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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3007658 times)
frankenmint
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September 30, 2013, 09:41:32 AM
 #11781

here is how we can still win the bitbet  - Take out your jupiter at the airport or even there on site at knc...have it hashing with a cpu monitor and a screenshot of your worker dashboard that shows your a different address/pool I think we only need 5 confirmed units hashing and even if they are at the stockholm airport on the way back home...it would count wouldnt it?  Needs 5 different local pickups to be able to do this...but thats a huge if and only if they get units up and hashing today!!!!!!!

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arlekyn13
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September 30, 2013, 09:44:07 AM
 #11782

here is how we can still win the bitbet  - Take out your jupiter at the airport or even there on site at knc...have it hashing with a cpu monitor and a screenshot of your worker dashboard that shows your a different address/pool I think we only need 5 confirmed units hashing and even if they are at the stockholm airport on the way back home...it would count wouldnt it?  Needs 5 different local pickups to be able to do this...but thats a huge if and only if they get units up and hashing today!!!!!!!

Am I the only one checking each IP that reported a found block to see if it's a Swedish IP? Keep an eye there, tests are on-going as we speak Smiley

1CmrswU7JYpi9WNC8EHWCV3aam1FJsW2Zu - to show appreciation for my work
btc_uzr
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September 30, 2013, 09:47:12 AM
 #11783

here is how we can still win the bitbet  - Take out your jupiter at the airport or even there on site at knc...have it hashing with a cpu monitor and a screenshot of your worker dashboard that shows your a different address/pool I think we only need 5 confirmed units hashing and even if they are at the stockholm airport on the way back home...it would count wouldnt it?  Needs 5 different local pickups to be able to do this...but thats a huge if and only if they get units up and hashing today!!!!!!!

I would not expect units ready for pickup today.
Image your day1 unit is a pickup and you read 'boxes are ready now, pick them up!' while sitting 100's if not 1000's KM away in front of your screen.

!! File Complaints Against KnCMiner NOW !!
..and Thou shalt spread the coin in the name of cryptography for eternity
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September 30, 2013, 09:48:38 AM
 #11784

It is going to take JUST ONE company to release a profitable (clearly) miner to upend the whole market. And that, will be messy but much needed.

It cant happen. If Hashfast/cointerra/whomever slash their prices to the point where its "clearly profitable", all that will result in is more orders than they could possibly deliver. Or if they somehow could deliver, even at those prices it would turn out to be no longer profitable because difficulty would shoot through the roof.

Anything can happen. It takes one company that can meet demand or at least put out enough to make things fair. Obviously if you are selling money printing machines you are going to need to set limits.
To get the network more secure, it would be nice to allow more people access, instead of just selling to big pocketed people.

Anything is possible, just need to have an open mind...

BTC = Black Swan.
BTC = Antifragile - "Some things benefit from shocks; they thrive and grow when exposed to volatility, randomness, disorder, and stressors and love adventure, risk, and uncertainty. Robust is not the opposite of fragile.
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September 30, 2013, 09:54:09 AM
 #11785

It is going to take JUST ONE company to release a profitable (clearly) miner to upend the whole market. And that, will be messy but much needed.

It cant happen. If Hashfast/cointerra/whomever slash their prices to the point where its "clearly profitable", all that will result in is more orders than they could possibly deliver. Or if they somehow could deliver, even at those prices it would turn out to be no longer profitable because difficulty would shoot through the roof.

Anything can happen. It takes one company that can meet demand or at least put out enough to make things fair. Obviously if you are selling money printing machines you are going to need to set limits.
To get the network more secure, it would be nice to allow more people access, instead of just selling to big pocketed people.

Anything is possible, just need to have an open mind...

You dont get it. Plenty of miners seem to think current prices are "fair", or they wouldnt be buying. You expect a manufacturer to both lower their prices, and limit supply, only so that those miners would be guaranteed a profit (at their expense)? Get real.
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September 30, 2013, 09:54:57 AM
 #11786

new photo here
https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-39

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September 30, 2013, 09:55:57 AM
 #11787


old picture.

guys please, as I always said, just skim through the last few pages before posting.

Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
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September 30, 2013, 09:57:35 AM
 #11788

I can understand why KNC staff is happy about being able to deliver (unlimited amount) of stuff that brought them a nice amount of money. Failing to understand why people here are happy for being confirmed to receive a product that will no longer give a positive ROI, while being unable to cancel their orders.

sad, but you are right..
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September 30, 2013, 09:59:57 AM
 #11789

It is going to take JUST ONE company to release a profitable (clearly) miner to upend the whole market. And that, will be messy but much needed.

It cant happen. If Hashfast/cointerra/whomever slash their prices to the point where its "clearly profitable", all that will result in is more orders than they could possibly deliver. Or if they somehow could deliver, even at those prices it would turn out to be no longer profitable because difficulty would shoot through the roof.

Anything can happen. It takes one company that can meet demand or at least put out enough to make things fair. Obviously if you are selling money printing machines you are going to need to set limits.
To get the network more secure, it would be nice to allow more people access, instead of just selling to big pocketed people.

Anything is possible, just need to have an open mind...

You dont get it. Plenty of miners seem to think current prices are "fair", or they wouldnt be buying. You expect a manufacturer to both lower their prices, and limit supply, only so that those miners would be guaranteed a profit (at their expense)? Get real.

Maybe you don't get it? You seem fixed on your point. I am open to either and see possibilities.
If the chips are very cheap to produce (and they are) and the development is expensive (and it is), then it doesn't cost the manufacturers much more to put out more chips, which might be what KNC Miner is planning on doing.

I am real.  Wink

BTC = Black Swan.
BTC = Antifragile - "Some things benefit from shocks; they thrive and grow when exposed to volatility, randomness, disorder, and stressors and love adventure, risk, and uncertainty. Robust is not the opposite of fragile.
arlekyn13
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September 30, 2013, 10:02:56 AM
 #11790

It is going to take JUST ONE company to release a profitable (clearly) miner to upend the whole market. And that, will be messy but much needed.

It cant happen. If Hashfast/cointerra/whomever slash their prices to the point where its "clearly profitable", all that will result in is more orders than they could possibly deliver. Or if they somehow could deliver, even at those prices it would turn out to be no longer profitable because difficulty would shoot through the roof.

Anything can happen. It takes one company that can meet demand or at least put out enough to make things fair. Obviously if you are selling money printing machines you are going to need to set limits.
To get the network more secure, it would be nice to allow more people access, instead of just selling to big pocketed people.

Anything is possible, just need to have an open mind...

You dont get it. Plenty of miners seem to think current prices are "fair", or they wouldnt be buying. You expect a manufacturer to both lower their prices, and limit supply, only so that those miners would be guaranteed a profit (at their expense)? Get real.

Maybe you don't get it? You seem fixed on your point. I am open to either and see possibilities.
If the chips are very cheap to produce (and they are) and the development is expensive (and it is), then it doesn't cost the manufacturers much more to put out more chips, which might be what KNC Miner is planning on doing.

I am real.  Wink

Here is what I posted on KNC forums regarding this matter:

"Following the pre-order pattern, an ASIC producer takes very low risks, while the customers take the entire risk of their machines to become obsolete before delivery. The most important step a producer should take, would be to limit the number of available machines (chips) for each batch, a limit imposed by the willing to preserve a decent mining difficulty, not a limit imposed by the number of willing to buy customers...
What if Cointerra for example (or whatever producer that seems to be able to be next big hit) would sell 500.000 machines hashing at 2TH each for January delivery? They would be pretty much useless for the buyers, while the producer profit would skyrocket!
It would be so much better if there was a limit of hashing speed that could possibly be added each month to the network and the ASIC producers to auction their share of that hasing power, pretty much like TV rights for football games.

On the other hand, if i were an ASIC producer, I'd sell even 1 billion machines as long as I get profit from each and every sale!"

1CmrswU7JYpi9WNC8EHWCV3aam1FJsW2Zu - to show appreciation for my work
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September 30, 2013, 10:08:10 AM
 #11791

Maybe you don't get it? You seem fixed on your point.

yeah, because Ive been debating (and predicting)  this since before the first asic was even announced, I think Ive heard all angles.

Quote
If the chips are very cheap to produce (and they are) and the development is expensive (and it is), then it doesn't cost the manufacturers much more to put out more chips, which might be what KNC Miner is planning on doing.

Sure, they can (and will) lower prices per unit, but not to the point of obvious profitability without dramatically increasing demand. So either they must leave most of that demand unfulfilled or the increased supply will render the profitability moot again.

Its quite simple, there is too much demand for unprofitable mining gear. The only thing you can do about that, is not buy any.
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September 30, 2013, 10:09:49 AM
 #11792

So Sweden's cold and I've switched off from here until I have something to post.

Basically spent the last couple of nights out and about catching up with some girls I know.

Was kidnapped this morning, now at their manufacturing facility, which is huuuge.

Am not allowed to show a lot of the photos I've taken as you have to wear anti-static coats and err clogs of all things. Basically all the jackets are branded, so until I can photoshop blur them out I can only post pics that are okayed prior.

I haven't caught up on the thread, I imaged you've all fallen to pieces. Biomech has just forewarned me you have pitchforks. Because, why? It's not like I have any control over what I'd going on, or your ability to chill out.

Anyway, look what's arrived;



Not much else to report yet. Wink

EDIT; oh and as for the 'active but not posting' b*llocks. I'm in another country, which I have paid myself to come to. I'm not paying for data roaming on my sodding mobile so you can have you hands held on my minute by minute activity. You're relentless, and for the most part freaking me out. What little internet I have had has either been checked on free wifi, or here, I'm now paired to one of their mobiles, which involves standing outside. Which involves security clearance. Seriously when you think about it, it's bleeding obvious.

HIP HIP HOORAY?Huh?
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September 30, 2013, 10:11:35 AM
 #11793

Maybe you don't get it? You seem fixed on your point.

yeah, because Ive been debating (and predicting)  this since before the first asic was even announced, I think Ive heard all angles.

Quote
If the chips are very cheap to produce (and they are) and the development is expensive (and it is), then it doesn't cost the manufacturers much more to put out more chips, which might be what KNC Miner is planning on doing.

Sure, they can (and will) lower prices per unit, but not to the point of obvious profitability without dramatically increasing demand. So either they must leave most of that demand unfulfilled or the increased supply will render the profitability moot again.

Its quite simple, there is too much demand for unprofitable mining gear. The only thing you can do about that, is not buy any.


Don't confuse demand for unprofitable mining gear with demand for mining gear.
There is some demand for not profitable gear as perhaps, buying too many BTC's might raise the price so much and so they choose to just buy machines. A thought anyway.

It is interesting to debate, but whether we win or lose the debates. We really don't know what is going to happen. Pretty exciting in a sense, even with money on the line...
I've been shocked before and don't doubt it will happen again.

Perhaps, two open minding individuals can agree to say... "We'll see"

BTC = Black Swan.
BTC = Antifragile - "Some things benefit from shocks; they thrive and grow when exposed to volatility, randomness, disorder, and stressors and love adventure, risk, and uncertainty. Robust is not the opposite of fragile.
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September 30, 2013, 10:14:37 AM
 #11794

NEWS UPDATE

https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-38

Quote from: KNCMining
We have relocated most of our operation to the factory over the weekend. The first delivery of the chips have arrived and have been populated on the boards. We have begun testing and initial results are good, we will have more updates throughout the day. We know many of you are calling and we are sorry if we cannot answer your call. This is a very busy time for us but we are all hands on deck we can assure you of that.



NOW there is a happily married man who will be getting sum tonite....good job, sam, knc team and DID I SAY BITCOINORAMA FOR PRESIDENT??
ok,ok, alittle too soon for that but close....oh so close....now the question is to redhash or not to redhash as well
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September 30, 2013, 10:16:24 AM
 #11795

There IS a God!!!  I'm surely not sleeping tonight now... Smiley

figured you wouldn't be sleeping....plane ticket still on standby??
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September 30, 2013, 10:16:44 AM
 #11796

Don't confuse demand for unprofitable mining gear with demand for mining gear.
There is some demand for not profitable gear as perhaps, buying too many BTC's might raise the price so much and so they choose to just buy machines. A thought anyway.

It is interesting to debate, but whether we win or lose the debates. We really don't know what is going to happen. Pretty exciting in a sense, even with money on the line...
I've been shocked before and don't doubt it will happen again.

Perhaps, two open minding individuals can agree to say... "We'll see"

Sure, we will see Smiley. We will  (continue to) see what I and many others predicted a long, long time ago: overall bitcoin asics can only be (very) profitable for the vendors. Individual miners getting a profit from them will be a tiny lucky minority.
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September 30, 2013, 10:20:43 AM
 #11797

Looks like the margins on the time margins got pretty much used up, I wonder how the margins on the gigahash margins and the margins on the power usage margins have been doing...

-MarkM-


Mark, at this point, unless that picture of Sam with Chip is fake, we could at least begin to give them "SOME" benefit of doubt?? Yes, time is not perfect, some bitbets will be lost.....but when compared to what has transpired at other ASIC MANUFACTURERS, KNC SHOULD DEF. HOLD THEIR CHINS UP....YES MY RIG IS NOT HERE WITH ME YET....BUT IT IS LOOKING A HELL OF LOT BETTER
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September 30, 2013, 10:25:14 AM
 #11798

Don't confuse demand for unprofitable mining gear with demand for mining gear.
There is some demand for not profitable gear as perhaps, buying too many BTC's might raise the price so much and so they choose to just buy machines. A thought anyway.

It is interesting to debate, but whether we win or lose the debates. We really don't know what is going to happen. Pretty exciting in a sense, even with money on the line...
I've been shocked before and don't doubt it will happen again.

Perhaps, two open minding individuals can agree to say... "We'll see"

Sure, we will see Smiley. We will  (continue to) see what I and many others predicted a long, long time ago: overall bitcoin asics can only be (very) profitable for the vendors. Individual miners getting a profit from them will be a tiny lucky minority.

Maybe you are a really smart guy (and creative and open minded as well). But I think Einstein was wrong on occasion as well.  Cool

Bookmarked  Wink

BTC = Black Swan.
BTC = Antifragile - "Some things benefit from shocks; they thrive and grow when exposed to volatility, randomness, disorder, and stressors and love adventure, risk, and uncertainty. Robust is not the opposite of fragile.
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September 30, 2013, 10:25:44 AM
 #11799

Mark, at this point, unless that picture of Sam with Chip is fake, we could at least begin to give them "SOME" benefit of doubt?? Yes, time is not perfect, some bitbets will be lost.....but when compared to what has transpired at other ASIC MANUFACTURERS, KNC SHOULD DEF. HOLD THEIR CHINS UP....YES MY RIG IS NOT HERE WITH ME YET....BUT IT IS LOOKING A HELL OF LOT BETTER

No one sane thought this was all fake, but at the same time, we've not seen much more from KnC than we did from BFL when they posted pictures like this:



Remember that one?

From there to a working shipping product may be a small step or a giant 6+ month leap, we just dont know yet.
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September 30, 2013, 10:28:09 AM
 #11800

I can understand why KNC staff is happy about being able to deliver (unlimited amount) of stuff that brought them a nice amount of money. Failing to understand why people here are happy for being confirmed to receive a product that will no longer give a positive ROI, while being unable to cancel their orders.

NEGATIVE NEGATIVE NEGATIVE.....


lets just say that I don't ROI, MAYBE I GET 50% OF investment back, guess what, as a loyal customer of KNC, I KNOW THEY WILL BE MAKING A GEN2, so guess where that 50% will go....and seems like KNC DID PROMISE SOME OF US EARLY RISK TAKERS FUTURE CONSIDERATION ON NEXT GEN......GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME....
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