[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[will7am]

Hello Everyone,

Just a small update. I found a really neat trick that effectively turns our currency into a decentralized incubator. I've been consumed with working on it. So far I've written about 5000 lines in and I'm finallly in the process of getting it to compile. While I've been doing this, I've also been documenting the code and our new process in a governance wiki. I'll publish all of this in approximately 14 days.  

Evan, I'm afraid you have no clue as to how clueless we all are.  What the heck is that going to be?  Please, more!!!!

It's an automated version of this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_incubator. Instead it's built with it's primary goal of expanding and cultivating our ecosystem using a decentralized autonomous engine which powers the decision making process.  It's the budget system on steroids.

This sounds super interesting, looks like you've done it again Evan.

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[pille]

why did the MN annual return rate suddenly jump from 12% to 14%?

edit: as per http://dash-news.de/

It seems there are some problems with the source where I get the masternodecount from: https://dash-stats.firebaseio.com/stats.json?orderBy=%22timestamp%22&limitToLast=1

Yesterday it were down to 2xxx masternodes and up to 3x% sometimes...

Edit: they are working on it. please excuse the wired numbers while the maintenance.

Edit2: We are back to normal

[Gi01]

ASIC Miners coming to Dash
 
http://allcoinsnews.com/2016/04/06/asic-miners-coming-to-dash-coin/

Not a great fan of this

The centralization was/is a total issue on BTC, something that might kill the future of the first crypto.

Dash is way more distributed. I don't like the idea of someone generating an insane hash rate.

Will this impact on total number of Dash minted?

[dEBRUYNE]

ASIC Miners coming to Dash
 
http://allcoinsnews.com/2016/04/06/asic-miners-coming-to-dash-coin/

Not a great fan of this

The centralization was/is a total issue on BTC, something that might kill the future of the first crypto.

Dash is way more distributed. I don't like the idea of someone generating an insane hash rate.

Will this impact on total number of Dash minted?

A temporary spike in hashrate could result in blocks being pushed out faster and thus temporarily the emission will be somewhat higher. However, on average it shouldn't affect the emission.

[toknormal]

Andreas Antonopolis says that centralisation due to ASICS is at an end. It peaked and is now on the wane towards decentralisation from here on in.

(I saw him say it with my own eyes and heard him with my own ears    )

Here he is . Unfortunately, this particular video fails a few moments into his answer and leaves a huge 20 minute silence gap till it recommences.

Maybe Aleix will get a more complete version up soon.

[TanteStefana2]

ASIC Miners coming to Dash
 
http://allcoinsnews.com/2016/04/06/asic-miners-coming-to-dash-coin/

Not a great fan of this

The centralization was/is a total issue on BTC, something that might kill the future of the first crypto.

Dash is way more distributed. I don't like the idea of someone generating an insane hash rate.

Will this impact on total number of Dash minted?

There are a couple of things at work in Dash with the difference.  First, if the hash rate suddenly increases, DGW will quickly adjust, even if they suddenly leave, and the hash rate drops, it only takes a few hours to get through tops, not 2 weeks like Bitcoin.  Second, the hash rate determines the payout.  We've been above the hash rate that allows us to be paid a little more than minimum almost since the beginning.  Sometimes we went below it and got a better payout, but it hasn't done that in a long time.  So even so ASICs will raise the hash rate, it won't drop the payout below minimum, which we've been at.

Evan has seen all this coming and even so I don't know what incentives he's planning that will keep centralization from happening, I'll bet he did find a solution.

[ddink7]

ASIC Miners coming to Dash
 
http://allcoinsnews.com/2016/04/06/asic-miners-coming-to-dash-coin/

Not a great fan of this

The centralization was/is a total issue on BTC, something that might kill the future of the first crypto.

Dash is way more distributed. I don't like the idea of someone generating an insane hash rate.

Will this impact on total number of Dash minted?

I was the author of (most of) that article, and I'm sure Evan won't mind me sharing his full comments, from which I extracted the relevant quotes:

Me: "Could I get a quote from you for the article, something about how the dev team views the development of ASICs, etc.? If it is your point of view that ASICs, subject to the decentralization that you are working on, are a good thing for Dash, it would be a great contrast to Charlie Lee's comment two years ago that 'Well, we could change our algo but it'd be really hard to do, so why bother?'"

Evan: "When creating Dash originally, we wanted to create an atmosphere of innovation in the mining arena over the course of many years. This includes the first CPU miners, then GPU miners, FPGAs then even ASICs. We believe X11 did exactly what it had intended to do in this respect. As far as our opinion of ASICs overall, we believe there is no better possible technology for our network to be secured by. One thing that is not well understood in the space is the masternode network's quorum system relies heavily on the entropy generated from proof-of-work, this makes them an ideal source of security. The only concern with ASICs is due to the centralization risk that has occurred in Bitcoin and Litecoin.

Me: "There have been rumors that the dev team has an idea to combat the centralization risk you speak of. Do you care to elaborate?"

Evan: "The centralization risk comes from a problem with the alignment of incentives. These issues boil down to just a few problems in proof-of-work. Issues such as privately mining with bleeding-edge hardware before it's publicly accessible, mining at extremely low/no electrical cost and utilizing free labor. When combined these three issues become a powerful efficiency margin between you and your competitors, creating only a few places in the world that can compete on an even playing field. We have a plan to re-align these incentives under a new proof-of-work model which incorporates X11 and ASICs."

So Evan has a plan that will eliminate the centralization risk while retaining the network security that ASICs provide. Before anybody asks, I have no idea what he's planning.

[Taylor05]

why did the MN annual return rate suddenly jump from 12% to 14%?

edit: as per http://dash-news.de/

Recent masternode count reduction

Hashrate has also been dropping, which has caused some larger rewards to generate. Ironically, when ASICs were announced, it appears that GPU miners must have left in droves despite the higher price.

With a higher price and lower hashrate, you'd think GPU miners would stick with it. It's one of those situations where perception is driving miner behavior instead of facts.

[spatula]

Hashrate has also been dropping, which has caused some larger rewards to generate. Ironically, when ASICs were announced, it appears that GPU miners must have left in droves despite the higher price.

With a higher price and lower hashrate, you'd think GPU miners would stick with it. It's one of those situations where perception is driving miner behavior instead of facts.

Also, ETH has been pretty profitable to mine with GPU, and I would imagine a log of GPU miners switched for that reason as well

[ddink7]

Hashrate has also been dropping, which has caused some larger rewards to generate. Ironically, when ASICs were announced, it appears that GPU miners must have left in droves despite the higher price.

With a higher price and lower hashrate, you'd think GPU miners would stick with it. It's one of those situations where perception is driving miner behavior instead of facts.

Also, ETH has been pretty profitable to mine with GPU, and I would imagine a log of GPU miners switched for that reason as well

The last round of superblocks (yesterday) also appear to have knocked some miners/pools offline.

[Lebubar]

ASIC Miners coming to Dash
 
http://allcoinsnews.com/2016/04/06/asic-miners-coming-to-dash-coin/

Not a great fan of this

The centralization was/is a total issue on BTC, something that might kill the future of the first crypto.

Dash is way more distributed. I don't like the idea of someone generating an insane hash rate.

Will this impact on total number of Dash minted?

Another very important point to make about the Satoshi Roundtable was the very large issue with mining centralization in the Bitcoin space. When Satoshi originally invented Bitcoin, he did not anticipate the excessive mining centralization that has become a dominant force in the Bitcoin space. Due to this, we now have a small group of people that literally control the protocol consensus and their short term interests may be in conflict with the long term interests of other stakeholders, industry, users, etc. We definitely do not want our ecosystem to follow the same failed course and we definitely would have under the pooled ASIC mining paradigm. This is mainly because there are differences in efficiency that a miner can gain depending on where they live, which can give a huge advantage when their higher investment returns are compounded. Efficiencies such as cheaper labor, cheap or free electricity and even withholding newer advanced ASICs for their own mining operations, then selling them after they become less effective. After many iterations of these phenomenon in BTC we have come to a situation where the ones who have access to these advantages effectively control Bitcoin.

After hours of discussions, we believe we have found the solution to the unfair mining advantages that produce centralization around certain jurisdictions that control the production of ASICS. We will be releasing much more information about this soon, but are feverishly working on this project for v12.1. We’re going to be releasing much more information about this in the coming weeks; it’s going to be a giant advantage for the Dash project.

[kointrend]

Andreas Antonopolis says that centralisation due to ASICS is at an end. It peaked and is now on the wane towards decentralisation from here on in.

(I saw him say it with my own eyes and heard him with my own ears    )

Here he is . Unfortunately, this particular video fails a few moments into his answer and leaves a huge 20 minute silence gap till it recommences.

Maybe Aleix will get a more complete version up soon.

Hi toknormal,
In fact he didn't seem worried about it...describing that like some kind of cyclic event due at technological developments, and the time will fix it.
At the same time, I liked when he told the worries about "chinees power" could be due just at some kind of racism, because if this power were in Finland (maybe), people would not be so worried about it.

[UdjinM6]

Andreas Antonopolis says that centralisation due to ASICS is at an end. It peaked and is now on the wane towards decentralisation from here on in.

(I saw him say it with my own eyes and heard him with my own ears    )

Here he is . Unfortunately, this particular video fails a few moments into his answer and leaves a huge 20 minute silence gap till it recommences.

Maybe Aleix will get a more complete version up soon.

Hi toknormal,
In fact he didn't seem worried about it...describing that like some kind of cyclic event due at technological developments, and the time will fix it.
At the same time, I liked when he told the worries about "chinees power" could be due just at some kind of racism, because if this power were in Finland (maybe), people would not be so worried about it.

https://youtu.be/bFOFqNKKns0?t=51m13s

[TanteStefana2]

I was the author of (most of) that article, and I'm sure Evan won't mind me sharing his full comments, from which I extracted the relevant quotes:

Me: "Could I get a quote from you for the article, something about how the dev team views the development of ASICs, etc.? If it is your point of view that ASICs, subject to the decentralization that you are working on, are a good thing for Dash, it would be a great contrast to Charlie Lee's comment two years ago that 'Well, we could change our algo but it'd be really hard to do, so why bother?'"

Evan: "When creating Dash originally, we wanted to create an atmosphere of innovation in the mining arena over the course of many years. This includes the first CPU miners, then GPU miners, FPGAs then even ASICs. We believe X11 did exactly what it had intended to do in this respect. As far as our opinion of ASICs overall, we believe there is no better possible technology for our network to be secured by. One thing that is not well understood in the space is the masternode network's quorum system relies heavily on the entropy generated from proof-of-work, this makes them an ideal source of security. The only concern with ASICs is due to the centralization risk that has occurred in Bitcoin and Litecoin.

Me: "There have been rumors that the dev team has an idea to combat the centralization risk you speak of. Do you care to elaborate?"

Evan: "The centralization risk comes from a problem with the alignment of incentives. These issues boil down to just a few problems in proof-of-work. Issues such as privately mining with bleeding-edge hardware before it's publicly accessible, mining at extremely low/no electrical cost and utilizing free labor. When combined these three issues become a powerful efficiency margin between you and your competitors, creating only a few places in the world that can compete on an even playing field. We have a plan to re-align these incentives under a new proof-of-work model which incorporates X11 and ASICs."

So Evan has a plan that will eliminate the centralization risk while retaining the network security that ASICs provide. Before anybody asks, I have no idea what he's planning.

OK, so when you think of these issues:
1.  privately mining with bleeding-edge hardware before it's publicly accessible
2.  mining at extremely low/no electrical cost and utilizing free labor.

And the fact that we know this is the issue he has primarily been working on since coming back from the Satoshi Roundtable (a trip that inspired whatever it is he is doing) and the fact he said he's been finishing up ~ 5000 lines of code and is compiling... and he says he found a "neat way" to create a decentralized (business?) incubator... leads me to think that the budgeting system may incentivize businesses in the mining field and ASIC manufacturing field?  But the following quote:

"When combined these three issues become a powerful efficiency margin between you and your competitors, creating only a few places in the world that can compete on an even playing field. We have a plan to re-align these incentives under a new proof-of-work model which incorporates X11 and ASICs."

leaves it so up in the air, I still can't see the whole picture.

Dagnabbit, what in the world could this solution be?

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

Evan's on another level... I swear you could lock that man in a room for a month and he would find the cure for cancer.

[TanteStefana2]

Evan's on another level... I swear you could lock that man in a room for a month and he would find the cure for cancer.

I completely agree.  Unfortunately, he now is locked away most of the time and doesn't have the time to share with us anymore it seems    So it's always special when he pops in to say something

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

Coin Wars welcomes Dash Nation through CoinPayments.net:

https://dashtalk.org/threads/coin-wars-the-crypto-currency-web-game-now-accepts-dash.8618/

#DashNation

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

I was the author of (most of) that article, and I'm sure Evan won't mind me sharing his full comments, from which I extracted the relevant quotes:

Me: "Could I get a quote from you for the article, something about how the dev team views the development of ASICs, etc.? If it is your point of view that ASICs, subject to the decentralization that you are working on, are a good thing for Dash, it would be a great contrast to Charlie Lee's comment two years ago that 'Well, we could change our algo but it'd be really hard to do, so why bother?'"

Evan: "When creating Dash originally, we wanted to create an atmosphere of innovation in the mining arena over the course of many years. This includes the first CPU miners, then GPU miners, FPGAs then even ASICs. We believe X11 did exactly what it had intended to do in this respect. As far as our opinion of ASICs overall, we believe there is no better possible technology for our network to be secured by. One thing that is not well understood in the space is the masternode network's quorum system relies heavily on the entropy generated from proof-of-work, this makes them an ideal source of security. The only concern with ASICs is due to the centralization risk that has occurred in Bitcoin and Litecoin.

Me: "There have been rumors that the dev team has an idea to combat the centralization risk you speak of. Do you care to elaborate?"

Evan: "The centralization risk comes from a problem with the alignment of incentives. These issues boil down to just a few problems in proof-of-work. Issues such as privately mining with bleeding-edge hardware before it's publicly accessible, mining at extremely low/no electrical cost and utilizing free labor. When combined these three issues become a powerful efficiency margin between you and your competitors, creating only a few places in the world that can compete on an even playing field. We have a plan to re-align these incentives under a new proof-of-work model which incorporates X11 and ASICs."

So Evan has a plan that will eliminate the centralization risk while retaining the network security that ASICs provide. Before anybody asks, I have no idea what he's planning.

OK, so when you think of these issues:
1.  privately mining with bleeding-edge hardware before it's publicly accessible
2.  mining at extremely low/no electrical cost and utilizing free labor.

And the fact that we know this is the issue he has primarily been working on since coming back from the Satoshi Roundtable (a trip that inspired whatever it is he is doing) and the fact he said he's been finishing up ~ 5000 lines of code and is compiling... and he says he found a "neat way" to create a decentralized (business?) incubator... leads me to think that the budgeting system may incentivize businesses in the mining field and ASIC manufacturing field?  But the following quote:

"When combined these three issues become a powerful efficiency margin between you and your competitors, creating only a few places in the world that can compete on an even playing field. We have a plan to re-align these incentives under a new proof-of-work model which incorporates X11 and ASICs."

leaves it so up in the air, I still can't see the whole picture.

Dagnabbit, what in the world could this solution be?

DASH powered Kick-starter.

DASH funds held in escrow for start-up projects and then released by the blockchain on meeting fund raising milestones.. 

If you help in funding a project, you also get voting rights that go towards governance for decision making, change in project scope, allocation of funds and much, much more(tm)

would work for crowd and private initiatives. e.g. might be just one angel investor that would hold all voting rights for governance or a crowd funded start-up with 50k people participating.

All powered by DASH
 
my two bobs 

That sounds intriguing!

[toknormal]

The chairs say everything's ok.

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

An update on the dash.org redesign by kot:

https://dashpay.atlassian.net/wiki/download/attachments/25002225/03.2016%20New-Website-Design-Project-Status-Report.pdf?api=v2