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Author Topic: HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s  (Read 878377 times)
jamesg
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July 22, 2014, 07:41:44 PM
 #10201

It really doesn't matter if they are investing $10M or $100M.  The most the creditors every see is $6M, in 2 years.  In exchange we give them $9M of inventory and IP rights.

Do you have a buyer at $9mm for the inventory and IP?

How did you come to believe that the inventory and IP is worth $9mm?

Isn't $6mm better than nothing?
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July 22, 2014, 07:54:43 PM
 #10202

It really doesn't matter if they are investing $10M or $100M.  The most the creditors every see is $6M, in 2 years.  In exchange we give them $9M of inventory and IP rights.

Do you have a buyer at $9mm for the inventory and IP?

How did you come to believe that the inventory and IP is worth $9mm?

Isn't $6mm better than nothing?

Agreed, Im not sure how $9mm was decided for the inventory but if its true then I think we are best off to just liquidate all inventory and distribute the money.
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July 22, 2014, 07:56:45 PM
 #10203

It really doesn't matter if they are investing $10M or $100M.  The most the creditors every see is $6M, in 2 years.  In exchange we give them $9M of inventory and IP rights.
The problem is that you don't know if the assets are really worth $9M, do you? I have to prefer $6M "guaranteed" (if they spent $10M into the mine they would probably be "guaranteed") rather than 3-9M maybe.

If it was $6M today, I would agree.  But it's a promise of $6M in a couple years, and possibly nothing if something goes wrong in that time frame.

LOL it's yet another preorder that will probably never arrive!

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July 22, 2014, 08:08:31 PM
 #10204

There are sell-side brokers that would research the most Likely buyers and facilitate exploratory acquisition meeting etc, providing the sellers are in agreement to go down this road with another adviser, if they have already tried to find a buyer themselves and have failed this sounds like it would be a good option to create a few competitive bids for the inventory of chips & IP etc. A good example of such a Broker is www.bcmscorp.com it would have to be a fast track campaign though!

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July 22, 2014, 08:13:19 PM
 #10205

And basically if the sale is approved the $6M would be holded into bitcoin and distributed at whatever value it is two years from now?

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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July 22, 2014, 08:18:23 PM
 #10206

And basically if the sale is approved the $6M would be holded into bitcoin and distributed at whatever value it is two years from now?

It's all "Jam tomorrow" (British saying) and nothing today, far too risky if you ask me, it is just like an Earn-out with far to many things that could go wrong and we would not have any control over what happens, at least now we have some say in what the out come will be! I vote liquidate or find another buyer that is willing to pay Now not in 2 years time! Etc.

LTCgear.com Review http://ltcgear.co.ukhttp://ltcgear.com/?apage=120 - 160mh/s for $850 use coupon code "anniversary1yr" - Active Multi Algorithm cloud mining in Scrypt, X11 and Scrypt-N - ROI in 5 Weeks
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July 22, 2014, 08:20:14 PM
 #10207

Yes, let's suppose that LB puts the $6M in an account for our benefit, two years goes by and the value is $20M (as per their simulations (haha)). Who guarantees us that they don't get hacked and they don't loose the private key? Meh...

And evaluating the chips without the details of the new board design that should halve the costs is more voodoo than what I'm used to. (And I got used to a lot of hashfast-related voodoo!)

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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July 22, 2014, 08:20:56 PM
 #10208

It really doesn't matter if they are investing $10M or $100M.  The most the creditors every see is $6M, in 2 years.  In exchange we give them $9M of inventory and IP rights.
Do you have a buyer at $9mm for the inventory and IP?
How did you come to believe that the inventory and IP is worth $9mm?
Isn't $6mm better than nothing?

There is sworn testimony that is the value.  I do not see any better indication than that currently.   Perhaps you could list it all and everyone could decide for themselves The value. 


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July 22, 2014, 08:27:20 PM
 #10209

It really doesn't matter if they are investing $10M or $100M.  The most the creditors every see is $6M, in 2 years.  In exchange we give them $9M of inventory and IP rights.

Do you have a buyer at $9mm for the inventory and IP?

How did you come to believe that the inventory and IP is worth $9mm?

Isn't $6mm better than nothing?

Are you an investor in Liquidbits?

Do you often ask a series of stupid questions that are factually inaccurate, and have already been addressed in the thread?
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July 22, 2014, 08:43:49 PM
 #10210

Do you often ask a series of stupid questions that are factually inaccurate, and have already been addressed in the thread?

I'm simply trying to understand where this $9mm figure came from and if there is a buyer offering it today.

From my calculations, I can buy in stock equipment from Bitmain at $1/Gh + power supply. This equipment can be air cooled and doesn't require any fancy water cooled solution to work.

I can buy AM chips at $0.35/Gh which would be equivalent to purchasing HF chips except for the fact that the boards for HF chips are more complicated than for Bitmain or AM chips. I'll be overly fair and say the HF chips are worth the same.

27,000 chips * 500Gh per chip * .35 == $4,725,000 USD

This price is only relevant if you actually have a buyer who has 20mW of data center space and enough capital to build boards, coolers, PDUs, PSUs, cabling, etc.

Seems to me that there aren't very many people who have all of these pieces ready to go. It takes months of work and planning to build even a 350Th/s mine.

So it seems you are valuing the IP at $4,275,000. Again, who is going to purchase the IP at this price? Do you have a buyer?

If that is a dumb question, I'll happily leave the thread.
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July 22, 2014, 08:51:01 PM
 #10211

Do you often ask a series of stupid questions that are factually inaccurate, and have already been addressed in the thread?

I'm simply trying to understand where this $9mm figure came from and if there is a buyer offering it today.

From my calculations, I can buy in stock equipment from Bitmain at $1/Gh + power supply. This equipment can be air cooled and doesn't require any fancy water cooled solution to work.

I can buy AM chips at $0.35/Gh which would be equivalent to purchasing HF chips except for the fact that the boards for HF chips are more complicated than for Bitmain or AM chips. I'll be overly fair and say the HF chips are worth the same.

27,000 chips * 500Gh per chip * .35 == $4,725,000 USD

This price is only relevant if you actually have a buyer who has 20mW of data center space and enough capital to build boards, coolers, PDUs, PSUs, cabling, etc.

Seems to me that there aren't very many people who have all of these pieces ready to go. It takes months of work and planning to build even a 350Th/s mine.

So it seems you are valuing the IP at $4,275,000. Again, who is going to purchase the IP at this price? Do you have a buyer?

If that is a dumb question, I'll happily leave the thread.

You are an investor in Liquidbits, so you know very well that you are only addressing a portion of the assets that will be sold.

I am constrained by confidentiality agreements so I am unable to make it clear to people how stunningly disingenuous you are being.
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July 22, 2014, 08:57:16 PM
 #10212

Do you often ask a series of stupid questions that are factually inaccurate, and have already been addressed in the thread?

I'm simply trying to understand where this $9mm figure came from and if there is a buyer offering it today.

From my calculations, I can buy in stock equipment from Bitmain at $1/Gh + power supply. This equipment can be air cooled and doesn't require any fancy water cooled solution to work.

I can buy AM chips at $0.35/Gh which would be equivalent to purchasing HF chips except for the fact that the boards for HF chips are more complicated than for Bitmain or AM chips. I'll be overly fair and say the HF chips are worth the same.

27,000 chips * 500Gh per chip * .35 == $4,725,000 USD

This price is only relevant if you actually have a buyer who has 20mW of data center space and enough capital to build boards, coolers, PDUs, PSUs, cabling, etc.

Seems to me that there aren't very many people who have all of these pieces ready to go. It takes months of work and planning to build even a 350Th/s mine.

So it seems you are valuing the IP at $4,275,000. Again, who is going to purchase the IP at this price? Do you have a buyer?

If that is a dumb question, I'll happily leave the thread.

Who says it is advanteous  to sell sell to one buyer instead of many?    The IP also has value and there are recoveries.    So by your own math,  liquidation gives creditors 70 to 80 cents on the dollar up front vs. 0 to 100 in two years. 
Liquidbits,  if they actually were capitalized properly could simply offer 6 million to buy out all the other creditors Now and then they can do what they want.  That is not that much if they actually had the money.



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July 22, 2014, 09:17:31 PM
 #10213

You are an investor in Liquidbits, so you know very well that you are only addressing a portion of the assets that will be sold.

I am constrained by confidentiality agreements so I am unable to make it clear to people how stunningly disingenuous you are being.

Spot on! BFL's spirit will never die!

H/w Hosting Directory & Reputation - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622998.0
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July 22, 2014, 10:03:26 PM
Last edit: July 22, 2014, 10:17:24 PM by Minor Miner
 #10214

Do you often ask a series of stupid questions that are factually inaccurate, and have already been addressed in the thread?

I'm simply trying to understand where this $9mm figure came from and if there is a buyer offering it today.

From my calculations, I can buy in stock equipment from Bitmain at $1/Gh + power supply. This equipment can be air cooled and doesn't require any fancy water cooled solution to work.

I can buy AM chips at $0.35/Gh which would be equivalent to purchasing HF chips except for the fact that the boards for HF chips are more complicated than for Bitmain or AM chips. I'll be overly fair and say the HF chips are worth the same.

27,000 chips * 500Gh per chip * .35 == $4,725,000 USD

This price is only relevant if you actually have a buyer who has 20mW of data center space and enough capital to build boards, coolers, PDUs, PSUs, cabling, etc.

Seems to me that there aren't very many people who have all of these pieces ready to go. It takes months of work and planning to build even a 350Th/s mine.

So it seems you are valuing the IP at $4,275,000. Again, who is going to purchase the IP at this price? Do you have a buyer?

If that is a dumb question, I'll happily leave the thread.

Using your own math above liquidation is the best option.
You put 500gh per chip but it is 750 so your calculation should 6.4 million just from chips.   Your numbers.  
Plus 2 million for the IP.   Then there are the recoveries from the shareholders still to be factored in.   Without recoveries with your numbers liquidation gives us a far better deal.  Around 80 cents on the dollar with upside being the recoveries.  


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nwfella
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July 22, 2014, 10:06:14 PM
 #10215

Hell at this point I'll take whatever I can get back on my wasted babyjet+ satoshi's.

BTC: 3MsaLB8ghUB15YBP5ruyb5jiLbMou1CuNm
LTC: LhgGYFUBdLf7c5qygjw3Jte3nCFs2gp1j8
HardwareReviewer
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July 22, 2014, 10:20:19 PM
 #10216

Do you often ask a series of stupid questions that are factually inaccurate, and have already been addressed in the thread?

I'm simply trying to understand where this $9mm figure came from and if there is a buyer offering it today.

From my calculations, I can buy in stock equipment from Bitmain at $1/Gh + power supply. This equipment can be air cooled and doesn't require any fancy water cooled solution to work.

I can buy AM chips at $0.35/Gh which would be equivalent to purchasing HF chips except for the fact that the boards for HF chips are more complicated than for Bitmain or AM chips. I'll be overly fair and say the HF chips are worth the same.

27,000 chips * 500Gh per chip * .35 == $4,725,000 USD

This price is only relevant if you actually have a buyer who has 20mW of data center space and enough capital to build boards, coolers, PDUs, PSUs, cabling, etc.

Seems to me that there aren't very many people who have all of these pieces ready to go. It takes months of work and planning to build even a 350Th/s mine.

So it seems you are valuing the IP at $4,275,000. Again, who is going to purchase the IP at this price? Do you have a buyer?

If that is a dumb question, I'll happily leave the thread.

You are an investor in Liquidbits, so you know very well that you are only addressing a portion of the assets that will be sold.

I am constrained by confidentiality agreements so I am unable to make it clear to people how stunningly disingenuous you are being.

HashFast part II: the ugliness continues...

Prepare to enter a world of stress
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July 22, 2014, 10:40:11 PM
 #10217

Hell at this point I'll take whatever I can get back on my wasted babyjet+ satoshi's.

+1 let's just get back whatever we can now and put and end to this nightmare of a Hashfast scam saga!
I just want to get something back and put the whole thing behind me!! I must say it had been a very expensive life lesson, I will never jump so quickly into buying product again before carrying out proper Due Dilligence and seeing proof of others receiving theirs!

LTCgear.com Review http://ltcgear.co.ukhttp://ltcgear.com/?apage=120 - 160mh/s for $850 use coupon code "anniversary1yr" - Active Multi Algorithm cloud mining in Scrypt, X11 and Scrypt-N - ROI in 5 Weeks
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July 23, 2014, 03:37:51 AM
 #10218

@LB. Do you have or have you ever had a relationship with Butterfly Labs?

 
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July 23, 2014, 05:11:45 AM
Last edit: July 23, 2014, 06:08:32 AM by stan258
 #10219

Secondly have you had communication with HF other then regarding the status of your orders before this case? If you come out with a 14 or 16 NM chip I will personally litigate you pro Bono till 2095 billed to my estate and written off as a tax deduction. I don't like being screwed twice.

Have you been in contact with executives or another Bfl employee in the past 90 days?

Lastly if you are in an agreement with Bfl so the Monarch can ship with this product or use their assembly and data facilities this is not a big gamble as you want everybody to believe.


   Edit: A former BFL employee has stated they have seen Hashfast and Liquidbits employees at the facility he worked at numerous times. I did not think much of Liquidbits other then another cloud mining firm at the time. 

LB who is paying your legal fees?
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July 23, 2014, 06:54:35 AM
 #10220

27,000 chips * 500Gh per chip * .35 == $4,725,000 USD

27,000 chips * 700Gh per chip * .35 == $6,615,000 USD, that sounds much better. You also get several metric tons of board components (long lead time components) for free since that HF (wisely, for once) made a stock of it. If I had to guess it, you also already have the PCBs in hand, so you paid them $5 each and not $150 each in expedite fees. So basically your per board cost is around or less than $200. Without considering the new super secret board design that halves the costs another time.

@LB. Do you have or have you ever had a relationship with Butterfly Labs?

Yes, Yes. And again YES. A hell of a relationship I would say.

Btw, I keep being incredibly confused. But the number of puppets in this thread is at a record high lately (and Greg isn't replying anymore!); that brings me to the only possible conclusion.

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:
Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)
Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers
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