|
BrianNowhere
|
 |
April 04, 2014, 04:32:44 PM |
|
Why? The rest of billion nxt would be distributed among so many different users, they will never be able to coordinate together to launch a double spending attack (even if individually all are dishonest).
Not if the people who hold that percentage Nxt are all small stakeholders (wide distribution) who don't bother to run open clients. Then you've got a security problem. |
NXT: 4957831430947123625
|
|
|
|
Eadeqa
|
|
April 04, 2014, 04:38:12 PM |
|
Why? The rest of billion nxt would be distributed among so many different users, they will never be able to coordinate together to launch a double spending attack (even if individually all are dishonest).
Not if the people who hold that percentage Nxt are all small stakeholders (wide distribution) who don't bother to run open clients. Then you've got a security problem. How would that be? If people with small amount of nxt don't run nodes, the big holders still get to forge most blocks. How has anything changed? You need one person (or a large group all coordinating together) with more than 500 million nxt or something to generate more than 10 blocks in a row |
|
|
|
|
BrianNowhere
|
|
April 04, 2014, 04:49:17 PM |
|
Why? The rest of billion nxt would be distributed among so many different users, they will never be able to coordinate together to launch a double spending attack (even if individually all are dishonest).
Not if the people who hold that percentage Nxt are all small stakeholders (wide distribution) who don't bother to run open clients. Then you've got a security problem. How would that be? If people with small amount of nxt don't run nodes, the big holders still get to forge most blocks. How has anything changed? You need one person (or a large group all coordinating together) with more than 500 million nxt or something to generate more than 10 blocks in a row My understanding is that 51% of ALL stake needs to be running open clients AND be good guys. Are you saying that it's only 51% of all open running clients that need to be good guys? In this case if 50% of ALL stake-holders were shut off, then 25.1% of the the remaining stake could bring down Nxt? That seems even worse. |
NXT: 4957831430947123625
|
|
|
|
rdanneskjoldr
|
|
April 04, 2014, 04:53:25 PM |
|
Im sure all the trashtalk of Briannowhere could be locked with one sentence explaining it mathematically.But people just ignore him.When you solve this he will come with another stupid claim,saying he is legit because he did something for the community.
And dont tell me to be nice with him.I am nice with absolutely everyone, but not with a guy who tries to tilt everyone who is putting much effort here and spend his days creating a bad atmosphere in the thread. I cant believe someone even criticized TwinWinNerD for the escrow, when Brian is just here trying to destroy all your efforts.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Eadeqa
|
|
April 04, 2014, 04:58:50 PM |
|
Why? The rest of billion nxt would be distributed among so many different users, they will never be able to coordinate together to launch a double spending attack (even if individually all are dishonest).
Not if the people who hold that percentage Nxt are all small stakeholders (wide distribution) who don't bother to run open clients. Then you've got a security problem. How would that be? If people with small amount of nxt don't run nodes, the big holders still get to forge most blocks. How has anything changed? You need one person (or a large group all coordinating together) with more than 500 million nxt or something to generate more than 10 blocks in a row My understanding is that 51% of ALL stake needs to be running open clients AND be good guys. That's assuming the rest are all dishonest and coordinating together. An impossibility |
|
|
|
|
DrearyUrbanite
|
|
April 04, 2014, 05:00:31 PM |
|
I don't believe Brian with 12K nxt ever forger a block (correct me if I am wrong).
My account number is below. I ran an open client 24/7 from the day I opened it, had over 23K a large part of that time and never forged a single block. Great. Doesn't that answer your own question? Not everyone with small amount of nxt is needed as they can't forge anyway. The frustration of being unable to forge blocks is justified (and if one actually does forge, it's peanuts). Not only users with a 23k stake dislike this, 100k/200k/300k's do too. I've heard it countless times. I have about 100k NXT and I do not bother forging to earn more Nxt, I only bother forging for the network itself. Without incentive though, I am not the only one who believes this to be a key issue of the network. Yes yes, I know, nodecoin is supposed to solve this issue, yet that's kind of a workaround. Reality is that forging is not profitable at all. The problem is that people misunderstand Nxt's forging model as an actual alternative to "mining". Why? Because it was partially marketed this way: I remember this video comparing heavy mining machines in Iceland with a guy on a boat forging Nxt with his phone. I have nearly 100K NXT and forge constantly, not because I expect to make a fortune doing so, but to secure the network, protect my investment, and because it is what a member of the community should do. I find the bellyaching over the lack of rewards from forging nearly as distasteful as the complaining about initial distribution. NXT is an incredible bargain at $.03 so stop bitching and buy some. |
|
|
|
|
BrianNowhere
|
|
April 04, 2014, 05:01:11 PM |
|
Im sure all the trashtalk of Briannowhere could be locked with one sentence explaining it mathematically.But people just ignore him.When you solve this he will come with another stupid claim,saying he is legit because he did something for the community.
And dont tell me to be nice with him.I am nice with absolutely everyone, but not with a guy who tries to tilt everyone who is putting much effort here and spend his days creating a bad atmosphere in the thread. I cant believe someone even criticized TwinWinNerD for the escrow, when Brian is just here trying to destroy all your efforts.
Yeah, I'm trying to destroy Nxt. That's why I invested in it. It's people like you who convinced me to stop. I was never into dogecoin but you people could learn a lot from that community. You guys love emule because there's no substance. I'm the worst person in the world because I ask uncomfortable questions you don't want to face up to. |
NXT: 4957831430947123625
|
|
|
|
Eadeqa
|
|
April 04, 2014, 05:03:35 PM |
|
Im sure all the trashtalk of Briannowhere could be locked with one sentence explaining it mathematically.But people just ignore him.When you solve this he will come with another stupid claim,saying he is legit because he did something for the community.
And dont tell me to be nice with him.I am nice with absolutely everyone, but not with a guy who tries to tilt everyone who is putting much effort here and spend his days creating a bad atmosphere in the thread. I cant believe someone even criticized TwinWinNerD for the escrow, when Brian is just here trying to destroy all your efforts.
Yeah, I'm trying to destroy Nxt. That's why I invested in it. It's people like you who convinced me to stop. I was never into dogecoin but you people could learn a lot from that community. You guys love emule because there's no substance. I'm the worst person in the world because I ask uncomfortable questions you don't want to face up to. I thought you said you were leaving if someone buys rest of your nxt? |
|
|
|
|
instacalm
|
|
April 04, 2014, 05:04:53 PM |
|
I find the bellyaching over the lack of rewards from forging nearly as distasteful as the complaining about initial distribution. NXT is an incredible bargain at $.03 so stop bitching and buy some.
I am not complaining at all. It is not so much about the reward but more about the lack of incentive to secure the network. To think that users are going to forge merely in order to secure the network, that is wrong. That is (i.e. you and me) the far minority of users. We've had this important discussion before: the current forging model is potentially a critical issue. FYI I've been with Nxt for months. Not every critical input is against the project... |
|
|
|
|
Tercel
Member
 Offline
Activity: 87
Merit: 10
|
|
April 04, 2014, 05:08:05 PM |
|
Actually I run many nodes to protect the NXT network. Just becuz I wanna secure it.
An absolutely awesome coin, why not help?
|
Fly high~
King of the sky~
|
|
|
|
BrianNowhere
|
|
April 04, 2014, 05:08:25 PM |
|
That's assuming the rest are all dishonest and coordinating together. An impossibility.
If 50% of all stakeholders shut down their clients (bitching at them for whining about not getting rewards doesn't help, they don't read bitcointalk.org) 26% of 1B is 260MM This is what I want to know. In a nutshell. If a Malicious person is able to acquire 260MM Nxt (current cost around 7.5MM to 10MM) by using pools or whatever can they bring down Nxt? How likely is this? It seems possible to me. If it's possible, even if it's unlikely, then Nxt is built on sand and I would not advise anyone to base their business around it. C-F-B or Mtchcl (maths guy) could shut me up for all time by giving me a definitive answer here. |
NXT: 4957831430947123625
|
|
|
|
Eadeqa
|
|
April 04, 2014, 05:09:20 PM |
|
I find the bellyaching over the lack of rewards from forging nearly as distasteful as the complaining about initial distribution. NXT is an incredible bargain at $.03 so stop bitching and buy some.
It is not so much about the reward but more about the lack of incentive to secure the network. If you think user's are going to secure the network in order to secure the network, you are wrong. Once again users with small amount of nxt do nothing to "secure" the network as they can't even forge. All they do is provide bandwidth. Since big holders forge most often, they do have very good reason to run nodes and forge. |
|
|
|
|
BrianNowhere
|
|
April 04, 2014, 05:10:02 PM |
|
I thought you said you were leaving if someone buys rest of your nxt?
I'll be gone pretty soon don't worry. |
NXT: 4957831430947123625
|
|
|
|
instacalm
|
|
April 04, 2014, 05:10:35 PM
Last edit: April 04, 2014, 05:23:59 PM by instacash |
|
I'll be gone pretty soon don't worry.
Why so negative? There are issues, yes indeed. But no need to be radical about it, imho. The project is going forward day by day and is it not remarkable where it is after just 5 months? I find the bellyaching over the lack of rewards from forging nearly as distasteful as the complaining about initial distribution. NXT is an incredible bargain at $.03 so stop bitching and buy some.
It is not so much about the reward but more about the lack of incentive to secure the network. If you think user's are going to secure the network in order to secure the network, you are wrong. Once again users with small amount of nxt do nothing to "secure" the network as they can't even forge. All they do is provide bandwidth. Since big holders forge most often, they do have very good reason to run nodes and forge. Eadeqa, you perfectly point out the issue of the network. |
|
|
|
|
|
DrearyUrbanite
|
|
April 04, 2014, 05:12:05 PM |
|
I find the bellyaching over the lack of rewards from forging nearly as distasteful as the complaining about initial distribution. NXT is an incredible bargain at $.03 so stop bitching and buy some.
I am not complaining at all. It is not so much about the reward but more about the lack of incentive to secure the network. To think that users are going to forge merely in order to secure the network, that is wrong. That is (i.e. you and me) the far minority of users. We've had this important discussion before: the current forging model is potentially a critical issue. FYI I've been with Nxt for months. Not every critical input is against the project... I am not saying that you are complaining but what is the financial incentive to lock the door of your house when you go out? Securing it to protect your investments is enough. |
|
|
|
|
Eadeqa
|
|
April 04, 2014, 05:14:25 PM |
|
That's assuming the rest are all dishonest and coordinating together. An impossibility.
If 50% of all stakeholders shut down their clients (bitching at them for whining about not getting rewards doesn't help, they don't read bitcointalk.org) 26% of 1B is 260MM Please point me to an account that has 260M nxt. That's 7 million dollars (even at current low rate). Why would I invest 7 million dollars in nxt and then do anything to the network that will destroy my own 7 million dollars investment.
If you have answer to that bold part, please share it. |
|
|
|
|
Daedelus
|
|
April 04, 2014, 05:17:52 PM |
|
Im sure all the trashtalk of Briannowhere could be locked with one sentence explaining it mathematically.But people just ignore him.When you solve this he will come with another stupid claim,saying he is legit because he did something for the community.
And dont tell me to be nice with him.I am nice with absolutely everyone, but not with a guy who tries to tilt everyone who is putting much effort here and spend his days creating a bad atmosphere in the thread. I cant believe someone even criticized TwinWinNerD for the escrow, when Brian is just here trying to destroy all your efforts.
Yeah, I'm trying to destroy Nxt. That's why I invested in it. It's people like you who convinced me to stop. I was never into dogecoin but you people could learn a lot from that community. You guys love emule because there's no substance. I'm the worst person in the world because I ask uncomfortable questions you don't want to face up to. Brian, I remain convinced you are a very skilled and impressive troll. I don't believe you have a genuine interest in the questions you ask. This is the third cycle of building social capital in the community over a week or two before splurging it by turning thid thread into you own fud blog. I know you are knowledgeable about nxt so can only assume you are deliberately missing the details out you must have read with the rest of us. Find the info on leased forging and hubs (you have read about this as you have referenced it). Find the discussion about how leased forging could be done without it leading to centralisation. Read cfbs transparent forging thread again. Find ciyam and mtchls discussion and maths here about the impact of penalties and distribution of nxts on the length of forging streaks. Or just remember it if you are wilfully forgetting. Cfb didn't answer the dev of mastercoin on lets talk bitcoin when he was talking fud. Draw your own conclusions. And I am not going to spoon feed you, before you ask  I am going to join cfb  |
|
|
|
|
|
BrianNowhere
|
|
April 04, 2014, 05:23:08 PM |
|
Please point me to an account that has 260M nxt. That's 7 million dollars (even at current low rate). Why would I invest 7 million dollars in nxt and then do anything to the network that will destroy my own 7 million dollars investment.
If you have answer to that bold part, please share it.
7MM is not that much money. That's a fucking paltry sum to be able to take down Nxt. Some guy at Goldman Sachs could wipe you out just to give Ethereum an edge. 7MM would be a cheap investment for something like that. You've basically answered me. Nxt is EXTREMELY vulnerable and built on sand. |
NXT: 4957831430947123625
|
|
|
BitAddict
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1190
Merit: 1001
|
|
April 04, 2014, 05:25:32 PM |
|
That's assuming the rest are all dishonest and coordinating together. An impossibility.
If 50% of all stakeholders shut down their clients (bitching at them for whining about not getting rewards doesn't help, they don't read bitcointalk.org) 26% of 1B is 260MM Please point me to an account that has 260M nxt. That's 7 million dollars (even at current low rate). Why would I invest 7 million dollars in nxt and then do anything to the network that will destroy my own 7 million dollars investment.
If you have answer to that bold part, please share it. If you try to buy 260M it will cost you FAR more than 7 millions. You can't find that volume unless you rise the price significantly to make big stakeholders to sell. |
|
|
|
|
|
rdanneskjoldr
|
|
April 04, 2014, 05:26:56 PM |
|
Yeah, I'm trying to destroy Nxt. That's why I invested in it. It's people like you who convinced me to stop. I was never into dogecoin but you people could learn a lot from that community.
That argument is nothing. We dont care.Nobody cares. Like i dont care how much cfb or others devs invested here. Fact is you just bring continuously weird discussions.Bringing occassionally a legit one like now DOESNT GIVE YOU CREDIT. If you cry for not forging a block, you just have no idea about nxt. |
|
|
|
|
|
