NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[Damelon]

PM and spokesperson are clear, but I can´t really see how this academy is supposed to work?

Me either.  This is a question of succession management.  When a really big project changes hands from one group of people to another group of people, the group in control usually goes around and shows the incoming group all the ins-and-outs of what is going on.  This leads to a smooth transition.

What we have here is a group in control that deliberately is rejecting contact with the group it expects to take over the reigns, and isn't even going to leave them any documentation (whitepaper, code comments) to read on their own.  Maybe this is due to language barriers, maybe this is due to a true desire for anonymity, I don't know, but it is a huge huge huge burden to overcome.   And, it seems to me, a needless burden that shouldn't be there.

Most of all, there is a growing sense of frustration on both sides I think.  BCNext and CfB are always making statements that the community is not living up to expectations and its own potential.  The community just wants some goddamn basic clarity on a few key, fundamental points.  I shake my head in bewilderment and confusion about how such a situation can exist.

It will probably not end well.

If you have expectations that aren't being met, you look at the assumptions underlying that expectation.
BCNext may well have a kind of ideal audience (every creator/writer has), but that doesn't mean that ideal will work.

At the moment we have a clear shortage of knowledge. This is clear from statements, not from Average Joe, but from professionals in their respective field.

There is also a clear willingness to work. No one is looking for an easy handout. The request for knowledge is not made out of a need for "the easy way", but a genuine concern for Nxt.

If BCNext truly agrees with Dawkins, he should not sow the seeds for a "God" myth himself. Mystification for the sake of it will do that. Just give the people that cán work with it the code they need and they will. We have people that have PROVEN to be trustworthy already.

Then, if he wants, BCNext can truly be "out of the picture". So long as he is keeping the story of a "Third" and now "Fourth" revelation alive, he won't be.

I would sincerely like to see the community take over, because this is creating more confusion than there needs to be.

Edit: the situation now seems to be:

Community to BCNext cs: You first!
BCNext cs. to community: You first!

Clearly that is not a good state of affairs.

[jl777]

Has anyone seen this yet? If any of you are like me, the rest of bitcointalk pretty much gets ignored simply because this thread is a time drain.

I don't like seeing much about other cryptos here unless it's relevant to Nxt. XCP has been mentioned here more than a few times. It appears they had a major attack involving 150 BTC:

As many of you know, about a week ago, a hacker found a major security hole in the Counterparty protocol that enabled him to send XCP from anyone's address. He used this to send 35,000 XCP from the Poloniex wallet to himself, which he then deposited into his own Poloniex account. He then sold the XCP for 150 BTC and withdrew 115 BTC. Following that, he explained the security hole and offered to return the BTC. He has still not returned the BTC, but my correspondence with him is ongoing.

Users have asked to see the correspondence and the Counterparty developers have all given the OK on publishing it, so here it is: https://poloniex.com/correspondence.pdf

There was more to his message from today, which I have not included because it arrived after the developers gave the OK.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=490025.0

Yeah, I saw that 'cause I did a couple burns for XCP myself and had a tiny amount of XCP on Poloniex when the attack happened.  It's a shame, but really not unexpected for a new crypto.  There will be bugs in software.  There will be people anxious to exploit those bugs for personal gain.  We're all in new territory here in crypto-land, Bitcoin included.  Everything here is a gamble.

There's a reason one shouldn't invest more in crypto than he is prepared to lose.

Also, right after this c-cex.com was hacked for 300BTC. The hacker bought all the DRK boosting its price fivefold. Then withdrew the DRK, went to poloniex and sold it all, crashing the price 80%.

Crazy times.

[CIYAM]

Also, at 10 seconds blocktime, actual trading of cryptos on AE becomes MUCH safer. Just imagine you put an order in and the market changes radically. That is a LONG 60 seconds to the next block as you see your order go against you...

You are likely to end up with many more forks making those earlier confirmations less useful (meaning you will quite likely require 6x as many confirmations to be "secure" thus not actually be achieving anything).

[igmaca]

http://cryptosource.org/what-is-nxt-community/
read the last part of my nxtmyths 1st chapter

Q: Why was the initial funding cancelled suddenly with few people?

A: I wanted Nxt to be launched by the community, not by a single person. Success of Nxt is supposed to be achieved by work of a LOT of PEOPLE.


His answer is not convincing.

This is the same bullshit like "he wanted 21BTC to get invested so he lost his chance in the IPO".
If he wanted a lot of people to start Nxt with, he hadn´t stop the IPO so suddenly.


But that is history. Now we should focus on more important things, because that´s the future.

Symbolism is very important.  BCNext has a reason for doing everything.  Do not ignore what he is trying to convey.

3 JAN 2014 this is 1 03 2014 = 3 +0 +1 +1 +2 +4 = 11

born at 11.  Eleven is a master number .

According to Pythagorean school conscience  makes one complete cycle as it passes the 1, 2,  3,  4,  5,  6,  7,  8,  9 digits

each digit has special properties such as 9 is the digit that added another digit always gives the other digit 9 +1 = 10 = 1 +0 = 1
 8 +9 = 17 = 1 +7 = 8 is the digit that always yields for the other grow. Is the spiritualization of matter and 6 is the materialization of the spirit

in a fractal universe when it gets to 11 this is not reduced to 1 +1 = 2
11 is a master number . 1 + 1 does not make 2 is something else. can not be reduced to say that awareness has been raised to a higher level has started a superior cycle.

fact that Nxt born at 11 means that its mission is to raise awareness . promote a paradigm shift . is intended to help spend humanity to a higher level of consciousness.

individuals, entities , things, born under this number have a higher degree of responsibility to others .

"The one who knows not die like the one that do not knows"  

No real reason. It's very easy to get the source code by disassembling the binaries. I think he was just waiting for a bright cold day in April to do it

April 2014 = 04 2014 = 0+4+2+0+1+4 = 11  

Perhaps 11 04 2014 = 11+11=22  
Perhaps 29 04 2014 = 11+11=22  

22 is also a Master number,
but
which means?  

[pandaisftw]

Why did he want just 21 BTC?

Maybe coz he is crazy about symbolism?

I thought that might be the reason.   

Now, what does the number 21 symbolize?

2 * 21 = 42

You got it backwards:

42 (The answer) / 21 (to Bitcoin) = 2(nd gen cryptocurrency)

[Zahlen]

From the text by BCNext/cfb, it seems so to me. don't know about the math

We really need the math - so if we have any math guys in our community there is an opportunity for you to earn some NXT or BTC for helping out with this and some other analysis.

I'm not caught up with the thread (75+ more pages! Sweating bricks here), but I can do math! I have no rep, but I could provide complete and written proofs that other people can review (for math, you shouldn't rely on rep anyways, if a "proof" isn't independently verifiable, it ain't proof).

I'll need clear mathematical statements to prove or disprove. Or if you can describe a problem and its motivations clearly, I might be able to formalize a clear statement from it.

No guarantees of success for any particular statement. Real math, not merely computation, isn't a strictly definable process (you could say it's more of an art).

EDIT: Looks like mthcl is on it. He's specialized in stochastic processes, which is very relevant to the "safe against '90%' attack problem", and I'm not. I might be able to help out with other problems.

[jl777]

Also, at 10 seconds blocktime, actual trading of cryptos on AE becomes MUCH safer. Just imagine you put an order in and the market changes radically. That is a LONG 60 seconds to the next block as you see your order go against you...

You are likely to end up with many more forks making those earlier confirmations less useful (meaning you will quite likely require 6x as many confirmations to be "secure" thus not actually be achieving anything).

That is why I was asking. So, it is not that it is a bad thing to have faster block times, it is just that what I proposed doesnt work?

Do you see ANY way to be able to reduce the blocktime? 59 seconds? 58 seconds?

What causes the forks at faster block times? Please dont think I am an idiot, I am just ignorant. I only started with crypto last Thanksgiving so what is obvious to people in crypto for years, for me it is a new thing. I do have some skills, just need to calibrate them to this space.

James

[Come-from-Beyond]

No real reason. It's very easy to get the source code by disassembling the binaries. I think he was just waiting for a bright cold day in April to do it

April 2014 = 04 2014 = 0+4+2+0+1+4 = 11  

Perhaps 11 04 2014 = 11+11=22  

1st part published on 9th of Dec.
2nd part published on 10th of Feb (+2 month +1 day) / 21
Perhaps 3rd part will be published on 11th of April (+2 month +1 day).

Yes, looks like it's 11 04 2014

[CIYAM]

Do you see ANY way to be able to reduce the blocktime? 59 seconds? 58 seconds?

What you are working against is a thing called "network latency" - and the problem is that you would need to "own the physical network" to be able to make "super fast guarantees" which isn't going to happen unless we are somehow able to replace the world's physical infrastructure with something better.

Understand that when I "ping" ciyam.org from here in China it takes over 300ms on average but when I do it from the US it takes a fraction of that time.

There is no software that can improve the hardware infrastructure it sits upon (and countries like China make it all the more difficult by putting software layers above the hardware to purposely slow it down).

There are "no magic bullets" here apart from trying to have major hubs (as CfB mentioned) that end up doing most of the forging and have super fast internet connections. Even then you are going to have troubles with putting hubs in China or numerous other countries (weakening the network itself due to centralisation).

[rickyjames]

Since I'm not going to achieve psychic mindlock today with CfB and BCNext to get the information dump we all need, I'm gonna change the subject.  (Squirrel!!! : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSUXXzN26zg )

There is a new coin on coinmarketcap.com just below NXT in market cap and that is Auroracoin.  If you don't know about Auroracoin, you should take a minute and read some about it.  It is a litecoin clone that is about to become an official government currency for Iceland.  Without going into gory details, the banking system in Iceland has had huge problems over the past few years and the government is desperate to engineer a reboot.  Thus Auroracoin.  It has a 50% pre-mine that is being held in trust and will be given out to the people of Iceland in 25 days.  They are encouraging activity to get tools in the hands of Icelanders to allow their easy use of this new currency.  


http://www.auroracoin.org/

http://theconversation.com/free-cash-for-iceland-but-it-pays-to-keep-cool-about-auroracoin-23061

The 64,000 NXT question is - could NXT somehow get on this bandwagon and become part of the Auroracoin management system via AE?  If we can get EVERYBODY IN ICELAND (population 300,000) owning NXT as a part of helping to manage their new Auroracoins...

[xyzzyx]

AE, VS and AC.

- did you consider to rename VS -> AG (Agreement Gathering) ?

What for? Just to have the 1st letter "A"? What about Mixing Service then? U'll spend a lot of sleepless nights trying to find a good word that starts with "A" but is related to mixing...

Amalgamation Service.   

[Come-from-Beyond]

Btw, I've re-read "1984". It begins on the 4th of April 1984. 3rd of April is the last day of my contract (the next day is exactly +30 years). Dunno if it means anything.

[mcjavar]

Since I'm not going to achieve psychic mindlock today with CfB and BCNext to get the information dump we all need, I'm gonna change the subject.  (Squirrel!!! : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSUXXzN26zg )

There is a new coin on coinmarketcap.com just below NXT in market cap and that is Auroracoin.  If you don't know about Auroracoin, you should take a minute and read some about it.  It is a litecoin clone that is about to become an official government currency for Iceland.  Without going into gory details, the banking system in Iceland has had huge problems over the past few years and the government is desperate to engineer a reboot.  Thus Auroracoin.  It has a 50% pre-mine that is being held in trust and will be given out to the people of Iceland in 25 days.  They are encouraging activity to get tools in the hands of Icelanders to allow their easy use of this new currency.  


http://www.auroracoin.org/

http://theconversation.com/free-cash-for-iceland-but-it-pays-to-keep-cool-about-auroracoin-23061

The 64,000 NXT question is - could NXT somehow get on this bandwagon and become part of the Auroracoin management system via AE?  If we can get EVERYBODY IN ICELAND (population 300,000) owning NXT as a part of helping to manage their new Auroracoins...

How do you imagine this to work? Sorry, but I can´t see how Nxt comes in play.

[Zahlen]

Btw, I've re-read "1984". It begins on the 4th of April 1984. 3rd of April is the last day of my contract (the next day is exactly +30 years). Dunno if it means anything.

Was it you or BCNext who suggested the end date of your contract?

[jl777]

Do you see ANY way to be able to reduce the blocktime? 59 seconds? 58 seconds?

What you are working against is a thing called "network latency" - and the problem is that you would need to "own the physical network" to be able to make "super fast guarantees" which isn't going to happen unless we are somehow able to replace the world's physical infrastructure with something better.

Understand that when I "ping" ciyam.org from here in China it takes over 300ms on average but when I do it from the US it takes a fraction of that time.

There is no software that can improve the hardware infrastructure it sits upon (and countries like China make it all the more difficult by putting software layers above the hardware to purposely slow it down).

There are "no magic bullets" here apart from trying to have major hubs (as CfB mentioned) that end up doing most of the forging and have super fast internet connections. Even then you are going to have troubles with putting hubs in China or numerous other countries (weakening the network itself due to centralisation).

No surprises then. My assumption is that we are handling 60 second block time now without much problems and that is with no requirements placed on the nodes as far as capability goes. Is it your opinion that anything faster than 60 seconds is impossible?

What is the fastest blocktime you think we can get with performance controlled hallmarked servers?

James

P.S. Is the internet inside China also slow, or is it just going in and out of the Great fireWall of China that is slow?

[Come-from-Beyond]

Btw, I've re-read "1984". It begins on the 4th of April 1984. 3rd of April is the last day of my contract (the next day is exactly +30 years). Dunno if it means anything.

Was it you or BCNext who suggested the end date of your contract?

BCNext. I thought it was just +3 month since the official launch.

[nxtsky]

P.S. Is the internet inside China also slow, or is it just going in and out of the Great fireWall of China that is slow?

The internet. The Great fireWall would block the sites the government don't like.

[CIYAM]

What is the fastest blocktime you think we can get with performance controlled hallmarked servers?

That depends upon the network topology which isn't even known - basically you'd have to measure these things "in the wild" to even roughly work this out.

P.S. Is the internet inside China also slow, or is it just going in and out of the Great fireWall of China that is slow?

Our TV has WiFi and we can watch high quality movies here (many for free) so inside of China it is very fast (am only using 2M standard home connection).

That GCF is mostly automated now btw and does detect encrypted traffic (which is generally when it "slams on the brakes") and it gets "smarter" every year (most standard VPS services don't work here now).

[rickyjames]

http://www.auroracoin.org/

http://theconversation.com/free-cash-for-iceland-but-it-pays-to-keep-cool-about-auroracoin-23061

The 64,000 NXT question is - could NXT somehow get on this bandwagon and become part of the Auroracoin management system via AE?  If we can get EVERYBODY IN ICELAND (population 300,000) owning NXT as a part of helping to manage their new Auroracoins...

How do you imagine this to work? Sorry, but I can´t see how Nxt comes in play.

Um...NXT Asset Exchange?  Icelanders attach X Auroracoins to a single NXT colored coin and then make deals with them peer to peer amongst themselves?  Otherwise, on what exchange are they going to sell Auroracoins - Cryptsy, in Florida USA?

[Ludom]

No real reason. It's very easy to get the source code by disassembling the binaries. I think he was just waiting for a bright cold day in April to do it

April 2014 = 04 2014 = 0+4+2+0+1+4 = 11  

Perhaps 11 04 2014 = 11+11=22  

1st part published on 9th of Dec.
2nd part published on 10th of Feb (+2 month +1 day) / 21
Perhaps 3rd part will be published on 11th of April (+2 month +1 day).

Yes, looks like it's 11 04 2014

Cool, it's my birthday !

But I think, it's the 4th April like the 4th April 1984, it's the bright cold day in April.