JayJuanGee
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Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"
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January 03, 2018, 01:52:31 AM |
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But yeah, ignore the troll. Ignore me too. I'm used to hostility on this thread
FUCK Off!!!I'm performing a "hostility" mic check.... check.... check... ![Cheesy](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif) did it work?
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TERA2
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Deb Rah Von Doom
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January 03, 2018, 01:54:27 AM |
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The quality of this thread right now: ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fimg-aws.ehowcdn.com%2F750x428p%2Fphotos.demandstudios.com%2Fgetty%2Farticle%2F148%2F98%2F87481877_XS.jpg&t=665&c=RJA8ljamJQOBFQ)
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realr0ach
Sr. Member
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#TheGoyimKnow
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January 03, 2018, 01:57:04 AM |
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Roach has some valid points
Also as per recent comments a few pages back. Lightning Network, I have also concluded is a banking layer plonked on top of bitcoin.
Ignoring this is akin to putting your head in the sand like an ostrich.
People pretend that I'm making this up, but it's the only possible conclusion that can come out of Lightning Network. The only question is if Blockstream is in on the scam or if they're delusional and don't know it's going to happen. Repaste of why LN will be a trojan horse: Do you actually know what LN is? I'll tell you what it is. LN is nothing more than establishing bitcoin banks on top of the blockchain. All of the exact same regulation traditional banks have will be applied to them and bitcoin will be virtually identical to your current banking system. The only reason it hasn't happened yet is because it's too difficult for them to play whack-a-mole with regulating miners, but the LN "nodes" aka banks are less ambiguous in nature and will be regulated to infinity just like any normal financial services provider or bank.
The costs, compliance, and amount of lawyers needed will be so high only entities like JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs will run them. This is how crony capitalism works. You introduce regulation with compliance requirements and fees so high that only your existing monopoly can participate while all small competitors are eliminated.
Nevermind the fact LN doesn't function in a decentralized manner in the first place. There is also ZERO incentive for LN nodes aka banks to broadcast transactions to external peers. There is actually incentive for these bitcoin banks to FORCE a hub and spoke model or cartel collective in order to hold their users hostage for usury fees (just like regular banks do). There's also nothing that stops them from changing usage of bitcoin as settlement to ripple, US dollars, or anything else.
LN is an unworkable train wreck without putting all channel closings in the same common permissioned queue (meaning completely centralized). The fact these systems are built around a finite block size means humans can easily attack that bottleneck by flooding it with channel closings. Since it can be flooded, you're required to buffer them and either discard low payers or put them at the back of the line just like regular bitcoin mempool.
From that point, you either have to design as a hub and spoke model just like what Mike Hearn claimed, where the Lightning node is a bitcoin bank and everyone who uses it is their peon slaves to extract usury upon, or every lightning node broadcasts a shared queue with each other. But due to the fact that people can try to flood the queue as mentioned earlier, each lightning node will have their own criteria for what is or isn't spam, or who is and isn't a terrorist that they will broadcast to other nodes (meaningly INSANELY PERMISSIONED, cartel coordinated, and usury based). The nodes might also be incentivized NOT to broadcast and force a hub and spoke model for their own gain.
If a Lightning node constantly broadcasts flood bullshit to everyone, they will likely be blacklisted by other Lightning nodes (lightning banks, whatever you want to call them), so the entire system is based around things like trusted and untrusted members, subjective anti-spam filters, etc. In other words, for Lightning to work at all, it would probably be the most permissioned centralized piece of garbage ever to exist. No real difference from having an account at Bank of America, and ironcially, the govt will likely legislate who is and isn't allowed to run these Lightning nodes, meaning Bank of America or Goldman Sachs will run them.
At least this is my understanding of the problems one has to overcome to create such system. The fact bitcoin is not decentralized and it's impossible to create a decentralized digital currency in the first place, also means anyone claiming Lightning is going to be "decentralized" is a complete idiot when it's built on top of bitcoin.
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ragnar0k
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January 03, 2018, 02:02:13 AM |
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Roach has some valid points
It takes energy to extract gold and silver, from burning fossil fuels. Peak oil also = peak gold and silver you can't magic it out the ground without expending the work. 'Proof or work' in bitcoin was based on that principle. There is no magic surplus going to arrive from outer space. Also as per recent comments a few pages back. Lightning Network, I have also concluded is a banking layer plonked on top of bitcoin.
Ignoring this is akin to putting your head in the sand like an ostrich. But yeah, ignore the troll. Ignore me too. I'm used to hostility on this thread
That is because you guys talk nonsense. First of all we are going into space soon https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/08/boeing-says-it-will-beat-spacex-to-mars-elon-musk-responds-do-it.html. Once we get there, making a 'mining' ship is just easy. -Gold/Silver density will be higher in certain areas of space compared to earth, making mining a lot easier -Sun energy could be harvested since they will be closer to the sun to extract gold -Low gravity will make the extraction process probably a lot easier But you must consider that at the time you have access to more resources, the value will deflate instantly, this is why you ain't going to see any mining spaceships anytime soon, unless it is for valuable matherials (lithium?Oil?)
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ragnar0k
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January 03, 2018, 02:06:36 AM |
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The quality of this thread right now: ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fimg-aws.ehowcdn.com%2F750x428p%2Fphotos.demandstudios.com%2Fgetty%2Farticle%2F148%2F98%2F87481877_XS.jpg&t=665&c=RJA8ljamJQOBFQ) Make another failed prediction to make the thread shine again
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TERA2
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Deb Rah Von Doom
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January 03, 2018, 02:09:34 AM |
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Make another failed prediction to make the thread shine again
Another fake Satoshi is presented
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ragnar0k
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January 03, 2018, 02:13:39 AM |
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Make another failed prediction to make the thread shine again
Another fake Satoshi is presented Got enough of those! We need predictions! Give me one (roughly) right of the price by end of this week (Sun) and I'll stop nagging you
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windjc
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January 03, 2018, 02:16:34 AM |
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I just sent my first BCH transaction and its now over 30 minutes and there is no confirmation. What the F? Are there no nodes to validate?
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404Revolution
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Not Found
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January 03, 2018, 02:18:56 AM |
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Those who publically ignore instead of refute are weak.
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smartcomet
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January 03, 2018, 02:19:10 AM |
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look the weekly chart of BTC/USD at Bitstamp, it is in the third week consolidation. Maybe infour weeks, we can see the ATH again.
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windjc
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January 03, 2018, 02:20:36 AM |
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Those who publically ignore instead of refute are weak.
Ignored. ![Cheesy](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cheesy.gif)
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Toxic2040
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January 03, 2018, 02:21:48 AM Last edit: January 03, 2018, 02:36:22 AM by Toxic2040 |
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Roach...fuck off...what ever..
-snip- Your so last century dude...keep up or get out. All interplanetary travel will be via magnetic plasma sails. And I concede that your probably right..mining and transporting raw materials from space down a gravity well is to difficult to be economically viable. Unless a space elevator or other such tech happens. Set off nuclear ordanance? Why ever for? Light sails, ion engines, gravity tethers..there are ways to easily and cheaply alter the orbits of noteworthy objects with zero muss or fuss. The plasma magnet sail engine is little more than 2 pairs of charged rotating coils and is therefore extremely simple and inexpensive. A fully powered plasma magnet sail using a small nuclear power source could accelerate at 0.5G and reach 400-700 km/sec (0.2% of lightspeed) in half a day. A stream of charged particles could be generated from Phobos or Demos to slow the Plasma magnet sail to Mars. If you were slowing a 100-ton manned spacecraft, then you would need to produce 100,000 tons of particles. There would need to be multi-megawatt plant on the moons of Mars. It is possible to scale up for manned missions and to stop the craft. Neptune has a large enough magnetosphere where a plasma magnet sail could stop by decelerating at 5Gs. It would be a 4-month mission to Neptune a 10 KW system could slow an interstellar spacecraft from 20% of lightspeed over 2 years. Interstellar missions could then explore the target solar system.
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vapourminer
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what is this "brake pedal" you speak of?
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January 03, 2018, 02:25:59 AM |
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You bitcoin shill bugmen really are clueless about metals. -snip-
Wake up man..you missed the future..its here. 16 Psyche is located in the large asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter. It is a 130 mile (200km) wide chunk of metal, made up of iron, nickel and a number of other rare metals, including gold, platinum and copper. If the asteroid could be transported back to Earth, the iron alone would be worth $10,000 quadrillion (£8,072 quadrillion). could work until they miscalculate the trajectory (or a guidance malfunction) and instead of going into earth orbit to be mined, it crashes into roaches house. whoops. roach will, however then be extremely rich and will post meme after meme about how he was right.
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HairyMaclairy
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Degenerate bull hatter & Bitcoin monotheist
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January 03, 2018, 02:39:03 AM |
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Nice bit of consolidation around $14,800 currently.
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infofront (OP)
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Shitcoin Minimalist
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January 03, 2018, 02:45:08 AM |
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Roach has some valid points
It takes energy to extract gold and silver, from burning fossil fuels. Peak oil also = peak gold and silver you can't magic it out the ground without expending the work. 'Proof or work' in bitcoin was based on that principle. There is no magic surplus going to arrive from outer space. Also as per recent comments a few pages back. Lightning Network, I have also concluded is a banking layer plonked on top of bitcoin.
Ignoring this is akin to putting your head in the sand like an ostrich. But yeah, ignore the troll. Ignore me too. I'm used to hostility on this thread
No one will be forced to use the lightning network. LN will reduced blockchain bloat and lower fees, even for the people who will never use it.
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jojo69
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diamond-handed zealot
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January 03, 2018, 02:45:59 AM |
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Neo_Coin
Sr. Member
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"Be Your Own Bank"
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January 03, 2018, 02:46:36 AM |
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Paashaas
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January 03, 2018, 02:54:43 AM |
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Roach has some valid points
It takes energy to extract gold and silver, from burning fossil fuels. Peak oil also = peak gold and silver you can't magic it out the ground without expending the work. 'Proof or work' in bitcoin was based on that principle. There is no magic surplus going to arrive from outer space. Also as per recent comments a few pages back. Lightning Network, I have also concluded is a banking layer plonked on top of bitcoin.
Ignoring this is akin to putting your head in the sand like an ostrich. But yeah, ignore the troll. Ignore me too. I'm used to hostility on this thread
Because you're a Bcash supporter and Bcashers are always full of bullshit. Why do you think everybody hates Roger, i dont see people bashing Monero etc.
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Neo_Coin
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"Be Your Own Bank"
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January 03, 2018, 02:55:37 AM |
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.. No one will be forced to use the lightning network. LN will reduced blockchain bloat and lower fees, even for the people who will never use it.
Right
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Searing
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Clueless!
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January 03, 2018, 02:55:53 AM |
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Sweet, just ordered 2 more, Thanks just ordered one
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