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Author Topic: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s  (Read 865630 times)
BitCoin Operated Boy
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May 24, 2014, 04:10:45 PM
 #9561

@Puppet, you seem to be knowledgeable. Thus my question: Why would anyone want to buy them at $1/GH? The price of a complete miner in stock with half the efficiency?

Where can you buy complete miners in stock for $1/GH? Cheapest seems to be antminer S1 at ~$1.25/GH but also at half the efficiency of HF boards. Spoonsomething is a closer comparison, but they are charging $2/GH for their miners. Regardless, even if market price where only $0.5/GH or a little below that, it still seems like the inventory alone would more than cover the outstanding debt, with the company having the potential to produce a lot more for profit.

Quote
Peppermining, as per allegations, is buying them at $0.38/GH. Unloading 40k chips at that price would make everyone happy, but I don't think it's gonna happen. We need money and to make boards, and we need to make it fast. And we need that trustee, too, fast.  I don't think I will be able to stand to listen to their lawyers lies for long.

If you dont have money, but you do have working chips and a working board design, the solution seems rather obvious; go the asicminer route, and supply chips and license your boards. To be fair to hashfast, that seems to be what they are doing lately.


Spoondoolies-Tech has SP30 August 2nd Batch for $1/GH

or SP10 May Batch for $2/GH
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cedivad
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May 24, 2014, 04:14:27 PM
 #9562

Come on perezoso, you are acting like Edward now, "you bought a full miner, now take this useless chip". I understand that we are all gonna fight each one another for every penny (and bit), but let's try to postpone that to when we will have to do that, and let's all work together for now, no?

If LB's deals is to build (say) 20k boards asap, with half of the revenue back to us (instead of only 25%), that's probably something we should take, imho. You then focus on the other half of the chips, some cash will come in, we will invest something ourselves, we will find a way to capitalise it.

@Puppet, I don't think that we can make the "AM model" scale for HF in our strict timeframe and conditions. Sure, you will sell some, but you will find yourself with 90% of the stock unsold. That's also why it's almost impossible to sell chips; sure, you might sell some for $250-400, but you will be a long way off from depleting your stock, that will be useless in way less than 90 days as LB claims, imho. We need a load of cash, full point. (as always, imho).

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
Puppet
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May 24, 2014, 04:15:53 PM
 #9563

If you erased all the debt off the books and screwed everybody here except those looking to profit from the carcass, then that plan would possibly allow Hashfast to go ahead as a viable business.  

Im not sure I see that. I never suggested wiping all the debt of the books (which is not what chapter 11 does, thats what chapter 7 does), but it appears to me that HF's assets are worth more than its debt, and it has potential to produce a lot more than that through its IP. Protecting it from its creditors for some time, seems to me precisely what is needed for HF to realize their potential, allowing them to eventually make good on their debts. Well, there is the little issue of less than trustworthy management, but the basis for a solution seems to be there.  Ill leave it to the "adults" to find a way to actually implement it, but my point is basically that bankruptcy would be worse than chapter 11. If they are declared bankrupt, it would constitute an enormous loss of potential revenue from their IP. You'd be slaughtering the chicken for its meat, while it lays golden eggs.

perezoso
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May 24, 2014, 04:26:42 PM
 #9564


VMC is already positioned for mass board manufacturing. See below:

http://virtualminingcorp.com/shop1/index.php?id_product=43&controller=product


No fan of VMC, but if they're real, well then, why not just form a small miners coop, take the chips, and collectively negotiate assembly by VMC (or other bidders, if any) onto boards?

Put them into Ch 11 with a trustee. Distribute chips:

Unpaid BJ MPP = 5 chips.
Unpaid Upgrade board = 1 chip.
Unpaid Sierra = 3 chips.
Etc.

If you agreed to kick money back to Hashfast, the chips you receive are discounted accordingly.

If there are chips left over, these are distributed on a curve according to who has been waiting the longest.

Yoli design, suppliers, etc is published, or available to any customer (really, available to any legit assembler).

HF ceases to exist.  Some of them hopefully go to jail.

Small guys band together and collectively negotiate assembly for all of their chips with VMC and any other offerors, which might include Liquidbits or its contractor, if it has really tooled up for the job.

cedivad
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May 24, 2014, 04:28:40 PM
 #9565

No fan of VMC, but if they're real, well then, why not just form a small miners coop, take the chips, and collectively negotiate assembly by VMC (or other bidders, if any) onto boards?
You are failing on me... You don't need VMC, you don't want to have anything to do with VMC, and you probably want to sue the hell out of VMC.
VMC adds exactly zero value to our case. It subtracts it.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
perezoso
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May 24, 2014, 04:33:31 PM
 #9566

If LB's deals is to build (say) 20k boards asap, with half of the revenue back to us (instead of only 25%), that's probably something we should take, imho. You then focus on the other half of the chips, some cash will come in, we will invest something ourselves, we will find a way to capitalise it.

If liquidbits steps forward to do this on reasonable terms, then that's possible too.

What I don't think is possible is for a bunch of guys on a forum to create a viable manufacturing process in no time flat.  We'll need to rely on somebody that can do it, and we'll probably need collective leverage.

I want Hashfast dead.  I want no part of any deal going forward that enables Simon and company to salvage a viable enterprise.  Right now they are angling to do that and will viciously resist a court-appointed trustee under Chapter 11.  With everyone in the courtroom professing no knowledge of how bitcoins work, Simon will say that only he understands the business well enough to salvage it, and the judge will be sympathetic.

I'm just wondering out loud if divvying the chips up isn't better.  If the creditors said, "screw Simon's reorganization plan, we want the chips divvied up fairly", then they'd have a hard time resisting that pressure.  The other assets, IP, etc, can be sold and proceeds divided.
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May 24, 2014, 04:35:28 PM
 #9567

No fan of VMC, but if they're real, well then, why not just form a small miners coop, take the chips, and collectively negotiate assembly by VMC (or other bidders, if any) onto boards?
You are failing on me... You don't need VMC, you don't want to have anything to do with VMC, and you probably want to sue the hell out of VMC.
VMC adds exactly zero value to our case. It subtracts it.

You and me and few other guys on this forum are not going to create a viable production line overnight.  It's going to have to be somebody with the capability to do it.  I hate VMC too, but if they are able...  I'd rather have liquidbits, if they are able, but the size of their illegitmate chip claim rules them out.  They'd have to come to Jesus and come to more reasonable terms with the other creditors.

But to be clear, the chip divvying scenario, in my head, is predicated upon the absolute and final death of Hashfast and stripping of the management of any proceeds.
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May 24, 2014, 04:41:37 PM
 #9568

what are the chances that we can get our money back?

BTC: 1DREAMcn1ELY1cSnNwrjRazGqfW1NyvLJu    DigitalOcean Reg: https://www.digitalocean.com/?refcode=bd7f576a880a
Coinbase: http://bit.ly/1jc0dpQ
Cloud Hashing: https://www.hashyun.com/?f=u86
cedivad
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May 24, 2014, 04:42:06 PM
 #9569

You and me and few other guys on this forum are not going to create a viable production line overnight.
It doesn't work that way. VMC didn't "created a manufacturing line". They are using the same exact manufacturer HF used, paid them, and magic comes out of that. As simple as that.
You only need money. You need money for the pcb (that is the longest lead time component and that we should then pay asap), you need money to order the components, you need money to place the components, you need money to program and to test the boards, you need money for logistics, etc.

I understand that you want to see HF die, but that's not the way you are gonna get value out of it. They will have what they deserve anyway.

And we will get our trustee, there is no way in the world HF is gonna proceed by its own.

LB is not going to receive 30k chips, everyone knows it, and the "chip divvying scenario" is the worst way possible to get value out of HF. Jesus.

what are the chances that we can get our money back?

If that will happen, it won't be anytime soon, so say goodbye to it for now and hope for the future.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
perezoso
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May 24, 2014, 04:59:20 PM
 #9570

You and me and few other guys on this forum are not going to create a viable production line overnight.
It doesn't work that way. VMC didn't "created a manufacturing line". They are using the same exact manufacturer HF used, paid them, and magic comes out of that. As simple as that.
You only need money. You need money for the pcb (that is the longest lead time component and that we should then pay asap), you need money to order the components, you need money to place the components, you need money to program and to test the boards, you need money for logistics, etc.

I understand that you want to see HF die, but that's not the way you are gonna get value out of it. They will have what they deserve anyway.

And we will get our trustee, there is no way in the world HF is gonna proceed by its own.

LB is not going to receive 30k chips, everyone knows it, and the "chip divvying scenario" is the worst way possible to get value out of HF. Jesus.


Okay, then Hashfast/VMC's contractor.  The point is not who makes them, the point is that the boards are made on a contract basis by somebody who is competent.  The board maker gets $ for supplies and a pedestrian profit.  Then the assembled boards are ours.  I'm not talking about turning everything over to them to sell.

Look, it's an imperfect world.  

If, in a few days, Simon is successfully dislodged and a court-appointed manager takes over, then I think your scenarios are okay, but you need to be realistic.  I don't think that a court-appointed manager is going to run Hashfast like an entrepreneur overdosed on caffeine.  That person is probably going to want to take a couple weeks to get their bearings, weeks during which s/he'll be trying to figure out where all the fucking money went and what assets beyond the chips that they have, and you'll start screaming at them for allowing value to dissipate, and during which (on our present course), there will be intense wrangling about who owns what proportion of the assets.  In this situation, can you expect a manager to walk into a company s/he doesn't know and immediately commit all its resources to some sort of Hashfast 2.0 to turn out 40,000 boards overnnight?  I don't think that's realistic.

But it's not clear that Simon will actually be deposed. He's planning on trying to lead the company in Chapter 11.  Just wait.  On Wednesday there will be more talk about how this business is incomprehensible except to insiders like Simon, and Eddie may start to get blame heaped on him.  We're a new Hashfast, the attorney will argue, and you don't have anybody with Simon's skills, and we've got a plan....



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May 24, 2014, 05:07:34 PM
 #9571

So why don't you detail for us where you think all the money went?   They seem to only have bought chips, so where did the other 20 Million or so go?


I am not really qualified to do much more than speculate. First off, I'm sure 20 million did not actually come in.  Many of the largest deals had staged payments upon delivery. And where is that number coming from anyways? Someone's linkedin profile?


Name the 'many' large deals with staged payments.  So far we have:

Icedrill  $2M in advance
ineedausername $1.1M in advance
Liquidbits $6M in advance
Koi $300k in advance
100s of individual orders, all in advance

You are very clearly a shill trying to sow confusion to the benefit of yourself.  I've seen that gambit used by Hashfast over a dozen times so far.
cedivad
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May 24, 2014, 05:17:13 PM
 #9572

What's wrong with barber as the "entrepreneur overdosed with caffeine" and the trustee supervisioning what happens, reporting to us, etc?

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
perezoso
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May 24, 2014, 05:18:12 PM
 #9573

What's wrong with barber as the "entrepreneur overdosed with caffeine" and the trustee supervisioning what happens, reporting to us, etc?

Because there's no money in it for him.  And I'd rather see the chips dumped the Pacific Ocean than see that guy come out of this alive.  

And the judge seems more responsive to Liquidbits than anybody else.  And Liquidbits doesn't care about us.

Or, if they do, maybe they should make that known.
cedivad
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May 24, 2014, 05:20:36 PM
 #9574

And I'd rather see the chips dumped the Pacific Ocean than see that guy come out of this alive.
If you were in that list above you wouldn't. And barber still has an interest at minimising our losses to lower the future actions against them as individuals.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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May 24, 2014, 05:22:44 PM
 #9575

I want Hashfast dead.  I want no part of any deal going forward that enables Simon and company to salvage a viable enterprise.  

Now at least you speak clearly. I have no sympathy for its management, but killing a viable company is not in the best financial interest of its creditors. Im sure a judge will see it that way too. Wouldnt it be better to replace castro & co and allow the company to achieve its potential?
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May 24, 2014, 05:24:12 PM
 #9576

And I'd rather see the chips dumped the Pacific Ocean than see that guy come out of this alive.
If you were in that list above you wouldn't. And barber still has an interest at minimising our losses to lower the future actions against them as individuals.

Barber wants to sell chips.  You want to keep him in command, but not allow him to follow his Chapter 11 plan?  How is that going to work?  We kept you as CEO but your opinion doesn't matter?


I want Hashfast dead.  I want no part of any deal going forward that enables Simon and company to salvage a viable enterprise.  

Now at least you speak clearly. I have no sympathy for its management, but killing a viable company is not in the best financial interest of its creditors. Im sure a judge will see it that way too. Wouldnt it be better to replace castro & co and allow the company to achieve its potential?

Read carefully:  I want no part of any deal going forward that enables Simon and company to salvage a viable enterprise.  Eddie is already gone, if you haven't been following the news.  And Simon is about to start framing him as the fall guy.
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May 24, 2014, 05:28:22 PM
 #9577

Barber wants to sell chips.  You want to keep him in command, but not allow him to follow his Chapter 11 plan?  How is that going to work?  We kept you as CEO but your opinion doesn't matter?
Who said that, to start with? It's what they did until now, but now everyone wants to help, to invests, "LB has a plaaaaannn", etc. He will have to do something else when he sees that the market isn't ready to accept 40k chips ad a price higher than $10/each, right?

I understad all of the hate. I do, I really do. But let's try to save what can be saved instead of killing us each one another.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
perezoso
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May 24, 2014, 05:32:21 PM
 #9578

Barber wants to sell chips.  You want to keep him in command, but not allow him to follow his Chapter 11 plan?  How is that going to work?  We kept you as CEO but your opinion doesn't matter?
Who said that, to start with? It's what they did until now, but now everyone wants to help, to invests, "LB has a plaaaaannn", etc. He will have to do something else when he sees that the market isn't ready to accept 40k chips ad a price higher than $10/each, right?

I understad all of the hate. I do, I really do. But let's try to save what can be saved instead of killing us each one another.

Who said that?  They are screaming out loud to the masses.  The intel of bitcoin mining.  Please, judge, don't restrict our ability to sell chips.  Come on, this is their plan.

Wait, and then you say he will do something else?  You're giving him the latitude to call the shots?  Last post you were hemming him in.

Look, I'm not at all against what you want, Cedivad, I think we want about the same thing, I'm just trying to be realistic.
cedivad
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May 24, 2014, 05:36:25 PM
 #9579

Find me a better solution that doesn't include throwing everything in the middle of the ocean and you won.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
perezoso
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May 24, 2014, 05:40:33 PM
 #9580

Find me a better solution that doesn't include throwing everything in the middle of the ocean and you won.

You don't have a solution, you have unrealistic expectations of the bankruptcy process.  Listen, I would love it if you were right, but Hashfast will not be able to make 40,000 complete boards overnight, not under Simon's leadership and not under a court appointed management.  Maybe the latter could do it eventually, but I doubt it.  Simon, well, he doesn't want to do that.  He wants to be the intel of bitcoin mining.  I don't think that you can leave him in the CEO chair and simultaneously dictate his actions through a creditor's committee, presuming that the majority of the creditors would even agree to Hashfast 2.0 making boards with Simon in charge.

I don't wanna fight. I'm just trying to think out loud about what kind of lemonade can be made with these lemons.
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