NobleCoin[NOBL] - 8% PoS | 1Yr+ | MARKETPLACE | PAY | GIFT | CHARITIES/MERCHANTS

[Rofo]

How were they decreased? It was a 2.2ish billion original and 2.4ish billion new chain? That's an increase. I look closely, one shows me all the transactions as proof of burn, one does not.

The old chain outstanding coins figure of 2.2 billion in the old chain is with the burns subtracted.

Right. That part I was wrong on, apologies. The rest still stands.

[james6546]

Rofo, I don't understand, the other day you said you had invested too much time and effort into Noble to give up on it, but you sound today like you want nothing to do with it.

If you can find a quote where we have said we want control of Noble from you then please post it. The reason we have not actively taken control of anything is because (and I only speak for myself) we feel that Noble needs you. If you don't want to take control completely, could you come back at a diminished capacity and take on some smaller parts maybe?

It would be sad for you to abandon Noble completely, and I think that you are seeing hate where there is frustration and confusion. There is no hate here.

[eagleflies]

How were they decreased? It was a 2.2ish billion original and 2.4ish billion new chain? That's an increase. I look closely, one shows me all the transactions as proof of burn, one does not.

The old chain outstanding coins figure of 2.2 billion in the old chain is with the burns subtracted.

Right. That part I was wrong on, apologies. The rest still stands.

So you know understand where the 750 million NOBL went? It was basically burnt and there was no reason to include these coins on new block chain again.

[Rofo]

How were they decreased? It was a 2.2ish billion original and 2.4ish billion new chain? That's an increase. I look closely, one shows me all the transactions as proof of burn, one does not.

The old chain outstanding coins figure of 2.2 billion in the old chain is with the burns subtracted.

Right. That part I was wrong on, apologies. The rest still stands.

So you know understand where the 750 million NOBL went?

You're telling me that proof of burn on this new chain is no longer verifiable or in a burn address/historically reflected?

Edit: I'm accepting this and shouldn't have brought it up then. None of it is relevant anymore on this chain anyway since the burn is over. I do not mean to get into a philosophical argument over this. It's causing issues on my end (linking accounts, individuals, rewards, Nobility etc.) I will deal with on the old chain history. I would still advise burning the large premine.

[fairglu]

Updates done, be sure to do a Ctrl+F5 refresh on the burn pages.

I'm seeing 748mil in transactions transferred on the old blockchain that I am not seeing on the new one.

The new chain distributed the premine to addresses with balances, as the burn was zero'ed, it was not transfered, except for the 1.2 M transaction which was not zero'ed, and thus ended up in the script and was burned on the new chain as well.

That is important. Is there somewhere I can see a list of transactions I can verify instead then?

Old chain transactions are in the old chain explorer, in the new explorer, there will be only premine distribution, which distributed balances at the time of the snapshot.

My focus is on NOXT and business side of things, which will continue to provide services for NOBL. I can not afford to work with anonymous parties at this point in time that I do not know and that I have to answer and be responsible/accountable for.

Understandable. I for one am quite public (name in clear in whois, micro-company info available on demand with EU VAT number and such, which incidentally means a fair share of the funding I get goes to tax, but hey).

Happy to know you will still be around, I'm thinking things will probably have to get a bit worse in cryptos (in terms of law and regulations) before they'll get better, so hang on!

[eagleflies]

How were they decreased? It was a 2.2ish billion original and 2.4ish billion new chain? That's an increase. I look closely, one shows me all the transactions as proof of burn, one does not.

The old chain outstanding coins figure of 2.2 billion in the old chain is with the burns subtracted.

Right. That part I was wrong on, apologies. The rest still stands.

So you know understand where the 750 million NOBL went?

You're telling me that proof of burn on this new chain is no longer verifiable or in a burn address/historically reflected?

My understanding about old block explorer is this:
- all transactions on burn address are correct
- balance was manually lowered since this money was not spendable/burnt
- total balance is sum of all balances at all addresses so if you wanted to include amount burnt you need to add it to total balance. I remember when total balance showed by block explorer went temporarily below 2 bln as effect of burning process.

New blockchain at time of switch reflected all balances (according to block explorer) on old blockchain. And since burn address contained 1.2 mil coins exactly same amount was distributed to this address.

[fairglu]

You're telling me that proof of burn on this new chain is no longer verifiable or in a burn address/historically reflected?

Even if the premine had distributed the old burns, it could not have served as proof, since it would not have come from the same origin address, and it could not have come from the same origin address without having the private keys to those :/

AFAIK the only way to have the proofs conserved would have been a blockchain hard fork (switching PoS at a certain height but conserving all the previous blockchain data).

[eagleflies]

How were they decreased? It was a 2.2ish billion original and 2.4ish billion new chain? That's an increase. I look closely, one shows me all the transactions as proof of burn, one does not.

The old chain outstanding coins figure of 2.2 billion in the old chain is with the burns subtracted.

Right. That part I was wrong on, apologies. The rest still stands.

So you know understand where the 750 million NOBL went?

You're telling me that proof of burn on this new chain is no longer verifiable or in a burn address/historically reflected?

Edit: I'm accepting this and shouldn't have brought it up then. None of it is relevant anymore on this chain anyway since the burn is over. I do not mean to get into a philosophical argument over this. It's causing issues on my end (linking accounts, individuals, rewards, Nobility etc.) I will deal with on the old chain history. I would still advise burning the large premine.

Good to hear balance of burn address is explained now.

Regarding latest premine - as I said today it would be burnt within 7 days.

[eagleflies]

I was under the impression you are the dev. I had a mutiny on my hands almost daily and stepped back to let this new direction be handed over, one desired by yourself and others. I can accept that my direction and 'leadership' was no longer wanted, but I do not have the time nor care to spend a second year working for this in an extremely toxic environment (crypto in general as well as general community). Of course people have a right to know what my plans are, I made them public for 12 months and majority disapproved/disagreed. That is no hard feelings on my end, I gave it 100%, now take responsibility for your own plans then.

We spoke about this one week ago (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=402667.msg10622128#msg10622128). This is not a take-over and this is not my coin but this coin was started by you and what people loved was your vision of coupling crypto currency with business side. I have explained my role as I see it - helping with technical side.

I do not wish to get into an argument over this again. I am stating it how it is. I have not prevented or 'sabotaged' anything as often stated. The offer for the site, FB, Twitter and ANN responsibility still stands - noone has taken me up on them. I am more than happy to hand over in good faith to those pushing the new direction.

My focus is on NOXT and business side of things, which will continue to provide services for NOBL. I can not afford to work with anonymous parties at this point in time that I do not know and that I have to answer and be responsible/accountable for.

I never said you were sabotaging. And you never asked about sharing my personal details with yourself. However at this point in time I will probably just wait few months to see what develops around NOXT/NOBLE and decide if I am still part of the picture.

- What about SSL cert? This is max 30 mins job for someone who knows what to do. Cost is around $10

It is active - and currently looks fine for me. Perhaps a cache clearing is required on your end? The dates of the certificate can be seen for early March.

https://www.sslshopper.com/ssl-checker.html#hostname=https://www.noblemovement.com

Cool. Thanks. You have also updated few sections on our website adding link to cryptsy etc. Thank you!

- FB/twitter accounts - are you going to actively promote this coins or should this be handed over to someone from community

I've answered this multiple times. Including publicly in this thread. I was happy to hand over the Twitter/FB accounts as wanted to someone voted.

Thanks for clarification. I think we should start looking for someone interested within the community to work on this. Anyone willing to take care of marketing for Noble?

- if you really want to quit you need to update community about status of original premine. AFAIK there is at least 30 mil coins remaining. And this should be burnt if you do not want to get involved anymore

This premine is gone. This stands. As well as all my original numbers and expenses and addresses of the original premine. I don't need to prove anything else to this community if after 12 months noone is satisfied.

The document does not discuss much about Noble premine. It focuses on $$ and BTC. I remember there was list of premine addresses and you were explaining how funds from premine were spent. Possibly a good idea to link these from this document?

My suggestion is: please stay with Noble and take role of leader who's main responsibility is working on business side. If you state something like that I am convinced we will be able to gather team of people working for Noble. We would need someone to take care of website, marketing (FB/twitter/promotional campaigns) etc. Myself I am willing to help with Noblecoin's code.

My prime responsibilities are still the services.
You are free to vote in a new website. The www.noblemovement.com will have the same areas dedicated to the coin, once the new landing page is complete. I am happy to have someone have a layout and info. they access and update there, exactly as I was fine to do with the ANN (which also still noone has taken me up on). Or you are free to decide on your own.

Anyone willing to take care of website development?

[adam1230]

Do we have any update on Cryptsy wallet switch? It's still under construction

[james6546]

Do we have any update on Cryptsy wallet switch? It's still under construction

I asked them, they know nothing!

[ctenc001]

I was under the impression you are the dev. I had a mutiny on my hands almost daily and stepped back to let this new direction be handed over, one desired by yourself and others. I can accept that my direction and 'leadership' was no longer wanted, but I do not have the time nor care to spend a second year working for this in an extremely toxic environment (crypto in general as well as general community). Of course people have a right to know what my plans are, I made them public for 12 months and majority disapproved/disagreed. That is no hard feelings on my end, I gave it 100%, now take responsibility for your own plans then.

We spoke about this one week ago (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=402667.msg10622128#msg10622128). This is not a take-over and this is not my coin but this coin was started by you and what people loved was your vision of coupling crypto currency with business side. I have explained my role as I see it - helping with technical side.

I do not wish to get into an argument over this again. I am stating it how it is. I have not prevented or 'sabotaged' anything as often stated. The offer for the site, FB, Twitter and ANN responsibility still stands - noone has taken me up on them. I am more than happy to hand over in good faith to those pushing the new direction.

My focus is on NOXT and business side of things, which will continue to provide services for NOBL. I can not afford to work with anonymous parties at this point in time that I do not know and that I have to answer and be responsible/accountable for.

I never said you were sabotaging. And you never asked about sharing my personal details with yourself. However at this point in time I will probably just wait few months to see what develops around NOXT/NOBLE and decide if I am still part of the picture.

- What about SSL cert? This is max 30 mins job for someone who knows what to do. Cost is around $10

It is active - and currently looks fine for me. Perhaps a cache clearing is required on your end? The dates of the certificate can be seen for early March.

https://www.sslshopper.com/ssl-checker.html#hostname=https://www.noblemovement.com

Cool. Thanks. You have also updated few sections on our website adding link to cryptsy etc. Thank you!

- FB/twitter accounts - are you going to actively promote this coins or should this be handed over to someone from community

I've answered this multiple times. Including publicly in this thread. I was happy to hand over the Twitter/FB accounts as wanted to someone voted.

Thanks for clarification. I think we should start looking for someone interested within the community to work on this. Anyone willing to take care of marketing for Noble?

- if you really want to quit you need to update community about status of original premine. AFAIK there is at least 30 mil coins remaining. And this should be burnt if you do not want to get involved anymore

This premine is gone. This stands. As well as all my original numbers and expenses and addresses of the original premine. I don't need to prove anything else to this community if after 12 months noone is satisfied.

The document does not discuss much about Noble premine. It focuses on $$ and BTC. I remember there was list of premine addresses and you were explaining how funds from premine were spent. Possibly a good idea to link these from this document?

My suggestion is: please stay with Noble and take role of leader who's main responsibility is working on business side. If you state something like that I am convinced we will be able to gather team of people working for Noble. We would need someone to take care of website, marketing (FB/twitter/promotional campaigns) etc. Myself I am willing to help with Noblecoin's code.

My prime responsibilities are still the services.
You are free to vote in a new website. The www.noblemovement.com will have the same areas dedicated to the coin, once the new landing page is complete. I am happy to have someone have a layout and info. they access and update there, exactly as I was fine to do with the ANN (which also still noone has taken me up on). Or you are free to decide on your own.

Anyone willing to take care of website development?

To be clear, as we asking if someone will build and host a new website for NOBL? Or if someone will just identify the broken links, and outdated text so that Rofo can change it? I assume the latter since I doubt he's give up control of noblemovement since its also the homepage for NOXT.

[Rofo]

This is not a take-over and this is not my coin but this coin was started by you and what people loved was your vision of coupling crypto currency with business side. I have explained my role as I see it - helping with technical side.

That was not my vision for NOBL. Read everything I've posted about price, supply, using rather than trading, anti-pump and dump, anti-manipulation, patience, long-term, distribution, security, experimental code, hard forks, sanctity of the chain, charity, use as currency, and a dozen other things.

This is a great start if you want to understand my original 'vision', although I understandably doubt anyone has read it:
https://www.noblemovement.com/5996-2/.

No matter how you word it I will always consider a destruction of original chain, takeover of specs, new personal premine in your hands, a checkpoint server out of my control (nor would I want to control it - those are bombs waiting to explode), among other things that go against my 'vision' as a takeover of NOBLs direction by and voted upon/demanded by the community. And a removal of my 'leadership'. This is not 'my' coin, this is a coin chosen as voted upon by a community.

I'm not trying to cause a conflict here, I'm actually relieved, but it has honestly boggled my mind all year why very few have seen and understood this side rather than continue to ask I work for them.

If yourself and other people simply cannot or refuse to see how this has completely contradicted my 'vision' for NOBL I'm not sure what to say. I argued and defended for it until I was over trying to fight the tide. I'm working on Noble services and businesses now. NOBL as it stands is still getting plenty of support from me. But my role has changed dramatically. It really is that simple. (Read that a second time - because I'm positive many will woefully read this as I'm leaving). I've really been at a loss as to what to say to anyone who has expected anything but.

[eagleflies]

This is not a take-over and this is not my coin but this coin was started by you and what people loved was your vision of coupling crypto currency with business side. I have explained my role as I see it - helping with technical side.

That was not my vision for NOBL. Read everything I've posted about price, supply, using rather than trading, anti-pump and dump, anti-manipulation, patience, long-term, distribution, security, experimental code, hard forks, sanctity of the chain, charity, use as currency, and a dozen other things.

This is a great start if you want to understand my original 'vision', although I understandably doubt anyone has read it:
https://www.noblemovement.com/5996-2/.

No matter how you word it I will always consider a destruction of original chain, takeover of specs, new personal premine in your hands, a checkpoint server out of my control (nor would I want to control it - those are bombs waiting to explode), among other things that go against my 'vision' as a takeover of NOBLs direction by and voted upon/demanded by the community. And a removal of my 'leadership'. This is not 'my' coin, this is a coin chosen as voted upon by a community.

I'm not trying to cause a conflict here, I'm actually relieved, but it has honestly boggled my mind all year why very few have seen and understood this side rather than continue to ask I work for them.

If yourself and other people simply cannot or refuse to see how this has completely contradicted my 'vision' for NOBL I'm not sure what to say. I argued and defended for it until I was over trying to fight the tide. I'm working on Noble services and businesses now. NOBL as it stands is still getting plenty of support from me. But my role has changed dramatically. It really is that simple. (Read that a second time - because I'm positive many will woefully read this as I'm leaving). I've really been at a loss as to what to say to anyone who has expected anything but.

I do not get it - you were the person who negotiated with several external developers to deliver PoS. And you wanted to pay for it. Now we delivered PoS for Noble without any payment and you claim this is the reason to call it 'takeover'?

Checkpoint server was added after you argued every PoS coin should have it. And yes, I am happy to hand it over.

Premine will be burnt within 7 days.

The only other argument is destruction of original chain. However this is first time you mentioned it. Unless I missed something?

I have even asked just before the switch if we had green light from you to proceed and it was given. The reason I did it was to avoid any kind of schism. Now you claim the switch means your leadership was removed? This is manipulation.

What I am trying to say is: you have every right to change the idea what you want to do. However I object the way you are trying to use community and myself to say 'they took over my coin', 'I was over trying to fight the tide' etc. This is simply not fair. Facts are different.

------------

Anyway the reason I am saying all this is I do not believe in community takeovers. I did whatever I could to prevent takeover from happening and from my point of view this is still your coin. My role has been focused on technical part and I do not have plans to suddenly become the leader.

[Rofo]

I do not get it - you were the person who negotiated with several external developers to deliver PoS. And you wanted to pay for it. Now we delivered PoS for Noble without any payment and you claim this is the reason to call it 'takeover'?

I negotiated a hard fork (or multiple) with scrypt of the most proven PoS code PPC. That is hard, expensive and seemingly impossible but doable. The community had zero desire to wait (years if necessary). What we have now is completely different and chosen by the community.

I also do not appreciate people acting as if I wanted PoS. This thread is 6 months of me arguing against changing specifications. Then 3 months fighting against BC/PoS BS, slowly conceding the entire year to community demands because of price. Everything I have been doing for the last 6 months has been for the community at their request for their vision. My own vision for Noble has been long completely refused and rebuked. I am exhausted. I don't know why people expect any more of me. To act otherwise is to completely ignore everything I've fought for since Jan. 7, 2014 (my 'vision').

Checkpoint server was added after you argued every PoS coin should have it. And yes, I am happy to hand it over.

Yes I exactly argued that. I do not want to be in control of it, however, as I have stated. It is a ticking time bomb.

Premine will be burnt within 7 days.

Why not now? Why not on the day of the switch? Why exist at all? What is it necessary for? It's hung over everyones head the entire time with half expecting it to dump the second price rises. You do realize seized control over distribution, a new premine, and statements like that by default make you a leader of this coin now? These are the types of things I have no desire to claim leadership or responsibility for.

The only other argument is destruction of original chain. However this is first time you mentioned it. Unless I missed something?

Missed every argument over hard forking and taking time to preserve the blockchain? It is irrelevant to the majority of the community, but another core tenant of my 'vision', despite conceding to everything else.

I have even asked just before the switch if we had green light from you to proceed and it was given. The reason I did it was to avoid any kind of schism. Now you claim the switch means your leadership was removed? This is manipulation.

The switch was green lit because it was the communities voted demand. Because it is what they wanted. I argued and voted against it until I was spent. There have been schisms growing all year because my 'vision' conflicts with what everyone wants. I stepped aside to let you do with the coin what you/community wanted. This is all extremely public in this thread.

If I considered myself a leader I would have 'commanded' (for lack of a better word) my original specifications and plans for distribution/mining/Scrypt until I was the only one left using NobleCoin. I also tried that for a while until I realized how wrong it was. That would have been eight years of Scrypt mining (with MM thrown in the future for greater security) at this current rate. That was my 'vision'. There is zero support for that. It is wrong to expect someone to be a leader when convenient only.

I was and am a representative, or a founder, or someone that speaks about crypto. or promotes NobleCoin. I am not taking leadership or ownership of the current specifications that the community has demanded. I did not choose or vote for them. I do not trust them, the switch itself or the sleuth of new shills in the thread. I'm not being responsible for them and it is insulting to expect me to be. It's that simple.

What I am trying to say is: you have every right to change the idea what you want to do. However I object the way you are trying to use community and myself to say 'they took over my coin', 'I was over trying to fight the tide' etc. This is simply not fair. Facts are different.

The facts are not different. I am happy to concede to your objection and say we do not nor will ever see eye to eye. This is not constructive in the slightest. I do not wish to do this all day with a community or yourself that I have exhausted a years worth of energy and money on already. It is not healthy for any party involved.

Despite my best wishes and work over 12 months the energy has turned extremely negative for all parties. I am happy to take my right to change my idea on what I want to do and leave it at that.

I have not prevented or held back any handover of any element except the website, which will be divided into multiple Noble sections and someone is free to control the coin section or pass me info. to keep up to date. All the services and educational stuff I am working on will remain so for Noble - this is not me 'quitting' NOBL.

Anyway the reason I am saying all this is I do not believe in community takeovers. I did whatever I could to prevent takeover from happening and from my point of view this is still your coin. My role has been focused on technical part and I do not have plans to suddenly become the leader.

That's your choice.

[pikuchato]

RIP logic.

[kultus]

Am I the only one who feels Eagleflies has taken over from Rofo ? as someone who has been here since day 1, I'll back rofo in saying he never wanted POS, at all in anyway ... it was the community who asked for it, now that being said, that was a POS derived from diamond coin if I am not mistaken and now we have some pos II or some such shit, we have 2 block chains a shit load of coins floating around without claim, a premium that should have been burn days ago waiting to be dumped .... you wonder why POS had no affect on price ... hell it should have soared given the time it has taken and Rofo's involvement, he has earnt himself quite the name ... All the above would never have happened if Rofo was incontrol which leads me to believe he has not been for some time, as I said in IRC, my faith in Noble has dropped, I once thought of it as a litecoin to Bit coin ... how well it was going to do based on honesty and the services in charity etc .... thats all gone now and we are left with so many questions, I am the Joe Bloke Rofo speaks of .... WTF is happening with all these extra coins, why do we still have 2 blockchains both with coins in the, I would have thought by moving coins from 1 block chain to the other would have removed them from the old one.... but no now we have 2 ... can you re-import your coins at a later date and sell twice, I don't' know these things,


the transparency is gone ... and the bullsihit is rampered ...

[pikuchato]

Am I the only one who feels Eagleflies has taken over from Rofo ? as someone who has been here since day 1, I'll back rofo in saying he never wanted POS, at all in anyway ... it was the community who asked for it, now that being said, that was a POS derived from diamond coin if I am not mistaken and now we have some pos II or some such shit, we have 2 block chains a shit load of coins floating around without claim, a premium that should have been burn days ago waiting to be dumped .... you wonder why POS had no affect on price ... hell it should have soared given the time it has taken and Rofo's involvement, he has earnt himself quite the name ... All the above would never have happened if Rofo was incontrol which leads me to believe he has not been for some time, as I said in IRC, my faith in Noble has dropped, I once thought of it as a litecoin to Bit coin ... how well it was going to do based on honesty and the services in charity etc .... thats all gone now and we are left with so many questions, I am the Joe Bloke Rofo speaks of .... WTF is happening with all these extra coins, why do we still have 2 blockchains both with coins in the, I would have thought by moving coins from 1 block chain to the other would have removed them from the old one.... but no now we have 2 ... can you re-import your coins at a later date and sell twice, I don't' know these things,


the transparency is gone ... and the bullsihit is rampered ...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=402667.msg10109325#msg10109325
"I'm sorry, and I hope 2015 is a better year for NOBL and crypto. Please take a round of votes or determine a group better able to work on NOBL moving forward. I just am unable to continue working as I have been. To be frank I'm completely broken, and I sarcastically look forward to the 'REKT' tweets. I just don't have the passion for crypto any longer, and I know there are people out there who can take this much further now."

End of story.

EDIT: Rofo was offered few times (including today) to do whatever he wants with noble and everyone else will step back, I didn't see him accept any portion of this offer so just move on and cut the drama.

[Rofo]

You do realise that stepping down came after 6 months of detailing and delivering and then 4 months of fighting for my 'vision'.

Not sure what else you expected. My 'leadership' was not approved of daily. I stepped aside done with trying, to let you vote on what you wanted instead while remaining silent. Would you prefer I remained 'leader' and made you all do what I wanted, keep extremely unpopular specifications and a way of doing things?

I'm done trying to explain myself.

[pikuchato]

You do realise that stepping down came after 6 months of detailing and delivering and then 4 months of fighting for my 'vision'.

Not sure what else you expected. My 'leadership' was not approved of daily. I stepped aside done with trying, to let you vote on what you wanted instead while remaining silent. Would you prefer I remained 'leader' and made you all do what I wanted, keep extremely unpopular specifications and a way of doing things?

I'm done trying to explain myself.

No, I preferred you remain the leader and keep listening to us as always, You don't have to step back just because you followed your investors and did something against your will.

And guess what? your leadership is still approved, even after all the shit and disrespect we got from you in the past months most of us know what you capable of.
All you have to do is sort your shit out and move forward, no questions about the past will be asked (noble and noxt).