Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[jbreher]

Can you give me a scenario where a Segwit 51% attack actually allows the attacker to profit.

Yes. I already did upthread. Segwit was activated by redefining what was initially an anyonecanspend transaction into a Segwit transaction. A 51% attacker can revert to the old rules. This would make Segwit outputs anyonecanspend outputs. To the extent that a 51(plus)% miner can roll back the chain, the Segwit transactions formerly included in the now-orphaned blocks are now free transactions. Those free transactions that were Segwit are now (again, assuming a reversion to the previous consensus rules) anyonecanspend transactions. The value in the outputs of these anyonecanspend transactions are free to be gobbled up by the 51% miner by including them in a block, and claiming them to themselves.

This ability for a 51% miner to siphon up value is unique to Segwit. It is a novel attack enabled only by the security-impairing so-called 'soft fork' activation method that was employed by The SegWit Omnibus Changeset.

But this is all elementary. We've been over this dozens of times, since the so-called 'soft fork' activation methodology was first proposed. If this is new news, then you have not been participating in the widely-held discussions.

(Indeed, if this be new news, you may have isolated yourself within a core-dominated echo chamber)

[fluidjax]

Can you give me a scenario where a Segwit 51% attack actually allows the attacker to profit.

Yes. I already did upthread. Segwit was activated by redefining what was initially an anyonecanspend transaction into a Segwit transaction. A 51% attacker can revert to the old rules. This would make Segwit outputs anyonecanspend outputs. To the extent that a 51(plus)% miner can roll back the chain, the Segwit transactions formerly included in the now-orphaned blocks are now free transactions. Those free transactions that were Segwit are now (again, assuming a reversion to the previous consensus rules) anyonecanspend transactions. The value in the outputs of these anyonecanspend transactions are free to be gobbled up by the 51% miner by including them in a block, and claiming them to themselves.

This ability for a 51% miner to siphon up value is unique to Segwit. It is a novel attack enabled only by the security-impairing so-called 'soft fork' activation method that was employed by The SegWit Omnibus Changeset.

But this is all elementary. We've been over this dozens of times, since the so-called 'soft fork' activation methodology was first proposed. If this is new news, then you have not been participating in the widely-held discussions.

(Indeed, if this be new news, you may have isolated yourself within a core-dominated echo chamber)

A 51% attack allows the miners to change ANY consensus rule.  They could simply increase the block reward if they wanted to get BTC rich.
51% is God Mode ON, worrying about a novel and clever Segwit attack is meaningless in this scenario.

[cAPSLOCK]

Did we just snag some bears in couple of traps? It seems so to me!

Crab-17 proceeds.

It seems nearly impossible at this point, but I seriously want to see Doug Polk win his bet.  Not just because I don't want to see it drop more, but also because I am a shadetree poker player, and also because Vays has been so smug recently.  It would be fun to see it bounce off 6200 and never go back.

[realr0ach]

I need everyone to take out longs to be ready for the scammers who run Bitfinex when they inevitably try and rig the price up by fraud again.  The second they try to raise it, just dump the leverage right on their face.

[V1lpu]

I need everyone to take out longs to be ready for the scammers who run Bitfinex when they inevitably try and rig the price up by fraud again.  The second they try to raise it, just dump the leverage right on their face.

To The Moon! Yay! 

[STT]

Were it not for DOGE's legacy as a joke coin, and its infinite emission schedule.

They state transactions not revenue so BCH is 859 dollars each and a doge is one fifth of a cent each.     So triple the transactions would not seem much when its likely far less revenue in value terms, less significance.   If thats what they meant by the graph

Code:

Volume (24h)
$334,153,000 USD 
50,989 BTC

vs

Code:

Volume (24h)
$8,586,680 USD 
1,310 BTC

39x the revenue in BCH favour.   This is why people dont trust graphs and statistics I guess.    Maybe their point was people, not value so doge is more widely used but I cant tell that


6639 to beat for btc and 6200 base is my rough view

[El duderino_]

Did we just snag some bears in couple of traps? It seems so to me!

Crab-17 proceeds.

It seems nearly impossible at this point, but I seriously want to see Doug Polk win his bet.  Not just because I don't want to see it drop more, but also because I am a shadetree poker player, and also because Vays has been so smug recently.  It would be fun to see it bounce off 6200 and never go back.

Makes 2 of us same reasons   love the game as well

[Toxic2040]

It seems nearly impossible at this point, but I seriously want to see Doug Polk win his bet.  Not just because I don't want to see it drop more, but also because I am a shadetree poker player, and also because Vays has been so smug recently.  It would be fun to see it bounce off 6200 and never go back.

+1 WOsMerit

Same here...always side with the degenerate gamblers obviously.

They state transactions not revenue so BCH is 859 dollars each and a doge is one fifth of a cent each.     So triple the transactions would not seem much when its likely far less revenue in value terms, less significance.   If thats what they meant by the graph

Code:

Volume (24h)
$334,153,000 USD 
50,989 BTC

vs

Code:

Volume (24h)
$8,586,680 USD 
1,310 BTC

39x the revenue in BCH favour.   This is why people dont trust graphs and statistics I guess.    Maybe their point was people, not value so doge is more widely used but I cant tell that


6639 to beat for btc and 6200 base is my rough view

+1 WOsMerit

It is terribly easy to bias numbers and charts. I think it was trying to illustrate community size. But it also brings up a great point for everyone here.

Do you USE bitcoin? or do you prefer to HODL bitcoin? I think many of us have got into the habit of just hodling..and there is something to be said about Metcalfe's law. I would encourage all of us to increase our USE of bitcoins...even if its just sending from one wallet to another.

-----------
Bitcoin
Not sure I can remember seeing a flat spot on the cloud quite like this before. Next week is going to be interesting imho. Nice hourly candle btw....wtg team green.

[Speculatoross]

Meanwhile

[infofront]

Geeze, JJG - you need to look up the definition of 'fungible'. Within the three posts preceding yours, 2/3 of them stated that they were cautious of accepting Segwit transactions until they gained some confidence in it. That is definitively a lack of fungibility. A lack of fungibility is in no way limited to some sort of centralized blacklisting.

If the miners are as trustworthy as you big blockers think, then it shouldn't even be an issue.

Might have some relevance.

Were it not for DOGE's legacy as a joke coin, and its infinite emission schedule.

I'm not a mathematician, but doesn't that make bcash  at least 3X more of a joke coin?

[bitserve]

Meanwhile

Stop what? Geez, the guy is completely paranoid. Noone cares about what he does or says anymore.

P.S.: Well maybe for fun and giggles every once in a while but not that anyone intends to stop him at anything... on the contrary.

[infofront]

Great post from Parabolic Trav

The only other time we had a large CME weekend panic gap, it was prior to the Feb 5 bottom. This week's decline implied maximum panic and set the conditions for the turn. Something to take note of if it happens again.

[FractalUniverse]

infofront: normally gaps are supposed to be filled. so 7.6-7.7k at least. not too bad.
even though there are no gaps on bitcoin 24/7 market, CME whales will like to keep their gap filling tradition  

[European Central Bank]

Great post from Parabolic Trav

isn't this guy the planet's most deluded bull who vanished when his ridiculous predictions turned out to be, uh, ridiculous?

[jojo69]

Great post from Parabolic Trav

isn't this guy the planet's most deluded bull who vanished when his ridiculous predictions turned out to be, uh, ridiculous?

I'm sorry

the quest for the title "planet's most deluded bull" is hotly contested, trav isn't even close

[infofront]

He's known for being an uber-bull, but he hasn't been discredited yet.



TLDR: logarithmic trend isn't broken unless we fall below ~$3,200.

Edit: ECB, you're thinking of an old timer. There was a Parabolic Chad or something like that. Parabolic Trav was inspired by him, and took up the mantle when "Chad" disappeared.

[realr0ach]

Edit: I'm adding this quote from Eric Meltzer of INBlockchain because its a slow day here:

As a jew, I find the existence of basically unseizable money outside of state control massively comforting. To jews, the state is an unpredictable monster that flips out every century or so. Having the ability to leave without leaving everything behind is key.”

What a joke of a quote.  The Jews always attempt to form a state within a state of their host nation (5th column) and enslave the native inhabitants through usury.  This is why the Jews have been kicked out of every single country they've ever attempted to infilitrate.  

They're not like Italian, Irish, Asian, or any other type of immigrant.  Their goal is not to integrate, it's an evil cult whose imaginary, made up beliefs claim it's their divine right to rule over and enslave all other humans. Allowing Jews in is the same thing as allowing termites to walk into your house on purpose.  They must always be expelled from wherever they attempt to infest.  For the same reason you do not invite the Charles Manson cult into your house, you do not allow the evil Jewish cult in either.

The scumbag Jew in your quote is pulling the typical Jew lie claiming it's IMPOSSIBLE for Jews ever to be in the wrong and if anyone ever does or says anything against them, the Jew is always the victim and it's never possible the Jews is just receiving blowback for his heinous crimes.  There's no such thing as a Jewish "man".  They do not act like men whatsoever.  They all pull this wretched, extremely female-like 'woe is me, I'm a SJW victim' scam while always being the aggresor against everyone else.

Besides, even if you are a religious nutjob who follows everything from scripture, then if Jesus was legit, that makes Christians the real Jews, and these evil Ashkenazi cult members claiming to be Jews but not the anti-christ. That's why they're referred to as "the synagogue of satan" in religious texts.  It would make sense from a religious point of view since many Satanists and feminists claim Satan is actually a woman representing matriarchy and the Jew displays nothing but the worst of female traits (being weak, pathetic, lying, manipulative) with disdain for anything resembling patriarchy.

Amen. Unfortunately they are already in every country. There were three left. North Korea seems infiltrated, Syria is destroyed. Last none jewish country is Iran.

It's amazing seeing weirdos on this forum defend this baby dick sucking cult.  Then they're like:  Oh, you don't like the baby dick sucking cult?  You must be a bad person then.

[realr0ach]

Meanwhile

Meanwhile, meanwhile:

[Wekkel]

Meanwhile

Stop what? Geez, the guy is completely paranoid. Noone cares about what he does or says anymore.

The question is not whether someone is going to stop him, but whether someone still cares.

[mindrust]

He's known for being an uber-bull, but he hasn't been discredited yet.



TLDR: logarithmic trend isn't broken unless we fall below ~$3,200.

Edit: ECB, you're thinking of an old timer. There was a Parabolic Chad or something like that. Parabolic Trav was inspired by him, and took up the mantle when "Chad" disappeared.

Holy crap this looks like a dream.