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vesperwillow
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September 20, 2013, 02:49:19 PM |
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KNC is unique because of the time from design to delivery. Bitfury was under design for quite awhile weren't they?
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markm
Legendary
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Activity: 2940
Merit: 1090
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September 20, 2013, 02:51:43 PM |
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Surely in all these years humans have been soldering, someone must have hit upon the idea of making different-temperature solders so you can do things like solder the board with higher temperature solder then use a lower temperature solder to solder-in the ASIC when it arrives, so you can remove it without all the other components on the board coming loose?
They said the plan was to test the engines that are in the chip, shutting down those that don't work, how are they wasting the rest of the board if so many don't work that they have to loosen the lower temperature solder to remove the ASIC later once their shipping deadline has been hit?
Heck they could auction off "too few good engines board plus tested all-good-engines chip" do it yourself kits to DIYers later once they do have a system set up for testing the chips before they get onto boards. They could even have had the foundry make way the fuck more chips than they need for this initial formula-one-race run (including oodles of spares just in case) and thus have as many or more chips heading out to some testing place that can take a week or few to test the bejeezus out of them before sending them on to Sweden so that everything after the big race is totally tested fifty-five ways from sunday before they get them.
-MarkM-
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itod
Legendary
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Activity: 1974
Merit: 1076
^ Will code for Bitcoins
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September 20, 2013, 02:52:14 PM |
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True about Bitfury, but that just underlines the whole point. BTW, while we are at Bitfury, those guys are doing some amazing things. First they promised Batch #1 of their units before September 1st, delivered August 31st. Then they promised tons of their reels before October 1st: http://www.bitfurystrikesback.com/product/bitfury-reel-fifo/few hours ago there's a news they delivered today, week earlier!!! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=288718.msg3196636#msg3196636Unheard of in BTC world. Hope others will follow their example. Edit: Only one week earlier, my mistake.
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kevinm
Full Member
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Activity: 228
Merit: 100
This is not good for my Chi... Yifu
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September 20, 2013, 03:02:28 PM |
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the ride was great, but the cliff is soon approaching. your first day of operation on a jupiter will get you 1.5 BTC max Hardly Avalon batch 1 levels is it?
slag me off if u like, but make sure you post your rewards when u start hashing if im wrong, i will eat yip yip's ball sack (escrowed through john of course)
cheers, kev
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btcusr
Sr. Member
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Activity: 405
Merit: 255
@_vjy
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September 20, 2013, 03:12:00 PM |
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I think, it is not always hash rates. sometimes luck also play a major (small) role in winning a block. Is it the largest pool is winning the most blocks? at least, proportionally winning most? I don't think so. So, even if you get your miners by October, you are going to use it till next two years. by this time, total network hash rate could go up to ~100PHash. Lets hope 22nm ASICS not going to happen in 2014.. so, let's just relax.
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rolling
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September 20, 2013, 03:19:15 PM |
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I really want to see KNC and Cointerra delivering and going head to head.
Cointerra? Lol. Maybe KNC and Bitfury.
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Micky25
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Activity: 974
Merit: 1000
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September 20, 2013, 03:20:06 PM |
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Sorry for OT, but if someone wants to honour such progress and maybe motivate other ASIC-vendors to show similar exemplary business behavior, have a look at the BFSB-Post in my signature.
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vesperwillow
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September 20, 2013, 03:25:22 PM |
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Sorry for OT, but if someone wants to honour such progress and maybe motivate other ASIC-vendors to show similar exemplary business behavior, have a look at the BFSB-Post in my signature. Why would we want to give money to people already making money? And for the price they're asking for october delivery, you can get blades right now for less cost for the same hash power.
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Micky25
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Activity: 974
Merit: 1000
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September 20, 2013, 03:36:08 PM |
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I try to answer this with another post I made. I bought 2 starter kits for August delivery and paid 1.000€ each, got them on September 4th and mined a bit more than 3 BTC with them until today. Two other investments are in limbo, one huge in semi-limbo with 20%, maybe 100% loss, waiting for refund, and the final two refunded after several months, one of them with 9% loss. All money I put in came from own labour. So the BFSB investment is the only one, that actually brings me back something. And this makes me very, very happy. If I get a ROI? I do already! If I ever break even? Only time will tell I only know the product and the company behind it are rock solid, tell me one other this can be said of. Thats why I reinvested.
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Puppet
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Activity: 980
Merit: 1040
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September 20, 2013, 03:36:57 PM |
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You keep forgetting some facts: I cant forget "facts" Ive never known about. Much less facts that arent. That said - KNC are in different situation than any other ASIC ever produced. We've never seen 100% a month difficulty growth, and we may see much higher figures very soon. I wasnt talking about bitcoin asics, Im talking about asics in general. And if you think KnC is the first company to face a huge time to market pressure, well, you're wrong. In fact, the pressure really isnt on KnC so much as its on its customers. KnC already collected, and a few days or a few weeks of delays doesnt cost them much, if anything. Its their customers who stand to lose, but if KnC delivers only one or two weeks behind schedule, not many will complain and only a fool would charge back and go stand in line at a competitor. And we are not talking about weeks, I dont know why I keep saying that, we are talking about.. well, no time at all really. - They don't have a facilities to do the chip-level resting in-house, only the board level testing. Thats a fact I hadnt read about. But not a surprising one. Nor should it matter, it seems extremely unlikely that the fab wouldnt have a wafer probe nor the assembly house either a wafer probe nor chip testing equipment. That just isnt gonna happen. And even if that were the case: - If they try to do chip-level testing for a whole batch #1 of their chips in China, it could take a week (or two). You wouldnt send it across the globe, you would find a company offering testing services in the same building or at least same campus. Dont you think each and every customer of the packaging house needs testing? Not finding a testing facility less than a stone throw away sounds about as likely as a hospital without coffee machines or news stand - They don't have tested design yet. They may have a single problem in the design which can slow them down a week (or two) to solve.
Sure, not sure how that makes a point against wafer and/or chip testing. On the contrary, you would want to know what is going wrong with every non functional miner. Is it a bad PCB? Bad assembly? Bad packaging? Bad die's ? Where on the wafer were the bad dies located? That sort of stuff. Hard to find out after you packaged and assembled everything. All you know is it doesnt work for some reason. Anyway, this discussion isnt important enough to continue, but Im pretty sure you have it wrong.
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soy
Legendary
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Activity: 1428
Merit: 1013
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September 20, 2013, 03:37:36 PM |
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So, there will be PCIE-8 connectors for 12vdc to the main board but does the Beaglebone take 5vdc? Is there a 12v-5v switching down converter onboard or will the Beaglebone always require a separate 5vdc supply? I can see how one might first apply the 5vdc, login, configure the miner, then fire up the 12vdc but an onboard converter would preclude two PSUs given the device can already have been configured.
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vesperwillow
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September 20, 2013, 03:41:50 PM |
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I try to answer this with another post I made. I bought 2 starter kits for August delivery and paid 1.000€ each, got them on September 4th and mined a bit more than 3 BTC with them until today. Two other investments are in limbo, one huge in semi-limbo with 20%, maybe 100% loss, waiting for refund, and the final two refunded after several months, one of them with 9% loss. All money I put in came from own labour. So the BFSB investment is the only one, that actually brings me back something. And this makes me very, very happy. If I get a ROI? I do already! If I ever break even? Only time will tell I only know the product and the company behind it are rock solid, tell me one other this can be said of. Thats why I reinvested. You paid 1 Euro for hashing machines? So, there will be PCIE-8 connectors for 12vdc to the main board but does the Beaglebone take 5vdc? Is there a 12v-5v switching down converter onboard or will the Beaglebone always require a separate 5vdc supply? I can see how one might first apply the 5vdc, login, configure the miner, then fire up the 12vdc but an onboard converter would preclude two PSUs given the device can already have been configured.
You're questioning whether an engineering team with proven designs is going to forget to put a voltage regulator in place so a daughterboard can handle lower voltages? Seriously?
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-Redacted-
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September 20, 2013, 03:46:28 PM |
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I try to answer this with another post I made. I bought 2 starter kits for August delivery and paid 1.000€ each, got them on September 4th and mined a bit more than 3 BTC with them until today. Two other investments are in limbo, one huge in semi-limbo with 20%, maybe 100% loss, waiting for refund, and the final two refunded after several months, one of them with 9% loss. All money I put in came from own labour. So the BFSB investment is the only one, that actually brings me back something. And this makes me very, very happy. If I get a ROI? I do already! If I ever break even? Only time will tell I only know the product and the company behind it are rock solid, tell me one other this can be said of. Thats why I reinvested. Is that all you mined? I bought two starters, got them around the same time, but I've mined almost 16 coins. I'm up to .52 BTC already today and it's still only 10:30 in the morning. I should see another Slush and BTCG payout by the end of today, as well. Confirmed Date Type Label Amount TRUE 2013-09-20T09:07:36 Received with BTC Guild (mining) 0.25 TRUE 2013-09-20T09:02:23 Received with Slush's pool (mining) 0.2509495 TRUE 2013-09-20T00:08:20 Received with HHTT 0.02167634
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soy
Legendary
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Activity: 1428
Merit: 1013
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September 20, 2013, 03:48:58 PM |
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So, there will be PCIE-8 connectors for 12vdc to the main board but does the Beaglebone take 5vdc? Is there a 12v-5v switching down converter onboard or will the Beaglebone always require a separate 5vdc supply? I can see how one might first apply the 5vdc, login, configure the miner, then fire up the 12vdc but an onboard converter would preclude two PSUs given the device can already have been configured.
You're questioning whether an engineering team with proven designs is going to forget to put a voltage regulator in place so a daughterboard can handle lower voltages? Seriously? The question came to mind seeing the Beaglebone PSU connector. About your tone....
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vesperwillow
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September 20, 2013, 03:54:25 PM |
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So, there will be PCIE-8 connectors for 12vdc to the main board but does the Beaglebone take 5vdc? Is there a 12v-5v switching down converter onboard or will the Beaglebone always require a separate 5vdc supply? I can see how one might first apply the 5vdc, login, configure the miner, then fire up the 12vdc but an onboard converter would preclude two PSUs given the device can already have been configured.
You're questioning whether an engineering team with proven designs is going to forget to put a voltage regulator in place so a daughterboard can handle lower voltages? Seriously? The question came to mind seeing the Beaglebone PSU connector. About your tone.... I wasn't trying to be rude, I just look at it differently. My take is to simplify things, they would have an onboard power source for the BB.
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xyzzy099
Legendary
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Activity: 1064
Merit: 1074
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September 20, 2013, 04:04:03 PM |
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So, there will be PCIE-8 connectors for 12vdc to the main board but does the Beaglebone take 5vdc? Is there a 12v-5v switching down converter onboard or will the Beaglebone always require a separate 5vdc supply? I can see how one might first apply the 5vdc, login, configure the miner, then fire up the 12vdc but an onboard converter would preclude two PSUs given the device can already have been configured.
You're questioning whether an engineering team with proven designs is going to forget to put a voltage regulator in place so a daughterboard can handle lower voltages? Seriously? The question came to mind seeing the Beaglebone PSU connector. About your tone.... I wasn't trying to be rude, I just look at it differently. My take is to simplify things, they would have an onboard power source for the BB. Another valid engineering perspective would be 'to make it less expensively, let's not have an onboard power source for the BB.'
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Libertarians: Diligently plotting to take over the world and leave you alone.
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vesperwillow
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September 20, 2013, 04:11:30 PM |
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So, there will be PCIE-8 connectors for 12vdc to the main board but does the Beaglebone take 5vdc? Is there a 12v-5v switching down converter onboard or will the Beaglebone always require a separate 5vdc supply? I can see how one might first apply the 5vdc, login, configure the miner, then fire up the 12vdc but an onboard converter would preclude two PSUs given the device can already have been configured.
You're questioning whether an engineering team with proven designs is going to forget to put a voltage regulator in place so a daughterboard can handle lower voltages? Seriously? The question came to mind seeing the Beaglebone PSU connector. About your tone.... I wasn't trying to be rude, I just look at it differently. My take is to simplify things, they would have an onboard power source for the BB. Another valid engineering perspective would be 'to make it less expensively, let's not have an onboard power source for the BB.' The cost of a DC:DC regulator, especially by the reel, is on the order of pennies, or fractions of a penny depending on what you get. They already said the only power connections to be made will be PCIE. They're going with a KIS method for this. Plugging up an extra power cord adds complexity and time, especially for rig-testing. I'd wager they're willing to spend the .005 cents on the PCB components for onboard power.
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eiliant
Member
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Activity: 84
Merit: 10
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September 20, 2013, 04:18:42 PM |
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For bitbet, does it count if shipped starts at the end of September or does it have to be delivered to your door? Also, hosting.
I think it's possible that KNC will start shipping at the end of September, thus the actual rigs arriving early October.
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xyzzy099
Legendary
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Activity: 1064
Merit: 1074
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September 20, 2013, 04:20:41 PM |
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So, there will be PCIE-8 connectors for 12vdc to the main board but does the Beaglebone take 5vdc? Is there a 12v-5v switching down converter onboard or will the Beaglebone always require a separate 5vdc supply? I can see how one might first apply the 5vdc, login, configure the miner, then fire up the 12vdc but an onboard converter would preclude two PSUs given the device can already have been configured.
You're questioning whether an engineering team with proven designs is going to forget to put a voltage regulator in place so a daughterboard can handle lower voltages? Seriously? The question came to mind seeing the Beaglebone PSU connector. About your tone.... I wasn't trying to be rude, I just look at it differently. My take is to simplify things, they would have an onboard power source for the BB. Another valid engineering perspective would be 'to make it less expensively, let's not have an onboard power source for the BB.' The cost of a DC:DC regulator, especially by the reel, is on the order of pennies, or fractions of a penny depending on what you get. They already said the only power connections to be made will be PCIE. They're going with a KIS method for this. Plugging up an extra power cord adds complexity and time, especially for rig-testing. I'd wager they're willing to spend the .005 cents on the PCB components for onboard power. It's obvious you have never worked on a design for mass production. Eliminating a DC-DC regulator and associated circuitry would typically be considered a massive win for manufacturing.
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Libertarians: Diligently plotting to take over the world and leave you alone.
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