[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[toknormal]

... as it seems to be a honeypot designed to get people use it thinking their transactions will be private.

Exactly.

Kind of like the honeypot of 'democracy' - thinking we have a choice because we can vote for 2 sides of the same coin 

[bitl0ck]

DASH WALLET CUBE, SILVER MADE.

PM me if anyone is interested.

[binaryFate]

... as it seems to be a honeypot designed to get people use it thinking their transactions will be private.

Exactly.

If "they" could break the crypto they would not have bothered with a 82% premine.

[BiteMyShinyMetalAss]

1    Poloniex   DASH/BTC    $ 8,352   $ 2.34    27.39 %    Recently
2    Cryptsy   DASH/BTC    $ 7,743   $ 2.38    25.39 %    Recently
3    Bittrex   DASH/BTC    $ 5,768   $ 2.38    18.91 %    Recently
4    useCryptos   DASH/BTC    $ 2,624   $ 2.36    8.61 %    Recently
5    CEX.IO   DASH/BTC    $ 2,106   $ 2.39    6.91 %    Recently


So Poloniex overtook Cryptsy for the volume. 

[ddink7]

Boolberry: Put up or shut up. Trace an 8-round Darksend transaction back to its source address. Go for it. If our anonymity is so weak, it shouldn't be a problem. So either prove how "weak" our anonymity is, or go back to working on your NSACoin.

[ddink7]

Please to upvote my post warning about problems with Cryptsy withdrawals since the 5th Oct:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3nkotr/cryptsy_responds_to_coinfire

Otohs 1 point 26 minutes ago

I had over $50,000 on Cryptsy on the 5th Oct, I sold (at a loss) for BTC, LTC & DASH, I was able to withdraw the 8,433 DASH, but the 2,886 LTC & 76.24 BTC have been stuck there for over one week, I was then locked out of my account and dealing with support has been a nightmare, fobbed off with "you're in a queue" or ignored mostly.

I would not advise risking any funds there atm.

Will update on developments...

Why the hell would anybody want a litecoin?

Anyway, I'm really sorry for you Otoh...that sucks badly =(

Leaves me wondering if there really is something to the allegations of multiple federal investigations...or if the rumors of such led to a "run" on the exchange and unveiled some sort of a fractional reserve scam going on.

Not that I'm alleging that any such thing happened...but it does leave one to speculate.

[noobtrader]

What in the world does this have to do with "the NSA designed cryptonote" that people on this thread are now repeating?

maybe because your attitude of being self appointed crypto-sheriff sort of thing...  

[TheDasher]

you can always have multiple 'accounts' I guess, so I really don't get your point.

Then I suggest you take out a Cryptonote hedge (or even go all in ). You can always invest in both. That will save you the headache.

I still think that dash could be it, seems to have a big community and a lot of software (smartphone wallet, GUI, ...)
Also, a bigger market cap. So it has a better chance than cryptonote.

But I need to investigate it a bit more. I'm now syncing my DASH client to test it out. I'll try to do some darksend and instantX tomorrow
I also got some answers on the questions I asked in the monero topic, will also try to test that out in one of the next days, so I can compare.

I still don't really understand how monero works. Thanks to the explanation by Evan, I think most of my concerns are gone, although I need to look at it a bit more:

1) How are the masternode locks enforced in the network? How do you force miners to not mine a double spent transaction?
2) Is it possible that there is a competing locked transaction? If that transaction has a higher fee (double spend attempt), I guess the miners rather confirm the transaction with the higher fee...
3) Masternodes don't get fees to lock transactions? What is the incentive to do the work? How are the masternode rewards distributed? How can the network "know" that masternodes are online and doing the work in stead of just being idle to have a lower bandwidth usage?
4) I wonder how you can have so much transactions per second? (the slide shows 500-1500) I read that bitcoin is limited to 7 transactions per second. I showed that it seems impossible to lock 350 transactions simultaneously with 3500 masternodes, unless you allow overlap. But that should be avoided, because it can happen that a masternode has the power to decide which of the 2 transactions he confirms during a double spend attack.

1.) There is code that scans all incoming blocks for transaction locks when accepting transactions and blocks. This means that a block that contains a conflicting transaction will be automatically rejected.
2.) The answer to this one is 3 fold.
    a. Currently if there are conflicting locks on the network, they will actually cancel each other. 2 conflicting locks doesn't really give miners a choice, it just removes instantX and goes back to proof of work.
    b. The quorums are selected by inputs though, so you'll get the same quorum for the same transaction even with a different fee. This means, they would have already decided and no conflicting lock would be issued.
    c. The new improved way is to use the quorum timestamp, then take the earliest one always.
3.) Masternodes are paid from the blockchain reward, which will be worth more as the services are utilized more. My position is that monetary services of the network should be provided at no or low cost, then we can add on other services over the coming years by financing them from the budget. The masternode network will own Virtual Corporations that are working to expand the reach of Dash. Then they will be paid from the dividends from those companies (a few years off).
4.) DAPI was just one of many components -- it isn't what allows for such scalability  

1) so the transaction locks are part of the consensus rules? That indeed makes sense. Still strange to wrap my head around it, because in bitcoin miners "lock" transactions in blocks
2) a - doesn't really seems safe to accept InstantX transactions  
b - so what happens in case there are 3 different inputs? Transaction 1  has input A and B, transaction 2 has input A and C. A is being double spend.  are the oracles for the first transaction different from the second one, or is there an overlap?
c - timestamps aren't 100% right all the time and can be manipulated.
3) you didn't answer the question on how the network knows that a masternode isn't idling and doing his job. This seems pretty important!
4) so we need to wait... I hope we know more when the amsterdam vid is online



edit: this is the main reason I still believe that the DASH network effect is just bigger and dash probably has more chances to succeed:

It seems like this cryptonote thing and dash have a different approach to privacy. need to research more now...

Yes, Cryptonote has so called on-chain anonymity, and DASH has so called off-chain anonymity. They are different approaches aiming to achieve the same thing. The difference is, that the mixing of inputs and outputs (where the money is coming and where it's going) is retained in the blockchain and protected by math in on-chain anonymity, whereas in DASH's off-chain anonymity the mixing is done outside the blockchain by the masternode network and the link between inputs and outputs is not recorded into the blockchain.

I'm not sure if the coming Evolution version will change that though? Evan has hinted that all transactions will be private by default which would imply that there will be some changes to how the anonymity is achieved.

In the end we're all going after the same thing, a replacement for fiat, that can't corrupted or controlled by any single entity.

Requirements:
- Fungibility - All units of the current must be interchangeable (after sending coins they shouldn't have history attached)
- Speed - The currency must be able to compete with credit cards (1-5 second double-spend proof confirmations)
- Governance - The currency must be governed in a decentralized and decisive way
- Funding - The currency must have a permanent decentralized funding source for development, marketing, legal, etc
- Scalability - The currency must be able to scale to billions of transactions per day with 100% decentralization
- Ease Of Use - The currency must be usable by normal every day people

DASH attempts to fulfill all those requirements above and is actively working towards them, and features currently 4 (and a half as it has a basic GUI wallet I suppose) of them. Cryptonote coins seem to aim only at 1/6th of those requirements of digital cash.

Don't waste any funds on this DASH nonsense.  Its a pre-mined scam built on top of lies.  Anonymity simply does not work.  If it wasnt for the cult followers who are over invested in this pyramid scheme this coin would be dead a long time ago.  Don't turn your CASH into ASH by investing in DASH.

[BiteMyShinyMetalAss]

If  you're not running a version 0.12.0.55 Masternode, you're putting the breaks on when people are trying to mix.  We still have about 18% on a different version which is messing up the mixing performance.  Like hitting a brick wall. 

So please update ASAP, thanks

Answering your call! Kinda messed up server setups and no longer login as root so could not install dashman and was too lazy to update. But realized that i can physically  copy script and use it! So easy to update, no longer a burden!

[BitWater]

At first I thought the article directed at Cryptsy was mostly libel until I saw what happened to OTOH. Got most of my holding outs except for LTCX, I don't have a working wallet for that one yet.

Makes me glad I hold most my coins off the exchanges theses days.

Any ETA for when we can except a premiere for V13?

[TheDasher]

Boolberry: Put up or shut up. Trace an 8-round Darksend transaction back to its source address. Go for it. If our anonymity is so weak, it shouldn't be a problem. So either prove how "weak" our anonymity is, or go back to working on your NSACoin.

Can you tell me how long it would take you to execute an 8-round mix and transaction if I wanted to send $200 worth of DASH?  From the moment I purchase DASH until the moment I could send it to someone else after 8-rounds?

Days?

Weeks?

Months?

Years?

[Sub-Ether]

Any ETA for when we can except a premiere for V13?

Its going to be done in stages over the next few months, the team said lots of coding work and testing to do.

[Sub-Ether]

Y'know, the genuine trolls methods are many fold, scare away anyone interested, divide groups, spread rumour... and many more subtle ways too such as encouraging hostility and the result of that is we do their work for them. Unless binaryFate sold his account at some stage then I can safely say he's not a troll and any impression of hostility on his part is likely the result of the same subtle trolling that's effecting us.

Thank you.
I know this thread is under constant "attack", but indeed responding like some do isn't gonna help elevate the level!

Over 5000 pages of constant spamming and nasty disinfo by Monero fanboys, means that anyone with a Monero signature is automatically labelled a troll, sorry if I typecast you wrong but there have not been any other exceptions as yet.

[toknormal]

You're falling for it

I think you just achieved 'Legendary' status with that post.

Your stock value is at an ATH. Hope it's not time to sell 

[BitWater]

I have had interest in Monero for some time its the constant trolling that has kept me away from it.

[toknormal]

Lol, never! Same as everything else, stick with it come what may, all the way up, all the way down just so long as its principles remain sound.

Well at least you're deserving of it, being a community contributor rather than a community leech like iCEBREAKER. (Just as well there's enough blood to go around  ).

[BitWater]

I have had interest in Monero for some time its the constant trolling that has kept me away from it.

The Monero folks that troll here? I doubt many of them contribute anything to Monero, they're mostly just parasites that want to see their profits grow and their post history is usually revealing. Funny thing is, if they spent as much time making an honest living as they do spreading FUD they'd probably make far more, pitiable really.

Not only that but to see Monero reps in person doing the same thing did much more damage than good from an investor standpoint. If I wanted to be taken seriously I wouldn't be acting like that.

[the-baker]

I have had interest in Monero for some time its the constant trolling that has kept me away from it.

The Monero folks that troll here? I doubt many of them contribute anything to Monero, they're mostly just parasites that want to see their profits grow and their post history is usually revealing. Funny thing is, if they spent as much time making an honest living as they do spreading FUD they'd probably make far more, pitiable really.

Sure, but it is kind of strange how they all seem to support the same project. So whatever technological merits monero might have, they are (to my mind at least) cancelled out by the fact that the project seems to attract sociopaths in great numbers. To put it more bluntly, when I see all those ignored posts here, it always makes me think of this:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/92/Bundesarchiv_Bild_102-14469%2C_Berlin%2C_Boykott-Posten_vor_j%C3%BCdischem_Warenhaus.jpg

[toknormal]

Sure, but it is kind of strange how they all seem to support the same project. So whatever technological merits monero might have, they are (to my mind at least) cancelled out by the fact that the project seems to attract sociopaths in great numbers

You're not the only one who's noticed that.

The subtle common factor amongst many of them  - either implicitly or explicitly - is a mindset that believes in the supremacy of technology over the human.

Here's a backgrounder, straight from one of its own staff members: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=971275.0

Why do you think they bang on about 'math' so much and dismiss the need for public accountability in blockchains. Worship of academic prowess over practical endeavour. Immunity to humour etc. It's a (cult) mindset and it has infected this whole sector of bitcointalk. (It's also, by the way, what informs and fuels their hatred of the 'instamine' because that was a human failing - a kind of intolerable breach of a sacred technological 'rule').

Nowhere amongst all the technological sabre rattling is there ever any sober analysis of money a' la Antonopolis. i.e. as a sociological phenomenon. They think this is nothing more than a race for technological supremacy. In fact money is historically a low tech, sociological, messy, complex concept as I've been trying to express over a few hundred thread pages. Expecting acknowledgement of that fact from the 'techno-cult', though would be like asking Count Dracula to dine on a meal of baked garlic and shallots with aioli served up on a platter blessed by the Holy Father himself.

As I say, I'm not accusing everyone of being consciously signed up 'cult' members, but the ones that aren't who we regularly run into sure are unconscious subscribers to that mindset as illustrated by deranged posts such as this.

Funnily, in an interesting bit of "rabbit hole" trivia, there is a sci-fi culture/genre known as "Cyberpunk" which is loosely associated with transhumanism by many. One term originating in this genre (created by William Gibson in the Novel 'Neuromancer') to do with protecting networks from unsolicited access is "Intrusion Countermeasures Electronics" (ICE).

In Neuromancer, a piece of software designed to break through such ICE's is known as, (surprise) an ICEbreaker.



In fact, not unlike the role performed by this piece of significant commercial software....



As it happens, the company that built and marketed that software was started by a certain personality, well known on BCT who would later go on to do even "greater" things at a company called "Hashfast".

Just a co-incidence, of course.  

[BitWater]

Sure, but it is kind of strange how they all seem to support the same project. So whatever technological merits monero might have, they are (to my mind at least) cancelled out by the fact that the project seems to attract sociopaths in great numbers.

This sums it.