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Author Topic: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s  (Read 878360 times)
cedivad
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June 26, 2014, 08:33:40 AM
 #9941

So we sat through ~2 hours of firms pitching their materials this morning and a few hours later, long story short, the majority of us (including me) voted  for Ashley M. McDow of BakerHostetler who will now be representing the creditors' committee as counsel. Tomorrow we are deciding and voting on committee bylaws.
Great. What will be your first steps once Ashley is appointed?

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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June 26, 2014, 11:14:15 AM
 #9942

So we sat through ~2 hours of firms pitching their materials this morning and a few hours later, long story short, the majority of us (including me) voted  for Ashley M. McDow of BakerHostetler who will now be representing the creditors' committee as counsel. Tomorrow we are deciding and voting on committee bylaws.
Great. What will be your first steps once Ashley is appointed?

There is a court hearing scheduled for tomorrow (June 27th) where several motions filed by Hashfast will be heard.  The first order of business will be to discuss how to respond to those.
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June 26, 2014, 01:48:44 PM
 #9943

Hey guy can someone tell me what to do with bankruptcy court mail in private or here Thanks !! Im not english or us and its bit hard for me to understand law letter !

Regards

Ordered 4 sierra in december...
Have you receieved bankruptcy court mail? I have not received any so far Shocked

I have filled nothing but i receive mail in my postbox sent 13 june from USA Bankruptcy Court. I think they send it to all people listed in refund hashfast list here https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4g8D3nvEYDzajhuTzJTWmZWM3c/edit


Any action require about this mail Huh

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June 26, 2014, 02:02:17 PM
 #9944

Hey guy can someone tell me what to do with bankruptcy court mail in private or here Thanks !! Im not english or us and its bit hard for me to understand law letter !

Regards

Ordered 4 sierra in december...
Have you receieved bankruptcy court mail? I have not received any so far Shocked

I have filled nothing but i receive mail in my postbox sent 13 june from USA Bankruptcy Court. I think they send it to all people listed in refund hashfast list here https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4g8D3nvEYDzajhuTzJTWmZWM3c/edit


Any action require about this mail Huh

what is the content in the mail?

For security, your account has been locked. Email acctcomp15@theymos.e4ward.com
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June 26, 2014, 04:36:27 PM
 #9945

I filed a claim for unpaid Batch 1 MPP today.  I valued it at $6000 per Babyjet, calculated as 4 x BJ upgrade card @ $1500 each.  I hope that others with the MPP will do likewise.  This is in addition to the claim for the undelivered paid upgrade card claimed in the initial Chapter 7 filing.

I hope that whoever is reviewing the filed claims for the court will be at least somewhat familiar with Hashfast's sales model.  Because my MPP claim might look like a BJ claim, which it is not (they delivered the BJ, albeit late).  Hopefully the court will get it straight that each Batch 1 BJ, and some Batch 2 machines, were sold with the MPP and that, at least in the case of Batch 1 (I didn't follow the others), the full (4x) MPP was triggered but never delivered.





cedivad
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June 26, 2014, 06:24:45 PM
 #9946

I will play devil's advocate here, just for a second.

The MPP wasn't sold with a clear delivery date. If you want, it was, but the wording was studied to be argued by their lawyers later. Without delivery date, you don't have a way to value the boards, and thus, no valid claim.

What is depressing to think about is that if they delivered to us the MPP chips (and not boards) in January, we would have made our investment back with a minimal additional expense.

But they felt like they needed those chip themselves, and that we couldn't have them even by paying the boards costs.

Depressing.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
vokain
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June 26, 2014, 06:34:10 PM
 #9947

However, if you paid for MPP , I feel like you're at least entitled to that amount. Therefore, for Batch 1 customers with MPP included, they should at least be entitled to that same dollar value by the company.

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cedivad
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June 26, 2014, 06:44:09 PM
 #9948

However, if you paid for MPP , I feel like you're at least entitled to that amount. Therefore, for Batch 1 customers with MPP included, they should at least be entitled to that same dollar value by the company.
And don't forget that they will claim that they gifted the MPP to the big majority of their first batch customers, that haven't actually paid for it.
Don't take me wrong, I think that claim to have basis, but I also don't think it will be an easy one.

I see that they spent 100k on lawyers during the last month alone (it's in the latest documents). Will it be possible to do anything to limit them from spending our money to defend their interests?

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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June 26, 2014, 06:46:39 PM
 #9949

I will play devil's advocate here, just for a second.

The MPP wasn't sold with a clear delivery date. If you want, it was, but the wording was studied to be argued by their lawyers later. Without delivery date, you don't have a way to value the boards, and thus, no valid claim.

What is depressing to think about is that if they delivered to us the MPP chips (and not boards) in January, we would have made our investment back with a minimal additional expense.

But they felt like they needed those chip themselves, and that we couldn't have them even by paying the boards costs.

Depressing.
Yes. Of all the claims out there the MPP is likely the weakest. On the flip side the MPP pretty much provides all the evidence for fraudulent intent there is, because it shows that they tried really hard to scam people out of their bitcoins.

The ASICMINER Project https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99497.0
"The way you solve things is by making it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing.", Milton Friedman
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June 26, 2014, 06:46:49 PM
 #9950

However, if you paid for MPP , I feel like you're at least entitled to that amount. Therefore, for Batch 1 customers with MPP included, they should at least be entitled to that same dollar value by the company.
And don't forget that they will claim that they gifted the MPP to the big majority of their first batch customers, that haven't actually paid for it.
Don't take me wrong, I think that claim to have basis, but I also don't think it will be an easy one.

I see that they spent 100k on lawyers during the last month alone (it's in the latest documents). Will it be possible to do anything to limit them from spending our money to defend their interests?

discussing now

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June 27, 2014, 06:40:16 AM
 #9951

I filed a claim for unpaid Batch 1 MPP today.  I valued it at $6000 per Babyjet, calculated as 4 x BJ upgrade card @ $1500 each.  I hope that others with the MPP will do likewise. 

I did the same.
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June 27, 2014, 01:42:02 PM
 #9952

However, if you paid for MPP , I feel like you're at least entitled to that amount. Therefore, for Batch 1 customers with MPP included, they should at least be entitled to that same dollar value by the company.
And don't forget that they will claim that they gifted the MPP to the big majority of their first batch customers, that haven't actually paid for it.
Don't take me wrong, I think that claim to have basis, but I also don't think it will be an easy one.

I don't at all agree that there was a lack of a delivery date on the MPP nor that the absence of a specific date means you have "no valid claim".

On the contrary.  I ordered my BJ *after* the MPP was announced, and the MPP pledge of "up to 4x" hashrate was definitely part of what I bought.  Now, I will agree that Hashfast was slippery about the MPP delivery date and this makes valuation a little more difficult than other orders, but certainly Hashfast ackknowldged owing the whole 4x, and it was pledged to be delivered within the timeframe during which it was useful.  That was the whole point of the MPP.  

So, what does/did a board cost?  $1500 a few weeks later when they came up for sale.  I think that's a reasonable number.  I suppose an alternative approach would be to take the exact bitcoin earned by the BJ within the calculation period, and then subtract the USD value of that bitcoin from the purchase price.

So, for example, if I paid $5750 for my BJ, but the BJ only mined $1500 worth of BTC in the MPP calculation period, then I could value my claim at $4250?

At the end of the day whether the claim is for $6000 or something like $4250, I doubt that makes much difference.  The point is just maybe we could agree on a reasonable method for calculating it.  Thinking about it, I kind of like the Cost - Actual BTC mined in MPP period = Claim formula better than $6000.  I may amend my court claim.  I just don't know if I can accurately reconstruct the exact BTC value the BJ generated in the specified period.

But there's no question in my mind as to the legitimacy of the claim in principle.  The MPP was explcitly part of the package I bought.
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June 27, 2014, 03:03:28 PM
 #9953

One of the reasons why I refused that pity shipment in January is because of the unclear terms of the MPP. But you don't have to convince me, I'm with you Smiley

On the contrary.  I ordered my BJ *after* the MPP was announced, and the MPP pledge of "up to 4x" hashrate was definitely part of what I bought.  Now, I will agree that Hashfast was slippery about the MPP delivery date and this makes valuation a little more difficult than other orders, but certainly Hashfast ackknowldged owing the whole 4x, and it was pledged to be delivered within the timeframe during which it was useful.  That was the whole point of the MPP.  

So, what does/did a board cost?  $1500 a few weeks later when they came up for sale.  I think that's a reasonable number.  I suppose an alternative approach would be to take the exact bitcoin earned by the BJ within the calculation period, and then subtract the USD value of that bitcoin from the purchase price.

You didn't paid $1500 each per 4 boards. You were offered them. At an undefined date. So, they have an undefined value. You can't take a number out of it's context only because they were selling boards at that price (with an anticipated delivery date and a date after which, if undelivered, you could have asked for a refund (and only for a refund)). That's why I don't think the claim to be valid. But again, I don't want to argue this, I have no reason to.

Btw, hearing today.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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June 27, 2014, 03:40:07 PM
 #9954

Quote
Whether inadvertently or otherwise, the Debtors have failed to disclose the existence and/or the status of a number of accounts which are unique to the Bitcoin space, and which could contain Bitcoin, cash, or both.

I hope you to have proofs of this, because I don't.

Quote
Accordingly, the Committee requests that the Debtors disclose all information about their Bitcoin accounts, including, but not limited to: the Bitcoin wallet software, services or mechanisms they currently use and/or have used in the past; the Bit-pay accounts they use and/or have used in the past; the Bitcoin address(es) used to send, receive or store Bitcoin; all accounts with third-party Bitcoin wallet services, exchanges or payment processors; and all individuals and entities that have or had access to any Bitcoin account or wallet.

And I hope to have a copy of all of this.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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June 27, 2014, 03:43:32 PM
 #9955


At the end of the day whether the claim is for $6000 or something like $4250, I doubt that makes much difference.  The point is just maybe we could agree on a reasonable method for calculating it.  Thinking about it, I kind of like the Cost - Actual BTC mined in MPP period = Claim formula better than $6000.  I may amend my court claim.  I just don't know if I can accurately reconstruct the exact BTC value the BJ generated in the specified period.


This might help:
http://retrocalc.net/
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June 27, 2014, 05:41:29 PM
 #9956

some weeks after the first batch, the MPP was offered as an option and for a certain $ amount I don't remember and I'm too tired to look up. Maybe someone has that information and its a hint for its worth.
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June 27, 2014, 06:47:50 PM
 #9957

some weeks after the first batch, the MPP was offered as an option and for a certain $ amount I don't remember and I'm too tired to look up. Maybe someone has that information and its a hint for its worth.

I said this a few posts back but I don't quite recall the number either.

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June 27, 2014, 07:44:40 PM
 #9958

I did this tiresome and quite depressing trip back to the past (you won't believe how many hits a search for "mpp" gets in this thread) and dug out this, probably unrewarding information:

Here is a question about MPP v2:

A November Baby Jet costs $ 2760 without MPP and $ 4560 with MPP. This means the MPP costs $ 1800.

Quote
If the Bitcoin network hashrate increases so that your Baby Jet doesn’t generate more Bitcoins in ninety days than you paid for it, HashFast will give you additional ASICs.

What amount is covered by the MPP? $ 2760 for the BJ or $ 4560 for the BJ + MPP?
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June 27, 2014, 09:43:53 PM
 #9959

Reading Karpeles' q/a is a continued deja-vu...

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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June 28, 2014, 08:47:53 AM
Last edit: June 28, 2014, 09:20:15 AM by cedivad
 #9960

http://hashfast.org/14-30725.109.mp3

The interesting part is at around half, with their ridiculous "up to 1k chips per customers" without confronting with the committee, but don't worry, because they would try to get the court approval for more than 1k chips per customers. Or with siddiqui trying to complain and the judge calming it down.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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