Incoming Avalon News 8/9/2013

[Bicknellski]

If you decide you can ship the order later, you must seek the customer’s consent to the delay. You may use whatever means you wish to do this -- such as the telephone, fax, mail, or email -- as long as you notify the customer of the delay reasonably quickly. The customer must have sufficient advance notification to make a meaningful decision to consent to the delay or cancel the order.

"Chips Delivery Update, September Edition
Due to events outside of our control, the delivery of chips have been delayed so far. While the situation are improving and chips are shipping, we have ultimately decided to revert our policy on no refunds and offer the option for customers to request a full refund(in bitcoin) if so desired.

Our group requested a Refund on August 4th via Avalon Support Ticket site.

You must cancel an order and provide a prompt refund when:

the customer exercises any option to cancel before you ship the merchandise;

What Does the Rule Cover?

It applies to most goods a customer orders from the seller by mail, telephone, fax, or on the Internet.

It does not matter how the merchandise is advertised, how the customer pays, or who initiates the contact.


What You Must Do If You Learn You Cannot Ship on Time

When you learn that you cannot ship on time, you must decide whether you will ever be able to ship the order. If you decide that you cannot, you must promptly cancel the order and make a full refund.

If you decide you can ship the order later, you must seek the customer’s consent to the delay. You may use whatever means you wish to do this -- such as the telephone, fax, mail, or email -- as long as you notify the customer of the delay reasonably quickly. The customer must have sufficient advance notification to make a meaningful decision to consent to the delay or cancel the order.

Some businesses adopt internal deadlines that are earlier than those set by the Rule to ensure that their delay notices give all customers a meaningful opportunity to consent to the delay. If businesses fail to ship or give delay notifications by their internal deadlines, they automatically cancel the orders and make refunds.

In any event, no notification to the customer can take longer than the time you originally promised or, if no time was promised, 30 days. If you cannot ship the order or provide the notice within this time, you must cancel the order and make a prompt refund.

What a First Delay Option Notice Must Say

In seeking your customer’s consent to delay, the first delay notice you provide to the customer (the "delay option" notice) must include:

a definite revised shipment date or, if unknown, a statement that you are unable to provide a revised shipment date;
a statement that, if the customer chooses not to wait, the customer can cancel the order and obtain a full and prompt refund; and
some means for the customer to choose to cancel at your expense (e.g., by providing a postage prepaid reply card or toll-free telephone number).
the following information when you cannot provide a revised shipping date:
the reason for the delay, and
a statement that, if the customer agrees to the indefinite delay, the customer may cancel the order any time until you ship the merchandise.

When You Must Cancel an Order

You must cancel an order and provide a prompt refund when:

the customer exercises any option to cancel before you ship the merchandise;
the customer does not respond to your first notice of a definite revised shipment date of 30 days or less and you have not shipped the merchandise or received the customer’s consent to a further delay by the definite revised shipment date;
the customer does not respond to your notice of a definite revised shipment date of more than 30 days (or your notice that you are unable to provide a definite revised shipment date) and you have not shipped the merchandise within 30 days of the original shipment date;
the customer consents to a definite delay and you have not shipped or obtained the customer’s consent to any additional delay by the shipment time the customer consented to;
you have not shipped or provided the required delay or renewed option notices on time; or
you determine that you will never be able to ship the merchandise.

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[stereotype]

I suggest we refer this whole matter to the Bitcoin Foundation. Using foul language does not help. We need a third party to arbitrate for us.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=177827.msg3054081#msg3054081

Ive seen Coindesk refer to individual posts before, so im sure this matter will be further published. Also, LetsTalkBitcoin would im sure, welcome a spokesperson to talk about whats being played out on this thread.

[dnaleor]

Will there be compensation for delivery of chips wich are too late?
Maybe 0.025 BTC/chip?

[RoadStress]

Most people who have chip orders are much more understanding to the situation, whom are either taking refunds, or working out some sort of compensation model.  

What situation to understand? You promised 10 weeks delivery and you failed. There is no situation. You sent zefir's batch 2 of chips (batch 1 and 2 were ordered the same day!) a few weeks after first batch. There is simply no excuse for that.

[yxt]

what is with trade ins?

[roy7]

Most people who have chip orders are much more understanding to the situation, whom are either taking refunds, or working out some sort of compensation model.  

What situation to understand? You promised 10 weeks delivery and you failed. There is no situation. You sent zefir's batch 2 of chips (batch 1 and 2 were ordered the same day!) a few weeks after first batch. There is simply no excuse for that.

Yeah it's so weird. I was in batch 3 which hasn't arrived yet. All of zefir's batches (8? 10?) were ordered within about a one week window. So we figured they'd all be delivered in about a one week window. Not that the two orders arrive and then no other orders ever arrive. It's just bizarre.

[Bogart]

Yifu i really really appreciate you communicating...

Same here.  I hope it continues.

[koob]

So where is my compensation for the issue with my 2 Avalon Batch 2 machines??

As a Batch 2 machine buyer i placed faith in you and the company... i got screwed to the tune of 130 BTC, due to your mistakes...

Where is my compensation? Seeing as you have "no problems compensation for delay", please compensate me for the delay.

Exactly same like B3 buyers - 2-3 months delay made our ROI pretty impossible.

[WinTame2012]

So where is my compensation for the issue with my 2 Avalon Batch 2 machines??

As a Batch 2 machine buyer i placed faith in you and the company... i got screwed to the tune of 130 BTC, due to your mistakes...

Where is my compensation? Seeing as you have "no problems compensation for delay", please compensate me for the delay.

Exactly same like B3 buyers - 2-3 months delay made our ROI pretty impossible.

Don't forget that there was another 2-4 weeks delay in (edit) Batch 3 units (/edit) shipping even after the 'refund-or-receive' offer, forced customers to decide in only 2 days. And that 4 weeks made a huge difference in breaking even the hardware as difficulty has ramped up a 90%.

[alpet]

Exactly same like B3 buyers - 2-3 months delay made our ROI pretty impossible.

+ 1 Graham's number

Yifu please don't kill your business by greed, simple compensate unreasonably high price for B3 Avalons.

[jspielberg]

Not sure if this makes any difference, but since folks are fascinated with fiat... the B2 avalon's were $1.5K BTC equivalent at the time of sale.  B3 were $5K and $7.5K equivalent... and there is a running thread on how B2 machines broke even (in BTC for the those confused) a couple of weeks back.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=283735.0

When B3 were offered a refund, it would have been smart to jump on it.  The math (and evidence) looks very different for the B2 folks.  Anyone complaining about B2 is holding it wrong.

[superduh]

Not sure if this makes any difference, but since folks are fascinated with fiat... the B2 avalon's were $1.5K BTC equivalent at the time of sale.  B3 were $5K and $7.5K equivalent... and there is a running thread on how B2 machines broke even (in BTC for the those confused) a couple of weeks back.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=283735.0

When B3 were offered a refund, it would have been smart to jump on it.  The math (and evidence) looks very different for the B2 folks.  Anyone complaining about B2 is holding it wrong.

there were complications for B2 and B3 refunding for example - those in group buys and those that have purchased pre orders from others at a higher price. they would get screwed by a regular refund. best thing to do was to keep his end of agreement. then this thread wouldn't even exist.

[Bitcoinorama]

I honestly cannot see what Yifu can do to appease everyone after all this with respect to refunds after building a business based around using peoples money like an interest free loan, when evidence suggests fraudulent activity, but i'd suggest a detailed and accurate statement of accounts with supporting evidence is the only fair way to deal with this, and would go a long way to keeping the 'trolls', as he calls his customers, at bay.

It's concerning that his comments are neither detailed, supported and are largely non-commital, as such few believe his turn of events.

Yifu, straight-up mate, you know right from wrong, no one doubts that much, but you are going to have to provide a detailed timeline with evidence based on communications and literature from TSMC, and customs dockets, all of which you blatantly have in your possession to prevent this from getting messy.

The fact that vocal discontent involving criminal proceedings and litigation is the only way to provoke a reaction and what appears to be half-truths is very worrying as it appears you don't want to commit in writing what could be used against you.

If you are being honest as you claim, you really should have nothing to hide, if you try to lie, you will slip up, it's inevitable, and it's already looking that way.

Sort it out mate, and pronto. as so far it does not wash, and this is more than the odd thousand dollars someone could just remain angry about. The beef surrounds people's livelihoods, you stand to ruin people.

[erschiessen]

Refunds coming from the address that Yifu insinuated no control over.

No word at all to the reasons behind the 11+ week DELAY on early orders.

Then he claims that upset customers are greedy and affecting his chi?

Wow.

[kjj]

Anyone complaining about B2 is holding it wrong.

Or, you know, not holding it at all.  Like me, for example.  I placed my B2 orders on February 3rd and hadn't heard a peep from them until a few days ago.

[eve]

those mods who did the group buy are doing their twist and turns when giving  a refund, when they need us for their group buy they beg us and makes all the false promises to enticed us to sign up for their group buy. most of them had got their refunds from yifu. Majority of us simply just need a full refund.

some may have been whore into the DIY designs offer by them but that is not our problem, that is your problem with them, not those who did not sign up for any of your DIY Kits or setups and this are the ones who should get their refunds now.

Full Refund Now.

[Unacceptable]

those mods who did the group buy are doing their twist and turns when giving  a refund, when they need us for their group buy they beg us and makes all the false promises to enticed us to sign up for their group buy. most of them had got their refunds from yifu. Majority of us simply just need a full refund.

some may have been whore into the DIY designs offer by them but that is not our problem, that is your problem with them, not those who did not sign up for any of your DIY Kits or setups and this are the ones who should get their refunds now.

Full Refund Now.

                       

The GB organizers had no idea it would turnout like this!!It was make chips,ship chips...no assembly,no headache.You are dense aren't you

[rudrigorc2]

Hello BitSyncom, why you are advertising batch5 avalon mini, the tradein thread is here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140974.540

Care to give us a word on this matter?

[Tursk]

...

                       

The GB organizers had no idea it would turnout like this!!It was make chips,ship chips...no assembly,no headache.You are dense aren't you

Please ignore that troll.

[greaterninja]

Avalon / Yifu still have not added my trade-ins to my store account.  I have completed business with Avalon twice now, however the trade-ins issue is an outstanding issue.  
2/3 issues resolved on a neutral issue
1/3 issues still outstanding;  customer service has been quite poor and now its going on 5 months later.

Trade-ins Signed by Mr. Chen Still not in store account. #1530
Created on Sat, Aug 31 at 2:14 PM
BEING PROCESSED
TRADE-IN NOT IN STORE YET #1508
Created on Mon, Aug 26 at 12:20 PM
BEING PROCESSED
TRADE-INS SIGNED BY MR. CHEN; NOT POSTED IN AVALON STORE ACCOUNT #1495
Created on Wed, Aug 21 at 4:09 AM
BEING PROCESSED
Order is still not in Store Account #1487
Created on Sun, Aug 18 at 10:42 PM
BEING PROCESSED
Trade-ins Please Sir ADD to Store Account #1476
Created on Tue, Aug 13 at 10:15 AM
BEING PROCESSED
Sir Please Add Trade-In to Store #1454
Created on Tue, Aug 6 at 12:21 PM
BEING PROCESSED
TRADE-IN NOT IN STORE YET #1453
Created on Tue, Aug 6 at 12:20 PM
BEING PROCESSED
TRADE-IN NOT IN STORE YET #1452
Created on Tue, Aug 6 at 12:20 PM
BEING PROCESSED
TRADE-IN NOT IN STORE YET #1451
Created on Tue, Aug 6 at 12:19 PM
BEING PROCESSED
TRADE-IN NOT IN STORE YET #1450
Created on Tue, Aug 6 at 12:18 PM
BEING PROCESSED
Sir Please Add Trade-In to Store #1424
Created on Tue, Jul 30 at 2:50 PM
BEING PROCESSED
TRADE-IN NOT IN STORE YET #1409
Created on Wed, Jul 24 at 11:53 AM
BEING PROCESSED
TRADE-IN NOT IN STORE YET #1408
Created on Wed, Jul 24 at 11:51 AM
BEING PROCESSED
Hello Sir, Please add my trade-in to my store account. #1351
Created on Mon, Jul 15 at 11:01 AM
BEING PROCESSED
Sir Please help with Avalon Trade-In #1235
Created on Tue, Jul 2 at 11:29 AM