[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[bigrcanada]

...

The whole idea behind the Virtual Corporation is that anyone can step up to the plate and work for it, if accepted by the voters.

And I must suggest strongly, that anyone wanting to do a proposal, think months in advance, start a discussion on it (preferably on Dashwhale).  You need time to gain the approval of such a diverse group of voters.  The community needs time to digest your proposal, make suggestions, and for you to implement those suggestions.  In a very real way, the forum thread that contains your proposal is your contract with the Dash Virtual Corporation.  These proposals have been coming out so loosely, mostly things that Evan says he'd like us to do, and we just do it.  Eventually, proposals should come from anyone, and they should be formalized in a thread, with final specifications and a time table.  The community should keep them honest and raise the red flag if something is going wrong, so the MN can vote down the proposal and stop the funding on solid grounds.  

Don't get me wrong, we Know our current core team are keeping tight watch on all funds they spend, and they're a small group doing so many things, but plan on putting that ledger out for public view.  But that's not how a decentralized system should work, (relying on one person to tell us what to fund and do) and we need to start setting up some rules/traditions.  IMO

Look what happened to DashWhale's proposal.  The implimented Evan's vision of a place where we can manage Dash voting, and a forum for proposals.  However, Evan never formally Green lighted the project, I suspect because he doesn't want to be the almighty dictator and to let MN voters do the right thing.  And MN voters won't support it, with many saying the reason was that Evan didn't say they should.  We all (community and MN voters) need to grow up and make the decisions that are right for Dash.  Will others that start projects, hoping to show they can do it prior to asking for funding, now stop because it looks very much like they can't win approval?  A project that's already obviously had a TON of work put into it for the benefit of the Dash Virtual Corporation, can't even get funding boggles my mind.

Otherwise it's been going very well

This hits the nail on the head, TanteStefana2.  

Fully agree astonished to see the  dashwale proposal not getting enough yes votes

why would a 3rd party app get funding from Dash ?
i do not understand why you are still pushing for this.

I am not a member there, no need for me (i do not share my details)
why would i vote for them to get funding ?
it is a great app, sure, but they could ask their customers to pay a dash a month and everything is settled !
why don't they ?

these 'emotional' discussions about votes like this or like that
come on, it has nothing to do with evan giving some kind of 'hand signal' that everybody votes yes or no !
i think (and hope) we are old enough to do that on our own.

so please let it go
 

I Also agree.   It's not my belief that we should be funding "private" 3rd party projects. It was not what I believed should be the purpose of the funding mechanism, but rather funding for core development and features of the currency it's self.  IMO

[1714888970]

1714888970

[1714888970]

1714888970

[1714888970]

1714888970

[1714888970]

1714888970

[aigeezer]

Dashwhale, moocowmoo and node40's services are so appealing that they provide a useful hint of what could - some day - be big centralized trouble.

we'll have dedicated 'start' keys sometime in the future, so I won't even need that anymore, which I look forward to.

Cool. That's the kind of thing I mean. Otherwise the Bad Guys can take one nugget from you, another from the exchanges, another from the banks, and so forth up to full identity profiles that could eventually destroy the coin.

You know all this - I'm thinking "in general", "best practices" kind of thing.

[TanteStefana2]

And to answer a question above, Node 40 is a for profit service provider, DashWhale is a DASH service provider that wants to be open and free to the community, so that they will come and use it.

You can say it's centralized, but like Evan said, there are some things that are more efficient if they're centralized, and in this case it has nothing to do with security of the currency.  But it does make it easier for every voice to be heard.

It sounds like people only want to fund core developers.  If that were the case, and making the currency useful or increasing participation in voting, etc were not worthy of funding, then I see no point to any of this.  Check out our current participation.  The best participation was for public awareness, where we had just over 50% participation.  And we're an active community, yet nearly 50% of MN owners didn't vote.  Why?  Probably because it was too hard, or troublesome.  Voting participation has done nothing but go down hill from those early days, and frankly those votes were requested by Evan.

Just like the outside world, we're becoming people who want to put all our decisions into one person's hands, Evan's.  Our benevolent dictator.  Not that Evan wants it, he want's us to start helping to make decisions.  We're acting just l like the masses of people who want no more climbing equipment in the parks for the children because they're dangerous, have the Government take care of us, make all the decisions.

And a tool, DashWhale, comes around which makes it easier for us to stay informed and participate, and make good (by the "wisdom of the masses") decisions and nobody wants to vote for it.

Yah, I'm still "discussing" it because I still think it's immensely important that we should support them.  Just my point of view and if I could convince someone, great.

[TanteStefana2]

but dashwhale is paid service, its better if community willing to create their own website with these capability and funded by community.

DashWhale is NOT a paid service and it was built by a community member with core team support and help.  It was built out of Evan's vision on how the interaction between community, project proposers and MN voters would interact.  It's awesome that someone built it.  And they built it first before asking for money to show the vision, so we all could understand.  Yet we don't understand an inkling.

[RenegadeMan]

When and if a serious attempt is made to destroy DASH it could well take the form of an irresistible honeypot app. Dashwhale, moocowmoo and node40's services are so appealing that they provide a useful hint of what could - some day - be big centralized trouble. I hope they and all future devs can go out of their way to demonstrate that there are no centralized vulnerabilities in their services (email databases being one obvious vulnerability, ahem).

I absolutely do not want to demean those devs - I use some of their apps and am grateful to have them - but that's the problem (or future problem). Trusting Internet Strangers is dangerous. Trusting long-time allies is also dangerous (see Vertoe).

Gotta stay trustless.

Crude example: imagine a perfect app that sends daily email summaries of everything a MN operator would want to know - a perfect jewel. Under the hood is a database of MN owners that could be hacked or subpoenaed. The coin protocol security is thus compromised by a third-party app, even if its dev has no bad intentions.



 

Excellent post aigeezer!

I've been spending a lot of time in other BCT threads and on other forums altogether. I quite often have to spend an hour or two 'catching up' on this Dash thread. I'm starting to notice a worrying trend. There seems to be quite a few people on here that don't look at anything else much in crypto and just live and breath Dash alone. I can understand that as this is a great community and this project is certainly being managed and executed for the long haul. But I feel like I'm often seeing naivety being expressed where people haven't really thought through fundamental issues around how some of this stuff works and the likely nefarious actors that will eventually be attracted to Dash.

In fact, some of the notions and ideas people are holding as to how Dash will become mainstream and accepted at the point of sale in many retail outlets I think is bordering on lunacy. At the moment Dash is a tiny tiny little experiment we all love and get much enjoyment out of being a part of. We see Evan and the team working very hard and coming up with never ending creativity around solving the problems of crypto. But I'd really like everyone to take a reality check on just what's going to be involved in getting an untraceable, untrackable, anonymous digital currency anywhere even close to mainstream adoption. It's going to be a mighty undertaking that will involve battles, attacks and character assassinations we can't even begin to imagine.

There is just NO WAY IN HEAVEN OR ON EARTH in today's highly anti-terrorism-funding, anti-cash, anti-untraceable, anti-anything that has the slightest whiff of nefariousness that Dash isn't going to hit multiple extreme roadblocks and major controversy storms. When the mainstream media gets hold of its private/anonymous capabilities they will have a field day of highlighting how it's a terrorists and paedophiles dream come true. I can see it coming as clear as day. We're already seeing the banking fraternity getting very worried about Bitcoin. Down here in Australia all the banks have advised Bitcoin companies and exchanges they're closing their accounts. They're making out it's because they don't want to be involved with digital currency that has so much potential for funding crime and money laundering, but the real reason is they can see the enormous damage digital currencies can do to their businesses.

When Dash starts being covered by the mainstream media the anonymity features are going to be about as acceptable to government regulators as people being able to use a pseudonym on their driver's licence (i.e. they'll be totally against it in every way imaginable). The concepts that we all understand around Dash's anonymity providing true fungability will be lost in a sea of acrimony and FUD about the anonymity just being there for nefarious dealings and nothing else. Mr and Mrs average will pretty much go along with it too as they've already been well groomed along the pathway of the "cashless society" courtesy of the government, big banks and credit card companies planting this seed over many decades. There's almost no understanding now in the general public of why privacy is an important part of democracy and there's certainly no understanding of fungability.

I just want everyone to check their group-think and confirmation-bias levels as, while I believe Dash is going to be successful, I simply cannot see it being taken up by the mainstream in any meaningful way in the next few years. A decade or two (after the world's gone through the financial calamity like no other that's ever happened before as everything deleverages) yes I can imagine things having changed so much after the population realises governments and central bankers are much to blame for fiat's meltdown, there will be an appetite with a new generation for all that Dash is and what it offers. But in the current climate and mental framework of the day, Dash is just too radical and too easily linked to everything people are fearful of.

But that's not to say that Dash won't be wildly successful in the short term though. It's a big world out there and with the total value of everything in the world currently at around $150 trillion, there's a hell of a lot of room for niche financial networks and tools. I believe Dash will end up attracting a whole raft of new players and partakers, but they're not going to be mums and dads "wanting to start using digital currencies" they'll be people aware of the need to be able to transact securely and privately and get much of their wealth out of the corrupt debt-based fiat financial system.

[TanteStefana2]

When and if a serious attempt is made to destroy DASH it could well take the form of an irresistible honeypot app. Dashwhale, moocowmoo and node40's services are so appealing that they provide a useful hint of what could - some day - be big centralized trouble. I hope they and all future devs can go out of their way to demonstrate that there are no centralized vulnerabilities in their services (email databases being one obvious vulnerability, ahem).

I absolutely do not want to demean those devs - I use some of their apps and am grateful to have them - but that's the problem (or future problem). Trusting Internet Strangers is dangerous. Trusting long-time allies is also dangerous (see Vertoe).

Gotta stay trustless.

Crude example: imagine a perfect app that sends daily email summaries of everything a MN operator would want to know - a perfect jewel. Under the hood is a database of MN owners that could be hacked or subpoenaed. The coin protocol security is thus compromised by a third-party app, even if its dev has no bad intentions.

I agree with you on this one.  I finally ended up signing up for Dashwhale so I could post, but I was irritated that they wanted an email.  It would actually be best to just have people "sign up" with an alias and that's it.  After all, the world currency that Dash is, should allow anyone to speak up on the forum.  I'd also like to see the forum decentralized, so that it can continue on even if DashWhale went out of existence, so that anyone that is willing to put it on their website, can, and the information stays updated and no matter what site you use to participate through, all websites dish out the same posts seamlessly.

That way it can feel like a centralized hub, but actually be completely decentralized forum.

[BrainShutdown]

but dashwhale is paid service, its better if community willing to create their own website with these capability and funded by community.

DashWhale is NOT a paid service and it was built by a community member with core team support and help.  It was built out of Evan's vision on how the interaction between community, project proposers and MN voters would interact.  It's awesome that someone built it.  And they built it first before asking for money to show the vision, so we all could understand.  Yet we don't understand an inkling.

That's the problem, it should be! No free lunch. If you start to subsidize one player it gets an unfair competitive advantage, MN operators will move to that service (lower costs) -> centralization  -> concentration of power. Just like the government...

[Minotaur26]

-snip-

Yah, I'm still "discussing" it because I still think it's immensely important that we should support them.  Just my point of view and if I could convince someone, great.

Well I just thought I would contribute since I have a slightly more practical position in this kind of thing.  In my case I am more interested in knowing if a project manager is going to fund the expenses he has without selling the Dash in exchanges, something like Shapeshift still means selling it in exchanges. That is the key for me at this stage, if someone is going to pay for all of their server expenses with their own FIAT and is just looking keep the Dash then that is the key for me, as that project manager is for all intents and purposes providing the OTC liquidity for his own project.

That is for example a requirement for any official spending we have done so far, not a single coin sold in an exchange is our goal.

Having said this, this is just a priority for me at this point in time, as the system grows and there is more liquidity then that wont matter as much. But we cant forget that the network just gives us tokens and the ecosystem is not mature enough to just support direct spending of Dash without us being careful about it.

The good news is that we can take on a project of any size as long as we can also find an sponsor that is willing to support it and keep the Dash for himself to run nodes and pay for the expenses. That is the whole reason behind our OTC program, and if a 3rd party service that is really important for Dash offers that type of reassurance I would be more inclined to support it. Just my personal view.

[TanteStefana2]

Kind of in agreement too but I do see a place for them if they're developing external systems for later integration. Like the budgeting system for example, that's just a simple yay or nay at the mo but it could expand in all kinds of ways, tracking progress, satisfaction on completion, all kinds of things. It's uncharted territory and finding what works will need all kinds of experimentation, not the kind of thing that can just be thrown into the client and hope for the best, trying them out externally beforehand as part of the development process makes sense imho. Those risks associated with third party services are still there though so folks that really understand security would sway my opinion.

Good points, didn't even think of that!

[TanteStefana2]

I don't miss vertoe. I do miss chaeplin though.

I really miss chaeplin too.  Brilliant.  It's always disconcerting and worrisome when someone you know on a forum disappears.  No way to find out if they're OK or dead, or captured or what

I've always leaned towards dead or captured, just to add to the mystery....


But really I keep thinking ......


!!RE-ELECT EL PRESIDENTE!!

!!RE-ELECT EL PRESIDENTE!!



truth is - It's been a year now and - nothing.....

.....So he graduates to the next level.....




?HAVE YOU SEEN ME ME HAS VISTO VOCÊ VIU ME 你见过我吗?

I like to go with captured because it's less permanent, and slightly more romantic to think he's still fighting the good fight.  Thanks for putting him on the milk carton, maybe it'll help locate him 

[RenegadeMan]

I don't miss vertoe. I do miss chaeplin though.

I really miss chaeplin too.  Brilliant.  It's always disconcerting and worrisome when someone you know on a forum disappears.  No way to find out if they're OK or dead, or captured or what

I've always leaned towards dead or captured, just to add to the mystery....


But really I keep thinking ......


!!RE-ELECT EL PRESIDENTE!!

!!RE-ELECT EL PRESIDENTE!!



truth is - It's been a year now and - nothing.....

.....So he graduates to the next level.....




?HAVE YOU SEEN ME ME HAS VISTO VOCÊ VIU ME 你见过我吗?

Hilarious Mangled Blue!

But unfortunately whatever's happened to him might not be so funny.

Interestingly his last post was (as you've noted) a year ago on 18/Oct/2014. But his last sign-on here on BCT was in May of this year.

[GhostPlayer]

 chaeplin, El Presidente, was (is) from South Korea, so I don't think his sudden disappearance is such a humorous subject.
 
He was highly motivated and contributed a ton and a half to development. I doubt he disappeared into thin air by his own will, and I really suspect that May login.

 He was a top contributer to Darkcoin, possibly the biggest one to date, in proportion to devs and code written at the time. Despite his sometimes hard to follow english, his tutorials were what made me learn linux, grasp the Masternode concept, and not be scared to give it a shot.

 Before Elberethzone's dashninja.pl, his website was the only way, and true blessing, to monitor the network. His work was nothing short of amazing.

 He was also a wonderful person on a 1-to-1 basis.

 I owe this man quite a lot, and I really hope all is well with him.

[aigeezer]

This seems current. Is it "our" chaeplin? https://github.com/chaeplin

[TanteStefana2]

chaeplin, El Presidente, was from South Korea, so I don't think his sudden disappearance is such a humorous subject. He was highly motivated and contribute a ton and a half to development.

 He was a top contributer to Darkcoin, possibly the biggest one to date, in proportion to devs and code written to date. Despite his sometimes hard to follow english, his tutorials were what made me learn linux, grasp the Masternode concept, and not be scared to give it a shot.

 Before Elberethzone's dashninja.pl, his website was the only way, and true blessing, to monitor the network. His work was nothing short of amazing.

 He was also a wonderful person on a 1-to-1 basis.

 I owe this man quite a lot, and I really hope all is well with him.

I don't think any of us think it's a humorous subject.  I think we were expressing our loss, and wish that he'd come back.  I must say that I'm kind of glad to hear he was from SK, as that is a fine country to live in, but I fear that probably means he is probably gone.  He seems too young in that picture to die, but?  Of course I hope I'm wrong, but I also don't think he'd just disappear like that otherwise.  Friends and family have no way to know how to log into forums to let friends know what happened, so.  Well, like I said, I hope he comes back again some day.

[TanteStefana2]

This seems current. Is it "our" chaeplin? https://github.com/chaeplin

If only it were!  Wouldn't that be nice?  But somehow the puppy doesn't feel right?  Maybe his daughter?  It's certainly a clue, can we contact that person through git?

[GhostPlayer]

I don't think any of us think it's a humorous subject.  I think we were expressing our loss, and wish that he'd come back.  I must say that I'm kind of glad to hear he was from SK, as that is a fine country to live in, but I fear that probably means he is probably gone.  He seems too young in that picture to die, but?  Of course I hope I'm wrong, but I also don't think he'd just disappear like that otherwise.  Friends and family have no way to know how to log into forums to let friends know what happened, so.  Well, like I said, I hope he comes back again some day.

 Talking about the milk carton thing, touched a wound of mine... I really got pissed off he just vanished  

[IthinkSo]

This seems current. Is it "our" chaeplin? https://github.com/chaeplin

If only it were!  Wouldn't that be nice?  But somehow the puppy doesn't feel right?  Maybe his daughter?  It's certainly a clue, can we contact that person through git?

That used to be his github profile. Anyway. The sigpic has been changed, though. But some followers persist still :/

[TanteStefana2]

I don't think any of us think it's a humorous subject.  I think we were expressing our loss, and wish that he'd come back.  I must say that I'm kind of glad to hear he was from SK, as that is a fine country to live in, but I fear that probably means he is probably gone.  He seems too young in that picture to die, but?  Of course I hope I'm wrong, but I also don't think he'd just disappear like that otherwise.  Friends and family have no way to know how to log into forums to let friends know what happened, so.  Well, like I said, I hope he comes back again some day.

 Talking about the milk carton thing, touched a wound of mine... I really got pissed off he just vanished  

I doubt he vanished on purpose.  Lots of people die every day.  Car accidents, illness, etc... It's gut wrenching to lose someone like that.  And I honestly hope he disappeared for some other reason (like he was obsessed and his wife told him to stop or else).  'cause he just was too awesome for the world to lose!

[GhostPlayer]

This seems current. Is it "our" chaeplin? https://github.com/chaeplin

If only it were!  Wouldn't that be nice?  But somehow the puppy doesn't feel right?  Maybe his daughter?  It's certainly a clue, can we contact that person through git?

 Holy moly! It actually does seem it's him! I see Xcoin and p2pool-drk repos in there.
Recent activity from May onwards too... coincidence? question is, account taken over, or "our" chaeplin ?
 Git nerds, please unite. I just need something written by him in plain english and I think I'd be able to tell

 How can one contact someone through the hub? We must let him know there is much love for him around these parts, at least a word from him would be nice.

[TheDasher]

Question:

When I tie up 1000 coins in a node how long does it take to stop the node and withdraw my coin?

The 1000 coins are just sitting in your local wallet, or in a cold wallet of your choosing (in a single address). No coins actually sit on the masternode itself or are locked in any way. Spending the coins is exactly the same as any other coins you hold. If you spend all or a portion of the 1000 coins the masternode simply stops being active and you will no longer receive payments. You can reactivate it at any time by sending 1000 coins to a new address and updating the config.

<nitpicky slight correction>

The 1000 DASH are not sitting in your wallet per se.  They are an unspent output of a prior transaction.  That means that the 1000 DASH are sitting out there on the network waiting for you.  By using your private key, you can send them to another address at any time, like if you want to trade DASH for goods or services.  You can buy a pizza and a six pack of beer for example.

When you set up a masternode, it verifies that the 1000 DASH are still where you said they would be.  If you transfer any part of that 1000 somewhere else, the 1000 are not still intact.  The masternode will go offline at that point.

The original choice of the term "wallet", while easy for end users to understand is not quite accurate.  A much better choice of term is "keyring".  It is a thing that holds your keys.  You can have a spare set of keys to your car or your DASH sitting in your drawer at home.  




Strictly speaking, a wallet doesn't hold any funds.  It holds your public and private keys.  Maybe in the next "evolution", we can fix this misunderstanding.  

</nitpicky slight correction>

In other words these coins used for a masternode are vulnerable to being stolen.  They cannot be placed in a cold wallet for safe keeping.