Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Icygreen]

....

SWEET DEAL on Trezor here: 89 Euros / 99 USD  https://shop.trezor.io/?a=coinok  They accept BTC.

Or faster shipping from www.amazon.com

Sweet, just ordered 2 more, Thanks

[goggles]

I think bitcoin is going up today because of the air drop tonight. Of course noobs see price go up and buy more beecash.

[cAPSLOCK]

I've been trying to get my dad to buy bitcoins since the price was $2. He just called me tonight and said he wants to buy some. Not a good sign.

 Just make sure to teach him how the wallet works and have patience with him; last thing you want is for him to lose the coins.

I'm doing it for him. He doesn't even know how to hold a mouse properly.

Soon people will begin to realize this is an even more important reason for L2 development than the blocksize issue.

I remember chuckling when this thread got into the bitcoin opsec rabbithole a few dozen pages back.  I mean we were talking about different kinds of concrete to bury your 2 of three seed parts in. Heh.

L2 won't take away our ability to "be our own bank".  But it will make ways for people who have no business trying to do that to also use bitcoin.

They gain value...

...and so do we.

[realr0ach]

Roach...fuck off...what ever..

You mad because I debunked your lie claiming that people are going to be mining gold and silver on other planets in the near future with enormous on-board fusion powered spacecraft?  If you can provide a picture of one of these supposed spacecraft that would probably need to be orders of magnitude larger than any spacecraft ever built so far, I'll be happy to apologize for calling you a liar and/or shill.  Or was the plan to send up a tiny unmanned probe, have the probe set off nuclear bombs and alter the trajectory of the giant asteroid, sending it crashing into earth and causing an extinction level event just so you can get some iron that was in it?

[afbitcoins]

Roach has some valid points

It takes energy to extract gold and silver, from burning fossil fuels. Peak oil also = peak gold and silver you can't magic it out the ground without expending the work.  'Proof or work' in bitcoin was based on that principle. There is no magic surplus going to arrive from outer space.
  
Also as per recent comments a few pages back. Lightning Network, I have also concluded is a banking layer plonked on top of bitcoin.

Ignoring this is akin to putting your head in the sand like an ostrich. But yeah, ignore the troll. Ignore me too. I'm used to hostility on this thread

[JayJuanGee]

But yeah, ignore the troll. Ignore me too. I'm used to hostility on this thread

FUCK Off!!!














I'm performing a "hostility" mic check....


check....  check...


 




did it work?

[TERA2]

The quality of this thread right now:

[realr0ach]

Roach has some valid points

Also as per recent comments a few pages back. Lightning Network, I have also concluded is a banking layer plonked on top of bitcoin.

Ignoring this is akin to putting your head in the sand like an ostrich.

People pretend that I'm making this up, but it's the only possible conclusion that can come out of Lightning Network.  The only question is if Blockstream is in on the scam or if they're delusional and don't know it's going to happen. Repaste of why LN will be a trojan horse:

Do you actually know what LN is?  I'll tell you what it is.  LN is nothing more than establishing bitcoin banks on top of the blockchain.  All of the exact same regulation traditional banks have will be applied to them and bitcoin will be virtually identical to your current banking system.  The only reason it hasn't happened yet is because it's too difficult for them to play whack-a-mole with regulating miners, but the LN "nodes" aka banks are less ambiguous in nature and will be regulated to infinity just like any normal financial services provider or bank.  

The costs, compliance, and amount of lawyers needed will be so high only entities like JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs will run them.  This is how crony capitalism works.  You introduce regulation with compliance requirements and fees so high that only your existing monopoly can participate while all small competitors are eliminated.

Nevermind the fact LN doesn't function in a decentralized manner in the first place.  There is also ZERO incentive for LN nodes aka banks to broadcast transactions to external peers.  There is actually incentive for these bitcoin banks to FORCE a hub and spoke model or cartel collective in order to hold their users hostage for usury fees (just like regular banks do). There's also nothing that stops them from changing usage of bitcoin as settlement to ripple, US dollars, or anything else.

LN is an unworkable train wreck without putting all channel closings in the same common permissioned queue (meaning completely centralized).  The fact these systems are built around a finite block size means humans can easily attack that bottleneck by flooding it with channel closings.  Since it can be flooded, you're required to buffer them and either discard low payers or put them at the back of the line just like regular bitcoin mempool.

From that point, you either have to design as a hub and spoke model just like what Mike Hearn claimed, where the Lightning node is a bitcoin bank and everyone who uses it is their peon slaves to extract usury upon, or every lightning node broadcasts a shared queue with each other.  But due to the fact that people can try to flood the queue as mentioned earlier, each lightning node will have their own criteria for what is or isn't spam, or who is and isn't a terrorist that they will broadcast to other nodes (meaningly INSANELY PERMISSIONED, cartel coordinated, and usury based).  The nodes might also be incentivized NOT to broadcast and force a hub and spoke model for their own gain.

If a Lightning node constantly broadcasts flood bullshit to everyone, they will likely be blacklisted by other Lightning nodes (lightning banks, whatever you want to call them), so the entire system is based around things like trusted and untrusted members, subjective anti-spam filters, etc.  In other words, for Lightning to work at all, it would probably be the most permissioned centralized piece of garbage ever to exist.  No real difference from having an account at Bank of America, and ironcially, the govt will likely legislate who is and isn't allowed to run these Lightning nodes, meaning Bank of America or Goldman Sachs will run them.

At least this is my understanding of the problems one has to overcome to create such system.  The fact bitcoin is not decentralized and it's impossible to create a decentralized digital currency in the first place, also means anyone claiming Lightning is going to be "decentralized" is a complete idiot when it's built on top of bitcoin.

[ragnar0k]

Roach has some valid points

It takes energy to extract gold and silver, from burning fossil fuels. Peak oil also = peak gold and silver you can't magic it out the ground without expending the work.  'Proof or work' in bitcoin was based on that principle. There is no magic surplus going to arrive from outer space.
  
Also as per recent comments a few pages back. Lightning Network, I have also concluded is a banking layer plonked on top of bitcoin.

Ignoring this is akin to putting your head in the sand like an ostrich. But yeah, ignore the troll. Ignore me too. I'm used to hostility on this thread

That is because you guys talk nonsense. First of all we are going into space soon https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/08/boeing-says-it-will-beat-spacex-to-mars-elon-musk-responds-do-it.html. Once we get there, making a 'mining' ship is just easy.
-Gold/Silver density will be higher in certain areas of space compared to earth, making mining a lot easier
-Sun energy could be harvested since they will be closer to the sun to extract gold
-Low gravity will make the extraction process probably a lot easier

But you must consider that at the time you have access to more resources, the value will deflate instantly, this is why you ain't going to see any mining spaceships anytime soon, unless it is for valuable matherials (lithium?Oil?)

[ragnar0k]

The quality of this thread right now:

Make another failed prediction to make the thread shine again

[TERA2]

Make another failed prediction to make the thread shine again

Another fake Satoshi is presented

[ragnar0k]

Make another failed prediction to make the thread shine again

Another fake Satoshi is presented

Got enough of those! We need predictions! Give me one (roughly) right of the price by end of this week (Sun) and I'll stop nagging you

[windjc]

I just sent my first BCH transaction and its now over 30 minutes and there is no confirmation. What the F? Are there no nodes to validate?

[404Revolution]

Those who publically ignore instead of refute are weak.

[smartcomet]

look the weekly chart of BTC/USD at Bitstamp, it is in the third week consolidation. Maybe infour weeks, we can see the ATH again.

[windjc]

Those who publically ignore instead of refute are weak.

Ignored.

[Toxic2040]

Roach...fuck off...what ever..

-snip-

Your so last century dude...keep up or get out.

All interplanetary travel will be via magnetic plasma sails. And I concede that your probably right..mining and transporting raw materials from space down a gravity well is to difficult to be economically viable. Unless a space elevator or other such tech happens. Set off nuclear ordanance? Why ever for? Light sails, ion engines, gravity tethers..there are ways to easily and cheaply alter the orbits of noteworthy objects with zero muss or fuss.

The plasma magnet sail engine is little more than 2 pairs of charged rotating coils and is therefore extremely simple and inexpensive. A fully powered plasma magnet sail using a small nuclear power source could accelerate at 0.5G and reach 400-700 km/sec (0.2% of lightspeed) in half a day.
A stream of charged particles could be generated from Phobos or Demos to slow the Plasma magnet sail to Mars. If you were slowing a 100-ton manned spacecraft, then you would need to produce 100,000 tons of particles. There would need to be multi-megawatt plant on the moons of Mars. It is possible to scale up for manned missions and to stop the craft.
 Neptune has a large enough magnetosphere where a plasma magnet sail could stop by decelerating at 5Gs. It would be a 4-month mission to Neptune
 a 10 KW system could slow an interstellar spacecraft from 20% of lightspeed over 2 years. Interstellar missions could then explore the target solar system.

[vapourminer]

You bitcoin shill bugmen really are clueless about metals.  -snip-  

Wake up man..you missed the future..its here.

16 Psyche is located in the large asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter. It is a 130 mile (200km) wide chunk of metal, made up of iron, nickel and a number of other rare metals, including gold, platinum and copper. If the asteroid could be transported back to Earth, the iron alone would be worth $10,000 quadrillion (£8,072 quadrillion).

could work until they miscalculate the trajectory (or a guidance malfunction) and instead of going into earth orbit to be mined, it crashes into roaches house. whoops. roach will, however then be extremely rich and will post meme after meme about how he was right.

[HairyMaclairy]

 Nice bit of consolidation around $14,800 currently.

[infofront]

Roach has some valid points

It takes energy to extract gold and silver, from burning fossil fuels. Peak oil also = peak gold and silver you can't magic it out the ground without expending the work.  'Proof or work' in bitcoin was based on that principle. There is no magic surplus going to arrive from outer space.
  
Also as per recent comments a few pages back. Lightning Network, I have also concluded is a banking layer plonked on top of bitcoin.

Ignoring this is akin to putting your head in the sand like an ostrich. But yeah, ignore the troll. Ignore me too. I'm used to hostility on this thread

No one will be forced to use the lightning network. LN will reduced blockchain bloat and lower fees, even for the people who will never use it.