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Author Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency  (Read 9723501 times)
dafdaf
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February 16, 2021, 05:54:17 PM

What a fall for a member that many of us looked up too...

+1

Tok's problem: he is too smart to admit that crypto markets are 80% made of pure dumbness. That's the main reason why there are so many crappy coins above Dash in the sacrosanct rankings. Nobody among the usual investors care about mining hash rates or whatever else, they only care about dog memes and “number go up” — period.
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February 16, 2021, 07:57:10 PM
Last edit: February 16, 2021, 08:15:56 PM by toknormal


The numbers always have their say in the end.

Sure there are pump & dumps and crapcoins popping up like mushrooms after a rainshower but the reason we've been going in the wrong direction for 3 years despite boasting features and useability performance galore is simple math.

You need to see mining as a market. Forget about the word "mining". It's a market where buyers compete for the supply, that's all. Having the protocol issue coin at $0 undermines the price of the paid for ("mined") half of that market.
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February 16, 2021, 09:25:29 PM


No wonder you wallow in your misery. I purchased DASH with fiat... it seems you sold BTC for DASH at an unfavorable ratio.

I'm not anti-Dash. I'm pro-optimising its protocol so it doesn't keep losing marketcap to any random competitor that happens to mine its full supply and not give half of it away at zero-difficulty.


You are extremely negative here, at least for the last 8 months. That's how you come across to me anyways.

Check out the Litecoin thread... a fully mined coin, and someone there in despair how LTC has lost sat value over the last 7 years too. Now, how can that be if LTC has the correct mining ratio that DASH needs?


The ridiculous argument that "mining" is what creates value to a coin... doesn't hold water,  only 11 coins in the top 50 are even minable for christ sake

Hey, you're the one with the explaining to do, not me Wink


Now why is it up to everyone but you to explain? Why do you dismiss any argument by simply repeating the same message? I say it's about time you come up with a sound rebuttal to all the counter-arguments.

You seem to have 2 parts to your argument.

1) DASH is falling down in the ranks because 50% of the coins are given away for "free" to masternode owners who mine at 0% difficulty.

To this I and others have observed that the majority of coins higher than DASH give 100% of their coins away for "free" via staking/delegation rewards. DOGE, which you have praised here a number of times, is 95% given away for "free" to LTC miners.

2) DASH falling down in the ranks on CMC is proof of your point in 1). Further to that you seem adamant that when DASH starts moving up in ranks it doesn't show any evidence against your theory in your point 1)

To this I've pointed out many times this is circumstantial evidence at best. Your argument seems to involve circular logic. I invited you to learn some basic TA which largely predicts price cycles based on human psychology (fear and greed).

What a fall for a member that many of us looked up too...

+1

Tok's problem: he is too smart to admit that crypto markets are 80% made of pure dumbness. That's the main reason why there are so many crappy coins above Dash in the sacrosanct rankings. Nobody among the usual investors care about mining hash rates or whatever else, they only care about dog memes and “number go up” — period.

I've always found it so curious how many here are so beholden to toknormal when his recent behavior has at best been troll-like and exhausting to the point of ad nauseum.

Sure there are pump & dumps and crapcoins popping up like mushrooms after a rainshower but the reason we've been going in the wrong direction for 3 years despite boasting features and useability performance galore is simple math.

And then there's the constant back-handed insulting comments. Sure, no one can figure out this "simple math" except you.
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February 16, 2021, 09:43:55 PM
Last edit: February 16, 2021, 10:10:21 PM by toknormal


To this I and others have observed that the majority of coins higher than DASH give 100% of their coins away for "free" via staking/delegation rewards

I've explained this many times. POS coins have an on-chain "sink". It's a completely different monetary model from Dash. A different basis for value. You can't compare the rewards from staking on a smart-contract chain with diverting half the mining supply to existing holders.

I also challenged the basis for Dash's current protocol as presented last year. I indicated that this basis was flawed. Miners are not net sellers, they are "brokers". Nobody even addressed this. It's a huge hole in the reasoning.

So I am only "appearing" to be negative. The issues are there and they are reflected in ranking. I'm sure there are plenty of holders with their heads not in the clouds wondering why Dash's feature advantages over LTC, XMR, BSV, DOGE etc result in no ranking advantage whatsoever. The explanation for this I've presented is consistent and reasoned. Competing explanations offered up here amount to no more than shoulder shrugging, "it's the stupid markets". I don't think that's very satisfactory.
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February 16, 2021, 09:48:37 PM

DASH is still alive. I glad to see it. Developers claims himself like a absolute decentralized system. Okay, Its a nice, but what about mass adaption? Does it work?
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February 16, 2021, 10:44:49 PM

DASH is still alive. I glad to see it. Developers claims himself like a absolute decentralized system. Okay, Its a nice, but what about mass adaption? Does it work?

Yes, it works. One of the fastest (1-2 sec) for sending and receiving with fees still very low (< 1 cent).

Daily transaction count and unique address use continues to increase. Check out https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/dash-transactions.html#log

Dash Platform and DashPay on testnet.
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February 16, 2021, 10:50:49 PM


Huh

Jesus...what is wrong with you?!?  Its unbelievable the lengths you will go to to contort shit.  You know better then ANY OTHER person here what moves markets and how the rankings have come to be the way they are.  

You are now on the verge of not only misleading...but out right lying and misrepresenting the real facts of how coin valuations are derived.

This then begs the question, what is your motive.  Months and months of complete dishonesty with a community that held you in high esteem.  Dishonest because you DO know why DASH's price has been till now subverted.  You have been here since near the beginning...and know the players and the reasons to why we have been stomped on.  And it, as you know, has NOTHING to do with some bullshit tokenomics mining crap.

Now...members of this community need to ask...what is your agenda, truly?  Why are you pushing this fallacy and what is your game?

Maybe...and I'd hate to think this, its simply that you need attention, or is it simply the actions of a troll?

I somehow think there is more to this whole dialogue you are pushing...and it will come out one day.  For now...members of this community have wasted enough time on your rubbish.  I'd recommend we move on to other more important topics like asking our favorite exchanges to enable IS with 0 or 1 conf.

That is far more productive then wasting over a year of this tokenomics rubbish.
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February 16, 2021, 11:02:14 PM

I've explained this many times.

I think that's the problem. After repeating the same thing literally hundreds of times, you never stopped to consider whether the issues you believe to be outstanding have actually been baked into the price since Day 1 of the DASH masternode system.

You should have realized a long time ago your words have zero effect on the course of DASH development, and if you were serious you would bring them up to people who actually have influence over the protocol rather than repeating yourself ad nauseum here... don't understand what it is you think you're accomplishing other than banging your head against the wall.

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February 17, 2021, 01:03:33 AM

Well what he accomplished was to drive this thread in to the gutter.

qwizzie was a model member for this forum, always helping out in this thread and contributing in a fantastic way but since the trolls arrived they flooded the thread with nonsense. qwizzie worked so hard to maintain it and kept it updated with the latest news but he walked away from here citing the trolls and sock-puppets that infested this thread as the reason: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg56270697#msg56270697

More than one user (me being one) has recently asked him to just go and fork Dash then start his own ANN thread but as always he has answers to stay in this thread but those answers defeat the object of every claim and allegation he made beforehand ....  Roll Eyes



I've explained this many times.

I think that's the problem. After repeating the same thing literally hundreds of times, you never stopped to consider whether the issues you believe to be outstanding have actually been baked into the price since Day 1 of the DASH masternode system.

You should have realized a long time ago your words have zero effect on the course of DASH development, and if you were serious you would bring them up to people who actually have influence over the protocol rather than repeating yourself ad nauseum here... don't understand what it is you think you're accomplishing other than banging your head against the wall.

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February 17, 2021, 05:19:06 AM


Tok, would you agree that one thing we could do that would improve the situation slightly is to reduce the collateral requirement for running a masternode to 250 DASH

The core issue is we have 2 markets and we have to compete in both. Ryan's analysis was incomplete. Miners are not sellers, they are brokers. They only make TINY profits because they are BUYERS of Dash at the most commercially critical point - the new supply.

OK Tok, let's work though this, so miners are buyers of DASH from the blockchain.  You reason that because miners have bought equipment and have ongoing costs in electricity and rent and wages that this expenditure is the same as 'buying' DASH out of the blockchain.  The place where we fall over is I and Ryan and the community are seeing this as cost to the network, but you see it as investment.  Correct me if I am wrong.

So moving forward, the miner 'buys' DASH from the blockchain at his costs.  I get that, he now holds DASH.  He pays his bills.  Now, what comes next?  Above you said he only makes tiny profits, so I assume you mean he goes to exchange and places a limit sell that is X% above his costs and waits for it to fill?  He does not sell below costs, because this is a model and that would be foolish right?

Couple of things here, in an ideal world, that might hold true, however, have you ever heard of 'miner capitulation' ?  This is when unprofitable miners sell stock for a loss to at least recoup some money, it tends to happen in corrections or a bear market.  How might that affect your perfect model?

Also, have you considered that the difficulty is not static, it will increase and decrease over time effectively making it cheaper or more expensive to mine, so if miners can't get the price they were after and start selling for less (they have to sell, they have bills to pay) then the difficulty goes down, in order to give new miners a shot at turning a profit.

The idea that miners only sell for a perfect profit seems wrong to me, in fact, I see miners passing on the costs of their operation because they are forced sellers on the market that matters most to us (and them) the exchanges.

The daily cost of electricity and rent and wages and mining hardware are absolutely born by the incoming investors into a POW coin like DASH.  In your order with your creative accounting, you flip the sign on a loss to a profit, financial alchemy!  Who do you think is ultimately paying for the miner's bills?

Now for everyone else, don't get me wrong, I am POW maximalist, I believe it is the best way to secure and decentralise a blockchain and worth the cost, however, I strongly believe the cost should match the value and I see the law of diminishing returns applies here, if DASH is secured by mining to  99.99999% chance it will never have a double spend, but adding another 9 implies we need to 100X our costs, which it does, then I don't consider that worth the extra expense.
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February 17, 2021, 03:36:14 PM
Last edit: February 17, 2021, 06:36:42 PM by toknormal


The place where we fall over is I and Ryan and the community are seeing this as cost to the network, but you see it as investment.  Correct me if I am wrong.

Exactly.

If hashrate was really a "cost" to the network such that any reduction in this "cost" made the network more efficient in a way that fed through to value, don't you think we'd have seen that by now ? We should have skyrocketed above litecoin eons ago with such an advantage.

The reason we haven't is because that whole characterisation was extremely faulty.

Ryan characterised it as one would a business with costs of production. He said the "miners are our contractors and they're costing "us" too much". Notice the consistent use of the first person pronoun throughout those characterisations without any specific definition of who "we" is. It's a casual projection of a contracting entity from the corporate world onto a blockchain model which is completely un-instructive since they're nothing like each other. At best the analogue is philosophical. At worst, such an analogue is dangerous because if you use it you arrive at the opposite conclusion of what priorities should be ideally followed in configuring the blockchain protocol.

We are not a "coin producing factory" trying to produce coins as cheaply as possible and hashrate is not an "overhead".

To see why, lets go right back to the Satoshi mining model. Lets for a moment forget about secondary markets (where coins change hands AFTER they've been initially acquired) and focus on how the ongoing emission is bought. The Satoshi mining model is very clever because it's a trustless market. No fiat needs to change hands, no trusted "Coinbase" counterparty is needed to broker the exchange. The market is trustless with its own price discovery mechanism where mining difficulty represents the current "price" of acquisition since it responds dynamically to competing bids for the new supply. If the primary market was trusted instead of trustless then we'd be using dollars instead of hashrate but the blockchain protocol doesn't understand dollars so it has to be converted into a medium that it "recognises" and that can vary according to demand like an exchange orderbook would.

TERMINOLOGY: COST vs PRICE

Let us now also clarify two important terms that are always getting conflated: PRICE and COST are effectively the same thing. Price is simply COST/PER UNIT. So if I contract 5 people to dig a 10 metre ditch and it cost me $1000, then the price per metre of digging that ditch was $100. The price per hire was $200. I can slice it any way I want to do determine a price but it all stems from dividing the cost by the number of units I want to price. If I buy a tube of toothpaste, someone can say "how much did it cost" ? I say $3. Because the price is the cost in that case as there were no hidden extras. By comparison, the the price of acquisition at any given moment in the primary market for coin emission is given by (cost of mining/coins mined).

PRICE BY ASSOCIATION

Now Dash issues part of its supply at zero cost to the initial holder. It is distinct as a mined coin in this respect because only part of its supply is "bought" in the primary market and the rest is simply "issued". Note that it is not issued to pay for anything, it's simply a free gift to masternode holders for the most part which is why in capital flow models, a masternode can be characterised as a zero-difficulty miner. Instead of buying mining equipment, just buy a masternode and you get to mine at zero difficulty. The reward is the same - Dash for mining and Dash for running a masternode.

So the blockchain "issue price" for masternode rewards is zero. But then those rewards may be sold into secondary markets (where supply is bought form existing holders). Here the coin only has a price by association with the rest of the supply that was mined. The seller in this case paid zero for the supply so can afford to sell for any price above zero. There are 3 reasons why this is corrosive for the long term marketcap:

1. if a miner sells below price at acquisition, the miner takes the loss, not the network (because the miner had to purchase directly from the primary market and "invested" in that market to the extent of supporting the price at acquisition). On the other hand, if a masternode sells reward below price at acquisition, then the network takes the loss (as net reduction in marketcap). The masternode is still at a profit

2. a full half of the coin supply does not benefit from high difficulty. What this means that as price rises, an increasing tension is created between two halves of the coin supply where one half is at enormous profit and the other (the mined half) isn't. (This is why variable difficulty was invented in the first place. To keep profitability scaleable as price rises so the price doesn't collapse down to zero in a profit-take).

3. if we simply do a straight valuation of the primary market emission price then we have to take into account ALL the coin supply, not just half of it. So for, say the next 100 coins to be issued, roughly 50 will be mined at a cost of ~ $200 each and 50 "issued" at a cost of $0 each to the initial holder (the masternode rewards). So the evaluation comes out at $10,000 which is 50% below the projected valuation based on market price. Any realisation of that value causes loss of capital out of the chain since it manifests as pure profit for masternode holders instead of higher difficulty ("price") in the primary market which would be the case in a fully mined coin. (This is how that theoretical undervaluation slowly feeds through to real exchange prices IMO)


POINTS MADE ABOUT POS CHAINS

Some responders above seem to take the view that the blockchain's purpose is just to get the coins "out there". Who cares how they get there, what matters is the amount of hype and hand waving you do after that to pump the price. I'm afraid I most definitely do not subscribe to this point of view. These things are far more nuanced and subject (in the longer term) to fundamental capital flow characteristics than that IMO.

In particular, smart contract chains aren't comparable with the mining model because they're a service platform. That service platform hosts on-chain dapps that consum token supply as it "froths up" from the staking system. The "froth" as I tend to think of it is assigned to existing holders by the staking system and then the burning of supply by dapps completes the cycle. So work is done by the token which serves as "fuel" for the dapps.

A mined coin on the other hand is a scarcity analogue. The "work done" here is in enforcing scarcity to a measurable value (signalled by the cost of effort required to extract the next block from the chain). You can't say that because POS chains "give away tokens" then it's ok for Dash to do it. That's just lazy, un thought-through reasoning IMO. Even in a bank you don't get interest for just having a deposit there. The interest accrues from some economic activity that the deposit was invested in.

Masternodes are potentially an immensely powerful dimension to Dash because they allow us to maintain a highly competitive mining model WHILE making the coin much more useable than bitcoin. My contention is that this advantage is being wasted because we've reversed the logic of prioritising the reward ratio correctly and are therefore losing large amounts of budget that would otherwise be preserved in boosting capital gain and propelling us back to where we should be according to our feature set and market profile.
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February 17, 2021, 05:09:42 PM

Dash Investment Foundation Invests in Quadency Crypto Trading and Automation Platform
https://newsroom.dash.org/128134-dash-investment-foundation-invests-in-quadency-crypto-trading-and-automation-platform


The Dash Investment Foundation (DIF) and Quadency are excited to confirm the completion of the DIF's investment in Quadency's seed funding round. The Dash network approved of the proposed investment in the November 2020 proposal cycle, and the DIF recently completed the investment on behalf of the network.

Quadency produces state of the art automated trading tools with algorithms to suit nearly any trading strategy. In the past year, Quadency has experienced a faster than anticipated growth in retail as well as institutional investor signups and use, leading to a need to scale rapidly. As part of their efforts to raise funds, the Dash Investment Foundation, the world’s first ownerless and memberless investment fund, stepped in to invest in Quadency on behalf of the Dash network.

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February 17, 2021, 07:18:54 PM

If hashrate was really a "cost" to the network such that any reduction in this "cost" made the network more efficient in a way that fed through to value, don't you think we'd have seen that by now ?

Regarding changing the mining reward percentage, the only thing I have ever argued was that the change implemented was minor and so gradual that if it has any effect we won't see it for years.

We should have skyrocketed above litecoin eons ago with such an advantage.

We will, don't worry.

But in the meantime why don't you answer why, LTC with it's 100% mining, is also hovering around it's ATL vs BTC.

POINTS MADE ABOUT POS CHAINS

Some responders above seem to take the view that the blockchain's purpose is just to get the coins "out there". Who cares how they get there, what matters is the amount of hype and hand waving you do after that to pump the price. I'm afraid I most definitely do not subscribe to this point of view. These things are far more nuanced and subject (in the longer term) to fundamental capital flow characteristics than that IMO.

Seriously now, who made this argument here? I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt (over and over again) but you continue to "debate" using straw man arguments. A straw man is when you misrepresent someone's position as something other than what it was and then you argue against this fake position and then claim victory.

Please stop doing that. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are not doing it on purpose but now that I've pointed it out please just stop.

In particular, smart contract chains aren't comparable with the mining model because they're a service platform. That service platform hosts on-chain dapps that consum token supply as it "froths up" from the staking system. The "froth" as I tend to think of it is assigned to existing holders by the staking system and then the burning of supply by dapps completes the cycle. So work is done by the token which serves as "fuel" for the dapps.

The only smart contract coin that has enough dapp use to consume token supply is ETH which also happens to be 100% POW mined.

So, this doesn't explain why these POS smart contract chains are ahead of DASH in the CMC rankings.

Also, once Dash Platform is released, DASH will also be a service chain. Not as a smart-contract chain but as a smart-data chain. These services will need to be paid for as well.

A mined coin on the other hand is a scarcity analogue. The "work done" here is in enforcing scarcity to a measurable value (signalled by the cost of effort required to extract the next block from the chain). You can't say that because POS chains "give away tokens" then it's ok for Dash to do it. That's just lazy, un thought-through reasoning IMO. Even in a bank you don't get interest for just having a deposit there. The interest accrues from some economic activity that the deposit was invested in.

Again, I never said POS chains just "give away tokens". You said DASH gives away 50% of its coins for "free". I used your logic and applied it to POS chains and asked you to explain that given your position on DASH's masternode rewards, how do you explain how POS chains don't "give away" 100% of their coins. You said dapp use yet they have so little of this it certainly doesn't offset these staking/delegation rewards.
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February 17, 2021, 09:30:44 PM
Last edit: February 18, 2021, 07:44:16 AM by toknormal


Again, I never said POS chains just "give away tokens". You said DASH gives away 50% of its coins for "free". I used your logic and applied it to POS chains and asked you to explain that given your position on DASH's masternode rewards, how do you explain how POS chains don't "give away" 100% of their coins. You said dapp use yet they have so little of this it certainly doesn't offset these staking/delegation rewards.

Ok, lets look at this another way.

It isn't me that's needing to defend anything here. According to the analysis I presented (and started expressing over a year ago) we should be losing marketcap ranking against 100% mined coins, all else being equal and that is exactly what's happened.

According to the orthodoxy perspective, "we don't need" the hashrate that other coins have and our reduced mining reward should be GAINING us marketcap ranking, even before the last protocol change. In other words making us more competitive, not less. The market has been at liberty to price that in for a year and hasn't. It has favoured our competitors even if they have zip features.

Yet the only explanation you can offer for this is "it isn't our time" or similar. Do you realise how slightly paultry this is as an investment offering - specially long term ? You're basically saying that all Dash's distinction - technical, mining ratio, treasury, masternodes - counts for nothing and we just have to wait to be swept up by the tide.

Too many things don't fit here. As an example, when Ryan presented the 10% reward ratio change as his "solution" to Dash's store of value problem, he said that we didn't need all this hashrate but we DID need to be the highest hashrate coin in the "masternode sector". So we don't need it but we do need it. Even according to his view, hashrate IS competitive in a subset of the market but not in the broader market. Why did no-one question this ? That type of unresolved ambiguity is a signal that something is fundamentally wrong about the basic thinking and there are plenty more of those examples, not least that the approach is losing us market share, that we attract far more statutory selling pressure than any other coin (due to extreme network operation margins), that we can't hold a line against bitcoin etc.

I don't think anyone on here is in any position to dismiss any explanation that purports to address these issues, even though they may come across as counter-intuitive at first.
aleix
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February 19, 2021, 11:33:29 AM



Ryan Taylor, Dash Core Group CEO will be doing a live AMA on Friday 19th February at 11AM EST / 4PM UTC.
https://twitter.com/dashpay/status/1362484883881353224?s=21

The AMA will be broadcasted live on the official @Dashpay social media: YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn accounts.
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February 19, 2021, 09:24:03 PM

It's gone quiet in here.

Meanwhile ...



It's encouraging to see some decent first moves of recovery on the Dash/BTC ratio as well.
Gatorelf
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February 20, 2021, 12:03:04 AM

It's gone quiet in here.

Meanwhile ...



It's encouraging to see some decent first moves of recovery on the Dash/BTC ratio as well.

lol I noticed
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February 21, 2021, 05:01:26 AM

agghhh.  I wish we could just "BLOCK" him and get on with other discussions.  One positive though...he is single handedly pushing up the page count on this DASH forum.  LOL.  Tongue
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February 21, 2021, 01:43:59 PM
Last edit: November 26, 2021, 12:42:22 PM by mprep


qwizzie was a model member for this forum,

Qwizzie a model member! Hahahaha Yeh good one.
Always belittle your reputation instead of actually debating. Or change the subject. Or threaten with ignore. Or thank for boosting page count. Anything but debate. He call the bottom all the way down a years long bear market. The kindest thing i can say about him is deluded. .

agghhh.  I wish we could just "BLOCK" him and get on with other discussions.  One positive though...he is single handedly pushing up the page count on this DASH forum.  LOL.  Tongue

You can put him on ignore and then not peek.



Dash vs Bitcoin

Dash still in a multi year bear channel has been testing both extremes of this channel in recent months. Great volatility if you are trading. Recent bull moves hopeful for Dash holders. 

chart

Can Dash finally break out above the bear channel ?

Heres a closer look

chart

You might notice Dash is currently battling to stay above a blue line on my chart, this is a key area of resistance/support which used to mark the low point on the DashBTC ratio until Dash fell below it.

In my opinion a correction is more likely here than another push up through maybe Dash will consolidate somewhere above 0.0036 before its next push which will be in the region where the midline of that channel is.

In my opinion toknormal's arguments are legit. Bigrcanada, a bit like qwizzie like to attack reputation and motives instead of debate. Debate they know they can't win.

Still I'm happy to see Dash finally looking more bullish for a change. When Dash does break up out of that multi year bear channel we might even see a short bull market against bitcoin! Until the constant supply of zero difficulty mined coins drags dash back down again. Like an anchor.


[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]
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February 21, 2021, 02:39:42 PM

In my opinion toknormal's arguments are legit. Bigrcanada, a bit like qwizzie like to attack reputation and motives instead of debate. Debate they know they can't win.

And to me toknormal has done very little but regurgitate his same message over and over again, ignoring and dodging most questions put to his theory while at the same time putting down and ridiculing anyone who disagrees with him. There's been very little debate, just an angry man shouting louder and posting more than anyone else. After all, as he stated, it's not him that needs to defend his stance. How do you imagine that with a mentality like that, that a debate can even be had?

I have no issue with his arguments or position in that everyone can have an opinion and is free to express it. But I mostly disagree with the nature and magnitude he ascribes to the problem and the way he communicates it, which is extremely off putting and offensive.

Still I'm happy to see Dash finally looking more bullish for a change. When Dash does break up out of that multi year bear channel we might even see a short bull market against bitcoin!

If Bitcoin rises and tops out too fast it could be devastating for all alts. In some ways the BTC chart looks eerily similar to early Nov 2017. If it were to play out the same, BTC would roar up to $100K by end of March and the bubble would likely pop. Alts might rally in April but the party might be over way too soon for most. The only positive for this scenario is that maybe a short bull market would be followed by a short bear market and maybe BTC/alts rebound by the end of the year.

But I still believe (and hope) we're more likely to see a more gradual growth (for crypto anyway) and BTC will top out in the mid-$100K sometime from August to October. This would give alts like DASH enough time to enter bull markets against BTC sometime in March/April and most likely pass their previous ATH's.

Just be prepared for either scenario (and try to take profit when you can).
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