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Author Topic: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s  (Read 865174 times)
iCEBREAKER
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August 30, 2014, 12:34:46 AM
 #10541

I'm sorry for saying this but 95% of the posts here are just pointless debates or pseudo-intellectual masturbation which doesn't bring any coherent and valuable information to the subject of "receiving our money back".
"receiving your money back" event will not happen, but there is still an useful purpose for continuing this discussion.

You could consider money paid to Hashfast a prepaid tuition in the school of hard kicks. And the CRO a dean of the curriculum on how to recognize a long con and how to avoid similar scams in the future.

I understand that the majority of Hashfast buyers/investors were simply compulsive gamblers (or compulsive investors), and for those continuing this thread is really a waste of time.

But I think I recognize many people who simply were naive and Hashfast simply took advantage of their naivete and giddiness after the (then recent) gains in the price of Bitcoin. Those are the people who skipped the boring accounting classes where they anesthetize students with stuff like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_of_credit .

I know that the school of hard kicks is unfair: only a few people paid the tuition but many more students can audition the coursework for free from the sidelines. Personally, as an non-paying student, I just want to learn some details on how to run a prepackaged bankruptcy scam in Silicon Valley. I'm also hoping to learn if cypherdoc was a paid roper who knew what he was doing or just another giddy naif.

When a risky high-tech Silicon Valley runs out of money and declares bankrupcy, it's a common and perfectly normal event.  Likewise for older and bigger firms.

No "prepackaged bankruptcy scam" would produce a chip like the GN1, which at well over 700GH/s is still by far the fastest BTC ASIC on the planet.

But yes, if you honestly believe buying a pre-order for a magical internet money generator (regardless of manufacturer) is a low or zero risk proposition, welcome to Investderr University.

Let's focus on how best to deal with the situation, not cry over spilt milk.

It took a year for Atari's plan to be approved, so lack of apparent progress in these matters is not unusual.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/206388/Ataris_bankruptcy_escape_plan_is_courtapproved.php


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
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August 30, 2014, 12:40:26 AM
 #10542

But Icetard, you promised!!!


I'm sorry for saying this but 95% of the posts here are just pointless debates or pseudo-intellectual masturbation which doesn't bring any coherent and valuable information to the subject of "receiving our money back".
"receiving your money back" event will not happen, but there is still an useful purpose for continuing this discussion.

You could consider money paid to Hashfast a prepaid tuition in the school of hard kicks. And the CRO a dean of the curriculum on how to recognize a long con and how to avoid similar scams in the future.

I understand that the majority of Hashfast buyers/investors were simply compulsive gamblers (or compulsive investors), and for those continuing this thread is really a waste of time.

But I think I recognize many people who simply were naive and Hashfast simply took advantage of their naivete and giddiness after the (then recent) gains in the price of Bitcoin. Those are the people who skipped the boring accounting classes where they anesthetize students with stuff like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_of_credit .

I know that the school of hard kicks is unfair: only a few people paid the tuition but many more students can audition the coursework for free from the sidelines. Personally, as an non-paying student, I just want to learn some details on how to run a prepackaged bankruptcy scam in Silicon Valley. I'm also hoping to learn if cypherdoc was a paid roper who knew what he was doing or just another giddy naif.

When a risky high-tech Silicon Valley runs out of money and declares bankrupcy, it's a common and perfectly normal event.  Likewise for older and bigger firms.

No "prepackaged bankruptcy scam" would produce a chip like the GN1, which at well over 700GH/s is still by far the fastest BTC ASIC on the planet.

But yes, if you honestly believe buying a pre-order for a magical internet money generator (regardless of manufacturer) is a low or zero risk proposition, welcome to Investderr University.


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August 30, 2014, 01:29:28 AM
 #10543

It's hilarious looking back and see just how wrong iCEBREAKER was:

The more hardware HashFast sells, the more
You should wait and see what HashFast's next chip will do before offering erroneous advice.

They likely won't have another chip design for years.

Fine, you go ahead and assume facts not in evidence.   Roll Eyes

Care to make a wager?  

I'll put 1BTC on HashFast's second chip taping out in less than 365 days from now (9/8/14 or sooner).

Chicken?  Yah, that's what I thought!   Cool

ALWAYS  BET  ON  iCE...

I think we can rest assured there's no second chip taping out in a week.

Buy & Hold
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August 30, 2014, 01:31:25 AM
 #10544

No "prepackaged bankruptcy scam" would produce a chip like the GN1, which at well over 700GH/s is still by far the fastest BTC ASIC on the planet.
Dude, then pray tell us what was the purpose of Hashfast,DE in addition to Hashfast,CA? Something like "special purpose investment vehicle" at Enron?

I'm not in the mood for arguing, so I'll let Professor Frank Zappa do the talking:

The mystery man came over
And he said "I'm outta sight!"
He said for a nominal service charge
I could reach nirvana tonight
If I was ready, willing and able
To pay him his regular fee
He would drop all the rest of
His pressing affairs and devote
His attention to me

But I said "Look here brother
who you jiving with that cosmik debris?
Now who you jiving with that cosmik debris?
Look here brother, don't waste your time on me"

The mystery man got nervous
And he fidget around a bit
He reached in the pocket of his mystery robe
And he whipped out a shaving kit
Now I thought it was a razor
And a can of foaming goo
But he told me right then when the top popped open
There was nothin' his box won't do
With the oil of Aphrodite, and the dust of the Grand Wazoo
He said "You might not believe this, little fella
But it'll cure your asthma too"

And I said "Look here brother
Who you jiving with that cosmik debris?
Now what kind of a guru are you, anyway?
Look here brother, don't waste your time on me"
*(Don't waste your time)*

"I've got troubles of my own", I said
"And you can't help me out
So, take your meditations and your preparations
And ram it up your snout!"
"But I got the crystal ball", he said
And held it to the light
So I snatched it, all away from him
And I showed him how to do it right

I wrapped a newspaper 'round my head
So I looked like I was deep
I said some mumbo-jumbo, then
I told him he was going to sleep
I robbed his rings and pocketwatch
And everything else I found
I had that sucker hypnotized
He couldn't even make a sound
I proceeded to tell him his future, then
As long as he was hanging around
I said "The price of meat has just gone up
And your old lady has just gone down!"

And I said "Look here brother-who you
Jiving with that cosmik debris?
Now is that a real poncho or is that a Sears poncho?
Don't you know, you could make more money as a butcher?
So, don't waste your time on me"
Don't waste it, don't waste your time on me
*(Shante)*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtx4ZJ1cwI0

Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
Long-term mining prognosis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91101.0
iCEBREAKER
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August 30, 2014, 05:33:12 AM
 #10545

I think we can rest assured there's no second chip taping out in a week.

Wow, nice 20/20 hindsight bro.  The reason nobody accepted the wager a year ago was that the success of the GN1 made production of the GN2 a non-trivial probability.

How au courant of you to perform a little victory jig on HF's grave at this late date.  Aren't you just tickled pink that a BTC company failed, leaving its customers in limbo?

As for the Zappa copypasta guy, if you are unfamiliar with and surprised by the quotidian industry-wide practice of separating IP from production LLCs, please put all 100% your BTC in a cold wallet and never buy or invest in anything.  Because you are a clueless, dewy-eyed, greenhorn N00B...    Wink


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
dhenson
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August 30, 2014, 05:52:04 AM
 #10546

I think we can rest assured there's no second chip taping out in a week.

Wow, nice 20/20 hindsight bro.  The reason nobody accepted the wager a year ago was that the success of the GN1 made production of the GN2 a non-trivial probability.

How au courant of you to perform a little victory jig on HF's grave at this late date.  Aren't you just tickled pink that a BTC company failed, leaving its customers in limbo?

As for the Zappa copypasta guy, if you are unfamiliar with and surprised by the quotidian industry-wide practice of separating IP from production LLCs, please put all 100% your BTC in a cold wallet and never buy or invest in anything.  Because you are a clueless, dewy-eyed, greenhorn N00B...    Wink

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August 30, 2014, 06:56:16 AM
 #10547

When a risky high-tech Silicon Valley runs out of money and declares bankrupcy, it's a common and perfectly normal event.  Likewise for older and bigger firms.

No "prepackaged bankruptcy scam" would produce a chip like the GN1, which at well over 700GH/s is still by far the fastest BTC ASIC on the planet.

But lying about delivery dates sound like a "prepackaged scam"...How on earth do you promise November delivery when it was clear from the start that they couldn't meet it?

iCEBREAKER is a troll! He and cypherdoc helped HashFast scam 50 Million $ from its customers !
H/w Hosting Directory & Reputation - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622998.0
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August 30, 2014, 12:18:41 PM
 #10548

I want to buy an used upgrade kit for my BabyJet. From where I'm able to get one?

http://hashfast.com/shop/baby-jet-upgrade-kit/

EDIT: My account is gone in the hashfast system --> "There is no user registered with that email address."

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August 30, 2014, 12:40:43 PM
 #10549


HF did sell their Yoli Evo boards to this company above? And did not ship it to their customers?

http://hashfast.com/shop/yolievo/
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August 30, 2014, 02:03:00 PM
 #10550

I talked to Bitcrane and asked this exact question.  They paid for the Yoli EVO design files and the chips and built boards in China.  So other than buying chips that should have been going towards customer orders, they appear to be legit.

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August 30, 2014, 04:22:53 PM
 #10551

As for the Zappa copypasta guy, if you are unfamiliar with and surprised by the quotidian industry-wide practice of separating IP from production LLCs, please put all 100% your BTC in a cold wallet and never buy or invest in anything.  Because you are a clueless, dewy-eyed, greenhorn N00B...    Wink
The mention of IP (as Intellectual Property) is worth replying. Because there is none.

SHA256 brute forcer is such a trivial circuit, that anyone can design and make it. For students this would be a semester project, for experienced engineer with access to the appropriate toolchain this would be a couple of weekends. All the value is in the execution: people who have the "know how" and "from manufacturing to fulfillment" channel. Once those people left Hashfast and went back to Uniquify the value of the "IP" went to near zero, less than the value of the software licenses of the tools used to produce it.

Because there's no real, separable, intellectual property it would be better to account for it as a
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodwill_(accounting) . There are no patents, trademarks, brand names, etc. that would have a value/worth to a different organization.

Bitcoin gives the users the power to disintermediate the conventional banks and classical accounting. This just means that the work done (expensively) by the bank or accountancy can be done (cheaper) by the end user. But not doing that work at all converts the investors into gamblers.

Conventional finance uses letters of credit to buy/manufacture custom equipment. It is similar to escrow, with the difference that LoC can be used as a collateral for obtaining a loan by the manufacturer. Thus far the Bitcoin "group buy" deals look more like a purchase of a lottery ticket for an office pool that a proper business deal. I'm kinda hoping that this fiasco will give some readers the motivation to familiarize themselves with the commerce and accounting beyond the most basic "consumer" level, or in this case "investomer" level.

Edit: To maybe summarize my post: the choice isn't between "hodl" and "gamble". You always have an intermediate choice of "invest like a pro", which means doing things like "due dilligence", "accounting", "risk analysis" without handholding and safety net from "Fidelity Investments" or other retail brokerage.

Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
Long-term mining prognosis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91101.0
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August 30, 2014, 08:58:07 PM
 #10552

But lying about delivery dates sound like a "prepackaged scam"...How on earth do you promise November delivery when it was clear from the start that they couldn't meet it?
October delivery, please. With the raw wafers being received middle November.

http://hashfast.org/Main_Page#The_Supposedly_Legitimate_Reasons_of_the_First_Delay
http://hashfast.org/List_of_Lies#October_Shipping

I wrote all of that, but I had to read it again yesterday because I basically forgot the majority of it. Time does it. Doublespeak trollers does it.

No "prepackaged bankruptcy scam" would produce a chip like the GN1, which at well over 700GH/s is still by far the fastest BTC ASIC on the planet.

Step 1: Take some sha256 IP, put in millions (not of your money, off course) and make it a reality. Order way more wafers than you actually need, since that wasting money is cool and you need to dominate the market.

Step 2: Package the single die into a 4 die substrate. And don't you dare covering the bare dies with a metal plate or something to help dissipation. Make it the most useless chip ever, by basically putting a kW into a few cm^2. But yes, you can have your favourite trolling arguing that the GN1 is the best chip ever, since that best = fastest. Guess what idiot, I can make you a chip that is 10 times faster than the fastest chip on the market! You only need to dissipiate 10kW from a little more cm^2 this time! AMAZING!

Step 3: If over-storing wafers, over-spending with TSMC and all of that isn't enough, stop shipping orders, raise your payckecks and sleep over the every-minute-more-useless chips, since that you don't give a shit and your best to make them useless wasn't enough.

Step 4: Did I say sleep? Well, sleep. Wait, since that you don't give a shit. You are being paid after all.

Step 5: Oh shit, someone filed for an involuntary (?) bankruptcy, better try to do something to waste even more value. Those useless chips are still worth something after all!

Step 6: Negotiate an impossible deal with an impossible "company", take months to do it, because the chips are better if useless.

Step 7: Take a whole-month-vacation while your lawyers are arguing with the judge that you are not being paid enough money to keep your family afloat (to which the judge answered: "it doesn't compute!"). Hell, if it doesn't compute.


If this isn't a "prepackaged bankruptcy scam", if you really think that, well, I'm sorry, but I can't help you.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
iCEBREAKER
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August 30, 2014, 10:49:03 PM
 #10553

Step 1: Take some sha256 IP, put in millions (not of your money, off course) and make it a reality. Order way more wafers than you actually need, since that wasting money is cool and you need to dominate the market.

Step 2: Package the single die into a 4 die substrate. And don't you dare covering the bare dies with a metal plate or something to help dissipation. Make it the most useless chip ever, by basically putting a kW into a few cm^2. But yes, you can have your favourite trolling arguing that the GN1 is the best chip ever, since that best = fastest. Guess what idiot, I can make you a chip that is 10 times faster than the fastest chip on the market! You only need to dissipiate 10kW from a little more cm^2 this time! AMAZING!

Step 3: If over-storing wafers, over-spending with TSMC and all of that isn't enough, stop shipping orders, raise your payckecks and sleep over the every-minute-more-useless chips, since that you don't give a shit and your best to make them useless wasn't enough.

Step 4: Did I say sleep? Well, sleep. Wait, since that you don't give a shit. You are being paid after all.

Step 5: Oh shit, someone filed for an involuntary (?) bankruptcy, better try to do something to waste even more value. Those useless chips are still worth something after all!

Step 6: Negotiate an impossible deal with an impossible "company", take months to do it, because the chips are better if useless.

Step 7: Take a whole-month-vacation while your lawyers are arguing with the judge that you are not being paid enough money to keep your family afloat (to which the judge answered: "it doesn't compute!"). Hell, if it doesn't compute.


If this isn't a "prepackaged bankruptcy scam", if you really think that, well, I'm sorry, but I can't help you.

Sure, it's so easy to make a 700+ GH/s BTC ASIC that Superstar Chip Designers at Cointerra could barely match 400GH/s.   Roll Eyes

It makes you appear foolish when, in your butthurt rantings, you dismiss the technology in the GN chip/protocol.  There are at least 2 provisional patents...

Sandgate, Chad, and Uniquify are the best in the business.  Cedivad is a nobody who will never design his own ASIC, but loves to put down others' accomplishments.

If this was a "scam" there would be some evidence of that, and the DA would consider filing charges based on the evidence.  But that never happened.

This simply a run of the mill high-tech bankruptcy.  They happen all the time in Silicon Valley.  Many firms must fail so others may succeed.  Creative destruction is part of Capitalism 101.  Go back to Investdurr University if you don't understand that.

It's trolling to keep calling a nearly successful company a scam, when there is zero evidence of criminal intent or actions.

This is, in reality, a bankruptcy, and it would be more productive to accept that and deal with it as a bankruptcy instead of comforting yourself by reciting the litany of Hashfast sins.  Making poor business decisions which doom the company despite its great technology is a boring movie we've all seen before, not a nefarious conspiracy.

Let's repeat: Insolvency and bankruptcy are normal business occurrences.  It is not illegal, nor immoral, nor uncommon, for a firm to experience such conditions. 

You haters are not going to succeed in criminalizing normal business functions.  If risk taking were punished as a form of scam, Silicon Valley would have never existed.  If there were evidence of a "prepackaged bankruptcy scam" the creditors would have shown it to the judge long ago.



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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
cedivad
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August 30, 2014, 11:00:03 PM
 #10554

It's trolling to keep calling a nearly successful company a scam, when there is zero evidence of criminal intent or actions.
Two answers for this line only, dear resident troller:

1) If you know HF, a company that didn't create a single dollar worth of value but rather destroyed it all the way along, to be "successful", you must have a really different definition of "successful company", where successful includes scamming, and scamming includes hiding value from creditors. I can agree with you on that.
2) About the "zero evidence", let me quote your friends over at ATM:

I genuinely see ActM as a failed business and not a scam.

Sure, it's so easy to make a 700+ GH/s BTC ASIC that Superstar Chip Designers at Cointerra could barely match 400GH/s.   Roll Eyes

1) How do you know that CT's chip is only running at 400GH/s? I was under the impression that they said on their blog since the beginning that the asic met the specifics?
2) How much did CT spent for it's tapeout, in %, vs HF's?
3) How long from when CT had chips in hand to when they delivered? 3 months? "BTC ASIC that Superstar Chip Designers" did it right. "Sandgate, Chad, and Uniquify"... Depends on your definition of right.

It has been a while, so I played your little game and I answered. Let's see what BS you throw out of your keyboard this time.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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August 30, 2014, 11:27:07 PM
 #10555

It's trolling to keep calling a nearly successful company a scam, when there is zero evidence of criminal intent or actions.
Two answers for this line only, dear resident troller:

1) If you know HF, a company that didn't create a single dollar worth of value but rather destroyed it all the way along, to be a "successful", you must have a really different definition of "successful company", where successful includes scamming, and scamming includes hiding value from creditors. I can agree with you on that.
2) About the "zero evidence", let me quote your friends over at ATM:

I genuinely see ActM as a failed business and not a scam.

1) You accidentally forgot to include the modifier "nearly" in front of "successful."  HF's technology rocks, but the BTC price/difficulty spike and a couple of missteps doomed the company by draining their coffers.  The lawyers did the rest, by scaring off potential investment and frittering the remains away in court.  No scam, just plain old bad luck and unrecoverable errors.

2) ActM never made a chip, much less the fastest one in the world.  As Chairman Emeritus of the ActM board, I warned them not to try and compete with HF and CT.  They didn't listen.  We are going to find out if ActM was a scam via the results of the MO Security regulator's investigation.  HF never sold securities, and are not under investigation.  zumzero is a nutter, and I have no idea why you'd bring his lunacy into a potentially rational discussion.

 Cool  Speaking of "zero evidence"   Cool
Quote
"Guilty Until Proven Innocent"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwjMbs39Nm8

I thought this was America people!
Uhh, yeah, guilty until proven innocent huh?
That's how we workin huh? Okay
...
Uh-huh, okay, I see how we playin
...
Tell me, what you, want from me
Y'all, cats, can't touch me


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
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Syke
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August 31, 2014, 12:04:11 AM
 #10556

Sure, it's so easy to make a 700+ GH/s BTC ASIC that Superstar Chip Designers at Cointerra could barely match 400GH/s.   Roll Eyes

Yes, it is easy. SHA256 is embarrassingly parallel. Making a big fat chip is just copy/paste. It's just a bad idea due to heat density and other issues. That's why companies that did big chips (HF, CT, BFL) had the biggest problems actually building working miners.

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August 31, 2014, 12:24:52 AM
 #10557

Sure, it's so easy to make a 700+ GH/s BTC ASIC that Superstar Chip Designers at Cointerra could barely match 400GH/s.   Roll Eyes

Yes, it is easy. SHA256 is embarrassingly parallel. Making a big fat chip is just copy/paste. It's just a bad idea due to heat density and other issues. That's why companies that did big chips (HF, CT, BFL) had the biggest problems actually building working miners.

We all know BTC mining is trivially parallelizable in theory; nobody is impressed with you dragging out that old chestnut.

What you seem unaware of is the 'more is different' principle, although you came close to finding it with your passing reference to "other issues."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Warren_Anderson

Your most embarrassing omission is leaving KnC off the list of "companies that did big chips."

Of course you had to pointedly ignore KnC, because as the most successful BTC ASIC company ever, their example proves your latter claim demonstrably false.


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
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jimmothy
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August 31, 2014, 12:29:27 AM
 #10558

Quote from: iCEBREAKER link=topic=262052.msg8603504#msg8603504
Of course you had to pointedly ignore KnC, because as the most successful BTC ASIC company ever, their example proves your latter claim demonstrably false.

You forgot to add "/s" so people don't think you're being serious.
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August 31, 2014, 12:43:41 AM
 #10559

Quote from: iCEBREAKER link=topic=262052.msg8603504#msg8603504
Of course you had to pointedly ignore KnC, because as the most successful BTC ASIC company ever, their example proves your latter claim demonstrably false.

You forgot to add "/s" so people don't think you're being serious.

So which BTC ASIC company is more successful than KnC?

And if KnC is just another big hot chip failure like HF/CT/BFL, why did Syke accidentally forget to include them in his list?


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
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August 31, 2014, 12:50:35 AM
 #10560

I look at my situation with Black Arrow and it looks bleak.

Then I come to this thread and see that there are those that don't even get a fancy space heater with bells & whistles.

The X3 can play flappy bird  Tongue.
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