Ixcoin TODO

[GroundRod]

In a way, we're under allot of pressure here to come up with ways that IXC can find its natural potential value.  Otherwise it may just be remembered as a bad omen for those trading in the distant future.  Realistically though, anything higher than a nickles worth of bitcoin (0.05) would be an over valuation, wouldnt it? 

Sure would like to hear what others here think.  Ya, sure I want its price to rise, yet to reach having 2K of these coins, but consider myself an investor, been slowly accumulating and buying as I can, mined and saved the dust.  That initial CEX trading open was fun, was lucky to sell a few in the 0.000275 range & put it all back, plus some, at these lowest levels (0.00006), yet wondering what price might be a good place for IXC to land & be stable long term?  IMO....That would really help it establishing the best possible price/place alongside of bitcoin in the coming years...

The sprinter twin that extended bitcoin to 12 decimal points, so reducing transaction fees, that it became affordable for even the poorest living on the planet to use as an equal.

GR

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[JReag]

yet wondering what price might be a good place for IXC to land & be stable long term?  IMO....That would really help it establishing the best possible price/place alongside of bitcoin in the coming years...

The sprinter twin that extended bitcoin to 12 decimal points, so reducing transaction fees, that it became affordable for even the poorest living on the planet to use as an equal.

GR

The best price is the one which reflects the actual value IX brings to the end holders. The importance of the updates is that, at the moment, IX just isn't very heavy on the feature or modern side of things.

That doesn't kill the coin, it just provides an obstacle which the dev team must overcome.

[Vlad2Vlad]

The sprinter twin that extended bitcoin to 12 decimal points, so reducing transaction fees, that it became affordable for even the poorest living on the planet to use as an equal.

GR

12 decimal places?

You lost me; how can iXcoin do that for Bitcoin?

Cheers!


Edit:  Welcome to iXcoin.  Welcome to the  F U T U R E.

[jubalix]

the problem is this everyone holding out for x price in BTC to dump into BTC.....see that there....

[xchange]

we need to build an ixcoin fund, let people deposit their ixcoin to the fund, get interests.
and don't sell their ixcoin at those markets.
we hope the ixcoin price will reach 0.1btc=1ixc at 2014.

[GroundRod]

Hard to get my thinking across in a quick post Vlad, but do hope to add to the discussion, deadsea and jubalix get it I think.

1st on the development side, there must be about 10 lines of code difference between IXC and BTC, the rest is all cosmetics, such as titles, error messages, logos & build scripts, what is the hold up, for not staying in time sync with developments and release of upgrades between the two coins?  IMO the binding between the twins is IXC's biggest asset.

So, we need a good team which quickly responds to changes on the bitcoin side and upgrades happen to IXC in time sync with those developments, I'm volunteering to help, but that will be of little value until at least Oct or Nov.

Vlad, where I'm getting the 12 decimal points is thinking about what we call one satoshi today, that is 0.00000001 bitcoin & thinking about IXC potential value and transaction costs, call them tatoshi's or xatoshis or iatoshis, I don't care, but its common place today to think of latoshis when referencing LTC trades with other alt coins and it's not realistic to double the number of decimal points from 8 to 16 for this twin, so I just picked 12 as an example of possibly where a balance could be found that allows IXC to trade fairly, pay a reasonable transaction fee and move more bitcoin secured type money around for folks than ever before.

What we need is to do is build peoples confidence in using IXC as bitcoin's cheaper twin, a coin for which right now there is nearly twice as many of, and no more will be minted.

Get people to start thinking about owning a smaller cut of a bigger pie using IXC, by the way it cost IXC almost nothing to get that very precious thing 'confidence', as more people except and start using Bitcoin, this coin should be right there on the shirtsleeve, ready to ride the wave.

Hope that helps, gotta run...

GR

[Vlad2Vlad]

Hard to get my thinking across in a quick post Vlad, but do hope to add to the discussion, deadsea and jubalix get it I think.

1st on the development side, there must be about 10 lines of code difference between IXC and BTC, the rest is all cosmetics, such as titles, error messages, logos & build scripts, what is the hold up, for not staying in time sync with developments and release of upgrades between the two coins?  IMO the binding between the twins is IXC's biggest asset.

So, we need a good team which quickly responds to changes on the bitcoin side and upgrades happen to IXC in time sync with those developments, I'm volunteering to help, but that will be of little value until at least Oct or Nov.

Vlad, where I'm getting the 12 decimal points is thinking about what we call one satoshi today, that is 0.00000001 bitcoin & thinking about IXC potential value and transaction costs, call them tatoshi's or xatoshis or iatoshis, I don't care, but its common place today to think of latoshis when referencing LTC trades with other alt coins and it's not realistic to double the number of decimal points from 8 to 16 for this twin, so I just picked 12 as an example of possibly where a balance could be found that allows IXC to trade fairly, pay a reasonable transaction fee and move more bitcoin secured type money around for folks than ever before.

What we need is to do is build peoples confidence in using IXC as bitcoin's cheaper twin, a coin for which right now there is nearly twice as many of, and no more will be minted.

Get people to start thinking about owning a smaller cut of a bigger pie using IXC, by the way it cost IXC almost nothing to get that very precious thing 'confidence', as more people except and start using Bitcoin, this coin should be right there on the shirtsleeve, ready to ride the wave.

Hope that helps, gotta run...

GR

Ok, first, I don't know why updates take forever for iXC, I thought it was more complicated than that.

Secondly, why would we need to add decimal places?  Once IXC is done mining it will have empty blocks which will mean easier propagation which means IXC will be able to really load its network with many more transactions per second than Bitcoin.

More decimal places is a change even Bitcoin can implement with little risk so I don't see how this would help IXC.  It's not like iXcoin has some massive value which needs to be broken down even further, on the contrary, it's ultra cheap.  Bitcoin may need a few more decimal places come next year.

I'm not a programmer so maybe I'm missing something.  But I do agree with everything else you're saying.

Thanks for your valuable input.

[kraizi]

1st on the development side, there must be about 10 lines of code difference between IXC and BTC, the rest is all cosmetics, such as titles, error messages, logos & build scripts, what is the hold up, for not staying in time sync with developments and release of upgrades between the two coins?  IMO the binding between the twins is IXC's biggest asset.

So, we need a good team which quickly responds to changes on the bitcoin side and upgrades happen to IXC in time sync with those developments, I'm volunteering to help, but that will be of little value until at least Oct or Nov.

The key additions to iXcoin which make it difficult to update are for merged mining.  Bitcoin doesn't have them and iXcoin can't operate without merged mining because all the pools use it.  The updates are not trivial.  That's why most of the merge mined coins are updated so infrequently, and why it took over two years to update iXcoin last time.  Most other coins just don't even bother with merged mining in the first place.  But it does give iXcoin a big advantage by having such a large hash rate.  It's an enormous attraction for pools like GHash.io because they can mine iXcoin without extra mining resources. 

[GroundRod]

@kraizi - Thanks for that, was just about to speak on that very thing (merged mining), without knowing the specific details I was of the opinion it would be critical to keep intact while upgrading this wallet.  I'm curious to know why you think the updates are 'not trivial', guess looking at the code myself is the best way to answer that and note that DVC has a nice new shiny wallet, one might want to cross diff their changes in this regard to speed up the IXC upgrade.  Also the latest NMC wallet is working great too...  (both merge mined with BTC)

@Vlad - sorry about the confusion, agree its ultra cheap here and did not intend on leading you or anyone to believe I was proposing anything otherwise, nor that the number of decimal places needs to be increased for either coin.  All I'm saying is 1 BTC is not likely to be equal to 1 IXC, of the two, Bitcoin obviously has won the beauty contest, yet IXC has some natural value, its between 0 and 1.  As long as they are twins, there need not be a huge difference between the two as expressed by peoples continued confidence in using them interchangeably as equals.  If the twins are nearly the same, by virtue of the code base, hash rate etc....and one is cheaper, which one would you buy?   

Back on my attempt to discuss decimal places, let me use an example, if I'm on CEX and want to transfer 0.010 bitcoin to another trading acct or my personal wallet, they still expect me to cover the 0.001 withdrawal fee, a HUGE percentage of what value I'm trying to move (10%), IXC is now there and by simply paying the small trade fee to convert the bitcoin down to a level that the withdrawal fee is near nothing, makes allot of sense.   

Let me try to do the math on this example using tonights price on IXC:  0.010 / ~0.00007 = 142.857 IXC, the withdrawal fee is still 0.001, but this time its denominated in IXC, so the equivalent cost to me for that withdrawal would be 0.00000007 bitcoin!  We're talking 7 satoshi, not 100000, sure saved allot of money on that withdrawal & sure this same approach can be used with other coins too (on CEX there is NMC & LTC right now), but IXC can/could lend itself to having the lowest fee & the personal confidence level remain high because of the tightly shared technology between the two, that is something no other coin can claim.

The scrolls have yet to be written on the topic, anyway that is all I was really trying to get at by saying 'taking bitcoin to 12 decimal places'.  I want to see IXC find a good price and have great buy/sell strength in both directions, whatever the price maybe, if anybody can get that to happen its the traders inside of CEX.  We need to get our gal looking pretty & dance her around the halls abit, before she gets to old and can't put out anymore!

[Vlad2Vlad]

GroundRod,

You bring up yet one more use and advantage for iXcoin which I haven't thought of.

And I'm sure the same principle can be used for smaller transactions as the Bitcoin fees will be too large.

Thanks!

[kraizi]

@kraizi - Thanks for that, was just about to speak on that very thing (merged mining), without knowing the specific details I was of the opinion it would be critical to keep intact while upgrading this wallet.  I'm curious to know why you think the updates are 'not trivial', guess looking at the code myself is the best way to answer that and note that DVC has a nice new shiny wallet, one might want to cross diff their changes in this regard to speed up the IXC upgrade.  Also the latest NMC wallet is working great too...  (both merge mined with BTC)

Changing the max number of coins produced by a crypto is one number and you're done.  Anyone can do it.  But, adding merged mining requires changes in a number of sub programs.  Obviously it can be done, but you need to know what you're doing.  It takes some time and dedication to get it right.  Very few devs have worked with it, and that may be why very few coins merge mine.  It's one of iXcoin's main advantages.

[kraizi]

if nmc, dev or i0 coin have not updated to 9.2 it is no copy and paste job with just a change in the magic numbers,
the aux pow has to be rewritten , certainly would be a challenge , i was looking over 9.2 and built it last weekend, many things have changed in btc and the current source of iX does not use the chainparams.h and chainparams.cpp style so its a big step.

When cinnamon talks about 'aux pow' she's talking about merged mining.  All the merge mined coins had their Proof of Work algorithm changed to share mining info with Bitcoin.  Since POW algorithms are the core of the security scheme you need to get it right.

[ahmed_bodi]

if nmc, dev or i0 coin have not updated to 9.2 it is no copy and paste job with just a change in the magic numbers,
the aux pow has to be rewritten , certainly would be a challenge , i was looking over 9.2 and built it last weekend, many things have changed in btc and the current source of iX does not use the chainparams.h and chainparams.cpp style so its a big step.

When cinnamon talks about 'aux pow' she's talking about merged mining.  All the merge mined coins had their Proof of Work algorithm changed to share mining info with Bitcoin.  Since POW algorithms are the core of the security scheme you need to get it right.

I disagree cinnamon. Why Not use The I0Coin v8.* branch fork it to support IXCoin and then regularly pull in BTC's updates from their repo. That is exactly what rsnel has been doing on I0Coin and if it works for them there is little reason for it not working for IXCoin

[cinnamon_carter]

honestly I am not familiar with where i0 coins development is right now although I have a few i0 coins laying around

If i0 is current with btc then it would be a much easier job to update iX to the 9.2 client.

I am not the person who is working on that so my comments were my own thoughts on how I would have to approach it.

The only differences  really from i0 and ix i know of are the difficulty retarget system, magic number value, block spacing, reward system ect.....

iX seems to be much more in use and traded/mined ect..... higher difficulty too last time I checked

[ahmed_bodi]

honestly I am not familiar with where i0 coins development is right now although I have a few i0 coins laying around

If i0 is current with btc then it would be a much easier job to update iX to the 9.2 client.

I am not the person who is working on that so my comments were my own thoughts on how I would have to approach it.

The only differences  really from i0 and ix i know of are the difficulty retarget system, magic number value, block spacing, reward system ect.....

iX seems to be much more in use and traded/mined ect..... higher difficulty too last time I checked

i0 is more current with BTC than any other merge mined coin correct. So thats why i think that should be used.  It would also make upgrading to the 9.2 client the easiest

[kraizi]

honestly I am not familiar with where i0 coins development is right now although I have a few i0 coins laying around

If i0 is current with btc then it would be a much easier job to update iX to the 9.2 client.

I am not the person who is working on that so my comments were my own thoughts on how I would have to approach it.

The only differences  really from i0 and ix i know of are the difficulty retarget system, magic number value, block spacing, reward system ect.....

iX seems to be much more in use and traded/mined ect..... higher difficulty too last time I checked

i0 is more current with BTC than any other merge mined coin correct. So thats why i think that should be used.  It would also make upgrading to the 9.2 client the easiest

i0coin was used as a baseline for the latest iXcoin client.  Both wallets are at v0.8.6.  I haven't seen v0.9.2 yet.  i0coin dev site still shows 0.8.6-1 as lastest http://i0coin.snel.it/

[kraizi]

It would be great for iXcoin to take the lead among the merge mined coins to stay synced with Bitcoin, but so far we haven't.  At the moment, I think it's more of a priority to get the Counterparty update released.  That would set iXcoin apart from the other merge mined coins.  

[ahmed_bodi]

honestly I am not familiar with where i0 coins development is right now although I have a few i0 coins laying around

If i0 is current with btc then it would be a much easier job to update iX to the 9.2 client.

I am not the person who is working on that so my comments were my own thoughts on how I would have to approach it.

The only differences  really from i0 and ix i know of are the difficulty retarget system, magic number value, block spacing, reward system ect.....

iX seems to be much more in use and traded/mined ect..... higher difficulty too last time I checked

i0 is more current with BTC than any other merge mined coin correct. So thats why i think that should be used.  It would also make upgrading to the 9.2 client the easiest

i0coin was used as a baseline for the latest iXcoin client.  Both wallets are at v0.8.6.  I haven't seen v0.9.2 yet.  i0coin dev site still shows 0.8.6-1 as lastest http://i0coin.snel.it/

yeah im aware of that. (im using that client myself on my merged mining pool) That just means theres no reason for it being hard to upgrade to v0.9.2 by following the bitcoin versions from 0.8.6 ti 0.9.2

[GroundRod]

Ok where is frictionlesscoin?

...after reading those latest posts (mucho thanks people) figured ignore the extreme danger warning on his 8.6 wallet and install it on top of my 0.3 wallet after a backup.  We need to get this changed asap on:
http://www.ixcoin.co/?page_id=21

iXcoin 0.8.6
This implementation is still undergoing testing.  Please use with extreme caution.

Hell I never bothered, after reading that----until now.


@theMoment...My IXCoin wallet is reindexing from disk, so far this 8.6 upgrade is working flawlessly....a big improvement over the 0.3 code I've been using all this time. 

@kraizi - Not sure I agree that a Counterparty update is more important right now, some (most?) of us are still on the v0.3 code clients.  What I want right now is coin control and a new logo....

upgrade complete...IXC now on Block 214155...my new wallet upgrade appears to be ready and willing. 
IXCoin llines of code from main.cpp:

Code:

//Hard limit to 21M Ixcoins
	if (nHeight >= 227499)
		nSubsidy = 0;
		
    return nSubsidy + nFees;

...very few blocks left to mine.

Ok could be totally messed up here, but been looking at these merged mining aux pow & then the newer chainparams.cpp/h coding issues and thinking crap, that does look like it could be THE most important upgrade part to get absolutely right....it was also starting to look like allot of work.  So just now downloaded Frictionlesscoin's version of the source and will start to get an idea of what that version level of things looks like, just guessing that what your saying is there is an 8.6 version of bitcoin that is still well maintained, this is what most developers have been using, bitcoin 9.2 introduces a new level software interface & things like merged mining just hasnt been brought up to the newest standard, or perhaps it has in the I0 coin, nobody knows where that source might be found?

Does that sound about right?  I'm still wondering, because after looking at Namecoin's latest source and then Devcoin's as well, it appeared to me that neither coin source has upgraded their code to more than that 8.6 level, neither appear to be using the new chainparams.cpp/h coding conventions anyway.  For me this has become a crash coarse in crypto code history.

GR

[ahmed_bodi]

I0Coin has been updated to 0.8.6 and so has IXCoin what i was saying was the reason I0Coin is now quite easy to update is rsnel pulls in updates from BTC in small batches a version at a time and applied it to I0C to upgrade it. The IXC dev should be doing the same as it should reduce the work needed to bring IXC to as close to inline with BTC as possible