to do that.

If there's something worth videoing i'll do my best to insist they allow that, as nothing puts minds at rest more. Whatever happens warts and all, i'll be honest with my account, but this time round there should be a lot more to actually show in moving images than written word.

Peace.

Damn, I thought you might be on a plane to Abbaland now. Have they asked you to go by any specific time yet? I ask because apparently China's having a launch party with a working rig on the 29th in Shanghai...and China is half a day ahead of us giving them a day and a half to get it there? Surely they aren't releasing them there 1st?

I appreciate your reports and time spent passing on information to us too, it was extra info that was useful to a lot of us.
Good luck with the tottie. Smiley
I was thinking they could indeed launch there first, since they are manufactured there; or am I crazy?

If manufactured and shipped from China would we see a higher probability of customs/homeland delay than if shipped from Sweden?



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The Avenger
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September 26, 2013, 07:23:43 PM
 #11033

Ooh, looks like I could be right:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=301806.0

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September 26, 2013, 07:24:06 PM
 #11034

For anyone interested to know why the thread lost so many pages, I am certainly sure is because Bargraphics delete more than a thousand posts from his profile:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=124940

Quote
Name: Bargraphics
Posts: 62
Activity: 62
Position: Full Member
Date Registered: May 31, 2013, 08:22:07 PM
Last Active: Today at 06:35:38 PM
Local Time:   September 26, 2013, 02:36:16 PM
Trust: 0: -0 / +0(0)
Nice detective work Augusto! He's probably getting into some scam business endeavour, so he is clearing out his expletive ridden back catalogue so he can appear professional.

IDK, but from what I recall, he was heavily invested into Terrahash. Don't know what method he used for paying but anything other than CC and he might be taking a big hit. Feel bad for him.
The Avenger
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September 26, 2013, 07:27:16 PM
 #11035

IDK, but from what I recall, he was heavily invested into Terrahash. Don't know what method he used for paying but anything other than CC and he might be taking a big hit. Feel bad for him.
He was one of very few people on my ignore list, for acting like a dick. He has 11 jupiters on order, so I think he has plenty of cash to splash. The fact he deleted 1000's of posts suggests he is a crook covering his tracks. Happy for him to reply here and set me straight though.

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September 26, 2013, 07:30:33 PM
 #11036

Do you seriously think they would have "shipped" (or imported, really) their n°1 salesman for a no-show?

They purposefully withold information, make it slightly vague (or slightly misrepresent it) etc. to create D.R.A.M.A. = free marketing. (that or they're just lame)

To be a salesperson I would have to have to have told or coerced someone to buy something.

I never have.

I have only ever reasoned arguments with valid research and told people to follow through with their own to confirm for themselves. There is nothing underhand there, and there never has been.

Encouraging people to be responsible, perform due diligence, and stay safe with pre-order sales online is common sense.

And for the record yet again, i'm buying my own ticket, as I said I would come for a pick-up in the first place, although this time I'm going to ask them to cover it if they will, especially if I need to stay overnight in a hotel. Stockholm's not cheap and I never agreed to do that.

If there's something worth videoing i'll do my best to insist they allow that, as nothing puts minds at rest more. Whatever happens warts and all, i'll be honest with my account, but this time round there should be a lot more to actually show in moving images than written word.

Peace.

Damn, I thought you might be on a plane to Abbaland now. Have they asked you to go by any specific time yet? I ask because apparently China's having a launch party with a working rig on the 29th in Shanghai...and China is half a day ahead of us giving them a day and a half to get it there? Surely they aren't releasing them there 1st?

I appreciate your reports and time spent passing on information to us too, it was extra info that was useful to a lot of us.
Good luck with the tottie. Smiley

No mate, cannot drop everything on request, for starters I had a dentist appointment, which in all honesty I would rather not have had. I'm typing with half my face tingling as the numbness fades and I can feel the sites of four injections. In any case i'm aiming for Sat, with no return booked just yet. My gut says Mon, as I cannot see anyone (courier) delivering over the weekend unless they already have devices to hand, which is why I was asking for day one pick-up guys that are in easy reach of Stockholm to get in touch with Sam. If that bitbet is going to be won it'd be a crying shame for the kit to be available, but not picked up, even last minute. In any case I won't have a clue until I see what's up. I've been told it's brass monkeys there though.

I heartell dentistry, e.g. crowns, are so much better priced with quality work if one travels to Asia for the work.  So much so that for multiple crowns it pays for the flight.



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Micky25
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September 26, 2013, 07:36:34 PM
 #11037

Though I still believe in them (man, do I really have to type this words again?), the procedure runs as defined in the ASIC-manufacturers field manual.

We are now at chapter 5: "Put all orders "in production" to close the refund backdoor."

Next will be chapter 6 "Delay, Smoke and Mirrors", chapter 7 "Launch the cool Chip-Gen. 2/3/4 or 150% more hashrate upgrade-offer" and finally chapter 8 "Final Refund -20/-50%: Custom made good!"

I hope not.
plasmoske
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September 26, 2013, 07:37:00 PM
 #11038

I've deleted my posts before. I've had more than 4x current.

Reason? Privacy. I just don't like people to read my history. it's the same on Reddit (deleted after 2 weeks).

No it doesnt make me a scammer Roll Eyes
The Avenger
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September 26, 2013, 07:40:31 PM
 #11039

I've deleted my posts before. I've had more than 4x current.

Reason? Privacy. I just don't like people to read my history. it's the same on Reddit (deleted after 2 weeks).

No it doesnt make me a scammer Roll Eyes
But did you do it a few hours after TerraHash closed their doors and obviously quite a few people think they lost money because of him if you look at the link to the poll I posted a while back?

"I am not The Avenger"
1AthxGvreWbkmtTXed6EQfjXMXXdSG7dD6
augustocroppo
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September 26, 2013, 07:41:52 PM
 #11040

If you are interested in the details which lead Bargraphics to erase his post, start reading from here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=198489.msg3235587#msg3235587

By the way, this is a PM from Bargraphics sent to atomicchaos to justify why he deleted the posts:

Thanks for the "Corrupt Cheerleader Eliminator" badge! Much appreciated, my friend. You didn't think deleting your posts would make them disappear, did you?

What do you mean?

I bought this account today.

Yeah, right...

 Roll Eyes
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