[Closed]R17x: Black Arrow Prospero X-3 <DZMC Exclusive> $130 / 40GHS

[philipma1957]

I whoopsied.

Bob you are a stand up guy and have done a lot of hard work for the coop. I hope this works out for you and the rest of us.

  best regards phil

[1714485061]

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[1714485061]

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[1714485061]

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[bobsag3]

I whoopsied.

Bob you are a stand up guy and have done a lot of hard work for the coop. I hope this works out for you and the rest of us.

  best regards phil

I have gone ahead and booked my flight to the UK- Ill be getting in there next tuesday. I will as usually provide as much info and post as many pictures as I can.

[Lloydie]

I whoopsied.

Bob you are a stand up guy and have done a lot of hard work for the coop. I hope this works out for you and the rest of us.

  best regards phil

I have gone ahead and booked my flight to the UK- Ill be getting in there next tuesday. I will as usually provide as much info and post as many pictures as I can.

Hi Bob. Good luck. Suspect it is fubar. Btw, can you please check my PM to you on 15 x r19? Thanks.

[thomas_s]

The following rounds will have a hold placed on transfers, this hold means no transfers will be completed until the hold is lifted.

R17
R17-2
R18
R18B
R19

This hold is being placed because a few addresses are still needed and a constant change in the spreadsheet can cause problems.

If you are a shareholder in one of these rounds and have not provided a payout address you will be receiving an email this weekend requesting one please reply to it immediately, if you purchased in multiple of these buys you will get one for each you must reply to each email you receive.


ENSURE YOUR REPLY HAS THE ORIGINAL EMAIL IN IT.

[pkbudz]

Thanks for being so professional guys. The effort keeping everyone updated is appreciated.

[sticky]

thanks for staying on top of it guys.

any chance of selling our shares back if something isnt worked out soon?

[thomas_s]

thanks for staying on top of it guys.

any chance of selling our shares back if something isnt worked out soon?

You are more than welcome to sell your shares to someone else and have them transferred (after the spreadsheet maintenance is done) however the DZMC doesn't have a cash / BTC reserve to buy back / refund as soon as an order is placed it is paid for.

[smooth]

thanks for staying on top of it guys.

any chance of selling our shares back if something isnt worked out soon?

You are more than welcome to sell your shares to someone else and have them transferred (after the spreadsheet maintenance is done) however the DZMC doesn't have a cash / BTC reserve to buy back / refund as soon as an order is placed it is paid for.

What does this mean on the OP?

Once sales begin, Refunds are available up until unit ships at 1.5% restock fee.

[bitterdog]

thanks for staying on top of it guys.

any chance of selling our shares back if something isnt worked out soon?

You are more than welcome to sell your shares to someone else and have them transferred (after the spreadsheet maintenance is done) however the DZMC doesn't have a cash / BTC reserve to buy back / refund as soon as an order is placed it is paid for.

What does this mean on the OP?

Once sales begin, Refunds are available up until unit ships at 1.5% restock fee.

Ouch

[thomas_s]

thanks for staying on top of it guys.

any chance of selling our shares back if something isnt worked out soon?

You are more than welcome to sell your shares to someone else and have them transferred (after the spreadsheet maintenance is done) however the DZMC doesn't have a cash / BTC reserve to buy back / refund as soon as an order is placed it is paid for.

What does this mean on the OP?

Once sales begin, Refunds are available up until unit ships at 1.5% restock fee.

Unfortunately this is not valid as it is part of R16 (we copy paste from previous rounds) and this is under a section titled R16.

The second post deals with all payment related questions including refund terms that apply to R17

[smooth]

thanks for staying on top of it guys.

any chance of selling our shares back if something isnt worked out soon?

You are more than welcome to sell your shares to someone else and have them transferred (after the spreadsheet maintenance is done) however the DZMC doesn't have a cash / BTC reserve to buy back / refund as soon as an order is placed it is paid for.

What does this mean on the OP?

Once sales begin, Refunds are available up until unit ships at 1.5% restock fee.

Unfortunately this is not valid as it is part of R16 (we copy paste from previous rounds) and this is under a section titled R16.

The second post deals with all payment related questions including refund terms that apply to R17

Sorry to be crude, but that's bullshit. I am and always have been very suspicious of preorders and I bought into this deal in large part on the basis of: a) assurances from DZ representatives that they were in close contact with BA and this preorder, unlike most of the rest, would not be the usual scam shipment delay, and b) the stated refund policy in the OP that I quoted, which gave me protection from the usual preorder scam.

I've been very patient with all the problems on the other rounds and I have been a strong supporter of DZ, recommending it these forums several times. No, the string R16 does not appear at all in the OP, in fact it mentions R17 several times, and if you guys aren't going to honor your stated refund policy then you are scammers in my view. End of discussion.

Please reconsider, or I will be trust rating you as scammers and I will also be as vocal in explaining how you are scammers as I was in recommending you.

EDIT: Just so you know, I have saved an image of the OP in case you should get the dumb idea that taking it down or editing it after the fact is a good way to solve the problem.

EDIT 2: Gee, let's look on YOUR web site (still linked from OP), where I ordered these lousy shares, and see what that says. What do you know? It says the same thing:

"Refunds: Refunds are discouraged because of the chaos caused in Group Buys, but if necessary, you will be refunded before the miner ships, at a 1.5% restock fee. After the miner ships, no refunds are available."

https://www.dzminercoop.com/products/r17-black-arrow-prospero-x-3-limited-quantities

(I've saved an image of that one too.)

[TechByPC]

Thanks for being so professional guys. The effort keeping everyone updated is appreciated.

Agree, please keep it up. We're all in a bad spot together.

smooth has a very valid point from my small point of view, however I believe that everyone understands and appreciates the predicament you are in. So long as you continue to look out for the interests of people who want out in addition to the people who will stay in I think we can hold this together. Let's not have a run on the bank situation here as it will end badly for everyone except BA, who has both our money and the means to produce our hardware eventually, and who, as far as I can tell, are the only ones who did not act in full faith.

One thing that always bothered me about the BFL debacle was that they would not easily let people with pre-orders out of their purchases. It's obvious that there was still tremendous demand for their products by the hugely inflated eBay prices once they did start shipping. Letting people have refunds moves later orders up in the queue, provides direct retail (often cheaper) access for people who missed out on pre-ordering, and creates less of an aftermarket environment in which scams flourish. With that in mind I would hope that you can negotiate with BA a partial refund to accommodate members like smooth who may want a refund instead of waiting. Good luck on your trip!

[thomas_s]

thanks for staying on top of it guys.

any chance of selling our shares back if something isnt worked out soon?

You are more than welcome to sell your shares to someone else and have them transferred (after the spreadsheet maintenance is done) however the DZMC doesn't have a cash / BTC reserve to buy back / refund as soon as an order is placed it is paid for.

What does this mean on the OP?

Once sales begin, Refunds are available up until unit ships at 1.5% restock fee.

Unfortunately this is not valid as it is part of R16 (we copy paste from previous rounds) and this is under a section titled R16.

The second post deals with all payment related questions including refund terms that apply to R17

Sorry to be crude, but that's bullshit. I am and always have been very suspicious of preorders and I bought into this deal in large part on the basis of: a) assurances from DZ representatives that they were in close contact with BA and this preorder, unlike most of the rest, would not be the usual scam shipment delay, and b) the stated refund policy in the OP that I quoted, which gave me protection from the usual preorder scam.

I've been very patient with all the problems on the other rounds and I have been a strong supporter of DZ, recommending it these forums several times. No, the string R16 does not appear at all in the OP, in fact it mentions R17 several times, and if you guys aren't going to honor your stated refund policy then you are scammers in my view. End of discussion.

Please reconsider, or I will be trust rating you as scammers and I will also be as vocal in explaining how you are scammers as I was in recommending you.

EDIT: Just so you know, I have saved an image of the OP in case you should get the dumb idea that taking it down or editing it after the fact is a good way to solve the problem.

EDIT 2: Gee, let's look on YOUR web site (still linked from OP), where I ordered these lousy shares, and see what that says. What do you know? It says the same thing:

"Refunds: Refunds are discouraged because of the chaos caused in Group Buys, but if necessary, you will be refunded before the miner ships, at a 1.5% restock fee. After the miner ships, no refunds are available."

https://www.dzminercoop.com/products/r17-black-arrow-prospero-x-3-limited-quantities

(I've saved an image of that one too.)

Again I do apologize, if we were able to close and refund the round we would but unless BA refunds which they've said they won't at this time, so we can't. The link you gave is for the new platform, I have logs of all sales with the new platform and R17 was never sold.

You can continue to try and request a refund but we don't have any funds to refund, the company we purchased the machines from is going to meet with BA to see what can be done.

[philipma1957]

thomas_s  ,  bobsag3   and Dyslexic zombei

I am sorry the coop has been burned.    I can survive the burning as I did make decent fiat on the other rounds. I hope that we survive this. Good luck and God bless.

[bobsag3]

thomas_s  ,  bobsag3   and Dyslexic zombei

I am sorry the coop has been burned.    I can survive the burning as I did make decent fiat on the other rounds. I hope that we survive this. Good luck and God bless.

Ive got my 2 redeye flights booked, we will see how things look when I get over there.
In case anyone had not seen, the official update posted today by BA on their forums:
http://ecointalk.net/topic/463-we-want-answers/?p=2181

That posted there is the most up to date info I have at this time.

[railzand]

bring your waterproofs bob this whole country's under water

give me a shout if you need anything while you're over here

wish you the best of british luck

[TookDk]

Again I do apologize, if we were able to close and refund the round we would but unless BA refunds which they've said they won't at this time, so we can't. The link you gave is for the new platform, I have logs of all sales with the new platform and R17 was never sold.

You can continue to try and request a refund but we don't have any funds to refund, the company we purchased the machines from is going to meet with BA to see what can be done.

I would love to have a refund as well, since the chance just to break even do not look good.
But I am also reasonable; yes DZ is a big business now - but in its essence r17 is still a group buy with many risks involved.
I knew the risk and I will face the consequences and take my loss.

The shares are not completely worthless if the X3 turn out to be a reliable miner that can generate a steady income (imo), so there is still chance to recover some of the loss.

I do not blame thomas_s, bobsag3 and DyslexicZombei for this situation.
I have full trust that DZ coop will do their part in getting the best out of the situation.

Bobsag3; put on your best business-face and get a good deal for us

[smooth]

You are more than welcome to sell your shares to someone else and have them transferred (after the spreadsheet maintenance is done) however the DZMC doesn't have a cash / BTC reserve to buy back / refund as soon as an order is placed it is paid for.

You can spin how you like. My guess is that the content was copied over from the old site to the new site. I know for a fact that I relied on the quoted refund terms, certainly from the OP and most likely from the web site as well, when I ordered my shares.

Maybe with this only-two-month delay and the compensation plan not everyone will want a refund. It is entirely possible that many will want to stick it it out with you, and things will work out. If so I wish you the best.

I however, relied on a refund policy for my shares (a small number BTW -- fewer than phil) and I expect the refund policy to be honored until and unless you claim you guys are flat broke (in which case we can discuss liquidating assets to meet your obligations). Anything less than that is fraud, plain and simple.  Goes with the territory I suppose, but I hoped you guys were better than that.

[newuser12345]

I have to agree with Smooth.  I'm honestly surprised there isn't more of an uproar about the changing of TOS after folks have committed their funds.  There are probably some folks who aren't yet aware, as I haven't seen any email notification about the delay.

Also, I don't have a screenshot but I believe the below post was quoted and responded to by one of the DZMC guys with a statement confirming refunds if BA fails to ship in February.  That response seems to be missing now, but it was what swayed me to take a risk in this group buy.

In for three shares to start.

What if Black Arrow fails to ship on February? What is the plan then? Black Arrow seems legit, but I just want to be clear on the plan from the start.

[Lloydie]

I would love to have a refund as well, since the chance just to break even do not look good.
But I am also reasonable; yes DZ is a big business now - but in its essence r17 is still a group buy with many risks involved.
I knew the risk and I will face the consequences and take my loss.

The shares are not completely worthless if the X3 turn out to be a reliable miner that can generate a steady income (imo), so there is still chance to recover some of the loss.

I do not blame thomas_s, bobsag3 and DyslexicZombei for this situation.
I have full trust that DZ coop will do their part in getting the best out of the situation.

Bobsag3; put on your best business-face and get a good deal for us

BA chips per current specs will never be competitive versus AM chips. BA chips will be two months later. It will also draw 0.75 versus 0.35 w/ghs at typical speeds.

BA needs to realise the above fact and immediately offer customer refunds or build PCBs for AM chips or combo of both. If BA produces their own chips, we will not see a return on our investment in Btc terms. Maybe not even in fiat.

So, I don't want anyone to put on rose coloured glasses. The comp has comprehensively beaten BA.

Bob: please discuss this fact with BA and help them realise that their current path is fubar. They need to dump their chip and their back end team who has not performed as expected.