Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[jbreher]

What I am asserting remains what I have been asserting all along. I am asserting that these properties are endemic to Segwit. Period.

O.k.  You are asserting a theory.

No. I am not asserting a theory. I am asserting fact. Not theory. Fact. Segwit's separation of Bitcoin into three distinct classes is a readily-observable fact.

You really have a problem with basic definitions here.

[jbreher]

The evidence is already given. Segwit creates a triple-classed asset. And that this is by definition a lack of fungibility.

I will pay you 10% under market for all your segwit tainted coins.

Might need to do it in batches.

No?

Thanks for the (disingenuous) offer, but I don't have any Segwit tainted coins.

[jbreher]

Just realized that Bitcoin's hash rate is up +100% since January 2018 and around +25% since May as well as +15% from two weeks ago.

That's a nice hashrate miners. Those are some nice ASICs.

It would be shame if someone...

changed...

the algorithm.

Indeed. Changing the algorithm would be stupidity of the first order. See Bitcoin Gold, et al, for the logical conclusion of that path. No good can come from jettisoning Billions of $USD worth of dedicated security appliances. The idea itself is being floated by economic ignoramuses.

[ccminer.net]

Nice price movement, volumes up and price up as well!
Hope it will keeps like this for few weeks

[Last of the V8s]

*ignorami

[gembitz]

What I am asserting remains what I have been asserting all along. I am asserting that these properties are endemic to Segwit. Period.

O.k.  You are asserting a theory.

No. I am not asserting a theory. I am asserting fact. Not theory. Fact. Segwit's separation of Bitcoin into three distinct classes is a readily-observable fact.

You really have a problem with basic definitions here.

Segwit is bitcoin if you don't like it make your own shitcoin lol ..hehe

[Totscha]

Are we going back to the $7000 levels this week?

The word possibly comes to mind. But I wouldn't bet on it.

[mOgliE]

Are we going back to the $7000 levels this week?

The word possibly comes to mind. But I wouldn't bet on it.

If it does you might consider selling at 7k to buy back after we fall again at 6k!
I don't see why price would rise now. It's not like people are getting back trust in btc right now!

Or did I miss something major? xD

[cAPSLOCK]

The evidence is already given. Segwit creates a triple-classed asset. And that this is by definition a lack of fungibility.

I will pay you 10% under market for all your segwit tainted coins.

Might need to do it in batches.

No?

Thanks for the (disingenuous) offer, but I don't have any Segwit tainted coins.

Not disingenuous.  I would buy every single last satoshi.  Too bad for me you have none to sell.  But I am glad for you that the coins you have you perceive to be more valuable than ones that have touched segwit addresses.

I see the idea that segwit is harming fungibility as being equivalent to the letter above the left serial number on US treasury notes damaging the fungibility of USD.  Unless some sort of segwit Armageddon comes (as I understand you believe is possible) it will be a laughably insignificant percentage of users who give a frack whether their bitcoin has ever touched an address starting with a 3.

In fact, talking about bitcoin fungibility and taint and worrying about segwit is silly.  Bitcoin is already not very fungible. The fact the ledger is public, transparant and you can view the history of each satoshi brings fungibility down quite a bit.  Businesses have blacklisted coins or customers based onthe history of coin transactions.  This is MUCH MUCH more worrysome to fungibility in my opinion than nutters who won't take coins because they've been on a segwit address.  

I think Bitcoin's transparency is a feature, not a bug.  You have the right to refuse to accept bitcoins based on whatever rainman theory you have about them.  And I think a truly opaque and near fully fungible token can reside on a blockchain built for that alongside BTC.  In fact I see this as one of the ONLY reasons for more than 1 POW blockchain to exist in the world at all. (Monero, by the way).

[bitChipper]

Are we going back to the $7000 levels this week?

The word possibly comes to mind. But I wouldn't bet on it.

Early this morning, while waking and hitting the snooze button I kept having this dream that I would look at my phone and see bitcoin at $4100...in my dream I kept thinking "no way"...

could it be an omen? am i a prophet?

criticism and jokes of my superstition are welcome, so are donations, thanks 

[Anon136]

Are we going back to the $7000 levels this week?

The word possibly comes to mind. But I wouldn't bet on it.

Early this morning, while waking and hitting the snooze button I kept having this dream that I would look at my phone and see bitcoin at $4100...in my dream I kept thinking "no way"...

could it be an omen? am i a prophet?

criticism and jokes of my superstition are welcome, so are donations, thanks  

The only omen here is the omen that you are going to die young if you don't figure out a way to get your mind on other things. You, my friend, need a vacation.

[Globb0]

In fact, talking about bitcoin fungibility and taint and worrying about segwit is silly.  Bitcoin is already not very fungible. The fact the ledger is public, transparant and you can view the history of each satoshi brings fungibility down quite a bit.  Businesses have blacklisted coins or customers based onthe history of coin transactions.

This. Blacklisting stuff I might buy then find I cant spent unless I trick the next person.

Interchangeability is fungibilty, serial numbers don't stop 10$ notes being interchangeable. But if a set of serial numbers were invalidated somehow then it could be an argument.

[bitChipper]

Are we going back to the $7000 levels this week?

The word possibly comes to mind. But I wouldn't bet on it.

Early this morning, while waking and hitting the snooze button I kept having this dream that I would look at my phone and see bitcoin at $4100...in my dream I kept thinking "no way"...

could it be an omen? am i a prophet?

criticism and jokes of my superstition are welcome, so are donations, thanks  

The only omen here is the omen that you are going to die young if you don't figure out a way to get your mind on other things. You, my friend, need a vacation.

Normally I do not fret about the price of btc, this was the first ever btc related dream i had, normally my early morning dreams are lucid or a bit....wet if ya know whata mean??

[Hueristic]

You are likely correct that there is a sliding scale when it comes to fungibility, and I think that most free market types are going to perceive the most value in bitcoin being associated with greater levels of fungibility... so yeah, you are right that lesser fungibility may maintain some value, but the amount of decrease in value may be a lot greater than what you seem to be projecting it to be.  For example if confidence is lost because coins get blacklisted, then surely that seems problematic to me if it is allowed to occur.  So if any 3rd party such as coinbase or fed government tries to label coins, then there would likely be some effort by the bitcoin community to either not use their services or to move coins to other location and clean them of their blacklisting.

I think there is an argument to be made that zero fungibility may cause an increase in value as governments would accept and regulate such a state. I can see a scenario where your address will be issued and monitored. If this becomes a future scenario then TPTB would actually cause an increase in the value as institutional investment would increase exponentially. and Ironically BTC would become the exact opposite of what it was intended yet as a side effect continue to make early adopters rich.

there it is...perfect timing

I almost gave you a congrats merit for this.

Also glad there was a screenshot as I didn't know you had laughing man avatar that alone is merit worthly.

[fluidjax]

In fact, talking about bitcoin fungibility and taint and worrying about segwit is silly.  Bitcoin is already not very fungible. The fact the ledger is public, transparant and you can view the history of each satoshi brings fungibility down quite a bit.  Businesses have blacklisted coins or customers based onthe history of coin transactions.

This. Blacklisting stuff I might buy then find I cant spent unless I trick the next person.

Interchangeability is fungibilty, serial numbers don't stop 10$ notes being interchangeable. But if a set of serial numbers were invalidated somehow then it could be an argument.

https://www.slaughterandmay.com/media/787381/the_uk_anti-money_laundering_regime_stautory_offences_and_the_role_of_the_fsa.pdf

The British Bankers’ Association Money Laundering Advisory Panel (the “BBA Panel”) raised with the Home Office their view that the requirements of the consent regime in this context cannot easily be reconciled with POCA’s wide definition of criminal property and the principle of fungibility. The BBA Panel explained their view that money in a bank account is fungible
and that as a matter of property law a bank account is a single “indistinguishable mixed fund”. Consequently, once a payment has been made into a mixed bank account, that payment cannot be distinguished from the other funds in the account and, accordingly, if the payment was a suspicious transaction the payment funds could have effectively tainted the rest of the account and, possibly, any other account held by the same individual. This would result in all subsequent transactions on the suspect accounts becoming acts of money laundering under POCA.

Looking at how the lawyers treat bank accounts with tainted money, we may have a fight ahead of us,  they may treat any BTC balances tainted with 'bad' bitcoins, as all bad.

[xhomerx10]

Miners don't need anything like $6000/BTC to remain profitable.

I'd put it closer to $2000, even lower if you take the money laundering angle into account.

 Let's try to figure this out.

 I'll assume that most of the network is made up of miners similar to the Antminer S9 running @ ~0.1 J/GH;

 Presently, it requires 45,724 kWh to produce a single Bitcoin.  One of the cheapest places in the world for electricity is Quebec, Canada and the best possible rate - class LG customers (large load and not primarily related to an industrial activity) - shows a base rate of $0.0343 per kWh plus $13.14 per kW (which works out to an additional $0.01825 /kWh based on a steady 24/7 consumption) for a total of

   $0.05255 per kWh before taxes

+ $0.0068315 per kWh tax (13% harmonized tax**)
-----------------
   $0.0593815 per kWh

 
 Multiply that by the 45,724 kWh required per Bitcoin

 CAD $2715.1597 which means the electricity costs alone for one Bitcoin are

  US $2045.18

 It should be noted that you need 1,361 Antminer S9s to do this today but the network difficulty has increased by an average of 7.8% per diff reset period over the previous 12 months so the cost will increase significantly as the network grows.  In fact, in about 10 hours, it's going to cost ~US$2110.00 to mine one Bitcoin in Montreal, Quebec at the best possible rate.


**actual tax rate may be slightly higher as this number is based on HST in Ontario where the provincial tax portion of the HST is slightly lower than the provincial tax portion in Quebec.

[jojo69]

made my first 3 ladder transactions in 5 days overnight

[Speculatoross]

Don't sell your Bitcoin
http://robbiecoach.com/dont-sell-your-bitcoins/


Funny thing, this guy's logo looks to be like "Roach" lol

[Ibian]

Yogi is right this time you guys. When you are prompted to make a choice between two things, then that is two things. In this case a legacy wallet or a segwit wallet.

Segwit was a mistake. Just the fact that it is opt-in instead of being standard for the entire network is a problem.

For the record, my wallets are and will remain legacy types. I just don't trust it.

[fluidjax]

Yogi is right this time you guys. When you are prompted to make a choice between two things, then that is two things. In this case a legacy wallet or a segwit wallet.

Segwit was a mistake. Just the fact that it is opt-in instead of being standard for the entire network is a problem.

For the record, my wallets are and will remain legacy types. I just don't trust it.

You are scared of a 51% attack?