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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3008243 times)
Kuroth
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September 28, 2013, 05:17:55 PM
 #11441

you missed us yesterday... Yes I changed my flight to the 1st, and Kuroth gets a brownie point. Wanker. I dont kno about the others... orama is supposed to be in sweden... & we are waiting to hear from him...

Hey I was just asking.. And Phoenix I have never actually thought of you as a FANBOY...   But you do look a lot like Josh in your Pic...   Grin

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Phoenix1969
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September 28, 2013, 05:18:10 PM
 #11442

hello. pls. why is my status on hold? i paid all. Mercuri+upgrade saturn =4204 USD+VAT 792 USD = 4996 USD
..and KNC sent today another mail,..pay mooor VAT 429.60 USD?.. why???
I'm from Slovakia, VAT is 20%, no 30% !

MAIL FROM KNC 7.august.2013
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ....................
Hi David,

We added Slovakian VAT to your orders #3602 and #4900
Please make a payment of 792 USD extra and mark the payment with “VAT for #3602 and #4900”

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Thanks,
Carl
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................

OK, i paid.

MAIL FROM KNC 27. september.2013
.................................................. .................................................. ...................................

Hi,

We have checked your order and we can see that the VAT has not been paid. For your order to be valid we would need you to pay $ 429.60 USD

You can pay the outstanding amount via PayPal to info@kncminer.com and include your order number 3602 as a comment / note so that we can track the payment to your order.

If you cannot pay via PayPal we can also accept a bank transfer to:

Account Name: KNCMINER AB
IBAN: SE1850000000054238202171
BIC: ESSESESS
Bank Name: SEB
Bank Address: SEB, St: Eriksgatan 32, 112 34 STOCKHOLM/SWEDEN
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .........
OMG WTF??!
I sent a few emails/sms..no reply and number +46 8559 253 20 does not work all day!!


Try during daylight monday... lol   I've ALWAYS got an answer, and ALWAYS called during Swedish business hours....   maybe 5x?


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arousedrhino
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Activity: 347


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September 28, 2013, 05:21:55 PM
 #11443

I really hope they ship by next week, I would have no problem waiting but after the recent BFL debacle I found out that I only have 120 days to institute a chargeback despite a representstive of my bank that claimed otherwise last November. They told me I had an unlimited period which became 120 days when I filed a claim against BfL. Got the BFL money refunded through PayPal oh the irony!

Anyways I placed the order on June 4th so that means I have to file the chargeback October 1st which means if there is no tracking number on Monday I will ask for a refund and on Tuesday file the chargeback. I really hope they keep their promises. I would have no problem waiting an extra week but the CC policy is going to force my hand and the lack of clear updates is not instilling confidence.
shibelius
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September 28, 2013, 05:24:01 PM
 #11444

hello. pls. why is my status on hold? i paid all. Mercuri+upgrade saturn =4204 USD+VAT 792 USD = 4996 USD
..and KNC sent today another mail,..pay mooor VAT 429.60 USD?.. why???
I'm from Slovakia, VAT is 20%, no 30% !

MAIL FROM KNC 7.august.2013
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ....................
Hi David,

We added Slovakian VAT to your orders #3602 and #4900
Please make a payment of 792 USD extra and mark the payment with “VAT for #3602 and #4900”

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Thanks,
Carl
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................

OK, i paid.

MAIL FROM KNC 27. september.2013
.................................................. .................................................. ...................................

Hi,

We have checked your order and we can see that the VAT has not been paid. For your order to be valid we would need you to pay $ 429.60 USD

You can pay the outstanding amount via PayPal to info@kncminer.com and include your order number 3602 as a comment / note so that we can track the payment to your order.

If you cannot pay via PayPal we can also accept a bank transfer to:

Account Name: KNCMINER AB
IBAN: SE1850000000054238202171
BIC: ESSESESS
Bank Name: SEB
Bank Address: SEB, St: Eriksgatan 32, 112 34 STOCKHOLM/SWEDEN
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .........
OMG WTF??!
I sent a few emails/sms..no reply and number +46 8559 253 20 does not work all day!!


Try during daylight monday... lol   I've ALWAYS got an answer, and ALWAYS called during Swedish business hours....   maybe 5x?

ok, thank Eric.  Wink


Phoenix1969
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View Profile
September 28, 2013, 05:26:54 PM
 #11445

you missed us yesterday... Yes I changed my flight to the 1st, and Kuroth gets a brownie point. Wanker. I dont kno about the others... orama is supposed to be in sweden... & we are waiting to hear from him...

Hey I was just asking.. And Phoenix I have never actually thought of you as a FANBOY...   But you do look a lot like Josh in your Pic...   Grin
Look like Josh!?Huh    How dare you!!     hahahaha.....   one major difference...  he's a habitual liar... as long as we don't go there, we are good!  I just hope KNC doesn't become a BFL comparison for real, and they are indeed about to ship Monday....  or Me & the Flying Emu Aussie are in a heapin' helpin' of trouble in losses.


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Phoenix1969
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Activity: 938


LIR DEV


View Profile
September 28, 2013, 05:27:46 PM
 #11446

hello. pls. why is my status on hold? i paid all. Mercuri+upgrade saturn =4204 USD+VAT 792 USD = 4996 USD
..and KNC sent today another mail,..pay mooor VAT 429.60 USD?.. why???
I'm from Slovakia, VAT is 20%, no 30% !

MAIL FROM KNC 7.august.2013
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ....................
Hi David,

We added Slovakian VAT to your orders #3602 and #4900
Please make a payment of 792 USD extra and mark the payment with “VAT for #3602 and #4900”

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Thanks,
Carl
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................

OK, i paid.

MAIL FROM KNC 27. september.2013
.................................................. .................................................. ...................................

Hi,

We have checked your order and we can see that the VAT has not been paid. For your order to be valid we would need you to pay $ 429.60 USD

You can pay the outstanding amount via PayPal to info@kncminer.com and include your order number 3602 as a comment / note so that we can track the payment to your order.

If you cannot pay via PayPal we can also accept a bank transfer to:

Account Name: KNCMINER AB
IBAN: SE1850000000054238202171
BIC: ESSESESS
Bank Name: SEB
Bank Address: SEB, St: Eriksgatan 32, 112 34 STOCKHOLM/SWEDEN
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .........
OMG WTF??!
I sent a few emails/sms..no reply and number +46 8559 253 20 does not work all day!!


Try during daylight monday... lol   I've ALWAYS got an answer, and ALWAYS called during Swedish business hours....   maybe 5x?

ok, thank Eric.  Wink


didnt mean to sound like that...sry   just woke up


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btc_uzr
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let's have some fun


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September 28, 2013, 05:28:12 PM
 #11447

This has been discussed a lot of times before. KNC terms and conditions say they sell only to businesses. That way, they can offer a limited 1 year warranty rather than the normal 2 year consumer warranty a consumer is entitled to.

I think it's really pissed me off hearing him say "We are selling to the general public, anyone can buy from us" and then their t&c's, written long before this interview, say the exact opposite:
"1.2   The Products are sold for business use only and Purchaser hereby accepts that it has purchased the Products in order to conduct a business."
and
" 6. Limited Warranty
6.1  KnCMiner warrants that the Products, will perform according to the at all times published specification for a period of twelve (12) months from delivery"

yes but business customer have got usually signed contract with section about delivery condition and penalty if goods are not delivered as agreed. (usually discount in % of original price)
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HA HA. You obviously live on another planet and haven't read the actual t&c's. You don't have an order with them do you?

8. Delivery Terms

8.1  The Products are delivered EXW (Incoterms 2010) to the delivery address specified by the Purchaser, unless otherwise agreed. The delivery date is provided for information purposes only and shall not be binding on KnCMiner. The Purchaser is not entitled to refuse acceptance of the Products, withdraw, cancel or revoke the order or make claims for compensation due to any delayed delivery.


 Smiley EU customer protection laws are quite good

You can even write in your T&Cs: 'no refund in case your neighbor is a moron'
but it's does not mean anything, because there are laws which break all (invalid) T&Cs

And I guess selling to private persons (w/o VAT-ID) and stating 'business use only' is just another of those terms.

Anyone from Sweden in here?
One consulting session of a Swedish layer should not be too expensive, we might collect some satoshis via escrow in order to get reliable infos regarding this.

!! File Complaints Against KnCMiner NOW !!
..and Thou shalt spread the coin in the name of cryptography for eternity
KS
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September 28, 2013, 05:34:53 PM
 #11448

This has been discussed a lot of times before. KNC terms and conditions say they sell only to businesses. That way, they can offer a limited 1 year warranty rather than the normal 2 year consumer warranty a consumer is entitled to.

I think it's really pissed me off hearing him say "We are selling to the general public, anyone can buy from us" and then their t&c's, written long before this interview, say the exact opposite:
"1.2   The Products are sold for business use only and Purchaser hereby accepts that it has purchased the Products in order to conduct a business."
and
" 6. Limited Warranty
6.1  KnCMiner warrants that the Products, will perform according to the at all times published specification for a period of twelve (12) months from delivery"

yes but business customer have got usually signed contract with section about delivery condition and penalty if goods are not delivered as agreed. (usually discount in % of original price)
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HA HA. You obviously live on another planet and haven't read the actual t&c's. You don't have an order with them do you?

8. Delivery Terms

8.1  The Products are delivered EXW (Incoterms 2010) to the delivery address specified by the Purchaser, unless otherwise agreed. The delivery date is provided for information purposes only and shall not be binding on KnCMiner. The Purchaser is not entitled to refuse acceptance of the Products, withdraw, cancel or revoke the order or make claims for compensation due to any delayed delivery.


 Smiley EU customer protection laws are quite good

You can even write in your T&Cs: 'no refund in case your neighbor is a moron'
but it's does not mean anything, because there are laws which break all (invalid) T&Cs

And I guess selling to private persons (w/o VAT-ID) and stating 'business use only' is just another of those terms.

Anyone from Sweden in here?
One consulting session of a Swedish layer should not be too expensive, we might collect some satoshis via escrow in order to get reliable infos regarding this.

As a business, your rights are more or less like "it should perform reasonably well" and everything else should be "reasonable". Otherwise, you sue. "Reasonably" being very subjective, but "The Purchaser is not entitled to refuse acceptance of the Products, withdraw, cancel or revoke the order or make claims for compensation due to any delayed delivery" is already very borderline (imagine they pulled a BFL?).

“In Putin’s Russia bitcoin exchanges you.” - http://www.coindesk.com/ceo-bitcoin-officially-bans-china/
List of major BTC scams https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576337
Bitstamp "no transfer" banks/countries list: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270716.0
DeathAndTaxes
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Gerald Davis


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September 28, 2013, 05:37:10 PM
 #11449

EU generally has better consumer protection but even in the US "all sales are final" only applies once there is a sale.   A SALE occurs when the product is exchanged for money.  Until that happens there is no sale just a sales order.   BFL (and now KNC) have no legal leg to stand on by taking preorders and not allowing cancellation.  If you ask for a refund and they have already shipped you likely are out of luck.
Phoenix1969
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LIR DEV


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September 28, 2013, 05:38:43 PM
 #11450

EU generally has better consumer protection but even in the US "all sales are final" only applies once there is a sale.   A SALE occurs when the product is exchanged for money.  Until that happens there is no sale just a sales order.   BFL (and now KNC) have no legal leg to stand on by taking preorders and not allowing cancellation.  If you ask for a refund and they have already shipped you likely are out of luck.
The idiot inaba also insists that shipping is no longer delayed, lol


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DeathAndTaxes
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Gerald Davis


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September 28, 2013, 05:40:54 PM
 #11451

As a business, your rights are more or less like "it should perform reasonably well" and everything else should be "reasonable". Otherwise, you sue. "Reasonably" being very subjective, but "The Purchaser is not entitled to refuse acceptance of the Products, withdraw, cancel or revoke the order or make claims for compensation due to any delayed delivery" is already very borderline (imagine they pulled a BFL?).

Exactly the law doesn't recognize such clauses because imagine how easy it would be to scam with the full protection of the law.  Say KNC came out and said sorry due to unexpected delays we will not be shipping before Sept 2039 and due to our T&C you have no recourse.   A sale occurs when the product is shipped and the customer has paid.  Until then there is no sale just a sales order/contracts according to the UCC (which governs both business and consumer interstate sales contracts in the US).  Almost every country has similar provisions for the same reason.

Imagine buying a house and then the contractor says "sorry your house won't be ready for another 382 years and you can't get a refund because we said we aren't responsible for delays.
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September 28, 2013, 05:41:46 PM
 #11452

KNC appears to be doing the best they can, give them credit for that and not their lack of accurate schedule making skills.

Don't you think you drew your conclusion too early? We haven't seen a working miner from them yet.
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September 28, 2013, 05:42:55 PM
 #11453

EU generally has better consumer protection but even in the US "all sales are final" only applies once there is a sale.   A SALE occurs when the product is exchanged for money.  Until that happens there is no sale just a sales order.   BFL (and now KNC) have no legal leg to stand on by taking preorders and not allowing cancellation.  If you ask for a refund and they have already shipped you likely are out of luck.

NOT consumer, business.

That means either you come to an agreement with the seller or you sue. Lawsuit is a time+money pit. That's a pretty major difference.

If you paid via CC, you COULD try to get your money back via your card company, BUT that refund is only an advance and is not final (they could claim it back) since the seller can appeal the charge-back.

“In Putin’s Russia bitcoin exchanges you.” - http://www.coindesk.com/ceo-bitcoin-officially-bans-china/
List of major BTC scams https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576337
Bitstamp "no transfer" banks/countries list: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270716.0
DeathAndTaxes
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September 28, 2013, 05:47:31 PM
 #11454

If you paid via CC, you COULD try to get your money back via your card company, BUT that refund is only an advance and is not final (they could claim it back) since the seller can appeal the charge-back.

Seller can always dispute a chargeback but given
a) seller promised delivery by day x
b) seller has not delivered at the time of chargeback
c) seller promised refunds up to the day of shipment.
c) buyer made good faith effort to make refund and was denied contrary to a,b & c above.

That is about as open and shut as it gets for credit card companies. 

BTW I don't think KNC is a "scam", I think they are working to ship as soon as possible and they likely will ship delayed but still magnitudes more timely than BFL but all that aside you don't accept orders under one set of terms, promise to allow refunds then break that promise and still not ship.   
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September 28, 2013, 05:49:44 PM
 #11455

This has been discussed a lot of times before. KNC terms and conditions say they sell only to businesses. That way, they can offer a limited 1 year warranty rather than the normal 2 year consumer warranty a consumer is entitled to.

I think it's really pissed me off hearing him say "We are selling to the general public, anyone can buy from us" and then their t&c's, written long before this interview, say the exact opposite:
"1.2   The Products are sold for business use only and Purchaser hereby accepts that it has purchased the Products in order to conduct a business."
and
" 6. Limited Warranty
6.1  KnCMiner warrants that the Products, will perform according to the at all times published specification for a period of twelve (12) months from delivery"

yes but business customer have got usually signed contract with section about delivery condition and penalty if goods are not delivered as agreed. (usually discount in % of original price)
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HA HA. You obviously live on another planet and haven't read the actual t&c's. You don't have an order with them do you?

8. Delivery Terms

8.1  The Products are delivered EXW (Incoterms 2010) to the delivery address specified by the Purchaser, unless otherwise agreed. The delivery date is provided for information purposes only and shall not be binding on KnCMiner. The Purchaser is not entitled to refuse acceptance of the Products, withdraw, cancel or revoke the order or make claims for compensation due to any delayed delivery.


 Smiley EU customer protection laws are quite good

You can even write in your T&Cs: 'no refund in case your neighbor is a moron'
but it's does not mean anything, because there are laws which break all (invalid) T&Cs

And I guess selling to private persons (w/o VAT-ID) and stating 'business use only' is just another of those terms.

Anyone from Sweden in here?
One consulting session of a Swedish layer should not be too expensive, we might collect some satoshis via escrow in order to get reliable infos regarding this.

Swedish passport holder reporting in. No, you cannot contract your way out of consumer laws by pretending the sale is for business only while accepting orders without VAT or other supporting evidence of business operations. I was a bit unsure myself, so I contacted our office for consumer rights in Sweden and they confirmed it for me. However, this sadly does not concern me as I did buy thru my workplace.

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September 28, 2013, 05:52:25 PM
 #11456

This has been discussed a lot of times before. KNC terms and conditions say they sell only to businesses. That way, they can offer a limited 1 year warranty rather than the normal 2 year consumer warranty a consumer is entitled to.

I think it's really pissed me off hearing him say "We are selling to the general public, anyone can buy from us" and then their t&c's, written long before this interview, say the exact opposite:
"1.2   The Products are sold for business use only and Purchaser hereby accepts that it has purchased the Products in order to conduct a business."
and
" 6. Limited Warranty
6.1  KnCMiner warrants that the Products, will perform according to the at all times published specification for a period of twelve (12) months from delivery"

yes but business customer have got usually signed contract with section about delivery condition and penalty if goods are not delivered as agreed. (usually discount in % of original price)
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HA HA. You obviously live on another planet and haven't read the actual t&c's. You don't have an order with them do you?

8. Delivery Terms

8.1  The Products are delivered EXW (Incoterms 2010) to the delivery address specified by the Purchaser, unless otherwise agreed. The delivery date is provided for information purposes only and shall not be binding on KnCMiner. The Purchaser is not entitled to refuse acceptance of the Products, withdraw, cancel or revoke the order or make claims for compensation due to any delayed delivery.


 Smiley EU customer protection laws are quite good

You can even write in your T&Cs: 'no refund in case your neighbor is a moron'
but it's does not mean anything, because there are laws which break all (invalid) T&Cs

And I guess selling to private persons (w/o VAT-ID) and stating 'business use only' is just another of those terms.

Anyone from Sweden in here?
One consulting session of a Swedish layer should not be too expensive, we might collect some satoshis via escrow in order to get reliable infos regarding this.

Swedish passport holder reporting in. No, you cannot contract your way out of consumer laws by pretending the sale is for business only while accepting orders without VAT or other supporting evidence of business operations. I was a bit unsure myself, so I contacted our office for consumer rights in Sweden and they confirmed it for me. However, this sadly does not concern me as I did buy thru my workplace.


And it's the contrary in Belgium. You accepted a business contract as a business, therefore you are considered a business (even though you're not).

“In Putin’s Russia bitcoin exchanges you.” - http://www.coindesk.com/ceo-bitcoin-officially-bans-china/
List of major BTC scams https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576337
Bitstamp "no transfer" banks/countries list: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270716.0
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September 28, 2013, 05:54:58 PM
 #11457


Seller can always dispute a chargeback but given
a) seller promised delivery by day x
b) seller has not delivered at the time of chargeback
c) seller promised refunds up to the day of shipment.
c) buyer made good faith effort to make refund and was denied contrary to a,b & c above.

That is about as open and shut as it gets for credit card companies.  
 

I was not making it a specific case like you, but yes, the case you describe would be very hard to dispute for the seller. But it also depends on the T&Cs.

edit: you could have partial refunds, pro-rata, time-dependent refunds, whatnot.

“In Putin’s Russia bitcoin exchanges you.” - http://www.coindesk.com/ceo-bitcoin-officially-bans-china/
List of major BTC scams https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576337
Bitstamp "no transfer" banks/countries list: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270716.0
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September 28, 2013, 05:59:56 PM
 #11458

This has been discussed a lot of times before. KNC terms and conditions say they sell only to businesses. That way, they can offer a limited 1 year warranty rather than the normal 2 year consumer warranty a consumer is entitled to.

I think it's really pissed me off hearing him say "We are selling to the general public, anyone can buy from us" and then their t&c's, written long before this interview, say the exact opposite:
"1.2   The Products are sold for business use only and Purchaser hereby accepts that it has purchased the Products in order to conduct a business."
and
" 6. Limited Warranty
6.1  KnCMiner warrants that the Products, will perform according to the at all times published specification for a period of twelve (12) months from delivery"

yes but business customer have got usually signed contract with section about delivery condition and penalty if goods are not delivered as agreed. (usually discount in % of original price)
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HA HA. You obviously live on another planet and haven't read the actual t&c's. You don't have an order with them do you?

8. Delivery Terms

8.1  The Products are delivered EXW (Incoterms 2010) to the delivery address specified by the Purchaser, unless otherwise agreed. The delivery date is provided for information purposes only and shall not be binding on KnCMiner. The Purchaser is not entitled to refuse acceptance of the Products, withdraw, cancel or revoke the order or make claims for compensation due to any delayed delivery.


 Smiley EU customer protection laws are quite good

You can even write in your T&Cs: 'no refund in case your neighbor is a moron'
but it's does not mean anything, because there are laws which break all (invalid) T&Cs

And I guess selling to private persons (w/o VAT-ID) and stating 'business use only' is just another of those terms.

Anyone from Sweden in here?
One consulting session of a Swedish layer should not be too expensive, we might collect some satoshis via escrow in order to get reliable infos regarding this.

Swedish passport holder reporting in. No, you cannot contract your way out of consumer laws by pretending the sale is for business only while accepting orders without VAT or other supporting evidence of business operations. I was a bit unsure myself, so I contacted our office for consumer rights in Sweden and they confirmed it for me. However, this sadly does not concern me as I did buy thru my workplace.


And it's the contrary in Belgium. You accepted a business contract as a business, therefore you are considered a business (even though you're not).

Thankfully they have to follow Swedish law. If all else fails, you can always do "the classic" and have a 16> year old sign/click the contract as they by law are unable to enter such in Sweden, a small headache for online shops.
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Crypterium - Digital Mobile Cryptobank For Everyon


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September 28, 2013, 06:02:21 PM
 #11459

I had been running 4 or 5 machines donating computer time to Folding@Home for years.  Using only CPUs it was a lot of energy.  This was for team Soyrunner.  I quit when another distributed computing effort at a California university that in conjunction with a southeastern university developed a deactivation for herpes virus(es).  Not just herpes but a whole slew of similar viruses, this with a small molecular dimer that would block the clamshell trigger.  It should cure and/or prevent a whole class of cancers and autoimmune diseases.  Then a cousin's grandson, a teen, died of gaseous gangrene most likely as a result of a herpes infection.  The dimer discovery was a couple of years old at the time, about the time the Germans developed a molecular attachment for insulin that would increase its size and prevent insulin from passing from the system as quickly so much less insulin would be needed and less often.  That balloon molecule would probably work for the small molecule dimer that blocks the herpes clamshell.  So I quit FAH.  Sure, maybe it wasn't their distributed computing that contributed to the finding of that small molecule dimer but heck, the small molecule dimer still today hasn't made the news as being medically available.  You'd think they'd have a crash program to get it out there and available since it cures and/or prevents many cancers and autoimmune diseases.  So, I have some years with distributed computing spending money I really could have used much more effectively.  

Right now, looking at my Bitcoin miner expenditures and what I've mined, the whole Bitcoin adventure might end up costing me a lot more than I spent on distributed computing for FAH.  I have hopes the Mercury will be profitable.



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KS
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September 28, 2013, 06:17:45 PM
 #11460

Thankfully they have to follow Swedish law. (...)

Amen to that (I guess Tongue ).

“In Putin’s Russia bitcoin exchanges you.” - http://www.coindesk.com/ceo-bitcoin-officially-bans-china/
List of major BTC scams https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576337
Bitstamp "no transfer" banks/countries list: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=270716.0
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