BTC-e hacked ??

[A.Zimmerer]

They clearly stated "ALL users need to verify" and @illinest is right.
There is no fiat processing involved.
You will get coins + token and you don't need to verify
for them in other exchanges who are following AML laws
like Kraken, Bittrex, GDAX, etc. There is no reason at this
point to send over high resolution scans of my personal documents
to criminals. This is a big security risk for all customers.

So to speak, the child has already fallen down the well.
At this point KYC/AML laws are BTC-E's and all it's
employees smallest problem. They are tainted as money
launders and now will be hunted and prosecuted.

The US law is very clear about this matter, especially if
it comes to business partners, and customers:


Participation in any capacity such as an accomplice, assistant
or instigator in an offence established in accordance with
this Convention.

All participating in the infringement or attempted infringement,
should be declared responsible, according to the particular
country's internal law, as accomplices or instigators.



Meaning if you are doing business with BTC-E or what ever they
call themselves now will be liable to prosecution.
That applies particularly to the new "investor company".
If they strictly follow KYC/AML laws and do business with
BTC-E they break the law and would be a criminal offence.


Conclusion: The whole thing looks fishy.
Bees that have honey in their mouths have stings in their tails.

Don't do it. You have been warned!

So my guess is YandexMoney (NASDAQ stock symbol YNDX),  QIWI,  Cloudflare and many other well known companies who worked with BTC-E are also "accomplices" and their respective CEOs will be hunted down and detained by the US government.

Cool story, bro.

Nope, because all these company's immediately halted their business with btc-e, handed over ALL evidence and froze btc-e fiat accounts after FBI busted them.
By the way that's a good example how company's make DEALS with US government to get immunity from prosecution! btc-e should do the same 

[teraf]

Surely, these companies have been effectively stopped doing business with BTC-E as soon as  the servers were taken away by the FBI, but it was not at their own discretion as you seem to imply.

Moreover, if BTC-E were involved in some money laundering, It is hard to see how YandexMoney or QIWI were not, as they provided this crypto exchange with the main fiat gateway. However $QIWI and $YNDX have an institutional base of US investors, so that FINCEN decided that it would be over the top to mention these companies in the press release.

Therefore the allegation brought against BTC-E is total bs. The US agency caught a guy with some questionable past and tried to paint the whole international customer base of this exchange as criminals. It is just a "hit piece" as they call it, or a disgusting political propaganda and nothing more.

[YesLOST]

As far as I read, the verification takes only place with the investor company covering the btce tokens. If the investor company does not show up, there will be not verification and just the 55% withdraw option.

[A.Zimmerer]

As far as I read, the verification takes only place with the investor company covering the btce tokens. If the investor company does not show up, there will be not verification and just the 55% withdraw option.

Believe me, the "investor company" will show up 100% and there will be tokens. Again, which legal "investor company" following KYC/AML laws would do business with wanted criminals? (that's a contradiction in itself). Right, none.  BTC-E owners will create a new company with new branding. Funds will come from them! Everything will stay in the big BTC-E family. Lot's of quick money they can make here ;-)

So, here is how things will turn out (most likely) The pyramid scheme will be like this:
Since everybody has to verify (long proccess). Nobody will be able to dump tokens at start. So BTC-E will have time to dump their own BTE assets first. Token soon will be worth a fraction of 1$. Soon many verified user will dump their tokens to get at least some btc back. Since BTC-E dumped first they can rebuy coins later at a fraction of 1$ and give them to the new verified users way cheaper  ...at one point when most of the users dumped their tokens btc-e can rebuy all coins cheap and pump it back to 1$.

Business as usual until G.I. Joe shows up and busts them again. This time with all the accounts linked to your personal or "faked" docs whatever...

The whole thing looks fishy.

[audaciousbeing]

Surely, they have been effectively stopped doing business with them as the domain name and servers of BTC-E were taken away.

However if BTC-E was supposedly involved in some heavy money laundering, I don't see how YandexMoney or QIWI were not, as they provided this crypto exchange with the main fiat gateway.  $QIWI and $YNDX have an institutional base of US investors, so that FINCEN decided not to mention them at all...


Therefore the allegation against BTC-E is total bs. The US agency caught a guy with some questionable past and try to paint the whole international customer base of this exchange (crypto traders) as criminals. It is just a "hit piece" as they call it, or a disgusting political propaganda, nothing more.

The issue of bias does not matter here in that when government wants to go after an individual they wont care whether they are allowing another criminal run and wont even care the people that would be hurt in the process as in the case of BTC-e and even the excuse of verification is a bogus one because the funds kept there is under adequate records and asking for records means something fishy in which I see as another quest to get some more people especially those with large funds on the exchange by the time they come out and disclose their identity. The fact still remains that even all the popular exchange sites, the best is not to at any point in time keep too much funds there.

[TheKoziTwo]

@A.Zimmerer
Don't do it = Don't get your coins

As far as i understood they require you to send your docs before you can withdraw. FIAT or coins doesn't matter

If you have only coins you can try sending a fake ID i guess, but how can you get a fake ID??

Nope, we should convince BTC-E to do the right thing.
Hand over our coins and token without verification!

Sending fakeID is no solution Lionel. So I will have to become criminal
to get my coins + tokens from criminal ? Nonsens...

If they know it's a fake ID, it means they already knew who you are.
Verification would not make sense then.

If you give a fake ID there is no way they can tell it's fake.

The problem is:  how can we get a fakeID ??

Generally how this work is you don't get fake id, but stolen ID, or fake id based on real, but stolen info, and you can get that on the darkweb. However there are several issues to consider here:
1. It's illegal, purchasing and using stolen ID makes you a criminal.
2. If the vendor has sold same info/id to others, that may become an issue if both use it in the same place
3. The id you get is just invalid
4. Poor job resulting in detection
5. You make someone else (the victim of identity fraud) a bigger victim by using their info

If I may, I suggest to add watermarks on your docs. This way, if the entity you submit the ID to is dishonest and will resell it etc the document will contain your watermark. That makes it less useful or useless as they would need to photoshop it out before use (they could still use your info of course and fill out a template, but you may be able to blank out the sensitive parts as well). If you have done a good job that may not be possible or too hard to be worth the effort. E.g if you submit ID to btc-e then add BTC-E in text with for example 0.3 opacity and same color as the document.

Morally, I think it could be argued that there is nothing wrong with identity fraud, as it is becoming a necessity to preserve anonymity or fighting the state. However the practical limitations should be considered. You put your funds at risk by using a fake ID, therefore I only really think it's worth it if you are a criminal or doing something very shady and can not under any circumstances be identified.

[TheKoziTwo]

So, here is how things will turn out (most likely) The pyramid scheme will be like this:[/size]
Since everybody has to verify (long proccess). Nobody will be able to dump tokens at start. So BTC-E will have time to dump their own BTE assets first. Token soon will be worth a fraction of 1$. Soon many verified user will dump their tokens to get at least some btc back. Since BTC-E dumped first they can rebuy coins later at a fraction of 1$ and give them to the new verified users way cheaper   ...at one point when most of the users dumped their tokens btc-e can rebuy all coins cheap and pump it back to 1$.

Business as usual until G.I. Joe shows up and busts them again. This time with all the accounts linked to your personal or "faked" docs whatever...

The whole thing looks fishy.

This makes no sense. First of all BTC-E is not getting any BTE tokens to dump, it's their users who get BTE token. Secondly there won't be anything to dump "into". There will be no buyers from the beginning. Third, "pumping it to $1" would be stupidity of the most insane degree as btc-e clearly stated that they will buy BTE tokens at the lowest market price back. Pumping it would only be a disservice in that sense as they would need to pay more to settle debt, BTC-E wants, if anything, the price to be as low as possible to have to pay less for the debt.

[vapourminer]

this whole thing seems odd.. seems criminals would have left no assets on btc-e, they would deposit, withdraw and be done with it. they would not leave coins/money on the site to trade (i wouldnt think so anyway). isnt the object is to take the money and run as fast as possible?

so the bulk of the money/coin that was seized may belong to legit (non criminal) people. as they would be the ones leaving assets in for trading. maybe some money that was in the process of being laundered at that exact moment would be seized too, but only btc-e (or LE) would know that amount.

so seems the bulk of the money/coins could belong to honest people.

but hey maybe im wrong, guess i dont have the criminal mentality.

also, this database backup btc-e still has and will use for bringing the exchange back up.. how old is it. hours, days, weeks old?. what about trades/deposits/withdrawals that happened between when the live servers were seized and the last db backup? they ceast to exist? limbo maybe? how would one prove a deposit was made on the live (now seized) database that is not reflected in the (possible hours/days old) backup as btc-e backups will not show that?

maybe they did real time backups?

no skin in this game, just curious.

[MAbtc]

Any chance their "verification" is just simply to validate active accounts?  If the account doesnt get verified after a period of time, they re-claim/re-distribute any funds to cover losses?

I think there's a good chance this is why verification would be enforced. But that doesn't address the fundamental problem: who wants to send their ID to this exchange now and be linked to funds that the US government considers to be illicit proceeds? KYC in this situation raises the odds of a honeypot by a good percentage, too.

[figmentofmyass]

also, this database backup btc-e still has and will use for bringing the exchange back up.. how old is it. hours, days, weeks old?. what about trades/deposits/withdrawals that happened between when the live servers were seized and the last db backup? they ceast to exist? limbo maybe? how would one prove a deposit was made on the live (now seized) database that is not reflected in the (possible hours/days old) backup as btc-e backups will not show that?

maybe they did real time backups?

no skin in this game, just curious.

nobody knows the details at this point. i suspect that the seized servers dumped to remote servers, but how often is anyone's guess. i would think every 2-6 hours, not more, but it's a complete guess. the deposit issue you mention is a problem if a user generated a new deposit address after the last server dump and before the seizure. but an old deposit address would already be linked to your account (btc-e allowed address re-use). but for all we know, maybe back-ups were in real-time.

[jubalix]

only in crypto could it get this confusing who has what and is doing what this fast .... I mean most organisations get FBI'd then end off, but whole new layers of into the looking glass is going on here ....


honey pots
ICO's
legal actions
etc etc

i suspect that if any cold wallets are seized and coins available a good portion of it goes to the first agent to be able to do this I mean how would you stop them really?

In fact I am sure this is a personal enrichment scheme the alphabet soup panoply of abc agencies.

Some agent/officer high enough up figures they can order a bust and be first on the scene or one of thier more loyeal agents to get the coins (maybe they split the profits) and then they quietly send themselves the coins.

In this case one can just imagine the discussion that happened over a Boston Boys dinner time.

[bj9k]

I almost forgot about BTC-e

So what you guys think who's going to be new mysterious investor: xbtce, fxopen, exmo or ________ ?

[jojo69]

I almost forgot about BTC-e

So what you guys think who's going to be new mysterious investor: xbtce, fxopen, exmo or ________ ?

Goat

[figmentofmyass]

I almost forgot about BTC-e

So what you guys think who's going to be new mysterious investor: xbtce, fxopen, exmo or ________ ?

exmo has some btc-e domains redirecting to it, but i think they are just trying to profit from btc-e's downfall. xbtce is purging US customers and distancing itself from btc-e, so that seems unlikely. fxopen is too reputable by now to get involved. really, any existing service shouldn't touch btc-e from an investment perspective. it makes no sense to touch tainted assets, unless you get blessing from the US government (like pokerstars did in paying back their own and full tilt's customers). if it happens, it'll be a new site that gets launched, but it'll be the same owners behind it.

[gnurta]

I verified my btc-e account via xbtce a month ago. So they already have my ID documents. For me, it doesn't hurt anymore to re-verify with them again.

[illyiller]

I verified my btc-e account via xbtce a month ago. So they already have my ID documents. For me, it doesn't hurt anymore to re-verify with them again.

There might be a difference now that charges were unsealed against them. It's unlikely (certainly for small fish), but given that the indictment alleges that the exchange itself is a criminal money laundering operation, the federal authorities can argue that the money you are withdrawing constitutes criminal proceeds. I'm sure they could seize it with civil forfeiture, if they can ever get their hands on it. I doubt they'd charge regular customers with conspiracy to launder money, but I also wouldn't want to be caught with the proceeds and my passport linked to the transactions via the exchange's database.

That's the thing here.... it's one thing to relaunch an altcoin exchange safely outside of the US sphere of influence. But that doesn't require documents. There is some speculation on the Russian forum about what exactly "verification" means. Some think it means tiered verification like other altcoin exchanges (e.g. name, address, phone number to enable withdrawals or something).

[bananax]

I verified my btc-e account via xbtce a month ago. So they already have my ID documents. For me, it doesn't hurt anymore to re-verify with them again.

There might be a difference now that charges were unsealed against them. It's unlikely (certainly for small fish), but given that the indictment alleges that the exchange itself is a criminal money laundering operation, the federal authorities can argue that the money you are withdrawing constitutes criminal proceeds. I'm sure they could seize it with civil forfeiture, if they can ever get their hands on it. I doubt they'd charge regular customers with conspiracy to launder money, but I also wouldn't want to be caught with the proceeds and my passport linked to the transactions via the exchange's database.

That's the thing here.... it's one thing to relaunch an altcoin exchange safely outside of the US sphere of influence. But that doesn't require documents. There is some speculation on the Russian forum about what exactly "verification" means. Some think it means tiered verification like other altcoin exchanges (e.g. name, address, phone number to enable withdrawals or something).

Huh? The charge BTCE had was operating a money service without a license.

[erk]

Huh? The charge BTCE had was operating a money service without a license.

Do you know the money service licensing requirements of the country BTC-e was operating in?

[larkinvain]

FBI Says ISIS Used eBay to Send Terror Cash to U.S.
Affidavit alleges American citizen Mohamed Elshinawy was part of a global network stretching from Britain to Bangladesh

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/islamic-state-ebay-funnel-money-u-s-fbi-article-1.3401556

So will the FBI be raiding the offices of eBay as well?

[illyiller]

I verified my btc-e account via xbtce a month ago. So they already have my ID documents. For me, it doesn't hurt anymore to re-verify with them again.

There might be a difference now that charges were unsealed against them. It's unlikely (certainly for small fish), but given that the indictment alleges that the exchange itself is a criminal money laundering operation, the federal authorities can argue that the money you are withdrawing constitutes criminal proceeds. I'm sure they could seize it with civil forfeiture, if they can ever get their hands on it. I doubt they'd charge regular customers with conspiracy to launder money, but I also wouldn't want to be caught with the proceeds and my passport linked to the transactions via the exchange's database.

That's the thing here.... it's one thing to relaunch an altcoin exchange safely outside of the US sphere of influence. But that doesn't require documents. There is some speculation on the Russian forum about what exactly "verification" means. Some think it means tiered verification like other altcoin exchanges (e.g. name, address, phone number to enable withdrawals or something).

Huh? The charge BTCE had was operating a money service without a license.

There were two charges. 1) Operating a money services business without a license. 2) Conspiracy to commit money laundering.

There were additionally a bunch of other money laundering charges filed against Alexander Vinnik, supposed owner or admin of the exchange. He is getting charged with one count for each bitcoin transfer made into BTC-e's wallets, from the looks of it. They are just getting a blanket conspiracy charge.

If this were only about operating unlicensed, I'd be even more worried about Poloniex and Bitfinex right now.