Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Voodah]

The part in question is the STM32F205RET6 ARM processor which is easy enough to order up at the usual sources.

Unfortunately, counterfeit parts are epidemic in the components industry today, and the incentive to spin up a "special" one of these is...rather large

Can't you trust the usual places to source you clean parts? Where do SatoshiLabs order their parts?

Now you are starting to think.  THAT is a very good question.  One would hope that they have a secure delivery arrangement with the manufacturer...one would hope...their website is mute on the subject.

You guys had convinced me to get one until I read this post.

Is there any evidence to raise the minimum glimpse of suspicion? #doyouknowsomethingwedont?

[Arriemoller]

So, let's see if I got it all right.

I go to the library, (with my clothes on), download the "make your paper wallet" site from the library computer (so the computer can't be traced to me) onto a USB stick. Buy a refurbished poo computer from Ebay, Get naked, take a shower just to be sure, put on a balaclava thats been in the microwave to kill the microcameras that might have been put there by the Chinese who made it, get an enema, make the wallets, preferably in a dark room with loud music, print them on a virgin printer, pour petrol on the printer and computer and burn them, put the wallets in an envelope seal it with wax and my coat of arms, and put it in my box in the bank.

Did I miss anything?

But seriously, thank you all for your input, I know OPSEC is important, and I do get more and more paranoid as the price goes up.

Do yourself a favour. Get a TREZOR. Seriously. I don't think you want to expose yourself to the risks of owning and maintaining a paper wallet. Write your 24-word seed on 2-3 small pieces or paper, laminate them, and store/hide them safely in 2-3 separate places. Also, use an additional 25th word/phrase (passphrase), so that even if someone finds your seed, it will be useless without the passphrase.

All done! You can sleep peacefully at night. Definitely worth the 100-something € to buy the TREZOR.

^^^ THIS

I really can't understand guys having a "fortune" in crypto and not owning some hardware wallets. You don't even need to put everything you own into it. Just buy it, play with it and, when you are confident enough, decide how much you want to manage with a hardware wallet, how much in paperwallets, how much in exchanges, in software wallets, etc....

I don't trust those electronic gizmo's. Paper and ink is after all paper and ink, and can't be tampered with. Keeping it in a safe place is the least of my worries.

[Enjel]

This is the 4th time on 6hr chart that we've had these bumps back up $750+.  Each time though the overall trend is it drops lower.

I hope we can get a REAL breakout on one of these and stay up finally.  Until then I definitely don't trust the increase in price as having staying power.  We

Isn't that just totally normal? 5% ups and downs, with a big of fluctuation.

And in the long run, since the big correction, the dips have stabilized. 10k - 16k bouncing for a while seems reasonable to me. 8k is possible, but would be an extreme low (that is literally quoting Novogratz, who I trust with predictions).
For the price to really drop, you would need some pretty bad news.

You must be new 

I started in 2016 - for some that is new.

You are saying the price will reach 8k without bad news? Doubt it. Even South Korean FUD hasn't hurt much.

[Rosewater Foundation]

The part in question is the STM32F205RET6 ARM processor which is easy enough to order up at the usual sources.

Unfortunately, counterfeit parts are epidemic in the components industry today, and the incentive to spin up a "special" one of these is...rather large

Can't you trust the usual places to source you clean parts? Where do SatoshiLabs order their parts?

Now you are starting to think.  THAT is a very good question.  One would hope that they have a secure delivery arrangement with the manufacturer...one would hope...their website is mute on the subject.

You guys had convinced me to get one until I read this post.

Is there any evidence to raise the minimum glimpse of suspicion? #doyouknowsomethingwedont?

I'd like to know how much damage one of these counterfeit parts can do? How nefarious can they possibly act in this context? Given the amount of dough other people have at stake, I suspect there's already been a lot of digging. I'm personally willing to risk being weirded by technology more than I'm prepared to have someone walk away with a paper wallet. But just barely.

[jojo69]

The part in question is the STM32F205RET6 ARM processor which is easy enough to order up at the usual sources.

Unfortunately, counterfeit parts are epidemic in the components industry today, and the incentive to spin up a "special" one of these is...rather large

Can't you trust the usual places to source you clean parts? Where do SatoshiLabs order their parts?

Now you are starting to think.  THAT is a very good question.  One would hope that they have a secure delivery arrangement with the manufacturer...one would hope...their website is mute on the subject.

You guys had convinced me to get one until I read this post.

Is there any evidence to raise the minimum glimpse of suspicion? #doyouknowsomethingwedont?

Let me be clear.

I am NOT trying to spread FUD, nor dissuade anyone from using a Trezor.  This is a purely theoretical threat vector.

I am one paranoid motherfucker gentlemen.  The sums are...substantial...

[Arriemoller]

So, let's see if I got it all right.

I go to the library, (with my clothes on), download the "make your paper wallet" site from the library computer (so the computer can't be traced to me) onto a USB stick. Buy a refurbished poo computer from Ebay, Get naked, take a shower just to be sure, put on a balaclava thats been in the microwave to kill the microcameras that might have been put there by the Chinese who made it, get an enema, make the wallets, preferably in a dark room with loud music, print them on a virgin printer, pour petrol on the printer and computer and burn them, put the wallets in an envelope seal it with wax and my coat of arms, and put it in my box in the bank.

Did I miss anything?

But seriously, thank you all for your input, I know OPSEC is important, and I do get more and more paranoid as the price goes up.

Seems like if you put it in the bank, then you still need one other location, in case the bank burns down or something.  Whether your second location is your home or another bank, it is not so likely that your catastrophic failure is going to happen at both of your locations at the same time, no?

I am, seriously, going to bury a laminated copy somewhere on my land. And have smaller amounts also in my hidden home safe. (I have a visible decoy safe bought very cheap from Cina with some crap in it).

[jojo69]

also, please see the edit to my post above regarding the Ledger

What I am waiting for before I migrate to a hardware solution is something well built, they are both just laughably flimsy, and open source save for the secure enterprise chip, with a larger screen and more than 2 buttons.

Is that too much to ask?

[jojo69]

I am, seriously, going to bury a laminated copy somewhere on my land. And have smaller amounts also in my hidden home safe. (I have a visible decoy safe bought very cheap from Cina with some crap in it).

and now the internet knows all these things

[Rosewater Foundation]

I don't know much about paper wallets. But aren't they basically bearer bonds. Are they pw protected at all? Doesn't asset forfeiture apply to bank safe deposit boxes just as well as accounts?

I don't trust banks full-stop.

Seems like a very physical approach to security.

[explorer]

So, let's see if I got it all right.

I go to the library, (with my clothes on), download the "make your paper wallet" site from the library computer (so the computer can't be traced to me) onto a USB stick. Buy a refurbished poo computer from Ebay, Get naked, take a shower just to be sure, put on a balaclava thats been in the microwave to kill the microcameras that might have been put there by the Chinese who made it, get an enema, make the wallets, preferably in a dark room with loud music, print them on a virgin printer, pour petrol on the printer and computer and burn them, put the wallets in an envelope seal it with wax and my coat of arms, and put it in my box in the bank.

Did I miss anything?

But seriously, thank you all for your input, I know OPSEC is important, and I do get more and more paranoid as the price goes up.

Seems like if you put it in the bank, then you still need one other location, in case the bank burns down or something.  Whether your second location is your home or another bank, it is not so likely that your catastrophic failure is going to happen at both of your locations at the same time, no?

I am, seriously, going to bury a laminated copy somewhere on my land. And have smaller amounts also in my hidden home safe. (I have a visible decoy safe bought very cheap from Cina with some crap in it).

First off, you people seem to have an inordinate amount of trust in banks.  'Safe deposit boxes'  Belong to the bank, just like your deposits.  Access is controlled...Not by You.

As for burying laminated paper... Maybe if you live in a desert.  Test your lamination in a bucket of water for double your minimum expected burial time, with many test subjects.  Plastic is water resistant.  For a time.  Not for all time. Better to bury stamped stainless, or even stamped plastic if you worry about metal detectors, or if heat is a zero concern (house fire, wild fire, etc.)

[Arriemoller]

I am, seriously, going to bury a laminated copy somewhere on my land. And have smaller amounts also in my hidden home safe. (I have a visible decoy safe bought very cheap from Cina with some crap in it).

and now the internet knows all these things

True, but I'm protecting against the random burglar, not the cheap wrench, that ship has sailed.

[Arriemoller]

I don't know much about paper wallets. But aren't they basically bearer bonds. Are they pw protected at all? Doesn't asset forfeiture apply to bank safe deposit boxes just as well as accounts?

I don't trust banks full-stop.

Seems like a very physical approach to security.

I don't even know what that means.

[Arriemoller]

So, let's see if I got it all right.

I go to the library, (with my clothes on), download the "make your paper wallet" site from the library computer (so the computer can't be traced to me) onto a USB stick. Buy a refurbished poo computer from Ebay, Get naked, take a shower just to be sure, put on a balaclava thats been in the microwave to kill the microcameras that might have been put there by the Chinese who made it, get an enema, make the wallets, preferably in a dark room with loud music, print them on a virgin printer, pour petrol on the printer and computer and burn them, put the wallets in an envelope seal it with wax and my coat of arms, and put it in my box in the bank.

Did I miss anything?

But seriously, thank you all for your input, I know OPSEC is important, and I do get more and more paranoid as the price goes up.

Seems like if you put it in the bank, then you still need one other location, in case the bank burns down or something.  Whether your second location is your home or another bank, it is not so likely that your catastrophic failure is going to happen at both of your locations at the same time, no?

I am, seriously, going to bury a laminated copy somewhere on my land. And have smaller amounts also in my hidden home safe. (I have a visible decoy safe bought very cheap from Cina with some crap in it).

First off, you people seem to have an inordinate amount of trust in banks.  'Safe deposit boxes'  Belong to the bank, just like your deposits.  Access is controlled...Not by You.

As for burying laminated paper... Maybe if you live in a desert.  Test your lamination in a bucket of water for double your minimum expected burial time, with many test subjects.  Plastic is water resistant.  For a time.  Not for all time. Better to bury stamped stainless, or even stamped plastic if you worry about metal detectors, or if heat is a zero concern (house fire, wild fire, etc.)

To clarify, they would in turn be in a airtight plastic container.

[Rosewater Foundation]

First off, you people seem to have an inordinate amount of trust in banks.  'Safe deposit boxes'  Belong to the bank, just like your deposits.  Access is controlled...Not by You.

This is what I meant. I can't English good.

[explorer]

I don't know much about paper wallets. But aren't they basically bearer bonds. Are they pw protected at all? Doesn't asset forfeiture apply to bank safe deposit boxes just as well as accounts?

I don't trust banks full-stop.

Seems like a very physical approach to security.

I don't even know what that means.

It means being your own bank requires that you don't cede control of everything... to a motherfucking bank!  I'd rather leave it all on Poloniex.

[Arriemoller]

So, let's see if I got it all right.

I go to the library, (with my clothes on), download the "make your paper wallet" site from the library computer (so the computer can't be traced to me) onto a USB stick. Buy a refurbished poo computer from Ebay, Get naked, take a shower just to be sure, put on a balaclava thats been in the microwave to kill the microcameras that might have been put there by the Chinese who made it, get an enema, make the wallets, preferably in a dark room with loud music, print them on a virgin printer, pour petrol on the printer and computer and burn them, put the wallets in an envelope seal it with wax and my coat of arms, and put it in my box in the bank.

Did I miss anything?

But seriously, thank you all for your input, I know OPSEC is important, and I do get more and more paranoid as the price goes up.

Seems like if you put it in the bank, then you still need one other location, in case the bank burns down or something.  Whether your second location is your home or another bank, it is not so likely that your catastrophic failure is going to happen at both of your locations at the same time, no?

I am, seriously, going to bury a laminated copy somewhere on my land. And have smaller amounts also in my hidden home safe. (I have a visible decoy safe bought very cheap from Cina with some crap in it).

First off, you people seem to have an inordinate amount of trust in banks.  'Safe deposit boxes'  Belong to the bank, just like your deposits.  Access is controlled...Not by You.

As for burying laminated paper... Maybe if you live in a desert.  Test your lamination in a bucket of water for double your minimum expected burial time, with many test subjects.  Plastic is water resistant.  For a time.  Not for all time. Better to bury stamped stainless, or even stamped plastic if you worry about metal detectors, or if heat is a zero concern (house fire, wild fire, etc.)

Maybe that applies to the US, but in Sweden The deposit boxes content belongs to me.

[Rosewater Foundation]

Ah. Sweden. Sounds lovely.

[explorer]

So, let's see if I got it all right.

I go to the library, (with my clothes on), download the "make your paper wallet" site from the library computer (so the computer can't be traced to me) onto a USB stick. Buy a refurbished poo computer from Ebay, Get naked, take a shower just to be sure, put on a balaclava thats been in the microwave to kill the microcameras that might have been put there by the Chinese who made it, get an enema, make the wallets, preferably in a dark room with loud music, print them on a virgin printer, pour petrol on the printer and computer and burn them, put the wallets in an envelope seal it with wax and my coat of arms, and put it in my box in the bank.

Did I miss anything?

But seriously, thank you all for your input, I know OPSEC is important, and I do get more and more paranoid as the price goes up.

Seems like if you put it in the bank, then you still need one other location, in case the bank burns down or something.  Whether your second location is your home or another bank, it is not so likely that your catastrophic failure is going to happen at both of your locations at the same time, no?

I am, seriously, going to bury a laminated copy somewhere on my land. And have smaller amounts also in my hidden home safe. (I have a visible decoy safe bought very cheap from Cina with some crap in it).

First off, you people seem to have an inordinate amount of trust in banks.  'Safe deposit boxes'  Belong to the bank, just like your deposits.  Access is controlled...Not by You.

As for burying laminated paper... Maybe if you live in a desert.  Test your lamination in a bucket of water for double your minimum expected burial time, with many test subjects.  Plastic is water resistant.  For a time.  Not for all time. Better to bury stamped stainless, or even stamped plastic if you worry about metal detectors, or if heat is a zero concern (house fire, wild fire, etc.)

Maybe that applies to the US, but in Sweden The deposit boxes content belongs to me.

Until it doesn't.  Used to be that way everywhere.  If you are correct, Sweden is one of the few remaining western states where this is the case.  I suppose you don't have bail-in laws either then.  Canada got those in 2013.  Depositors are 3rd tier creditors.

[Arriemoller]

You rent the box and it can't be opened without a court order.

[bitserve]

So, let's see if I got it all right.

I go to the library, (with my clothes on), download the "make your paper wallet" site from the library computer (so the computer can't be traced to me) onto a USB stick. Buy a refurbished poo computer from Ebay, Get naked, take a shower just to be sure, put on a balaclava thats been in the microwave to kill the microcameras that might have been put there by the Chinese who made it, get an enema, make the wallets, preferably in a dark room with loud music, print them on a virgin printer, pour petrol on the printer and computer and burn them, put the wallets in an envelope seal it with wax and my coat of arms, and put it in my box in the bank.

Did I miss anything?

But seriously, thank you all for your input, I know OPSEC is important, and I do get more and more paranoid as the price goes up.

Do yourself a favour. Get a TREZOR. Seriously. I don't think you want to expose yourself to the risks of owning and maintaining a paper wallet. Write your 24-word seed on 2-3 small pieces or paper, laminate them, and store/hide them safely in 2-3 separate places. Also, use an additional 25th word/phrase (passphrase), so that even if someone finds your seed, it will be useless without the passphrase.

All done! You can sleep peacefully at night. Definitely worth the 100-something € to buy the TREZOR.

^^^ THIS

I really can't understand guys having a "fortune" in crypto and not owning some hardware wallets. You don't even need to put everything you own into it. Just buy it, play with it and, when you are confident enough, decide how much you want to manage with a hardware wallet, how much in paperwallets, how much in exchanges, in software wallets, etc....

I don't trust those electronic gizmo's. Paper and ink is after all paper and ink, and can't be tampered with. Keeping it in a safe place is the least of my worries.

Fair concern. But then you must also take into account that if you are using paperwallets, you:

- Are trusting that the algo they are using to generate them is completely foolproof.

- When you go to redeem them... I supposse you will be using a completely safe, isolated computer, sign the transaction and broadcast it from a connected one.

That process is cumbersome and it seems you just come up with an equivalent security of a hardware wallet.

I am more into DIVERSIFY investments and DIVERSIFY risks. Never put all egg into the same basket....

That said, I have to recognise that most of my "eggs" are on hardware wallets (two ledgers and 1 trezor).

If you are gonna go the paperwallet route... just make sure each one is of small amount, so that when you go "redeem" it, you will notice if anything "went wrong" before redeeming the next one.