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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26371856 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (174 posts by 3 users with 9 merit deleted.)
BlindMayorBitcorn
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December 26, 2017, 10:10:34 PM

...I can't begin to describe what I just read...

Dude. I don't like ignoring people, but holy shit man... You're really testing my patience with your constant BCH shilling.

I reckon it might be time for you to fuck off, all proper-like, along with some of these other shills that are crapping up this thread.

I was going to start refuting your "because-I-said-so" counterpoints, but just had to spew out this verbal diarrhea of disapproval because I'm just shellshocked at the stupidity I've just read from you.

Christ man. What the fuck are you even doing here ?

I like jbreher's posts. Without his posts we would have nothing but BTC cheerleaders here.

Says the BCH cheerleader.

I'm really trying to stay apolitical, but I'm at a total loss with jbreher. It's like that guy in Florida that insisted on eating his own face. I just can't even.
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d_eddie
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December 26, 2017, 10:10:58 PM

- BCH doesn't fix transaction malleabilty,
Transaction malleability is not a problem in practice. Any of its effects are easily mitigated.

FWIW, though, the majority opinion within the Bitcoin Cash community is that we will implement a malleability fix. When higher priority issues are in the rearview.
ruling out L2 solutions
No. While it is true that eliminating malleability simplifies known L2 solutions, in no way prevents them.
Preventing them to the point of making them too hard to implement reliably - at least, as of now. If the emergency situation grants hurrying to hardfork a blocksize change, why not fix transaction malleability first?


which are the scaling solution in the medium (possibly long) term.
Perhaps. Though I point out that any transaction on any known L2 is by definition not a Bitcoin transaction. Accordingly, less interesting.

Any L2 solution proven in practice -- including being free of negative side effects -- is likely to be picked up by the Bitcoin Cash chain.
Less interesting, but isn't the point about functionality rather than academic interest?

- BCH is controlled by a cartel.
No more so than Bitcoin Segwit. Less so in fact. Six independent leading implementations of non-mining, fully validating wallets (often mis referred to as 'nodes') as opposed to Bitcoin Segwit's Core implementation's market dominance.
Offhand innuendo, pff. The attitude behind this reply is one of the reasons I got tired of replying.  I am referring to the number of active developers (not just the ones with commit rights!). The fact that one client is more popular on the main bitcoin fork doesn't mean it's controlled by a cartel. Open source development and free client choice produced this result.

Their coders are clueless.
Again, simply false.
To me, the mess they made with the fork and the EDA is the mark of incompetence. If it weren't for some of the Core developers, I imagine they would still be there trying to figure out "why the hell doesn't it work, hurr durr?"

The cartel is likely under the heavy hand of PBOC.
Again, no more so than Bitcoin Segwit. The miner population is identical between the two chains.
Another prime example of offhand innuendo in my probably biased opinion - and, most importantly, factually incorrect for all I know. Nearly all miners for BCH are in China. Jihan is a Chinese citizen who no doubt is scared shitless of the Gubment and its appendices (like PBOC). Jihan can shut off the whole merry-go-round at the touch of a button - by just restraining his support (like "miner hardware shall only be paid in BCH from now on") or by whispering a few nice words to select clients (big miners). All it takes is the Party to make him an offer he can't refuse.


to gain control.
What exactly do you mean by this?
I mean taking control of Bitcoin by replacing it with Bcash. By doing so, developers would be under Jihan's, Ver's (and PBOC's) thumb. Censorship can happen. Moderate (or unreasonable!) inflation can be programmed as a "fair reward" for miners (most likely friends of the Party), who would become something like a miniature Central Bank, with similar privileges and arbitrary power. Anything can be perpetrated easily, if full nodes become so few as to be irrelevant.

- Big blocks will stifle adoption.
If you believe that the measure of adoption is number of non-mining, fully-validating wallets, then you may have a point. However, it has been demonstrated to my satisfaction that non-mining, fully-validating wallets have fuck-all to do with network health.
It hasn't been demonstrated to my satisfaction, though. Some things show their value only when they are sorely missed. Full nodes are one of these things IMO.


Further, I believe it likely that massive adoption will lead to huge numbers of nodes - naturally. Every common consumer has little reason to run such a non-mining, fully-validating wallet.
Depends how much they're holding, and how much they care about rules that preserve the system their wealth depends upon.

You know who does? Merchants who have a need to verify that their purchasers are actually broadcasting valid transactions for the goods and services they are purchasing.
Right, they do too.

Yes, that's the old "Raspberry pi in rural Afghanistan" argument. Even I, not in rural Afghanistan, would stop my own homespun node (not a pi though) if pressed by bandwidth and storage limits.
Testing has demonstrated that an average 'home computer' on an average 'domestic broadband' connection can handle up to 100 tx/s with no architectural changes to the satoshi client, and 500 tx/s merely by fixing that client's broken threading implementation.
My bandwidth can't. Even in "civilized" nations, some areas can't devote all that bandwidth to a single household - if such significant bandwidth is there in the first place.


"Be your own bank" implies the ability to run your own full verifying node.
Well, no. It most certainly does not. At least I can't see any prerequisite there. How do you figure?
See the point above, before "merchants".


- More adoption will come when we have a scalable system. Big blocks aren't scalable.
Big blocks -- by definition -- are scalable.
The number of bytes per se is scalable, of course. It's the resulting solution that doesn't scale well.


Yeah. We've already discussed these very points, have we not? Why you continue to ignore my replies is beyond my ken.
Not ignoring, but I feel stuck in a loop and it's bad for my health!  Tongue
ragnar0k
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December 26, 2017, 10:12:03 PM

along with some of these other shills that are crapping up this thread.
I second that!
for BCH shills to even start making a point they should have a whole new code (like eth) and not fork out the code they hate so much. they changed two lines and sing revolution, its just plain annoying. Plus the horde of fudders that come here during every dip makes reading the WO a double pain instead of a place to strenghten  hodl
luckygenough56
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December 26, 2017, 10:14:11 PM


I like jbreher's posts. Without his posts we would have nothing but BTC cheerleaders here.

That’s like saying I love the big fat hairy guy in the corner of the strip club. If it wasn’t for him there would be just amazing tits and ass.



You know nothing about life dude. Life is a matter of contrasts. Beauty doesn't exist without ugly. Smart doesn't exist without stupid. World would be the most boring place if everybody would be or think the same. Be glad for the hairy guy Smiley
d_eddie
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December 26, 2017, 10:17:17 PM


I like jbreher's posts. Without his posts we would have nothing but BTC cheerleaders here.

That’s like saying I love the big fat hairy guy in the corner of the strip club. If it wasn’t for him there would be just amazing tits and ass.



You know nothing about life dude. Life is a matter of contrasts. Beauty doesn't exist without ugly. Smart doesn't exist without stupid. World would be the most boring place if everybody would be or think the same. Be glad for the hairy guy Smiley
OK, you take the hairy guy then. I'll go for dumb, boring prime T&A.
luckygenough56
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December 26, 2017, 10:19:23 PM



Permabulls hanging out. It's funny...because bears Smiley
gentlemand
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December 26, 2017, 10:19:57 PM

I'm really trying to stay apolitical, but I'm at a total loss with jbreher. It's like that guy in Florida that insisted on eating his own face. I just can't even.

Some valid points and concerns but boy are they glued to the wrong horse.
El duderino_
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December 26, 2017, 10:21:31 PM

Breaking 24777$ prediction game      FINAL LIST       

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MERRY XMAS TO Y'ALL     AND GOOD LUCK
True Myth
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December 26, 2017, 10:22:26 PM

along with some of these other shills that are crapping up this thread.
I second that!
for BCH shills to even start making a point they should have a whole new code (like eth) and not fork out the code they hate so much. they changed two lines and sing revolution, its just plain annoying. Plus the horde of fudders that come here during every dip makes reading the WO a double pain instead of a place to strenghten  hodl

Catching up on posts in this thread takes much longer with the block size debates on going...  Maybe we should all just communicate in memes? Much easier to skim through to the most recent post that way.  Tongue
True Myth
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December 26, 2017, 10:24:08 PM


I like jbreher's posts. Without his posts we would have nothing but BTC cheerleaders here.

That’s like saying I love the big fat hairy guy in the corner of the strip club. If it wasn’t for him there would be just amazing tits and ass.



You know nothing about life dude. Life is a matter of contrasts. Beauty doesn't exist without ugly. Smart doesn't exist without stupid. World would be the most boring place if everybody would be or think the same. Be glad for the hairy guy Smiley

That's what the one slightly over weight middle aged stripper with a c section scar is for.  There is always one...
d_eddie
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December 26, 2017, 10:24:27 PM

I'm really trying to stay apolitical, but I'm at a total loss with jbreher. It's like that guy in Florida that insisted on eating his own face. I just can't even.

Some valid points and concerns but boy are they glued to the wrong horse.
That's the way I see it too - and the reason why sometimes I do bother to write a detailed, articulated, civil reply. But still the exact mechanism of picking the wrong horse escapes me. It must be pretty dark in that barn.
strawbs
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December 26, 2017, 10:26:50 PM

along with some of these other shills that are crapping up this thread.
I second that!
for BCH shills to even start making a point they should have a whole new code (like eth) and not fork out the code they hate so much. they changed two lines and sing revolution, its just plain annoying. Plus the horde of fudders that come here during every dip makes reading the WO a double pain instead of a place to strenghten  hodl

Catching up on posts in this thread takes much longer with the block size debates on going...  Maybe we should all just communicate in memes? Much easier to skim through to the most recent post that way.  Tongue

Agreed. Sooooo bored of block size debates. zzzzzzzzz
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December 26, 2017, 10:31:34 PM


Wow:  https://bitcoinist.com/lightning-network-mainnet-beta-soon/
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December 26, 2017, 10:38:00 PM

Dankjewel voor alle tijd en moeite micgoossens,
Betaal je de prijs uit je eigen zak?
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December 26, 2017, 10:39:20 PM

Further, I believe it likely that massive adoption will lead to huge numbers of nodes - naturally. Every common consumer has little reason to run such a non-mining, fully-validating wallet.

But I want to run a full node, and with huge blocks I don't even have a choice.
(SPV is a middle ground but not sufficient)
You are forcing me to trust someone.
In fact you are forcing me to trust the miners who are driven by incentives that do not align with my own.
In the future they may change the rules and I wouldn't even know, and if I did know, there would be little I could do to about it.

This myth that non-mining nodes don't matter is the most dangerous the big blockers are forced to peddle, simply because  it drops out of the big block argument as a necessity.
The ability to run a full validating node is not optional, it is a requirement, and any fork that prevents this functionality fails the community.

We must not compromise the security of Bitcoin to help it scale.
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December 26, 2017, 10:41:28 PM

During this discussion time... Cheesy Cheesy

https://bitcoinist.com/bitcoin-price-leaves-earth-16k/

BlindMayorBitcorn
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December 26, 2017, 10:46:39 PM

A clickable picture? This changes everything!
Peter R
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December 26, 2017, 10:50:45 PM

Further, I believe it likely that massive adoption will lead to huge numbers of nodes - naturally. Every common consumer has little reason to run such a non-mining, fully-validating wallet.

But I want to run a full node, and with huge blocks I don't even have a choice.
(SPV is a middle ground but not sufficient)
You are forcing me to trust someone.
In fact you are forcing me to trust the miners who are driven by incentives that do not align with my own.
In the future they may change the rules and I wouldn't even know, and if I did know, there would be little I could do to about it.

This myth that non-mining nodes don't matter is the most dangerous the big blockers are forced to peddle, simply because  it drops out of the big block argument as a necessity.
The ability to run a full validating node is not optional, it is a requirement, and any fork that prevents this functionality fails the community.

We must not compromise the security of Bitcoin to help it scale.



Bitcoin has never been trustless.  If you're using Bitcoin, you already trust that no group of colluding attackers controls more hash power than honest nodes.  If the hash power majority is colluding to defraud users, bitcoin is not secure.  This is simply a fact.  There is nothing an army of raspberry-pi nodes can do to change this fact.  Fortunately, a hash-power-majority attacker "ought to find it more profitable to play by the rules, such rules that favour him with more new coins than everyone else combined, than to undermine the system and the validity of his own wealth."
 
BlindMayorBitcorn
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December 26, 2017, 10:51:08 PM

Right on cue. Roll Eyes
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December 26, 2017, 10:55:07 PM

LN feels like ripple

Does the blockchain still have a purpose with LN on ? Educate me !
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