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Author Topic: bitHopper: Python Pool Hopper Proxy  (Read 332742 times)
cirz8
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August 20, 2011, 08:51:15 AM
 #3701

^ same problem here, and "user shares" keep showing 0... i try with: 0.2.1-21/24/25/26, same errors with those

went back to 0.2.1-13
Two questions:
1) How do you check which version one have in that format(0.2.1-x)?
2) I'm no git guru, is it possible to download to a specific commit and have it stop there, since you seem to have lots of versions? (my git knowledge go as far as clone and pull)

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paraipan
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August 20, 2011, 09:45:56 AM
 #3702

^ same problem here, and "user shares" keep showing 0... i try with: 0.2.1-21/24/25/26, same errors with those

went back to 0.2.1-13
Two questions:
1) How do you check which version one have in that format(0.2.1-x)?
2) I'm no git guru, is it possible to download to a specific commit and have it stop there, since you seem to have lots of versions? (my git knowledge go as far as clone and pull)

pls have patience ppl, the bleeding edge got a little off because c00w was rearranging lots of code, continue reporting the errors and try using  
Code:
--debug > error.log
param. to really help debugging faster. Thanks

@cirz8  you could try "git help" or "git pull help" to view how to pull specific versions

@r2edu it's tough I know but we're testing and using it at the same time, when using the newest ver. try saving a log if it gives you troubles Wink

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MrWizard
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August 20, 2011, 10:00:51 AM
 #3703

Suddenly getting constant:

Error in pool api for deepbit

Tried but could not fix it with my limited skills.  Anybody got any ideas?

"I walked into the room dripping in Bitcoins.  Yea dripping in Bitcoins."
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paraipan
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August 20, 2011, 10:25:10 AM
 #3704

Suddenly getting constant:

Error in pool api for deepbit

Tried but could not fix it with my limited skills.  Anybody got any ideas?

look here, should give you a clue Tongue

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tysat
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August 20, 2011, 10:32:33 AM
 #3705

Suddenly getting constant:

Error in pool api for deepbit

Tried but could not fix it with my limited skills.  Anybody got any ideas?

look here, should give you a clue Tongue

I'd been trying to figure it out for myself and was about to post on the forums.... but good call on the quick fix.  I didn't think to check the page source to make sure nothing had changed.
MrWizard
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August 20, 2011, 10:46:42 AM
 #3706

Suddenly getting constant:

Error in pool api for deepbit

Tried but could not fix it with my limited skills.  Anybody got any ideas?

look here, should give you a clue Tongue

Σας ευχαριστώ κ. Paraipanakos.

Was looking for a fix in GitHub c00w / bitHopper.  Did not know about paraipanakos / bitHopper.

"I walked into the room dripping in Bitcoins.  Yea dripping in Bitcoins."
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paraipan
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August 20, 2011, 10:51:30 AM
 #3707

Suddenly getting constant:

Error in pool api for deepbit

Tried but could not fix it with my limited skills.  Anybody got any ideas?

look here, should give you a clue Tongue

Σας ευχαριστώ κ. Paraipanakos.

Was looking for a fix in GitHub c00w / bitHopper.  Did not know about paraipanakos / bitHopper.

hehe Καλώς Ορίσατε MrWizard, I'm Spanish and the nick thing is long story, I would surely like to learn Greek.  paraipanakos / bitHopper is only my fork until it gets merged in the c00w's master

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MrWizard
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August 20, 2011, 10:57:09 AM
 #3708

Suddenly getting constant:

Error in pool api for deepbit

Tried but could not fix it with my limited skills.  Anybody got any ideas?

look here, should give you a clue Tongue

Σας ευχαριστώ κ. Paraipanakos.

Was looking for a fix in GitHub c00w / bitHopper.  Did not know about paraipanakos / bitHopper.

hehe Καλώς Ορίσατε MrWizard, I'm Spanish and the nick thing is long story, I would surely like to learn Greek.  paraipanakos / bitHopper is only my fork until it gets merged in the c00w's master
LOL.  Well I guess I'm turning into my father.  I assumed that if you have a name that sounds remotely Greek, that you are Greek.  Cheesy

"I walked into the room dripping in Bitcoins.  Yea dripping in Bitcoins."
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cirz8
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August 20, 2011, 11:37:39 AM
 #3709

Been messing around with git a bit now and I'm just blown away, its way more powerful than I could ever had imagined.
describe was for version-format I was looking for, it's tag"-"CommitsSinceTag I figure. archive command is just amazing.

I think will start using git on everything I code, mostly bash-scripts though. Will save tons of time from going over multiple version-copies etc.
I've been doing things like they were done back in the stone-age it seems Embarrassed

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dadittox
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August 20, 2011, 01:24:11 PM
 #3710

c00w,

Please check netstat/tcpdump for persistent connections. Connections are not being reused at all. It's not the problem of if there are lots/few miners. OldConnectionSystem helps, but actually reusing connections would be great. Twisted-11.0.0.
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August 20, 2011, 06:20:57 PM
 #3711

deepbit op thinks we are evil and is working hard to get rid of us

I really dont get this mindset of theft, everyone gets paid exactly for the shares they submit.

For one, most people hopped onto bitcoin because it was profitable and most would leave when it isnt. WE just do that same at the pool level.
Most of them hopper haters would have no problem hopping onto a rival currency when it becomes more profitable.
But somehow they seem to want to think that pool hopping is different and like to call us names.. the pols even said us hoppers were akin to murderers

You have seen the jars of jellybeans where they want you to guess how many are in there. Most people just make a random guess.. some wiser people buy a jar and some jellybeans and try to find out how many it holds. It isnt cheating, he didnt break into the real jar and count the jellybeans, he is just trying to maximise his chances of winning.

Oh i get why they dont like it.. they are lazy and they dont like seeing others make more money than them..

yeah yeah yeah their shares are worth less on the short blocks  and a tad bit more on the long blocks and they want it the other way arround.

But the thing is.,. IF WE STAYED and did not hop.. their shares on the short blocks would be the same.. but their shares on the long blocks would be even less..

eh sorry for the rant, i know their is a thread for this.. I dont see why deepbit cares, we are such a small percent of their total hash, that we really dont effect their users much at all. ANything perceieved is most likely due to luck and not hoppers.

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deepceleron
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August 20, 2011, 07:28:17 PM
 #3712

deepbit op thinks we are evil and is working hard to get rid of us

I really dont get this mindset of theft, everyone gets paid exactly for the shares they submit.

For one, most people hopped onto bitcoin because it was profitable and most would leave when it isnt. WE just do that same at the pool level.
Most of them hopper haters would have no problem hopping onto a rival currency when it becomes more profitable.
But somehow they seem to want to think that pool hopping is different and like to call us names.. the pols even said us hoppers were akin to murderers

You have seen the jars of jellybeans where they want you to guess how many are in there. Most people just make a random guess.. some wiser people buy a jar and some jellybeans and try to find out how many it holds. It isnt cheating, he didnt break into the real jar and count the jellybeans, he is just trying to maximise his chances of winning.

Oh i get why they dont like it.. they are lazy and they dont like seeing others make more money than them..

yeah yeah yeah their shares are worth less on the short blocks  and a tad bit more on the long blocks and they want it the other way arround.

But the thing is.,. IF WE STAYED and did not hop.. their shares on the short blocks would be the same.. but their shares on the long blocks would be even less..

eh sorry for the rant, i know their is a thread for this.. I dont see why deepbit cares, we are such a small percent of their total hash, that we really dont effect their users much at all. ANything perceieved is most likely due to luck and not hoppers.

You seem to be the best at these self-denial diatribes, perhaps arguing with yourself to justify your unethical behaviour in pool hopping.

Think of it this way: Imagine there is a bakery that leaves day-old loaves of bread out for the homeless at closing time, and then you start coming by and take all the bread every day. Others in need get none. Then after complaints, the bakery decides to put out the bread at random times so one person doesn't take them all, so then you have someone watch the bakery all the time and still come get the bread when they put it out. Then the bakery stops putting out the bread and makes the homeless come in and ask for their fair share, it seems then you would rant about how the bakery is unethical, you would never shop there, etc. The bakery doesn't want you anyway, you contribute nothing, your complaints are unheard.

Or: The convenience store has a take-a-penny, leave-a-penny tray. You come in three times a day and take all the pennies from the tray. You go around to all the convenience stores and do this. Eventually they put the pennies behind the counter so only the clerk can grab some pennies for you to make nice change. To counter this, you plan your purchases to always need pennies, so you can get the clerk to add pennies to your purchase. Eventually they quit, and nobody has the convenience anymore.

This is what you are doing to bitcoin and pools. The goal of pools is not directly to "solve blocks", and saying that pool hoppers "help solve blocks" is a straw-man argument. A pool is there for bitcoin miners to pool their resources to reduce variability and get more regular payments. Miners do not pool mine to make more or less money, they pool mine to make the same expected amount, but not have to wait months for a payout. Having a bunch of opportunists jump on and saying we "help solve blocks" is merely a convenient and fallacious excuse for stealing the early shares in pool rounds that are compensated more because of the chance of a short round happening, in an otherwise fair payment system for full-time miners. You think your work should be paid more than everybody else's? You think everyone else's earnings should be decreased because the short rounds (that should compensate full-time miners for the long ones they suffer) are exploited? It is fair to hit the bandwidth of a dozen pool's web pages every minute and open a bunch of TCP sockets, causing pool ops to need hardware upgrades and spend time with mitigation measures? You think pools want more variability - shorter short rounds and longer long rounds? That is an antisocial narcissistic notion.

Pool hoppers do decrease the earnings of everyone else in pools, and on bitcoin as a whole. Hoppers aren't adding more hashrate to bitcoin, they are just strategically moving around their share submissions to be compensated more for the same amount of work, more than others. This leaves less earnings for others on a pool, and less earnings for all bitcoin users. Legitimate pool miners have less time to submit shares in short rounds, and then they have to split those earnings with more people.

It is game on, pools that still prefer the proportional payment method should do whatever in their power makes their pool mining experience a positive one, including not having egocentrists degrade a fair rewards system and network stability.

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August 20, 2011, 07:54:16 PM
 #3713


This is what you are doing to bitcoin and pools. The goal of pools is not directly to "solve blocks", and saying that pool hoppers "help solve blocks" is a straw-man argument. A pool is there for bitcoin miners to pool their resources to reduce variability and get more regular payments. Miners do not pool mine to make more or less money, they pool mine to make the same expected amount, but not have to wait months for a payout. Having a bunch of opportunists jump on and saying we "help solve blocks" is merely a convenient and fallacious excuse for stealing the early shares in pool rounds that are compensated more because of the chance of a short round happening, in an otherwise fair payment system for full-time miners. You think your work should be paid more than everybody else's? You think everyone else's earnings should be decreased because the short rounds (that should compensate full-time miners for the long ones they suffer) are exploited? It is fair to hit the bandwidth of a dozen pools web pages every minute and open a bunch of TCP sockets, causing pool ops to need hardware upgrades and spend time with mitigation measures? You think pools want more variability - shorter short rounds and longer long rounds? That is an antisocial narcissistic notion.

Pool hoppers do decrease the earnings of everyone else in pools, and on bitcoin as a whole. Hoppers aren't adding more hashrate to bitcoin, they are just strategically moving around their share submissions to be compensated more for the same amount of work, more than others. This leaves less earnings for others on a pool, and less earnings for all bitcoin users. Legitimate pool miners have less time to submit shares in short rounds, and then they have to split those earnings with more people.

It is game on, pools that still prefer the proportional payment method should do whatever in their power makes their pool mining experience a positive one, including not having egocentrists degrade a fair rewards system and network stability.

If pools care so much about their miners, then why they don't implement a fair reward system like PPLNS or PPS ? PROP is not a fair system. If you submit shares late, you are being paid for them less than for shares submitted early (in terms of expected value), despite that you do the same amount of work - so how this is fair?

And hoppers degarding network stability or earnings of bitcoin as a whole? How? Even if someone cracked SH256 and was able to generate hashes with 100x speed than other it would not destabilize the system. Bitcoin doesn't care about the pools or hoppers. The only thing which matters is that a block should happen every 10 minutes. Who gets the block, doesn't really matter.
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August 20, 2011, 09:56:29 PM
 #3714


blah, blah, snipped

 and network stability.

network stability is already fucked by deepbit having 50% of total hashpower and "legitimate" miners don't give a jackshit about that

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August 20, 2011, 10:20:18 PM
 #3715

Quote

You seem to be the best at these self-denial diatribes, perhaps arguing with yourself to justify your unethical behaviour in pool hopping.


and you seem good at twisting shit just to fit your preconceptions.

the rules say i get paid my shares/total shares x 50

I leave when that equation no longer makes sense to mine there. Just like you get paid The number of coins you can mine in a month x the price you can sell them on mtgox - electricity costs, when that equation goes negative, most people quit.

get it? it has nothing to do with anyone but me. I'm not stealing any bread or any damn pennies and everyone else is still paid for every share they send in divided by total shares times 50.

I am looking at my shares versus pool shares times 50.. i dont want to be there when pool shares are over 2 million, i want to be elsewhere, that is just smart, it isnt theft.  If they feel they get less than they should, move to a pool with a "fair" system. Sorry if following the rules seems unethical to you.

when it is in the rules.. dont hop.. you can call me unethical, otherwise I am being smart.

You're just pissed cause i starve myself before going to an all you can eat buffet,  you are paying more per ounce than I am and you are pissed, I dont get it, want to pay less per ounce like me, skip fucking lunch.

here the equation is  how much you can eat/cost of buffet. It doesnt make sense to me to eat there right after I just ate, i'm full the cost is high, how much i can eat is low...decision.. dont eat there.

can I not hop the bars based on their happy hours? no rule says i have to stay for full price drinks, but according to you I am being unethical. YOU DO KNOW YOU ARE SUBSIDIZING MY BEHAVIOR when i do that right?

seriously that is one twisted brain you got. If you dont like what your getting paid, go somewhere else. Or do what we do.

and FYI.. many pool ops like us, so for the pool ops that have told us to stay.. how can you call us unethical when we have been invited?

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August 21, 2011, 12:41:17 AM
 #3716

.

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August 21, 2011, 01:06:32 AM
 #3717

So I've had some weird issues with BH and trying the LP/p2pLP.  When I first start BH up, it works for for a while (1-5 hours).  But eventually it seems to stop using LP or the p2pLP, and therefor isn't hopping to deepbit at all.  Also, it seems like it never ever hops to BTCGuild as whenever it is restarted btcg just keeps rising and never resets to 0.

Anyone else had similar and been able to fix it?
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August 21, 2011, 01:40:11 AM
 #3718

......
It is game on, pools that still prefer the proportional payment method should do whatever in their power makes their pool mining experience a positive one, including not having egocentrists degrade a fair rewards system and network stability.


You know what I like best about your post, deepceleron? It's you telling us you have no misconceptions about what and how evil hopping is and yet you, a hopper, are making a judgement about someone else's morals? Either you're amoral and shouldn't be making these sort of calls, or you've stopped hopping and are bitter.

@tysat: same problem with btcg, although I did get into one round once. Deepbit's ok. Try not using p2pLP and see if it helps. Also make sure you're using a recent version.

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deepceleron
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August 21, 2011, 04:01:27 AM
 #3719


You know what I like best about your post, deepceleron? It's you telling us you have no misconceptions about what and how evil hopping is and yet you, a hopper, are making a judgement about someone else's morals? Either you're amoral and shouldn't be making these sort of calls, or you've stopped hopping and are bitter.

I am a pool hopper? Find one post where I've said that. Studying lockpicking doesn't make me a thief; studying American history doesn't make me want to own slaves. Bithopper software reveals itself as rather clever and canonical, having other uses, such as the potential to find "who solves the block" from LPs, make an IRC block solve annouce bot, or to spread shares across several pools for backup/failover/variance reduction, etc. I'd post a screen shot with all my pools set to info and backup, but my python install got messed up earlier this week and I haven't bothered fixing it.

However, pool hopping on those pools that have decided it is OK, to the detriment of their other users, would just be defending yourself against others who thought it was cool to bring a gun to a knife fight.

By the way, why would someone be "bitter" if they decided to stop pool hopping? hrm.

If pools care so much about their miners, then why they don't implement a fair reward system like PPLNS or PPS ? PROP is not a fair system.
I think the reasons are 1. That would take some effort, 2. Math fail (such as the below-mentioned pool op not believing that pool hoppers reduce earnings, and me being unable to communicate with him in the language of integral calculus and binomial statistics, since he's working at a hosting company at the age I was studying engineering), 3. User resistance (typical PPLNS conversion discussion: "I don't like the idea of my shares expiring..."), and 4. Greed - hopping doesn't reduce the earnings of pool ops, just the users, and more block solves = more fees they get to keep.

...
And hoppers degarding network stability or earnings of bitcoin as a whole? How? Even if someone cracked SH256 and was able to generate hashes with 100x speed than other it would not destabilize the system. Bitcoin doesn't care about the pools or hoppers. The only thing which matters is that a block should happen every 10 minutes. Who gets the block, doesn't really matter.

I am referring to the instability and extra work that hoppers create for pool operators and their users. I happen to know several network problems at bitcoins.lc were from pool hoppers, specifically from hundreds of connections a second being opened by the multipool op and other unknown actors, essentially DDOSing the pool. Jine had to implement firewall caching because of the load the constant stat-refreshing was causing, and had to switch over to to a VM environment with load distribution between six different servers, because proxied and aggregated connections were not re-using TCP sessions properly and would run pushpoold out of TCP/IP ports and crash the pool for all the users. That I might be bitter about, along with having to switch my higher aggression mining tasks to a PPLNS pool instead of my first choice, to avoid earning measurably less.

I do somewhat agree that the game is flawed if you have to kick out the card counters. However, you aren't taking from the house, you are taking from other miners in a situation where the ideal would be that we pool our resources for the good of all. My response is to the self-justifying posts every few pages of this thread that "pools should be glad, we help them solve blocks", or "xxx pool is unscrupulous a-holes because they are taking measures against pool hopping".


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August 21, 2011, 05:23:35 AM
 #3720

I apologise then deepceleron. I find your posts thought provoking and helpful for hoppers. I assume you didn't mean them to be?

If you did, then helping people to perform 'immoral' acts - well, that would be immoral, wouldn't it? And your post was all about that. Or maybe you just wanted to show us how clever you are.

Either way - keep up the helpful posts, but please keep your value judgment posts to the "Is hopping ethical?" thread.


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