NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[BitcoinForumator]

Are you talking about price going to 0.00001 or 0.0001?

0.00001 seems mission impossible to me.

Impossible? In what time frame I see that easily a target for NXT.

Are you talking about 0.00001 or 0.0001?

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[TwinWinNerD]

Are you talking about price going to 0.00001 or 0.0001?

0.00001 seems mission impossible to me.

Impossible? In what time frame I see that easily a target for NXT.

but he said: "despite the dumping" so he means the price will appreciate.

[jl777]

I am no programmer, but i have a proposal to solve the mixing problem.

How about a pooled approach that is not traceable?

We have at specific times per day (or maybe once a day if traffic is low) a mixing event where everyone can send their coins to an automated mixing address that collects all coins. Once the specific time comes, the logic of the address creates packs of 10000 NXTs and sends them to specific addresses. For example, if you send 100.000 NXT to that address, your coins will be split into 10k pieces on 10 addresses. Those addresses are generated by the mixing algo and the private code is sent to original sender via encrypted address that is only readable if the private key of the original address is known.

Rules:
You can send whatever amount between 1000 and higher
The splitting follows those rules, Balance/10000 --> remainder/1000 --> remainder /100 --> rest is donation(? or maybe remainder/10?)
E.g. If you send 17.200 then you get 1 10k, 7 1k and 2 100 outputs.
The interval of the mixing is depending on the traffic. Only if enough people participate, the mixing will be anonymous.
The passwords are send per AM and are encrypted per the private key of the original account. (i guess that is possible)

What do you think?

This is exactly what i had thought, it's simple and it should work?
But my thought was instead of having a timer for returning funds, i was thinking of reaching certain pooling amount before returning which sometimes will cause a delay when not enough people is using it, but if your desperate for anonymity i think you will have the patient too.

My idea was to limit Capacity of Mixer Pool to 1,000 or 10,000 addresses depending on level of anonymity, all Mixer Amounts only accepts exact 1000nxt+1nxt fee, therefor in the Pool there will be 1,000 addresses of 1,000nxt and a random address will be chosen only after the pool reaches past it's capacity (1,000), and returns your 1,000nxt -1 nxt fee.

Works something like this;
OriginalAddressIn(A)-->MixerAddresses From Pool(A-Z)--->NewAddressOut(A-Z)
Would this NOT work???

Well atleast this approach can be implemented off-chain. Do you guys think there is enough intrest in this to give it a shot?

Without cryptographic proof, source code reviewed, unlikely to be used to any large degree
This is a totally nontrivial problem
Doubtful any ad hoc method has actual annonymyzing power

[Zahlen]

but how can my transactions help me with forging?

They don't. Anon was talking about other people's (in particular, the other X mil guy's) transactions.

[bithic]

We just need the 288 byte zeroknowledge proof mechanism

Yep. Searching various related articles too.

How will the ZeroCoin project benefit from being implemented on top of Nxt? Let's build a compelling case for them to join forces.

Biggest benefit i see for them is that they can skip the long difficult process of getting a secure blockchain with hundreds of servers
Also when TF is doing many TPS, so will zerocash

Great! This is HUGE incentive for ZeroCoin to work with Nxt!

[Kodoka]

So unfortunately I have to sell off my Nxt.
Is dgex the way to go?
 Also, when depositing to dgex, you are asked for your "ACCOUNT TOKEN", is that just my account number?

[TwinWinNerD]

I am no programmer, but i have a proposal to solve the mixing problem.

How about a pooled approach that is not traceable?

We have at specific times per day (or maybe once a day if traffic is low) a mixing event where everyone can send their coins to an automated mixing address that collects all coins. Once the specific time comes, the logic of the address creates packs of 10000 NXTs and sends them to specific addresses. For example, if you send 100.000 NXT to that address, your coins will be split into 10k pieces on 10 addresses. Those addresses are generated by the mixing algo and the private code is sent to original sender via encrypted address that is only readable if the private key of the original address is known.

Rules:
You can send whatever amount between 1000 and higher
The splitting follows those rules, Balance/10000 --> remainder/1000 --> remainder /100 --> rest is donation(? or maybe remainder/10?)
E.g. If you send 17.200 then you get 1 10k, 7 1k and 2 100 outputs.
The interval of the mixing is depending on the traffic. Only if enough people participate, the mixing will be anonymous.
The passwords are send per AM and are encrypted per the private key of the original account. (i guess that is possible)

What do you think?

This is exactly what i had thought, it's simple and it should work?
But my thought was instead of having a timer for returning funds, i was thinking of reaching certain pooling amount before returning which sometimes will cause a delay when not enough people is using it, but if your desperate for anonymity i think you will have the patient too.

My idea was to limit Capacity of Mixer Pool to 1,000 or 10,000 addresses depending on level of anonymity, all Mixer Amounts only accepts exact 1000nxt+1nxt fee, therefor in the Pool there will be 1,000 addresses of 1,000nxt and a random address will be chosen only after the pool reaches past it's capacity (1,000), and returns your 1,000nxt -1 nxt fee.

Works something like this;
OriginalAddressIn(A)-->MixerAddresses From Pool(A-Z)--->NewAddressOut(A-Z)
Would this NOT work???

Well atleast this approach can be implemented off-chain. Do you guys think there is enough intrest in this to give it a shot?

Without cryptographic proof, source code reviewed, unlikely to be used to any large degree
This is a totally nontrivial problem
Doubtful any ad hoc method has actual annonymyzing power

Yes i know.
My implemention would be a trivial "solution" at best.

Here is how i would go about it:

1. You make an account on the site.
2. Then you specify where your next deposit will come from.
3. You can deposit whatever amount you want.
4. You can request cashouts to whatever adress you want. But the cashout amount will only ever be round 1.000 NXT (or 100 NXT or 10.000NXT depending on the traffic)

How would one be able to connect the deposit with the withdrawal addresses?

[dzarmush]

off topic:

Interesting development at eMunie what I told for months now, and where the whole emunie community accused me and attacked me for is becoming true.

Emunie is now emunie ltd. (yes an compagny) and applied with UK law. A lot of the early community members have left emunie for that reason. So one of the consequences is

they can not run any exchange in the software, etc…

Pin

Didn't find anything on their forum. Do you have a link?

[TwinWinNerD]

So unfortunately I have to sell off my Nxt. Is dgex the way to go? Also, when depositing to dgex, you are asked for your "ACCOUNT TOKEN", is that just my account number?

Where do you see an "account token"?

Also i might be intrested in buying some NXT off you. Can offer BTC. Pm if intrested

[dzarmush]

So unfortunately I have to sell off my Nxt. Is dgex the way to go? Also, when depositing to dgex, you are asked for your "ACCOUNT TOKEN", is that just my account number?

You'll probably have to wait up to 8-12 hours for a deposit after you send Nxt.
As for "ACCOUNT TOKEN", you have to send coins from the client, NOT from Bter or any other exchange. You need to have an access to an account you send money from.

[btc2nxt]

There is less than 100,000 NXT for sale at less than .000085
We need more sellers to put some big volumes at .00005!

fast money guys, buy some DOGE it just jumped up. You will miss a big DOGE move if you don;t sell NXT right now and buy DOGE!

Hurry.

James

buy 0.5btc doge

[Zahlen]

There's a lot that could be done to help with communication. Instead of just a traditional forum (section -> thread -> post), there could additionally be support for the following, e.g.
 
-instead of giant quote pyramids, there could be slashdot/reddit tree-style threads.
-people like salsa, pin and joefox are making regular aggregator link posts, which is great. Even better if these could be stickied. Better still imo, if the most important links and their description could be displayed directly, instead of having to go into the stickied post to find them. Basically, the more important and/or the more people it involves, the more visible it should be.
-more options to customize what you want to follow than just a watchlist. Maybe a reddit style way of assembling favourite subreddits. Maybe topic tags for threads and posts.
- I've mentioned summary and definitions of technical terms before. Maybe a small, fixed frame/window for summary of the ongoing discussion (update permissions decided by topic starter say?) Mouseover technical terms/acronyms to get definitions (maybe these could be databased in our wiki? What do you think joe?)
- maybe integration of real-time communication tools like gdocs or the old Google Wave, or at least a chatbox.
- personally, I'd love LaTeX support so that I can write math using less English

Lots of possibilities. But most importantly, the site admins and devs need to experiment with ideas like this and interfaces. Find out what works best for most folks.

nxtcrypto, are you guys (or anyone else) up for this? I don't know web coding, so even though I suggest all this, I can't help with the implementation I can do interface mockups though. And the LaTeX support part, if you guys are interested in adding that, I can help. Let me know.

www.nxtcrypto.org here. Trying to understand exactly what you are wanting? We do have a forum and wiki going on. Give me more specifics about what you're thinking before I can say yes or no.

Hey QBTC, great work with the site It'll take a lot of time for me to expand on all of this (and other ideas). I'll slowly post about them in the nxtcrypto form META section over the next few days. But for starters, I'll talk a bit about LaTeX support (the last item):

LaTeX is a markup language, like HTML and wiki markup, it's used to format rather than to program. It's mainly used for typesetting. It does a fantastic job of displaying math expressions, so it's used by a lot of scientists, mathematicians and CS people. Compare for instance, the math expressions in here vs the math in this post I just made.

Wikipedia, Wordpress and some forums support LaTeX. joefox says he's going to try to support it in the wiki too.

The links I've shown support LaTeX by converting the expressions in LaTeX syntax into image files. There are scripts that do this. (Don't have links to them handy, ask me if you want them.) It's commonly used, so you can find a lot of help with getting it set up. But this approach has some drawbacks: expressions can't be copied, and the size of images messes up the separation between lines. All this may not be a big deal. Another much more slick approach is MathJax which renders expressions using fonts! This requires Javascript to be activated though.


EDIT: I've just replied to ~5 posts from across dozens of pages in this megathread, all the while going back through the thread (and all the quote pyramids and different convos...) to reference stuff. That's the current communications burden...

[dzarmush]

So unfortunately I have to sell off my Nxt. Is dgex the way to go? Also, when depositing to dgex, you are asked for your "ACCOUNT TOKEN", is that just my account number?

Dont use dgex. Use bter. Dgex fees are way too high.

Good point. If you need Btc asap you'll pay 2.8% for withdraw. Also atm the price is higher on Bter.

[rickyjames]

Any UK Nxt holders? We need to position ourselves to get on Bittylicious to increase liquidity. The ability to purchase Nxt without Bitcoin is a big deal and one we should put some energy towards.

I was hoping somebody else would step up to the plate on this one, but since they haven't. here's my two cents, er, shillings worth.  I have a UK Barclays bank account I use to fund my online poker adventures.  It's a totally legal one in my own name, no funny business; I've filed the correct paperwork on it with the IRS and Department of the Treasury here in the US and even voluntarily gave up the number for it during my last security clearance interview.  I go thru a proxy and look like I'm in London since the online poker sites block me otherwise coming from an American IP address block.  All of these gyrations are due to the 2006 UIEGA anti-online-poker act that was passed here in America, land of the free; but I digress...

Bottom line, I've got the UK bank account but I have no desire to sell any of the NXT I've accumulated.  However, I understand the importance of getting NXT hooked up to Bittylicious so I'm willing to try and help.  If I've got enough public trust built up here, maybe people could dump NXT they wanted to sell into one of my toy NXT accounts, Bittilocious could take it out of that account to give to a buyer, send GBP to my Barclays account, and I could send that back to the original NXT holders via Moneybookers/Skrill (I've also got accounts there, too.)

This would require me to be a trusted middleman, which I'm OK with if you are.  

If we really want to pursue this, let me know, I'll do my part to get NXT rolling in the UK.

[btc2nxt]

You can kick this pig, is going nowhere. One of your big stakeholders in all respect of NXT dumped 1M coins on Bter just to let you all see I can.
I hope you all not surprised this pig is not moving.
The big stakeholders are offloading for more than a weeks now and they will continue to do so for months so don’t expect price to rise in the coming months, but expect the worse, and don’t give me the“good coins getting wide spread” now sh**, cos coins going nowhere, 60 people own 80% of NXT.!!!
You were still not able to release the “official” client (vaporware) so people will have to use other clients instead.
Nexern is personally responsible for the price dip (3x he did not deliver) that will follow after my message.
Just like CCinvestor I am a whale waiting to dump but as you do not succeed to produce anything I start dump right now. (and don’t give me the “good coins getting wide spread” again)
Marketing is a disaster and a joke, you gave 1M to 1 guy that decides to give it out on stupid translations and stupid video.
Nowhere have I seen any marketing effort of value! There is no master plan, no guidance and leadership like dogecoin did, lack of that will kill this puppy soon
Meanwhile you all discussing stupid things like voting system and color of the coin, NXT get your act together and start do something cos ethereum and emunie will kill you instantly they hit the market. What you all got right now is hot air.
It is arrogant to think you have something to offer that others don’t have, if you don’t start get NXT ibn to the open before ethereum and emunie might as well sell all your freaking coins right now cos rhey are worth sh***

and where is that f*** client!

negative opinions are needed here.

i don't thinks it is impossible to copycat Nxt.  i debug it on eclipse and know a little about the source code.
nowdays Nxt is only a skeleton, many functions need to be implemented.
the time flies more quickly, the chance more little for NXT.

[PeercoinEnthusiast]

Any UK Nxt holders? We need to position ourselves to get on Bittylicious to increase liquidity. The ability to purchase Nxt without Bitcoin is a big deal and one we should put some energy towards.

I was hoping somebody else would step up to the plate on this one, but since they haven't. here's my two cents, er, shillings worth.  I have a UK Barclays bank account I use to fund my online poker adventures.  It's a totally legal one in my own name, no funny business; I've filed the correct paperwork on it with the IRS and Department of the Treasury here in the US and even voluntarily gave up the number for it during my last security clearance interview.  I go thru a proxy and look like I'm in London since the online poker sites block me otherwise coming from an American IP address block.  All of these gyrations are due to the 2006 UIEGA anti-online-poker act that was passed here in America, land of the free; but I digress...

Bottom line, I've got the UK bank account but I have no desire to sell any of the NXT I've accumulated.  However, I understand the importance of getting NXT hooked up to Bittylicious so I'm willing to try and help.  If I've got enough public trust built up here, maybe people could dump NXT they wanted to sell into one of my toy NXT accounts, Bittilocious could take it out of that account to give to a buyer, send GBP to my Barclays account, and I could send that back to the original NXT holders via Moneybookers/Skrill (I've also got accounts there, too.)

This would require me to be a trusted middleman, which I'm OK with if you are.  

If we really want to pursue this, let me know, I'll do my part to get NXT rolling in the UK.

Fantastic... way to step up!

1. It would be nice to get just a few more people willing to do the same as Ricky
2. Who could assist Ricky with the exchange?

I've went through this entire process with Peercoin. If we get our ducks in a row early, it'll be a much easier sell.

John
CoinTropolis

[loopgate88]

How will the ZeroCoin project benefit from being implemented on top of Nxt? Let's build a compelling case for them to join forces.

This is a good question. We should always be asking what we can offer the other party to help them get what they want.

I have heard that the ZeroCoin people were a little miffed that after they found a way to bring anonymity to Bitcoin, they realized that their solution would never see the light of day. The Bitcoin Devs are just too conservative with a $10 B market cap at stake...they can't afford any more screwups, so they are extra cautious.

So maybe we can tell ZeroCoin that we are happy to help them implement their solution into our blockchain, and they can also proceed with their Bitcoin fork that implements ZeroCoin.

This would show the practical versatility of their solution and give them academic bragging rights. At that point, Zerocoin would have been implemented in both a 100% PoW Bitcoin fork, and also implemented in the 100% PoS Nxt invention.

"Our truly anonymous ZeroCoin protocol has not only launched its own currency, it's also been successfully implemented into Nxt, the first 2nd generation cryptocurrency."

This would be huge news in the cryptocoin scene and would bring a lot of prestige to both Nxt and ZeroCoin.

We should also offer them a respectable bounty and let them choose to take it in Nxt or BTC or some combination of the two. If they want BTC, then we can hold a sale on the forums like they did to raise money for the cryptographic audit. I think it would be a mistake to try to shove NXT down their throats if they prefer bitcoins instead.

Great strategy! Let's do it.

[Kodoka]

So unfortunately I have to sell off my Nxt. Is dgex the way to go? Also, when depositing to dgex, you are asked for your "ACCOUNT TOKEN", is that just my account number?

You'll probably have to wait up to 8-12 hours for a deposit after you send Nxt.
As for "ACCOUNT TOKEN", you have to send coins from the client, NOT from Bter or any other exchange. You need to have an access to an account you send money from.

I figured I'd have to transfer from the client, but is the account token just the sending account? In my case, 16121687483446533972?

[seek4dream]

So unfortunately I have to sell off my Nxt. Is dgex the way to go? Also, when depositing to dgex, you are asked for your "ACCOUNT TOKEN", is that just my account number?

You'll probably have to wait up to 8-12 hours for a deposit after you send Nxt.
As for "ACCOUNT TOKEN", you have to send coins from the client, NOT from Bter or any other exchange. You need to have an access to an account you send money from.

.

I figured I'd have to transfer from the client, but is the account token just the sending account? In my case, 16121687483446533972?

you can find what token is in DGEX deposit page

[Kattywampus]

Team,

It's time to let the exchanges know it's time to add Nxt. Please do the following:


1. Visit the Google Doc for a list of exchanges and their respective email addresses

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuputZyRQ5-5dFY4RlBTdFJWWnhTRUp3SWdiMlBpb3c&usp=sharing#gid=0


2. Email each exchange

- Let them know why you think they should add Nxt (marketcap, features, community etc..)
- You could easily use the same email for each exchange


3. Record your results here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuputZyRQ5-5dFY4RlBTdFJWWnhTRUp3SWdiMlBpb3c&usp=sharing#gid=0


Don't wait for someone else to do the work, let's show the exchanges we're serious about Nxt.