[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[TanteStefana2]

Who ever was the first human to hoard gold first has something to answer for.  

What an egregious and offensive act.  I'm going to troll the bitcointalk forum on gold and spread the word about the injustice of the mother of all insta-mines.

Fuck these instant gold mining hoarders, my ancestors should have been notified and consulted first.

See you @ Gold | First Anonymous Precious Metal | Inventor of Gold11, Dark Gold Wave, Goldsend and InstantAu

LOL, I think most of 'em were kings, and most of 'em eventually met a violent end, probably at the hands of family, who met violent ends, etc....  We better keep an eye on our kids, LOL

[TanteStefana2]

So i did a bit of research and apparently my ancestors were notified on a cave wall post.

Ancient Ceti apparently replied with a cave wall post and declared Gold (Au) as an 'alt metal' that was shit and would never amount to anything, so he never mined it.

I'm still going to troll the Gold forum as people need to know of this Au insta-mine.

LOL, actually not so ancient history here in California.   It took me some time to get where BitcoinRush got his name.  Didn't realize until I found out he lives in Northern California, LOL.  Great name!

[dashwhale]

De-clustered voting

If you run multiple masternodes and use the manual wallet "vote-many" function on commandline, all votes for a proposal are submitted to the network within one second. So it's easy as pie to see which and how many masternodes belong to one owner.

To counter this issue, we just released "de-clustered" voting. Simply hit the "vote" button on a Dashwhale proposal page. Your proposal votes are submitted over several hours at random timepoints. Nobody is able to group your masternodes based on their votes anymore.

This feature strongly enhances your voting anonymity, compared to manual command-line wallet voting!

https://www.dashwhale.org

Best,
Rango

[TanteStefana2]

https://dashtalk.org/threads/the-birth-of-darkcoin.162/
and
http://dashdot.io/alpha/?page_id=118

Bump.

Must be a slow day over at Monero

It's always a slow day over there.

[ddink7]

De-clustered voting

If you run multiple masternodes and use the manual wallet "vote-many" function on commandline, all votes for a proposal are submitted to the network within one second. So it's easy as pie to see which and how many masternodes belong to one owner.

To counter this issue, we just released "de-clustered" voting. Simply hit the "vote" button on a Dashwhale proposal page. Your proposal votes are submitted over several hours at random timepoints. Nobody is able to group your masternodes based on their votes anymore.

This feature strongly enhances your voting anonymity, compared to manual command-line wallet voting!

https://www.dashwhale.org

Best,
Rango

Thank you! This is a great improvement!!

[TanteStefana2]

I think time has refuted all of this ranting.  We have seen no instability nor weaknesses to the X11 hash algo.  Your problems with the announcement thread titles are just too funny.

[TanteStefana2]

Fire Destroys Thai Bitcoin Mining Facility
http://www.altcointoday.com/gallery-fire-destroys-thai-bitcoin-mining-facility/
careful with those miners
 

Oh no!  That's awful!  Ugh, poor people

[TanteStefana2]

The G-30 Group Of Central Bankers Warn They Can "No Longer Save The World"

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-11/g-30-group-central-bankers-warn-they-can-no-longer-save-world

No they're too busy killing it, LOL.

Oh, I'm sort of glad that the fire was 2 years ago, I mean, hopefully they've recovered.

[TanteStefana2]

Masternodes reject them if they don't comply.  That's why we watch the % of masternodes that update when we have a spork.  If Evan pulls the switch, and we have 90% compliance on the network with the latest wallet, then miners that don't update have their blocks rejected.  Only a block from the right version passes.  (well, there is a chance that a non-updated miner will hit one of the 10% masternodes but then we turn off the spork and try again.  When we take control of the blockchain (usually on first try) we have it.

So what I said was true for Dash, I just thought it might be true for Bitcoin as well, at least on the level of all nodes should agree.  In Dash, Masternodes hold the keys to the door.

[TanteStefana2]

So I was going to vote and I dont know how, did not find a guide on dashtalk in the guide section,
evan uses this vote many command that i have not setup (have to figure that one out someday)

so im voting on each indivitual masternode,

this does not work: mnbudget vote-many d06d273364938cd2083d6f46264c05d38ff7b96c5705604e709f2b4a0e26e0e3 yes

Do i do this on my cold or hot wallet ?

a idiots guide would be good  

Yah, just remove the many.  mnbudget vote d0...........

[TanteStefana2]

This is not true. Darksend was closed source until RC5 in August/September 2014, when the source code was released. The rest of the Darkcoin source was open, but the Darksend portion was closed until Aug/Sept 2014. I helped write the official press release about Darksend being open-sourced, so I remember it well =)

and I think that worked out well, don't you?  I mean, we did have a bunch of complainers/trolls again, saying you can't close source it, but it is after all a company, Dash is, and we should use tactics that protect our intellectual property until it's needed to be open sourced, which is required to be taken seriously in the crypto world for good reason.  Still, while working on it, we don't need to let everyone see what we're doing.  We can hide until the big reveal just like Apple does.

[eduffield]

This is not true. Darksend was closed source until RC5 in August/September 2014, when the source code was released. The rest of the Darkcoin source was open, but the Darksend portion was closed until Aug/Sept 2014. I helped write the official press release about Darksend being open-sourced, so I remember it well =)

and I think that worked out well, don't you?  I mean, we did have a bunch of complainers/trolls again, saying you can't close source it, but it is after all a company, Dash is, and we should use tactics that protect our intellectual property until it's needed to be open sourced, which is required to be taken seriously in the crypto world for good reason.  Still, while working on it, we don't need to let everyone see what we're doing.  We can hide until the big reveal just like Apple does.

There are no plans to close source anything. We're just going to build it privately, then open source it as soon as we launch  .

[cryptonewb]

This is not true. Darksend was closed source until RC5 in August/September 2014, when the source code was released. The rest of the Darkcoin source was open, but the Darksend portion was closed until Aug/Sept 2014. I helped write the official press release about Darksend being open-sourced, so I remember it well =)

and I think that worked out well, don't you?  I mean, we did have a bunch of complainers/trolls again, saying you can't close source it, but it is after all a company, Dash is, and we should use tactics that protect our intellectual property until it's needed to be open sourced, which is required to be taken seriously in the crypto world for good reason.  Still, while working on it, we don't need to let everyone see what we're doing.  We can hide until the big reveal just like Apple does.

There are no plans to close source anything. We're just going to build it privately, then open source it as soon as we launch  .

that's good news!
But why not build it publicly, so other developers/volunteers can help?

Also, now that you are online, can you please answer my newb questions:

1) How are the masternode locks enforced in the network? How do you force miners to not mine a double spent transaction?
2) Is it possible that there is a competing locked transaction? If that transaction has a higher fee (double spend attempt), I guess the miners rather confirm the transaction with the higher fee...
3) Masternodes don't get fees to lock transactions? What is the incentive to do the work? How are the masternode rewards distributed? How can the network "know" that masternodes are online and doing the work in stead of just being idle to have a lower bandwidth usage?
4) I wonder how you can have so much transactions per second? (the slide shows 500-1500) I read that bitcoin is limited to 7 transactions per second. I showed that it seems impossible to lock 350 transactions simultaneously with 3500 masternodes, unless you allow overlap. But that should be avoided, because it can happen that a masternode has the power to decide which of the 2 transactions he confirms during a double spend attack.

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

This is not true. Darksend was closed source until RC5 in August/September 2014, when the source code was released. The rest of the Darkcoin source was open, but the Darksend portion was closed until Aug/Sept 2014. I helped write the official press release about Darksend being open-sourced, so I remember it well =)

and I think that worked out well, don't you?  I mean, we did have a bunch of complainers/trolls again, saying you can't close source it, but it is after all a company, Dash is, and we should use tactics that protect our intellectual property until it's needed to be open sourced, which is required to be taken seriously in the crypto world for good reason.  Still, while working on it, we don't need to let everyone see what we're doing.  We can hide until the big reveal just like Apple does.

There are no plans to close source anything. We're just going to build it privately, then open source it as soon as we launch  .

Sounds good, so Dash maintains first-mover advantage without the calls of "closed-source!" which at one time were louder than "instamine!".  

[ddink7]

This is not true. Darksend was closed source until RC5 in August/September 2014, when the source code was released. The rest of the Darkcoin source was open, but the Darksend portion was closed until Aug/Sept 2014. I helped write the official press release about Darksend being open-sourced, so I remember it well =)

and I think that worked out well, don't you?  I mean, we did have a bunch of complainers/trolls again, saying you can't close source it, but it is after all a company, Dash is, and we should use tactics that protect our intellectual property until it's needed to be open sourced, which is required to be taken seriously in the crypto world for good reason.  Still, while working on it, we don't need to let everyone see what we're doing.  We can hide until the big reveal just like Apple does.

There are no plans to close source anything. We're just going to build it privately, then open source it as soon as we launch  .

Sounds good, so Dash maintains first-mover advantage without the calls of "closed-source!" which at one time were louder than "instamine!".  

So true! Over the last year and a half, there have been so many failed trolling campaigns. We've heard:

Darksend isn't anonymous. <-That claim died long ago.
Hard forks will kill your project. <-Ditto
Darksend is closed source. <-Ditto
Masternodes are centralized. <-Ditto
The reference node is centralized. <-Ditto
There needs to be masternode blinding. <-Ditto
Instant transactions aren't possible in crypto. <-Ditto

Now all they have left is the instamine. That implies that they are blown away by the actual technology, to the point where the only thing they have left to complain about is the launch!

[eduffield]

This is not true. Darksend was closed source until RC5 in August/September 2014, when the source code was released. The rest of the Darkcoin source was open, but the Darksend portion was closed until Aug/Sept 2014. I helped write the official press release about Darksend being open-sourced, so I remember it well =)

and I think that worked out well, don't you?  I mean, we did have a bunch of complainers/trolls again, saying you can't close source it, but it is after all a company, Dash is, and we should use tactics that protect our intellectual property until it's needed to be open sourced, which is required to be taken seriously in the crypto world for good reason.  Still, while working on it, we don't need to let everyone see what we're doing.  We can hide until the big reveal just like Apple does.

There are no plans to close source anything. We're just going to build it privately, then open source it as soon as we launch  .

that's good news!
But why not build it publicly, so other developers/volunteers can help?

Also, now that you are online, can you please answer my newb questions:

1) How are the masternode locks enforced in the network? How do you force miners to not mine a double spent transaction?
2) Is it possible that there is a competing locked transaction? If that transaction has a higher fee (double spend attempt), I guess the miners rather confirm the transaction with the higher fee...
3) Masternodes don't get fees to lock transactions? What is the incentive to do the work? How are the masternode rewards distributed? How can the network "know" that masternodes are online and doing the work in stead of just being idle to have a lower bandwidth usage?
4) I wonder how you can have so much transactions per second? (the slide shows 500-1500) I read that bitcoin is limited to 7 transactions per second. I showed that it seems impossible to lock 350 transactions simultaneously with 3500 masternodes, unless you allow overlap. But that should be avoided, because it can happen that a masternode has the power to decide which of the 2 transactions he confirms during a double spend attack.

1.) There is code that scans all incoming blocks for transaction locks when accepting transactions and blocks. This means that a block that contains a conflicting transaction will be automatically rejected.
2.) The answer to this one is 3 fold.
    a. Currently if there are conflicting locks on the network, they will actually cancel each other. 2 conflicting locks doesn't really give miners a choice, it just removes instantX and goes back to proof of work.
    b. The quorums are selected by inputs though, so you'll get the same quorum for the same transaction even with a different fee. This means, they would have already decided and no conflicting lock would be issued.
    c. The new improved way is to use the quorum timestamp, then take the earliest one always.
3.) Masternodes are paid from the blockchain reward, which will be worth more as the services are utilized more. My position is that monetary services of the network should be provided at no or low cost, then we can add on other services over the coming years by financing them from the budget. The masternode network will own Virtual Corporations that are working to expand the reach of Dash. Then they will be paid from the dividends from those companies (a few years off).
4.) DAPI was just one of many components -- it isn't what allows for such scalability  

[TanteStefana2]

This is not true. Darksend was closed source until RC5 in August/September 2014, when the source code was released. The rest of the Darkcoin source was open, but the Darksend portion was closed until Aug/Sept 2014. I helped write the official press release about Darksend being open-sourced, so I remember it well =)

and I think that worked out well, don't you?  I mean, we did have a bunch of complainers/trolls again, saying you can't close source it, but it is after all a company, Dash is, and we should use tactics that protect our intellectual property until it's needed to be open sourced, which is required to be taken seriously in the crypto world for good reason.  Still, while working on it, we don't need to let everyone see what we're doing.  We can hide until the big reveal just like Apple does.

There are no plans to close source anything. We're just going to build it privately, then open source it as soon as we launch  .

Launch as in Testnet?  Or Mainnet?  I know we can't get away with closed source on mainnet anymore.  Anyway, what you're saying is basically what I figured would happen.

[TanteStefana2]

that's good news!
But why not build it publicly, so other developers/volunteers can help?

Also, now that you are online, can you please answer my newb questions:

Personally, I think it's because they can't and won't unless they want to steal the idea for their own project.  I personally don't want Dash to take that chance.  I want it open-source on main net, it has to be, but any time before that, but after it's been developed and coded at least to 90% I'd like to see kept hidden.  Of course, you've heard me say that, and you want Evan to answer.  I don't know why I can't shut my mouth.  My fingers are itchy or something, LOL.  Forgive me please

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EheLN-MDzrA (OMG, and I think this is "new" music, check out those phones!  ROFLMAO)  And that's pointed at me, nobody else so don't take offense

[cryptonewb]

Sorry for the late response, I was researching cryptonote a little bit today. It's confusing, but i think I know the basics now.

I also want to add that a lot of gold in the world is private

If you're talking about physical gold, the 'privacy' does not derive from the gold itself. It is not 'private' in any sense.

The records of ownership on the other hand are private. It may be "kept" private by hiding it in a vault, but the privacy is not a property of the monetary media.

I give you that. it wasn't really a good example indeed. But I still fail to see how a private blockchain results in fiat...

There is a lot of confusion between 2 things: Privacy and Anonymity.

Cash is anonymous but it is not private. If someone sees a $1000 note lying on the ground, the lack of 'privacy' of that $1000 monetary media is not going to detract from its attractiveness. It might have had an owner, but the owner's name is not 'stamped' on the note (hence it IS anonymous).

The fact that the owner's name isn't stamped on it makes it fungible, not anonymous. Anonymous is something a person can be, not an object.

On the other hand, credit money - which is a record keeping exercise - involves records which are kept out of the public view. They are therefore private but not anonymous.

I agree, when the balance is not publicly known, we are talking about privacy. No one can see how much money I hold, how much i'm sending or receiving.

But is that a bad thing? i think we need privacy when handling our money. This doesn't necessarily  result in credit (fiat) money.
Credit money can probably only function as long as it has private accounting, otherwise the "fractional reserve" is exposed. Banks can print money by lending it out, central banks can print money to buy assets or give loans to banks.

But money with private balances doesn't need to always result in fiat, as long as the emission is public. I already pointed out that monero has apparently a public emission.

They are private (as distinct from 'anonymous') for 2 reasons:

[1] - it is 'backed' money and not base money, which means its only any use if a trusted party is prepared to exchange the numbers in my account ultimately for cash. This leads to the need for a counterparty in the 'trust' relationship and therefore point 2...

[2] - accounts are synonymous with persons, since they (unlike cash) have no value on their own. The credit or debit balance is only meaningful when associated with a legal entity who inherits the obligations represented in the account records

Since cryptocurrency is void of a trusted party (backer), it therefore has to adopt the cash model - not the credit model. We cannot think of blockchain addresses as 'accounts', they must be thought of as being independent of people - like gold nuggets. As such one cannot build a privacy model around obscurity, hence the need for a public fungible blockchain so that there's no conflict between transparency and anonymity.

[1] As far as I understand (I didn't actually test monero yet) you can see your balance, and this balance are 'real coins', because the emission is public. It's an asset. Claiming a cryptocurrency isn't an asset, while it has a public emission, seems illogical
[2] I agree that people will associate themselves with monero accounts, but there is inherently no difference with this if you compare it with DASH or BTC. The only difference is that you need only one address because the balances are apparently private. This seems to be a convenience, not some sort of problem.

you can always have multiple 'accounts' I guess, so I really don't get your point.

[Icebucket]

Brainstorm session for projects that could add value to Dash

All ideas welcome

https://dashtalk.org/threads/can-you-think-of-a-project-to-fund.6385/