Ixcoin TODO

[FrictionlessCoin]

(1) If CEX.IO (i.e. GHASH.IO) supports IXCoin with zero subsidy....   then that's great.

I have always said a 1% inflation rate would be fine.  

Well i'm new but totally agree with inflation.  Be even more like bitcoin.

Bitcoin has ZERO inflation.  It's actually deflationary.

So iXcoin is already EXACTLY like Bitcoin.

No inflation unless it's absolutely necessary, let's keep it exactly like Bitcoin since that's the standard.

That's my vote.

A little bit of terminology here so we are in the same page.

When I talk about a 1% inflation,  I am talking about 1 IXC coin created per block instead of the 96 coins.  (Actually, it's a little bit over 1%).

Bitcoin has not hit the limit.  Bitcoin is still inflationary since you still get 25 new coins every 10 minutes.

Bitcoin is only truly deflationary when it hits 21 million coins.   

However, because Bitcoin mining difficulty is not constant, but rather becoming more difficult over time,  the cost to 'mine' new coins becomes more expensive over time.  If by deflationary you mean that to acquire a new coin there is a cost to do so (rather than print money for free), then both IXC and BTC are deflationary regardless if the IXC rate is 96 coins per block or 1 coin per block.

[FrictionlessCoin]

Bitcoin is inflationary right now and in fact it will never stop inflating...This experiment to stop inflating in a few months is a disaster.  

Besides, if you believe this:
Milton Friedman predicted crypto currency in 1999 the NSA had a design built in 1996 and the rest is history.
http://kolinevans.wordpress.com/2014/03/02/milton-friedman-predicted-crypto-currency-in-1999-the-nsa-had-a-design-built-in-1996-and-the-rest-is-history/

Then read this:
Friedman's k-percent rule
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedman%27s_k-percent_rule
"Friedman's k-percent rule is the monetarist proposal that the money supply should be increased by the central bank by a constant percentage rate every year, irrespective of business cycles."

If you don't want to take my input, maybe listen to Friedman...

So frictionless minimal proposal of 1% fits Milton Friedman.  

You just want to retain and exploit your 3% stake, that's crazy for adoption and miners have no incentive with no transactions so no fees.  Defies logic.

You argue IXC will have greater liquidity by being mined out, then argue against increasing liquidity.  All for selfish reasons.

Agree with your statement about the lack of incentive to secure the network.   This of course assumes that the interests of the pools are the same as the miner. Generally it is. 

I continue to favor a 1 coin per block mining rate after we hit the limit.   Others may disagree,  however let's see what indeed happens.   The code fix is indeed trivial,  however what is not trivial is if a pool like GHash.IO removes IXC from its merged mining... that is not a trivial event to fix... that will absolutely kill the coin.

[cryptos]

Agree with your statement about the lack of incentive to secure the network.   This of course assumes that the interests of the pools are the same as the miner. Generally it is. 

I continue to favor a 1 coin per block mining rate after we hit the limit.   Others may disagree,  however let's see what indeed happens.   The code fix is indeed trivial,  however what is not trivial is if a pool like GHash.IO removes IXC from its merged mining... that is not a trivial event to fix... that will absolutely kill the coin.

If you intend to keep updating the code, which hopefully you do, you have to get the pools to accept new versions.  Once incentive stops, no reason for pools to even bother with any updates.  If only GHASH.IO left, well, there goes anyone in this community ever looking to IXC ever again.  I cannot see a single logical rational argument for ending inflation and neither does Milton Friedman.   

I am starting to see this as a 5 year project before IXC gains any traction, if ever, even with 1 coin per block lol.

[Vlad2Vlad]

Bitcoin is inflationary right now and in fact it will never stop inflating...This experiment to stop inflating in a few months is a disaster.  

Besides, if you believe this:
Milton Friedman predicted crypto currency in 1999 the NSA had a design built in 1996 and the rest is history.
http://kolinevans.wordpress.com/2014/03/02/milton-friedman-predicted-crypto-currency-in-1999-the-nsa-had-a-design-built-in-1996-and-the-rest-is-history/

Then read this:
Friedman's k-percent rule
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedman%27s_k-percent_rule
"Friedman's k-percent rule is the monetarist proposal that the money supply should be increased by the central bank by a constant percentage rate every year, irrespective of business cycles."

If you don't want to take my input, maybe listen to Friedman...

So frictionless minimal proposal of 1% fits Milton Friedman.  

You just want to retain and exploit your 3% stake, that's crazy for adoption and miners have no incentive with no transactions so no fees.  Defies logic.

You argue IXC will have greater liquidity by being mined out, then argue against increasing liquidity.  All for selfish reasons.

This is the 4th alias you have used since you first bought iXcoin some 6-8 weeks ago.  Hard to take you seriously, anymore.

At any rate:


Wrong on all counts - I already considered everything you have posted [and more] before I cast my vote.

I have an Econ degree and I understand what deflation does - it is as bad, long term, as inflation [for the poor].

The 2 economists you quoted are 100% right.

And BTW:  Bitcoin is deflationary in that it has a fixed amount of coins [for now].  Valuations look at that and not at just the fact there's new coins being minted [temporarily].

IDEALY [in the long run] it's best to have a small nominal inflation strategy, like 1%-3%, this is ideal and correct.

My rationale does not come from selfishness, I could easily then vote for a 10% PoS and get richer than everyone else - this is exactly what bankers do, this is what the fed and the elite do and it is a stealth tax on the poor and middle class, and I have no intention of doing that, LONG TERM.

I'm simply thinking about what will lead to the quickest mass adoption path.  And that is:  To be as close to the standard, which is Bitcoin, as possible.

This is our biggest advantage against the hundreds [and soon thousands] of other alt-coins.
If we advertise ourselves as Bitcoin's twin, it would be a lie if we were actually printing more coins beyond the 21 million hardcap, and that is one of Bitcoin's biggest selling points against the hate people have for Fiat.

And you suggest it's a good idea to give that massive advantage away.  NEVER!

Bitcoin will inflate, they will add PoS, the 21 million hard cap will be raised, I've said this since last year, but for now they have not and neither will we, UNLESS it is absolutely necessary to keep the miners going, and in this case, given we have CEX on our board, it is NOT necessary.

[FrictionlessCoin]

Agree with your statement about the lack of incentive to secure the network.   This of course assumes that the interests of the pools are the same as the miner. Generally it is. 

I continue to favor a 1 coin per block mining rate after we hit the limit.   Others may disagree,  however let's see what indeed happens.   The code fix is indeed trivial,  however what is not trivial is if a pool like GHash.IO removes IXC from its merged mining... that is not a trivial event to fix... that will absolutely kill the coin.

If you intend to keep updating the code, which hopefully you do, you have to get the pools to accept new versions.  Once incentive stops, no reason for pools to even bother with any updates.  If only GHASH.IO left, well, there goes anyone in this community ever looking to IXC ever again.  I cannot see a single logical rational argument for ending inflation and neither does Milton Friedman.   

I am starting to see this as a 5 year project before IXC gains any traction, if ever, even with 1 coin per block lol.

You are correct in that the new version of IXC needs to get into GHash.IO (and the other pools).  That absolutely is priority.

Can someone take up the technical task to ensure that GHash.IO is consistently updated with the IXC code?  

I certainly don't have the time for that.  I really don't own a lot of IXC, so I really don't have any real incentive to do a lot of maintenance work for IXC.

[Vlad2Vlad]

Agree with your statement about the lack of incentive to secure the network.   This of course assumes that the interests of the pools are the same as the miner. Generally it is. 

I continue to favor a 1 coin per block mining rate after we hit the limit.   Others may disagree,  however let's see what indeed happens.   The code fix is indeed trivial,  however what is not trivial is if a pool like GHash.IO removes IXC from its merged mining... that is not a trivial event to fix... that will absolutely kill the coin.

If you intend to keep updating the code, which hopefully you do, you have to get the pools to accept new versions.  Once incentive stops, no reason for pools to even bother with any updates.  If only GHASH.IO left, well, there goes anyone in this community ever looking to IXC ever again.  I cannot see a single logical rational argument for ending inflation and neither does Milton Friedman.   

I am starting to see this as a 5 year project before IXC gains any traction, if ever, even with 1 coin per block lol.

You are correct in that the new version of IXC needs to get into GHash.IO (and the other pools).  That absolutely is priority.

Can someone take up the technical task to ensure that GHash.IO is consistently updated with the IXC code?  

I certainly don't have the time for that.  I really don't own a lot of IXC, so I really don't have any real incentive to do a lot of maintenance work for IXC.

I've already talked to Jeffery and he said they have no issue updating to iXcoin's newest code.  But we have to make it count; release the best update possible.  Native escrow and whatever else will give us an edge against most other alts.

[FrictionlessCoin]

Bitcoin will inflate, they will add PoS, the 21 million hard cap will be raised, I've said this since last year, but for now they have not and neither will we, UNLESS it is absolutely necessary to keep the miners going, and in this case, given we have CEX on our board, it is NOT necessary.

I think you need to practical about this.

The subsidy runs out in October.    

If after October, miners and pools drop IXC support, then we will have a complete debacle in our hands and there will be no fix for it.

I do not know what CEX plans for October are.

Will they accept zero subsidy or an alternative of 1 coin per block (or some other number,  note there is also a halving event in a month...  so instead of 96 coins, it'll drop to 48).

So there's a lot of dynamics going on here.  

Look.... I don't have a lot riding on IXC.   However, I am pleading... practically *begging* that there be some sanity be introduced before IXC falls off the cliff!

[Vlad2Vlad]

I will need help testing.

Let me first release a new version of IXCoin with just the OP_RETURN changes.   Then we can test this version against the modified counterparty client.

I assume the update will be based on version 0.8.6, not 0.9.0, which is ok.

What about native IXC escrow?  I still think that would be best for the reasons already stated, even if it takes more time.  Maybe we should vote on IXC escrow.

You've got my vote, we need the best, most comprehensive update possible.

I don't want to go to all the pools and ask them to do all the work to update to the new code, for some Mickey Mouse update and then in 2 months have to do it all over again.  Pools don't care about IXC, other than CEX.io, so we really need to get this update done right.

And I agree that we should have it done soon, before the next boom, it would really help when millions of new people come in looking at which coins to invest in.

I'm tired of nearing iXcoin is worthless cause it doesn't have any copy and paste features.

[FrictionlessCoin]

I've already talked to Jeffery and he said they have no issue updating to iXcoin's newest code.  But we have to make it count; release the best update possible.  Native escrow and whatever else will give us an edge against most other alts.

Anyone talking 'native escrow' is dreaming.   How the hell is that going to be implemented?  If you are talking multi-sig,  then that's already in 0.8.6, otherwise,  I have no idea what you folks are talking about.

[Vlad2Vlad]

Bitcoin will inflate, they will add PoS, the 21 million hard cap will be raised, I've said this since last year, but for now they have not and neither will we, UNLESS it is absolutely necessary to keep the miners going, and in this case, given we have CEX on our board, it is NOT necessary.

I think you need to practical about this.

The subsidy runs out in October.    

If after October, miners and pools drop IXC support, then we will have a complete debacle in our hands and there will be no fix for it.

I do not know what CEX plans for October are.

Will they accept zero subsidy or an alternative of 1 coin per block (or some other number,  note there is also a halving event in a month...  so instead of 96 coins, it'll drop to 48).

So there's a lot of dynamics going on here.  

Look.... I don't have a lot riding on IXC.   However, I am pleading... practically *begging* that there be some sanity be introduced before IXC falls off the cliff!

I really don't understand where this fear and panic is coming from.

We have the full support [for now at least] of the largest mining pool on earth.

THEY HAVE ALREADY STATED that they will mine iXcoin FOR FREE, with no additional subsidy necessary.

ZERO additional subsidy required.

Now all of a sudden, the sky is falling and we need to inflate - hurry, let's remove one of our biggest selling points.

Why?  Where is this fear coming from - it is utterly baseless.

IF we lose the support of CEX.io we will then DO WHATEVER NECESSARY, including inflating, IF necessary.

But ONLY if necessary.

It would take but 1 day to change 1 line of code raising the max hardcap and adding the 1% inflation.

This debate is all really overblown [as we have discussed this already] and completely unnecessary.

[Vlad2Vlad]

I've already talked to Jeffery and he said they have no issue updating to iXcoin's newest code.  But we have to make it count; release the best update possible.  Native escrow and whatever else will give us an edge against most other alts.

Anyone talking 'native escrow' is dreaming.   How the hell is that going to be implemented?  If you are talking multi-sig,  then that's already in 0.8.6, otherwise,  I have no idea what you folks are talking about.

I don't either.  It just sounds great and there's been so many changes to the original plan of how and what we were gonna add that I'm frankly lost.

As long as we're adding the most comprehensive Counterparty update, I'm ok with it.

[FrictionlessCoin]

Bitcoin will inflate, they will add PoS, the 21 million hard cap will be raised, I've said this since last year, but for now they have not and neither will we, UNLESS it is absolutely necessary to keep the miners going, and in this case, given we have CEX on our board, it is NOT necessary.

I think you need to practical about this.

The subsidy runs out in October.    

If after October, miners and pools drop IXC support, then we will have a complete debacle in our hands and there will be no fix for it.

I do not know what CEX plans for October are.

Will they accept zero subsidy or an alternative of 1 coin per block (or some other number,  note there is also a halving event in a month...  so instead of 96 coins, it'll drop to 48).

So there's a lot of dynamics going on here.  

Look.... I don't have a lot riding on IXC.   However, I am pleading... practically *begging* that there be some sanity be introduced before IXC falls off the cliff!

I really don't understand where this fear and panic is coming from.

We have the full support [for now at least] of the largest mining pool on earth.

THEY HAVE ALREADY STATED that they will mine iXcoin FOR FREE, with no additional subsidy necessary.

ZERO additional subsidy required.

Now all of a sudden, the sky is falling and we need to inflate - hurry, let's remove one of our biggest selling points.

Why?  Where is this fear coming from - it is utterly baseless.

IF we lose the support of CEX.io we will then DO WHATEVER NECESSARY, including inflating, IF necessary.

But ONLY if necessary.

It would take but 1 day to change 1 line of code raising the max hardcap and adding the 1% inflation.

This debate is all really overblown [as we have discussed this already] and completely unnecessary.

Okay...  if you got Jeffrey's word that IXC will not be pulled with zero subsidy.  You have better be 100% certain about this.    

I am perfectly fine with this scenario.   Of course,  it's just really weird that a single pool controls 100% of the coin.

[cryptos]

Wrong on all counts - I already considered everything you have posted [and more] before I cast my vote.

I have an Econ degree and I understand what deflation does - it is as bad, long term, as inflation [for the poor].

The 2 economists you quoted are 100% right.

And BTW:  Bitcoin is deflationary in that it has a fixed amount of coins [for now].  Valuations look at that and not at just the fact there's new coins being minted [temporarily].

IDEALY [in the long run] it's best to have a small nominal inflation strategy, like 1%-3%, this is ideal and correct.

My rationale does not come from selfishness, I could easily then vote for a 10% PoS and get richer than everyone else - this is exactly what bankers do, this is what the fed and the elite do a it is a stealth tax on the poor and middle class, and I have no intention of doing that, LONG TERM.

I'm simply thinking about what will lead to the quickest mass adoption path.  And that is:  To be as close to the standard, which is Bitcoin, as possible.

This is our biggest advantage against the hundreds [and soon thousands] of other alt-coins.
If we advertise ourselves as Bitcoin's twin, it would be a lie if we were actually printing more coins beyond the 21 million hardcap, and that is one of Bitcoin's biggest selling point against the hate people have for Fiat.

And you suggest it's a good idea to give that massive advantage away.  NEVER!

Bitcoin will inflate, they will add PoS, the 21 million hard cap will be raised, I've said this since last year, but for now they have not and neither will we, UNLESS it is absolutely necessary to keep the miners going, and in this case, given we have CEX on our board, it is NOT necessary.

None of what you have written makes any sense, its utter nonsense and you are being blinded by your ego.

You are comparing yourself to Milton Friedman? 2 economists? "They" are 100% right and you want to ignore Friedman?

Bitcoin is in its inflationary period, 21 million coins will not be minted until ~2040.  You are very confused.

This supposed hard cap on bitcoin is its flaw.  You want to be left with only CEX mining? Have you gone mad?

Frictionless is 100% right though I won't beg.  

It is not a decision that has to be made now, but since frictionless mentioned it, i thought would
add me and MILTON FRIEDMAN (1 economist, winner of Nobel Prize in Economics) to the mix.

Okay...  if you got Jeffrey's word that IXC will not be pulled with zero subsidy.  You have better be 100% certain about this.    

I am perfectly fine with this scenario.   Of course,  it's just really weird that a single pool controls 100% of the coin.

Ya there was not a lot of discussion when GHASH.IO was about to takeover 51% of BTC around the net.  Community would
be quite happy to see IXC get 100%... That is one way to drive it to 0.00000001 satoshi pretty fast assuming that is your goal?

[Vlad2Vlad]

Bitcoin will inflate, they will add PoS, the 21 million hard cap will be raised, I've said this since last year, but for now they have not and neither will we, UNLESS it is absolutely necessary to keep the miners going, and in this case, given we have CEX on our board, it is NOT necessary.

I think you need to practical about this.

The subsidy runs out in October.    

If after October, miners and pools drop IXC support, then we will have a complete debacle in our hands and there will be no fix for it.

I do not know what CEX plans for October are.

Will they accept zero subsidy or an alternative of 1 coin per block (or some other number,  note there is also a halving event in a month...  so instead of 96 coins, it'll drop to 48).

So there's a lot of dynamics going on here.  

Look.... I don't have a lot riding on IXC.   However, I am pleading... practically *begging* that there be some sanity be introduced before IXC falls off the cliff!

I really don't understand where this fear and panic is coming from.

We have the full support [for now at least] of the largest mining pool on earth.

THEY HAVE ALREADY STATED that they will mine iXcoin FOR FREE, with no additional subsidy necessary.

ZERO additional subsidy required.

Now all of a sudden, the sky is falling and we need to inflate - hurry, let's remove one of our biggest selling points.

Why?  Where is this fear coming from - it is utterly baseless.

IF we lose the support of CEX.io we will then DO WHATEVER NECESSARY, including inflating, IF necessary.

But ONLY if necessary.

It would take but 1 day to change 1 line of code raising the max hardcap and adding the 1% inflation.

This debate is all really overblown [as we have discussed this already] and completely unnecessary.

Okay...  if you got Jeffrey's word that IXC will not be pulled with zero subsidy.  You have better be 100% certain about this.    

I am perfectly fine with this scenario.   Of course,  it's just really weird that a single pool controls 100% of the coin.

That's exactly what I have been told.  If things change we will then change our strategy as well.

I have a feeling if iXcoin becomes a player, a coin with a future, other pools will update as well, to remain competitive and to get fees.

This is why it's crucial we release a very good update this time around.  Something incredibly useful and not just window dressing.

Other pools will follow the biggest pool, presuming there's something going on.

And it's not any more odd than 1 pool, barely 1 year old, controlling over 40% of Bitcoin.

We're very lucky to have CEX.io so let's make use of them for the best.


Edit:  This is my biggest worry, that this Counterparty update will either be majorly flawed or very mediocre.  Such an update would be a huge waste of time and make us look like idiots and that's a sure way to lose CEX.io.

[cryptos]

That's exactly what I have been told.  If things change we will then change our strategy as well.

I have a feeling if iXcoin becomes a player, a coin with a future, other pools will update as well, to remain competitive and to get fees.

This is why it's crucial we release a very good update this time around.  Something incredibly useful and not just window dressing.

Other pools will follow the biggest pool, presuming there's something going on.

And it's not any more odd than 1 pool, barely 1 year old, controlling over 40% of Bitcoin.

We're very lucky to have CEX.io so let's make use of them for the best.

So, major decisions are based on feelings not economics or greed?  This is what you have been told?  Nothing in writing?

Other pools will no longer have any incentive to upgrade until IXC becomes a "player"

This is ludicrous thinking and dangerous.

[FrictionlessCoin]

That's exactly what I have been told.  If things change we will then change our strategy as well.

I have a feeling if iXcoin becomes a player, a coin with a future, other pools will update as well, to remain competitive and to get fees.

This is why it's crucial we release a very good update this time around.  Something incredibly useful and not just window dressing.

Other pools will follow the biggest pool, presuming there's something going on.

And it's not any more odd than 1 pool, barely 1 year old, controlling over 40% of Bitcoin.

We're very lucky to have CEX.io so let's make use of them for the best.

So, major decisions are based on feelings not economics or greed?  This is what you have been told?  Nothing in writing?

Other pools will no longer have any incentive to upgrade until IXC becomes a "player"

This is ludicrous thinking and dangerous.

I've got to admit,  it's alot of insane thinking.   But what the heck, let's see how this experiment pans out.   

I think because CEX.io is involved, this is indeed tremendous progress for IXC.

   

[cryptos]

I've got to admit,  it's alot of insane thinking.   But what the heck, let's see how this experiment pans out.  

I think because CEX.io is involved, this is indeed tremendous progress for IXC.

So this coin is run by a dictator mad man?

Edit:  This is my biggest worry, that this Counterparty update will either be majorly flawed or very mediocre.  Such an update would be a huge waste of time and make us look like idiots and that's a sure way to lose CEX.io.

Simplest answer then.  Dont do any updates and just hope for the best when subsidy runs out.

That makes more sense.

I think Vlad needs to hear some other opinions, like CEX.

[FrictionlessCoin]

I've got to admit,  it's alot of insane thinking.   But what the heck, let's see how this experiment pans out.   

I think because CEX.io is involved, this is indeed tremendous progress for IXC.

So this coin is run by a dictator mad man?

Edit:  This is my biggest worry, that this Counterparty update will either be majorly flawed or very mediocre.  Such an update would be a huge waste of time and make us look like idiots and that's a sure way to lose CEX.io.

Simplest answer then.  Dont do any updates and just hope for the best when subsidy runs out.

That makes more sense.

Yes, we got a mad man running the show.   Honestly,  I think an element of crazy is needed to differentiate this coin from the rest.

[Vlad2Vlad]

That's exactly what I have been told.  If things change we will then change our strategy as well.

I have a feeling if iXcoin becomes a player, a coin with a future, other pools will update as well, to remain competitive and to get fees.

This is why it's crucial we release a very good update this time around.  Something incredibly useful and not just window dressing.

Other pools will follow the biggest pool, presuming there's something going on.

And it's not any more odd than 1 pool, barely 1 year old, controlling over 40% of Bitcoin.

We're very lucky to have CEX.io so let's make use of them for the best.

So, major decisions are based on feelings not economics or greed?  This is what you have been told?  Nothing in writing?

Other pools will no longer have any incentive to upgrade until IXC becomes a "player"

This is ludicrous thinking and dangerous.

Yes, forgive me, I'm gonna go to CEX.io and demand a written contract right now cause the guy with 100 IXC doesn't trust them.

And right after that I'm gonna go to the White House and demand they give me something in writing too.

Dude, are you kidding?

The sheer fact CEX.io has agreed to join our board and committed to mine IXC for free is a massive, ENORMOUS break for iXC.  But it's not good enough for you, you want me to start throwing my weight around, you know, cause I'm the iXcoin guy.  Haha!

Yeah, that's how you handle someone who's a million times your business stature.  Show them total distrust.

You obviously have fear and trust issues - indicative of someone who has a lying problem.  I don't.  I have no reason to not trust CEX, they have nothing to gain by falsely joining our board and lying to us - they've got MUCH MUCH bigger and better things to do.

In business, you sometimes have to trust your business partners, especially the ones holding the keys to your future.

And yes, feelings aka intuition is very often used in business and economics where developing and testing a theory is needed.  Sorry, I don't [yet] own a time-machine.

You sure are ablaze given you've got only 100 iXcoins at risk.  Man, I wish I'd only have $7.50 on the line.  

Cause you're acting like you spent 70+ Bitcoins [or something] on iXcoin.  But you're not a distrusting and dishonest person to exaggerate to such a massive degree, so I'll take your word for your 100 IXC investment and remain perplexed about your anger and hasty, emotional decision making.

I literally have my life savings at risk in iXcoin and I'm trying to do what's right for iXcoin [for the long run] and not just for myself.  For myself, I'd announce a massive PoS scheme, that's the biggest crypto trend right now and everyone is falling for it:  "To bring in new investors and help secure the coin after terminal mining".


Haha - what shameless scammers.

[cryptos]

Me and zebedee are trying to help you out and see sense.  I argue with everyone on this board, its FUN