Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[jojo69]

Koreans are best off buying Bitcoin right now so their funds will be safe and easily taken with them during any mass evacuations from war.  Russia refueling North Korea and getting caught just now is just the start of more instability...

I wouldn’t count on Ripple liquidity and support.

uhhh, minor point, it was China caught refueling NK

[1714950466]

1714950466

[HairyMaclairy]

I sincerely believe we're headed back down to the 12000 range for the new year. Any objections?

I have decided that I will have two price forecasts.  My first price forecast is for 2021.  My second price forecast is for 5 minutes into the future, and only under certain conditions.  I claim no knowledge for the intervening period.

[ragnar0k]

Seriously, of all possible threats to btc, ripple was the lowest possible in my radar, danger level: doge

[marcus_of_augustus]

bankster coinz Ether, Ripple and Btrash are being gang-pumped to stupid heights totally disconnected from any real world usage ... and now they have cash-settled bitcoin futures for some fiat-trash shorting leverage they are trying to keep bitcoin down ... and the usual trolls and shills have shown up right on cue like clockwork.

Good buying opportunities while we go sideways, I don't see any signs of panic-dumping, the top never really blew off, so sideways to down before the final mega-wave before coming to rest at the new plateau ... wherever that is, noone really knows, except maybe masterluc.

[HairyMaclairy]

Seriously, of all possible threats to btc, ripple was the lowest possible in my radar, danger level: doge

The threat level hasn’t changed. It’s just good honest whale fun.  

[the artful bodger]

Weren't we just at 15000? These fake breakouts are playing havoc on my speculation senses.

I'm with Torque. I'm thinking things are going to be mostly sideways until mid January. Aiming for $20k USD by end of January.

I hope.

The price was going up too fast. We need some sideways movement to cool things down before the next big move up. This year's gains have been sustainable because of all the small corrections and periods of sideways movement. A few more sideways weeks is good.

[kurious]

snip

Buying and selling dash is not a taxable event for you? How is that?

Well I understood you pay captial gains when there is a fiat gain in value at the time when you dispose it, ie sell it for fiat. I'm in the UK. I hope I got that right. If I have to proof every single trade between Dash and Bitcoin or whatever other crypto I don't know how on earth I could even start to do that   Some exchanges I have used no longer even exist.

I sympathise, in UK too. 

Since HMRC advice is so sketchy (it goes back to a vague 2014 reference effectively saying 'we will treat it all on a case-by-case basis') we are in the dark.

I only cash out in BTC and only (originally) went in via BTC so, I am asking my accountant to simply list all fiat 'in' events and fiat 'out' events and hoping it will be just CGT.  But be aware they can see it as 'badge of trade' and charge as though it was income if they think you're a trader.

I am hoping if I cough up CGT and list only Bitcoin bought and sold and just pay up, they will accept it.

If not, I will find others here in the same position and suggest we club together to get a QC to fight HMRC - as paying 45% income tax will be too much to let pass.

I know you and I have different 'cryptos of choice' but we may end up in the same expensive boat, under the same threat of a massive tax bill.

Odds on they will just take the CGT, but if not...  Let's consider a fight - I think we can probably both afford to chip in for a legal case with others, which they won't have the staff or competence to want to bother with.

Sometimes Dashheads and Moneroans can perhaps find common cause ;-)

I was reading about an ultrapreneur tax that is flat 10%, you may need to pass a few ticks and go through some hoops in the year before to meet the conditions.

That, I think - is if you sell your business off completely, that is to protect people retiring who have one business and want to cash out (after paying tax on the profits along the way).

If you trade cypto 'as a business' you will pay tax up to 45% on profits made.  Then you 'could' sell the business and get 'entrepeneur's relief'

So unless you have found a way my accountant and I have not - I don't think it's possible.  I wish!

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Weren't we just at 15000? These fake breakouts are playing havoc on my speculation senses.

I'm with Torque. I'm thinking things are going to be mostly sideways until mid January. Aiming for $20k USD by end of January.

I hope.

The price was going up too fast. We need some sideways movement to cool things down before the next big move up. This year's gains have been sustainable because of all the small corrections and periods of sideways movement. A few more sideways weeks is good.

I can live with sideways. Not sure what kind of memes we can make of that. But I'm willing to try.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

I sincerely believe we're headed back down to the 12000 range for the new year. Any objections?

Stop ripple shilling already 

I never shilled for a shitcoin in my whole life and you know it.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

[marcus_of_augustus]

sideways ... coming to a theater near you

[sirazimuth]

I can live with sideways. Not sure what kind of memes we can make of that. But I'm willing to try.

oh yeah , Sideways... that was a pretty good flick....

how did i guess that meme would be posted? i must be psychic....

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

I can live with sideways. Not sure what kind of memes we can make of that. But I'm willing to try.

oh yeah , Sideways... that was a pretty good flick....

how did i guess that meme would be posted? i must be psychic....

[kurious]

When this triangle ends...

Up or down?

[conspirosphere.tk]

I want to see some real quality sideways memes ... rockets, trains and bears, falling rocks have been overdone imho.

This one about the last correction was good:
https://twitter.com/_tm3k/status/944111529019965441

and notice that he finally lands on an upward escalator.

[realr0ach]

Can anyone spot the govt plan yet?  Let morons hype craptocurrencies and use that as cover for the banks to pump Ripple.  Next step will be govts banning all anon and pseudo-anon craptocurrency until only permissioned ledgers like Ripple exist then force everyone onto them.  Bitcoin holders will see a WSJ headline sometime stating bitcoin banned and then the price plunges to nothing, OR the bankers will create an MIT chain anchor fork of bitcoin and say you're required to transact on that chain if you want to use it.  Either way, both speculators and people who make believe craptocurrency is a store of value will be forced onto jewish banker controlled chains.

There is absolutely zero retail demand for "Ripple".  No random joes off the street are opening Coinbase accounts to buy Ripple.  The Ripple rise is entirely central banker orchestrated and they've probably been doing the same with bitcoin.  All of these garbage craptocurrencies are completely centralized anyway, so they have no purpose or fundamentals.  The only decentralized currencies on this planet are physical silver and gold. EVERYTHING digital is a scam.

The only place "wealth" exists is in the physical world, it cannot be stored in 0's and 1's or in your imagination.  Anything digital will always be an IOU that you hope someone will make good on.

[Neo_Coin]

[sirazimuth]

now yu gotta make that bubble move sideways....

[Farmer Bill]

snip

Buying and selling dash is not a taxable event for you? How is that?

Well I understood you pay captial gains when there is a fiat gain in value at the time when you dispose it, ie sell it for fiat. I'm in the UK. I hope I got that right. If I have to proof every single trade between Dash and Bitcoin or whatever other crypto I don't know how on earth I could even start to do that   Some exchanges I have used no longer even exist.

I sympathise, in UK too. 

Since HMRC advice is so sketchy (it goes back to a vague 2014 reference effectively saying 'we will treat it all on a case-by-case basis') we are in the dark.

I only cash out in BTC and only (originally) went in via BTC so, I am asking my accountant to simply list all fiat 'in' events and fiat 'out' events and hoping it will be just CGT.  But be aware they can see it as 'badge of trade' and charge as though it was income if they think you're a trader.

I am hoping if I cough up CGT and list only Bitcoin bought and sold and just pay up, they will accept it.

If not, I will find others here in the same position and suggest we club together to get a QC to fight HMRC - as paying 45% income tax will be too much to let pass.

I know you and I have different 'cryptos of choice' but we may end up in the same expensive boat, under the same threat of a massive tax bill.

Odds on they will just take the CGT, but if not...  Let's consider a fight - I think we can probably both afford to chip in for a legal case with others, which they won't have the staff or competence to want to bother with.

Sometimes Dashheads and Moneroans can perhaps find common cause ;-)

I was reading about an ultrapreneur tax that is flat 10%, you may need to pass a few ticks and go through some hoops in the year before to meet the conditions.

That, I think - is if you sell your business off completely, that is to protect people retiring who have one business and want to cash out (after paying tax on the profits along the way).

If you trade cypto 'as a business' you will pay tax up to 45% on profits made.  Then you 'could' sell the business and get 'entrepeneur's relief'

So unless you have found a way my accountant and I have not - I don't think it's possible.  I wish!

Just had a meeting with my accountant today.
If your sales exceed 4 times CGT allowance ie 4X £11,100 £44,400 ye 2016 then even if your gain is under the annual allowance and no CGT is payable you still have to submit every single transaction. FFS.

Exceptions are sales reinvested same day and sales bought back up to 30 days later.
The transactions must be matched up, the paperwork involved is the stuff of nightmares.

As you say if trading is your business it's treated as income and is subject to income tax top tax rate 40% plus NI at 9% then 2% above £45k.

Yet if BTC collapsed and you wanted to offset the losses against your other capital gains, HMRC would suddenly declare BTC trading as a highly risky enterprise like gambling where no taxes are payable on wins or reliefs on losses.

[d_eddie]

There is absolutely zero retail demand for "Ripple".  No random joes off the street are opening Coinbase accounts to buy Ripple.

I see you can be right too at times. It's a good sign. Happy 2018!