Incoming Avalon News 8/9/2013

[dmcdad]

but there's a lot of speculation and accusation going on in this thread and others that is generally baseless as hell.

I don't consider the photos of millions of chips from months ago baseless. I mean if that accusation (that Yifu sold the chips to a higher bidder and now is having problems getting our chips produced), then he is more than welcome to set the record straight. But if it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck...

And I don't see how he is "tired" of defending himself. He hasn't defended himself. He's mentioned something about a gangster shake down a few chips being held up for a couple of weeks in customs. But he hasn't defended any of the accusations or explained where the hell the chips are.

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[knightlife999]

Man, im tired to defend myself to people that doesnt even bother if their claims are true.

I wonder if this is exactly how Bitsyncom feels.  Don't mean to kick the hornet's nest, but there's a lot of speculation and accusation going on in this thread and others that is generally baseless as hell.  The only two gripes we REALLY have are that the chips weren't delivered on time and Yifu has been very begrudging with information on his side.  All this talk about reselling chips and making insane profits and mining with CHIPS that have to be SODERED ONTO A BOARD before they work is just that; talk.  Can we please maintain a level head in all of this?  Yifu has already stated he's looking into refunds.  That's an acknowledgement that shit went wrong and an attempt to rectify the situation.  Can all the crazy people take a break for a little while so the grownups can sort shit out please?

There is one thing we know for certain. The present chip batches arriving to people who ordered in mid April are stamped with dates that show they were made the first week of August. That has heavy implications. Either the chip batches were only ordered just recently, or the original batches were sold/used for something else.

[pajak666]

Man, im tired to defend myself to people that doesnt even bother if their claims are true.

I wonder if this is exactly how Bitsyncom feels.  Don't mean to kick the hornet's nest, but there's a lot of speculation and accusation going on in this thread and others that is generally baseless as hell.  The only two gripes we REALLY have are that the chips weren't delivered on time and Yifu has been very begrudging with information on his side.  All this talk about reselling chips and making insane profits and mining with CHIPS that have to be SODERED ONTO A BOARD before they work is just that; talk.  Can we please maintain a level head in all of this?  Yifu has already stated he's looking into refunds.  That's an acknowledgement that shit went wrong and an attempt to rectify the situation.  Can all the crazy people take a break for a little while so the grownups can sort shit out please?

read thread carefully, search for tracking numbers, and then skip to page 80 to see chips from china.

[bigbeninlondon]

but there's a lot of speculation and accusation going on in this thread and others that is generally baseless as hell.

I don't consider the photos of millions of chips from months ago baseless. I mean if that accusation (that Yufo sold the chips to a higher bidder and now is having problems getting our chips produced), then he is more than welcome to set the record straight. But if it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck...

You got photos of a bunch of chips.  Those could have been private orders not related to the group buys.  Yifu himself said most of the orders originated in China.  If you don't know where those chips went, or where they are now, how can you say that any accusation isn't baseless?  You have no evidence of anything except pictures of chips that didn't have a name on them and no indication of who they belonged to that never showed up on radar.  That's pretty baseless in my book.

[Ytterbium]

I am tired of this toxic community malformed by greed.

Dude has a point...

Should have thought about it before COLLECTING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS from people on this board.

[ecliptic]

Man, im tired to defend myself to people that doesnt even bother if their claims are true.

I wonder if this is exactly how Bitsyncom feels.  Don't mean to kick the hornet's nest, but there's a lot of speculation and accusation going on in this thread and others that is generally baseless as hell.  The only two gripes we REALLY have are that the chips weren't delivered on time and Yifu has been very begrudging with information on his side.  All this talk about reselling chips and making insane profits and mining with CHIPS that have to be SODERED ONTO A BOARD before they work is just that; talk.  Can we please maintain a level head in all of this?  Yifu has already stated he's looking into refunds.  That's an acknowledgement that shit went wrong and an attempt to rectify the situation.  Can all the crazy people take a break for a little while so the grownups can sort shit out please?

Nobody gives a shit about "acknowledging" solmething went wrong.  That's self-evident, even a child can see that

What is desired, and what is purposely being withheld, covered up, and obfusciated is WHAT went wrong.

Ordering chips by a 10k reel from a fab and shipping them is orders of magnitude easier than selling their Batches #1 to #3

There is good evidence that a great deal of these chips EXISTED and WERE SHIPPED TOGETHER back in June to China.

Lots of talk on Chinese forums about backroom deals

Part of Avalon broke off at this time as well.  Did they take all the chips?   Why so secretive?

Are these new batches just the "OH FUCK" second order they had to make?

He said himself "NO BS" terms.  Bullshit happened, and it wasn't explained.

Don't even start with "conspiracy" talk either.  These are plain facts, most of these yifu / avalon / etc admitted themselves. 

Until we get some real answers, nobody is going to trust Avalon.  I'm not sure why they're even bothering with a 2nd gen while they leave these unanswered.

The 'answers' we have gotten about customs simply do not line up with the facts, and don't account for what we have seen.

[bigbeninlondon]

Man, im tired to defend myself to people that doesnt even bother if their claims are true.

I wonder if this is exactly how Bitsyncom feels.  Don't mean to kick the hornet's nest, but there's a lot of speculation and accusation going on in this thread and others that is generally baseless as hell.  The only two gripes we REALLY have are that the chips weren't delivered on time and Yifu has been very begrudging with information on his side.  All this talk about reselling chips and making insane profits and mining with CHIPS that have to be SODERED ONTO A BOARD before they work is just that; talk.  Can we please maintain a level head in all of this?  Yifu has already stated he's looking into refunds.  That's an acknowledgement that shit went wrong and an attempt to rectify the situation.  Can all the crazy people take a break for a little while so the grownups can sort shit out please?

read thread carefully, search for tracking numbers, and then skip to page 80 to see chips from china.

Those chips on page 80 prove nothing.  Those chips were bought by a reseller for a client that never showed up.  How does that prove anything at all?  Everything on this thread is pure speculation.

[ecliptic]

Man, im tired to defend myself to people that doesnt even bother if their claims are true.

I wonder if this is exactly how Bitsyncom feels.  Don't mean to kick the hornet's nest, but there's a lot of speculation and accusation going on in this thread and others that is generally baseless as hell.  The only two gripes we REALLY have are that the chips weren't delivered on time and Yifu has been very begrudging with information on his side.  All this talk about reselling chips and making insane profits and mining with CHIPS that have to be SODERED ONTO A BOARD before they work is just that; talk.  Can we please maintain a level head in all of this?  Yifu has already stated he's looking into refunds.  That's an acknowledgement that shit went wrong and an attempt to rectify the situation.  Can all the crazy people take a break for a little while so the grownups can sort shit out please?

read thread carefully, search for tracking numbers, and then skip to page 80 to see chips from china.

Those chips on page 80 prove nothing.  Those chips were bought by a reseller for a client that never showed up.  How does that prove anything at all?  Everything on this thread is pure speculation.

Why the fuck are chips ordered in april, with an 8-10 week leadtime coming down with 2-3x that leadtime?

All the evidence points to the fact that the first batch was indeed ordered, but never showed up.  These very few chips that have begun to ship?  They were ordered from the fab 8-10 weeks ago from today.

They are fucking chips from TSMC.  They've already been made, the masks are good, it's simply a process of ordering more.  It's the simplest fucking thing in the world, there is no long and complicated supply chain for a PCB assembly.  There is the manufacturer of the chips, and the group buy / private party buying them.

[bigbeninlondon]

Man, im tired to defend myself to people that doesnt even bother if their claims are true.

I wonder if this is exactly how Bitsyncom feels.  Don't mean to kick the hornet's nest, but there's a lot of speculation and accusation going on in this thread and others that is generally baseless as hell.  The only two gripes we REALLY have are that the chips weren't delivered on time and Yifu has been very begrudging with information on his side.  All this talk about reselling chips and making insane profits and mining with CHIPS that have to be SODERED ONTO A BOARD before they work is just that; talk.  Can we please maintain a level head in all of this?  Yifu has already stated he's looking into refunds.  That's an acknowledgement that shit went wrong and an attempt to rectify the situation.  Can all the crazy people take a break for a little while so the grownups can sort shit out please?

Nobody gives a shit about "acknowledging" solmething went wrong.  That's self-evident, even a child can see that

What is desired, and what is purposely being withheld, covered up, and obfusciated is WHAT went wrong.

Ordering chips by a 10k reel from a fab and shipping them is orders of magnitude easier than selling their Batches #1 to #3

There is good evidence that a great deal of these chips EXISTED and WERE SHIPPED TOGETHER back in June to China.

Lots of talk on Chinese forums about backroom deals

Part of Avalon broke off at this time as well.  Did they take all the chips?   Why so secretive?

Are these new batches just the "OH FUCK" second order they had to make?

He said himself "NO BS" terms.  Bullshit happened, and it wasn't explained.

Don't even start with "conspiracy" talk either.  These are plain facts, most of these yifu / avalon / etc admitted themselves. 

Until we get some real answers, nobody is going to trust Avalon.  I'm not sure why they're even bothering with a 2nd gen while they leave these unanswered.

The 'answers' we have gotten about customs simply do not line up with the facts, and don't account for what we have seen.

Sure, don't trust them.  Sure, don't bother with 2nd gen.  But can we stop assuming these baseless accusations of shady backroom dealings and mining with chips (that would have to be mounted to boards before mining, which would be easy to see on the chips themselves) and all of this baseless nonsense?  There are real issues here that I'm not discounting.  I just hate all the extra bullshit that slips in and then is repeated over and over until everyone assumes it's the truth.  The truth is: A) Chips are late as fuck B) Yifu is very withholding of crucial information and C) He's offering refunds.  Everything else is speculation and should be treated as such.

[ecliptic]

Man, im tired to defend myself to people that doesnt even bother if their claims are true.

I wonder if this is exactly how Bitsyncom feels.  Don't mean to kick the hornet's nest, but there's a lot of speculation and accusation going on in this thread and others that is generally baseless as hell.  The only two gripes we REALLY have are that the chips weren't delivered on time and Yifu has been very begrudging with information on his side.  All this talk about reselling chips and making insane profits and mining with CHIPS that have to be SODERED ONTO A BOARD before they work is just that; talk.  Can we please maintain a level head in all of this?  Yifu has already stated he's looking into refunds.  That's an acknowledgement that shit went wrong and an attempt to rectify the situation.  Can all the crazy people take a break for a little while so the grownups can sort shit out please?

Nobody gives a shit about "acknowledging" solmething went wrong.  That's self-evident, even a child can see that

What is desired, and what is purposely being withheld, covered up, and obfusciated is WHAT went wrong.

Ordering chips by a 10k reel from a fab and shipping them is orders of magnitude easier than selling their Batches #1 to #3

There is good evidence that a great deal of these chips EXISTED and WERE SHIPPED TOGETHER back in June to China.

Lots of talk on Chinese forums about backroom deals

Part of Avalon broke off at this time as well.  Did they take all the chips?   Why so secretive?

Are these new batches just the "OH FUCK" second order they had to make?

He said himself "NO BS" terms.  Bullshit happened, and it wasn't explained.

Don't even start with "conspiracy" talk either.  These are plain facts, most of these yifu / avalon / etc admitted themselves.  

Until we get some real answers, nobody is going to trust Avalon.  I'm not sure why they're even bothering with a 2nd gen while they leave these unanswered.

The 'answers' we have gotten about customs simply do not line up with the facts, and don't account for what we have seen.

Sure, don't trust them.  Sure, don't bother with 2nd gen.  But can we stop assuming these baseless accusations of shady backroom dealings and mining with chips (that would have to be mounted to boards before mining, which would be easy to see on the chips themselves) and all of this baseless nonsense?  There are real issues here that I'm not discounting.  I just hate all the extra bullshit that slips in and then is repeated over and over until everyone assumes it's the truth.  The truth is: A) Chips are late as fuck B) Yifu is very withholding of crucial information and C) He's offering refunds.  Everything else is speculation and should be treated as such.

Yes, How fucking crazy to think that a possible 10 - 50,000,000$ profit in the hands of a dozen people or less classifies as a "conspiracy".

They're not mining with your chips and shipping them to you

They took your chips and ordered "your" chips 10+ weeks LATER, AGAIN, after SOMEONE took the first batch.

1. You order chips from TSMC
2. TSMC ships them 8-10 weeks later
3. You ship them to the customer

So what the fuck went wrong?

And stop with this fucking stupid ass strawman of "they took the chips, mounted them, then UNMOUNTED them and shipped them!"

No you asshole

They ordered the chips with your money, SOMEONE acquired them, used and still is using them for mining, and then they had to order another run of chips from TSMC after this happened.  That's why the chips are so late.

[dmcdad]

But can we stop assuming these baseless accusations of shady backroom dealings and mining with chips (that would have to be mounted to boards before mining, which would be easy to see on the chips themselves) and all of this baseless nonsense?

Again, it isn't baseless. We don't have all the information but there are lots of facts you apparently refuse to acknowledge. Until Yifu provides more information, or sets things right (refund, etc.), the accusations will continue.

[pajak666]

you can buy overpriced chips "in stock" at chinese market, chips pre-funded by bitcointalk community.
we have no chips, meanwhile chinese resellers have chips in stock with production date corelating with our orders.
troll harder

[Ytterbium]

Looks like yifu is pushing for full refunds for chip orders:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=177827.msg3035535#msg3035535

Group buys should be okay, but someone is going to need to eat the cost of the PCB's and components.

I want my chips... Not a refund...
I hope it's still possible to receive chips and yofu will NOT refund just all orders...

Take your refund money and order a KnC or something.  Or bitfury.

[Dunkelheit667]

Yifu, to exercise professionalism fill out this form:

I will deliver all April chip orders until...
I will deliver all May chip orders until...
I will deliver all June chip orders until...
I will deliver all July chip orders until...

[bigbeninlondon]

They ordered the chips with your money, SOMEONE acquired them, used and still is using them for mining, and then they had to order another run of chips from TSMC after this happened.  That's why the chips are so late.

Who acquired them?  When?  How do you know these chips are the same as the chips we ordered?  This is exactly what I am talking about.  You have no information to back any of these accusations up except "I saw a picture!!!".

[bigbeninlondon]

you can buy overpriced chips "in stock" at chinese market, chips pre-funded by bitcointalk community.
we have no chips, meanwhile chinese resellers have chips in stock with production date corelating with our orders.
troll harder

Yea, because it's impossible that those chips were ordered by a Chinese reseller whose interested in bitcoin and got there before the group buys did.  Right?  There's no way that could possibly happen, right?

[ecliptic]

They ordered the chips with your money, SOMEONE acquired them, used and still is using them for mining, and then they had to order another run of chips from TSMC after this happened.  That's why the chips are so late.

Who acquired them?  When?  How do you know these chips are the same as the chips we ordered?  This is exactly what I am talking about.  You have no information to back any of these accusations up except "I saw a picture!!!".

Tracking Info

Manufacturer Silkscreen and timestamping on the chips themselves (Why the fuck are they ordered months after you had the money?)

Occam's Razor

Need I go on?

Unless there is concrete proof these chips were ordered within a few weeks of when the money was received, Avalon is lying.

[ProfMac]

Can all the crazy people take a break for a little while so the grownups can sort shit out please?

ROTFL.

Thanks.

[bigbeninlondon]

They ordered the chips with your money, SOMEONE acquired them, used and still is using them for mining, and then they had to order another run of chips from TSMC after this happened.  That's why the chips are so late.

Who acquired them?  When?  How do you know these chips are the same as the chips we ordered?  This is exactly what I am talking about.  You have no information to back any of these accusations up except "I saw a picture!!!".

Tracking Info

Manufacturer Silkscreen and timestamping on the chips themselves (Why the fuck are they ordered months after you had the money?)

Occam's Razor

Need I go on?

Unless there is concrete proof these chips were ordered within a few weeks of when the money was received, Avalon is lying.

Which is possible.  I'm not saying anything concrete.  I'm just saying can we quit with the crazy ass theoreticals for just a little while?

[spiccioli]

They ordered the chips with your money, SOMEONE acquired them, used and still is using them for mining, and then they had to order another run of chips from TSMC after this happened.  That's why the chips are so late.

Who acquired them?  When?  How do you know these chips are the same as the chips we ordered?  This is exactly what I am talking about.  You have no information to back any of these accusations up except "I saw a picture!!!".

Tracking Info

Manufacturer Silkscreen and timestamping on the chips themselves (Why the fuck are they ordered months after you had the money?)

Occam's Razor

Need I go on?

Unless there is concrete proof these chips were ordered within a few weeks of when the money was received, Avalon is lying.

Yifu said those chips went into batch #3 which was made up of 600 units.

But there is another thing I was pondering on... chips had to be paid in local currency, so they had to take 50-100K BTC and convert them into local currency... maybe this step is where things went south.

Just a thought.

spiccioli