[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread

[kleeck]

How much did we lose on the Avalons?  

Where is eASIC's press release?

Will ACTM ever tape-out?  

Is there a problem with the BTC conversion?

These are valid concerns with the influx of new ASIC manufacturers in the market.

Every day that passes ACTM loses their edge on quicker delivery.

There's been enough time now that we should have more information.

1) Avalons are not "lost", ActM just didn't receive them yet, same as everybody else, so the total network hashrate didn't increase as much as it could have if those chips had all been delivered to every Avalon customer.

2) eAsic's PR will be released as soon as possible ofc

3) ActM doesn't "tape-out" in the conventional IC serial development sense, wafer manufacturing can be started in paralell to chip design, this is one of the key eAsic advantages

4) Why should there be one? Signing a $1M deal is not flipping a switch.

I appreciate your answer, but your tone seems worn down and angry. I'm not the enemy like you consider iCEBREAKER, but I won't blindly defend a company while others rise around them.

1.) Lost regarding revenue, not "where are the chips". The hashrate increased a lot more than I think people expected from "Non-Avalon" related miners coming online. Also I believe this was supposed to generate more revenue for ACTM and help with costs (Is ACTM doing alright without this?) Also where (Or near where) on this list is ACTMs Chips https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiLYkKIHJaIsdHpIaGdUOWRYVUdncTNpNlVKbVhCbEE#gid=0 This should give us a more definitive answer as to when chips should come.

2.) I'd like an official statement on this.

3.) This is common knowledge, please don't assume that because we ask question we must be stupid. You know exactly what is meant when the word "Tape-out" is used with regarding ACTM.

4.) It's been about 3-4 Weeks now, I don't think anyone is saying it is easy as flipping a switch but enough time has passed now that it should be done or close.

We don't need Fluff in this thread, we need hard facts even if the answers are not what shareholders want to hear.

I'd rather have a "I don't know" than an answer that provides no substance or a speculated answer.

There are people interested in buying more shares but it's been so quiet lately and with the Avalon Delays having working Avalon "Boards" ready isn't very exciting (Group buys have had these ready for weeks now).

I have a substantial amount of shares and would love to see the price go up but the price won't go up until the speculation is gone and facts are put on the table. We need an updated timeline based on current situations.

His "tone"? He posted an informative response to the offered questions. I'd avoid trying to deduce "tone" from a clear response.

[Vbs]

I appreciate your answer, but your tone seems worn down and angry. I'm not the enemy like you consider iCEBREAKER, but I won't blindly defend a company while others rise around them.

1.) Lost regarding revenue, not "where are the chips". The hashrate increased a lot more than I think people expected from "Non-Avalon" related miners coming online. Also I believe this was supposed to generate more revenue for ACTM and help with costs (Is ACTM doing alright without this?) Also where (Or near where) on this list is ACTMs Chips https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiLYkKIHJaIsdHpIaGdUOWRYVUdncTNpNlVKbVhCbEE#gid=0 This should give us a more definitive answer as to when chips should come.

2.) I'd like an official statement on this.

3.) This is common knowledge, please don't assume that because we ask question we must be stupid. You know exactly what is meant when the word "Tape-out" is used with regarding ACTM.

4.) It's been about 3-4 Weeks now, I don't think anyone is saying it is easy as flipping a switch but enough time has passed now that it should be done or close.

We don't need Fluff in this thread, we need hard facts even if the answers are not what shareholders want to hear.

I'd rather have a "I don't know" than an answer that provides no substance or a speculated answer.

There are people interested in buying more shares but it's been so quiet lately and with the Avalon Delays having working Avalon "Boards" ready isn't very exciting (Group buys have had these ready for weeks now).

I have a substantial amount of shares and would love to see the price go up but the price won't go up until the speculation is gone and facts are put on the table. We need an updated timeline based on current situations.

My tone is not worn down or angry, if anything it's "tired" of repeating the same information. I don't cultivate enemies and certainly Icebreaker is not my enemy. I focus on discussing points, not persons.

1) "Lost regarding revenue" was exactly what I addressed. ActM is not receiving revenue from them, same as the rest of Avalon buyers, so the network total didn't also rise from everyone receiving those chips. It's all relative.

3) This is not common knowledge it seems. Anyone that really knows eAsic's process knows that "tape-out" is a non-issue. It does not represent any kind of bottleneck and it's achievement is mostly irrelevant on the overall pipeline. The chip design is not part of their critical path for manufacturing.

2) and 4) are still under NDA, so while you may not like it (understandable) there's really not much more to be said until the light goes green.

[Stuartuk]

1.) Lost regarding revenue, not "where are the chips". The hashrate increased a lot more than I think people expected from "Non-Avalon" related miners coming online. Also I believe this was supposed to generate more revenue for ACTM and help with costs (Is ACTM doing alright without this?) Also where (Or near where) on this list is ACTMs Chips https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiLYkKIHJaIsdHpIaGdUOWRYVUdncTNpNlVKbVhCbEE#gid=0 This should give us a more definitive answer as to when chips should come.

2.) I'd like an official statement on this.

3.) This is common knowledge, please don't assume that because we ask question we must be stupid. You know exactly what is meant when the word "Tape-out" is used with regarding ACTM.

4.) It's been about 3-4 Weeks now, I don't think anyone is saying it is easy as flipping a switch but enough time has passed now that it should be done or close.

You won't blindly defend a company fair enough but you will make the most ridiculous of demands and ask naive and ill thought out questions.

1) What exactly are you looking for? A figure in FIAT? It is blatantly obvious we have a delay with this supplier. What do you expect ACtM to do about it??? Do you want Ken to come on and say we have X amount of cash tied up with Avalon and no set delivery date? What does that achieve? It's OBVIOUS to everybody that is the case, he can do nothing about it, what is the point in him stating the OBVIOUS? By asking for this you want him to give out commercially sensitive info (cost of our Avalon order) but to settle what question? ACtM have no funding issues that we are aware of so where is your 'problem' about 'lost' revenue coming from? We will not know the theoretical loss in mining revenue from the delay until after the chips are delivered and even then what on earth would be the point in calculating how much we should have/could have/would have made???

2 This has been done TO DEATH. You are NOT getting an official statement on the eASIC deal until eSAIC give the go ahead now GET OVER IT.

3) You got a fair answer and choose to ignore the implications - once eASIC start on it the process will be super quick so comparing it to other competitors in the Tape out stage is like comparing apples and oranges.

4) It isn't done yet is the assumption to make. Do you want to know if it is or isn't done? Well tough lucky buddy that's commercially sensitive info. The less is said about that issue the more advantage we have over the competition. Ken and PR have both said it's in hand, that things are progressing well and we need to be patient and wait for the news - why don't you give that a try?

To save you from anymore misjudgement, my TONE here is one of ANGER and FRUSTRATION and INCREDULITY.

Please have a think before you post another set of demands for answers to commercially sensitive date. Better still why not fire off a similar request for funding and partnership info to Microsoft and see how far you get with the most successful outfit on the planet.

[zumzero]

We are all playing into iCEBREAKERS hands here.  He must be laughing his tits off.  Am I the only one who sees this? 

[Stuartuk]

How much did we lose on the Avalons?  

Wow guys are we really still paying attention to this imbecile of an attention seeking trouble maker? Please forget this guy already has has brought up the same old questions (certainly not valid concerns) and wants to see commercially sensitive info released. Want to know why? Because he isn't an ACtM shareholder - by his own admission he has sold all his shares, so he wants the info to see how it will effect his MiceDrill investment.

So the answer to his question is - nothing. He hasn't lost anything because he has no involvement with ACtM - except to spam their thread.
If the question was how much have ACtM shareholders lost the answer is also nil. We are way above IPO prices on both exchanges and the delay has effected all orders not just ours. If blaming ACtM for the Avalon is the new intelligent line of enquirery you have to worry about these people.

Really guys get over this kid, just ignore, a complete waste of space and a plant trying to cause trouble to benefit IceDrill.

----I'm now off to start a similar line of questioning on the IceDrill thread, anyone else with genuine concerns about IceDrill please do the same----

[Stuartuk]

We are all playing into iCEBREAKERS hands here.  He must be laughing his tits off.  Am I the only one who sees this? 

No not atall you can see right through him which is why I'm off to the IceDrill thread to see how he's getting on with all his money in IceDrill.

IceDrill - because mining Bitcoin involves drilling into ICE - maybe.

[zefyr0s]

Maybe it's a drill made out of ice?

[Stuartuk]

Maybe it's a drill made out of ice?

That at least would have novelty value which would probably make it a better long term investment than IceDrill.

[EskimoBob]

We are all playing into iCEBREAKERS hands here.  He must be laughing his tits off.  Am I the only one who sees this? 

It's so easy to invent all sorts of BS because the PR guy, Ken and the "board" are not releasing any information. Actually, they have not released any short nor high level long term plans with tasks, dates, costs etc - aka a fkn project plan for going from A to B. So what do you expect? 

So, every fuck-witt can come up with their own "news" and blabber on right here.

This is not a discussion thread, this is just another speculations thread.
What is the difference between "mindless speculations" and actual "discussion"?

Official announcement, project plan update, weekly report, monthly financial statements etc are published and people have a on-topic discussion about the released "news". This is what "The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread" should look like.

What's going on here, is "mindless speculation" and non-stop circle jerk. No news, no statements just blabbering about "I think they blaa blaa blaa".

And please, fuck off with comments like "they have more important stuff to do than report xyz". If you think like that, you have obviously never ever managed a large (or any) project in your life.

1) Have you seen any list of actual milestones (with dates!) set by the management?
2) Have you seen any cost estimates for achieving those milestones?
3) Have you seen any updates to those milestones?
4) Have you seen any "plan B" or even "C", if "A" fails?   
5) How much cash is spent as of today? Is it more or less than expected?

If the board is not demanding, from management, a clear high level (and detailed for short term) plan, they are incompetent and should return to jerking off in this forum.

Cheers!

[VinceSamios]

We are all playing into iCEBREAKERS hands here.  He must be laughing his tits off.  Am I the only one who sees this? 

It's so easy to invent all sorts of BS because the PR guy, Ken and the "board" are not releasing any information. Actually, they have not released any short nor high level long term plans with tasks, dates, costs etc - aka a fkn project plan for going from A to B. So what do you expect? 

So, every fuck-witt can come up with their own "news" and blabber on right here.

This is not a discussion thread, this is just another speculations thread.
What is the difference between "mindless speculations" and actual "discussion"?

Official announcement, project plan update, weekly report, monthly financial statements etc are published and people have a on-topic discussion about the released "news". This is what "The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread" should look like.

What's going on here, is "mindless speculation" and non-stop circle jerk. No news, no statements just blabbering about "I think they blaa blaa blaa".

And please, fuck off with comments like "they have more important stuff to do than report xyz". If you think like that, you have obviously never ever managed a large (or any) project in your life.

1) Have you seen any list of actual milestones (with dates!) set by the management?
2) Have you seen any cost estimates for achieving those milestones?
3) Have you seen any updates to those milestones?
4) Have you seen any "plan B" or even "C", if "A" fails?   
5) How much cash is spent as of today? Is it more or less than expected?

If the board is not demanding, from management, a clear high level (and detailed for short term) plan, they are incompetent and should return to jerking off in this forum.

Cheers!

LOL - don't pull any punches there fella.

I'm looking forward to the first shareholders meeting, and I'd love to know when it is :-) This is all from me, because forums are septic.

[zefyr0s]

I do take away from this that the board should put a little pressure on Ken for info.

I understand that Ken is afraid to say anything more now and break the NDA. Perhaps he could get in contact with someone at eAsic legal and remind them of the fact that he still needs to get some information out to his investors and his customers. He can't obviously release a timetable of expected developments related to this particular deal, but he definitely could lay out some contingencies, and some routes to take if this deal goes through, and if it doesn't. It's a pretty level playing field currently with respect to current/next gen ASIC tech. The only difference is how the management plans for the future up to and including the eventual severe decline in mining profitability ~2-3 years from now.

[ffssixtynine]

2.) I'd like an official statement on this.

I'm not sure what you're after. Ken, PR and now board members have all explained that nothing can be discussed re: eASIC due to NDA. Even the NDA itself has been shown. You can't get more official.

In addition to that, there are commercial considerations to consider so with all the asic companies you are not going to hear everything. Business is not conducted in public for very good reason. IPOed companies do need to let their shareholders know what's going on but not at the expense of the business itself. That only benefits short term traders, not the business and not long term shareholders.

Most of all, on all the asic threads it's a small handful of very vocal naysayers and supporters who bang heads together. That's a tiny, tiny minority of investors who are often being vocal for their own ends, to raise or lower the price of the shares immediately or to bring a competitor into disrepute.

4.) It's been about 3-4 Weeks now, I don't think anyone is saying it is easy as flipping a switch but enough time has passed now that it should be done or close.

And that information will be released when it's appropriate and when it can be.

We don't need Fluff in this thread, we need hard facts even if the answers are not what shareholders want to hear.

I'd rather have a "I don't know" than an answer that provides no substance or a speculated answer.

You have all the hard facts you can get at this point. There are no more to give. If you are not happy with that, sell your shares. If you are, keep them or buy more. Either way, ActiveMining's job is to get their hardware in production, not to release news every week, or indeed every few weeks, just to raise the share price. If it were, they could release all sorts of positive fluffy news designed to do just that.

There are people interested in buying more shares but it's been so quiet lately and with the Avalon Delays having working Avalon "Boards" ready isn't very exciting (Group buys have had these ready for weeks now).

I have a substantial amount of shares and would love to see the price go up but the price won't go up until the speculation is gone and facts are put on the table. We need an updated timeline based on current situations.

People can buy and sell shares how they want, but the short term price is only of interest to day traders. This was always a longer term investment for anyone else.

You are probably correct in saying that the price won't go up until the speculation is gone and facts are on the table. However, the facts will be public at the appropriate time. I'm sorry that this means the price may not go up until then but that's the nature of trading. It is not ActiveMining's problem in the short term. They raised their money to achieve a particular long term aim, and it's that long term share price and dividend that matters.

You are also correct perhaps re: Avalon boards yet many people had been asking for just that information so it was given.

EskimoBob, may I suggest that comments like your last one are the type that ask for you to be ignored. Please refrain from that abusive tone. Please also understand that you're dealing with some very experienced people, not some kids from college.

zefyr0s, the NDA is there for a good reason. He cannot break it and he cannot risk the business over it. This has all been considered and discussed.

There will be a shareholder meeting for large shareholders to discuss any issues directly with Ken in the future. For now, we need to let him complete the eASIC deal.

[adameb]

Would it be in violation of the NDA to discuss whether the btc collected in the IPO have been converted to fiat yet, and at what rates?  Or has that already been covered?

[ffssixtynine]

EDIT: Interesting to read BarGraphic's posts elsewhere - seems there is little point engaging with you on any thread, least of all an asic one. Added to ignore list.

It's crazy the amount on discontent on this thread even from board members.

As far as I'm concerned this thread is a joke and most of the people in it are the punchline.

I'm looking for credible answers, not answers from some person on the board member that doesn't even have to consult with other members before answering questions. It might as well come from Stuartuk (That laughing stock of this forum).

The board as it stands right now is made up of 1 or 2 smart individuals and the rest are just clowns that want insider information.

I personally don't care if this post is criticized as it is 100% correct and sometimes the truth hurts so I can understand the need for a rebuttal.

You should be instantly removed from the board if you are asking people to sell shares if they are unhappy as I'd expect this from some random Twat on the internet but not a board member.

I won't criticise your post as you can say what you like. Nor are any board members even remotely discontent with ActiveMining. I answered your comments with the facts as they stand. I understand if you don't like them but I can't change them I'm afraid.

You can also do what you like with your shares, I'm not asking anyone to buy or sell them. I am saying that it is your choice what you do, and if you are unhappy then you can sell, and if you're happy then you can hold or buy. It's your investment to do with as you wish.

Adameb: At this point it's not been possible to discuss anything related to the post IPO->eASIC deal. As soon as that changes, PR will post accordingly

[zumzero]

It's been 33 Days since the "Funding Goal" for the NRE has been met.

Only ~320 BTC per day needed to be traded to cashout the 1M USD.

It's been 26 Days since the eASIC meeting.

I think it's time we get an update from ACTIVEMINING-PR or Ken about how the funds are doing at the very least.

Using this information it's logical to assume the funds have been converted into US dollars.

I do not understand the need for confirmation knowing that doing so would lead to Bargraphics then asking, "But if they have been converted, why hasn't the deal been signed already?".  And so on.

EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-disclosure_agreement

[Mabsark]

EDIT: Interesting to read BarGraphic's posts elsewhere - seems there is little point engaging with you on any thread, least of all an asic one. Added to ignore list.

Well, it's a good job Ken never made you the PR person.

[VolanicEruptor]

this is getting so exciting I'm going to piss 

[VinceSamios]

Would it be in violation of the NDA to discuss whether the btc collected in the IPO have been converted to fiat yet, and at what rates?  Or has that already been covered?

Having read the NDA...

Technically there is no reason why ActM can't let us know the status of the conversion of BTC to USD, which we know to be for the purpose of developing an ASIC, since technically this is completely separate to discussions with eASIC. - what ActM can't do is tell us this is destined for eASIC, however we will all assume this is the case. Because some knowledge is freely available, and considering hands have already been slapped, its fair for ActM not to tell us the funds have been converted because we all know what that actually means in regards to eASIC, and really we don't want to piss anyone off.

I'm just as keen as everyone else to hear more news, but the bottom line is Ken et al are not here to move the share price, they are here to deliver a dividend.

[finlof]

one point (although it might be a perceived one) that icebreaker makes is that it is probably worth it for ActiveMining to scrap the avalon clone assembly and take those chips/materials/clones and sell them sooner than later.  ActiveMining might actually be able to sell them for a profit (or hopefully break even at least).  and then not have the infrastructure costs (racks, power, etc) to have to cover for those machines, nor have to deal with the rising difficulty that reduces any payout these will give.  even if that means that the dividends wont go up, if you are indeed in this long-term then the short-term dividend increase is LITERALLY pennies, and when compared to either reinvesting that capital elsewhere or returning it to shareholders seems to be unwise.  it would seem that would be a strategy/idea to at least discuss and/or put up to shareholder vote.  if we all believe in the long-term viability of ActiveMining then it will come from it's own chips, not some old technology that prob wont have an ROI.

[VolanicEruptor]

If the Avalon chips were to be sold off, they would most definitely be transferred through dividends..