[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[eltito]

Another possible improvement would be to have an option to send the change to a different address, so one could send their change to a completely different wallet, to avoid accidentally mixing it, although their transaction could still be worked out by process of elimination if the other transactions mixed with theirs weren't done as carefully.

If I'm not mistaken, darksend already does this by default.

[1714993031]

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[fusecavator]

Another possible improvement would be to have an option to send the change to a different address, so one could send their change to a completely different wallet, to avoid accidentally mixing it, although their transaction could still be worked out by process of elimination if the other transactions mixed with theirs weren't done as carefully.

If I'm not mistaken, darksend already does this by default.

darksend does send the change to a new address, but that new address is part of the same wallet, which is what opens up what I posted about. What I meant by that quote was having a spot to specify an address to send the change to instead of the current behavior, so that it would end up in a different wallet completely.

[HammerHedd]

p2pool block found is anounced to irc.freenode.net #p2pool-drk

Will we need to re-compile, or just include --irc-announce in the command line?
Is this going romake dark send dependent on a freenode bot in a public channel?

No, this is a function of P2Pool. When a node (or maybe the whole pool?) finds a block, it announces is in irc.freenode.net #p2pool-drk. DarkSend is completely independent of the mining process.

[eduffield]

It seems to me that with the current darksend/denominate implementation it is dangerous to just dump the change from a darksend back into the wallet and use it with the rest of the balance. See the following chart for an example:



In this chart, either or both denominates could be non-dark sends, although it is most likely that the first will be denominate. Denominate is very easy to identify as it uses the same adress for all outputs, and has powers of 10 as most output amounts. As it is trying to refigure the balence and it is easy to identify, it is very effective at showing that one person owns all of the addresses involved, potentially tying together a large amount of addresses. At some point after a darksend, the change address will most likely be included in a denominate or non-dark send with other addresses. If the change address can be linked to one of the inputs to the darksend, the intended output can usually be worked out, as there generally will only be one possible output.

This could largely be fixed by pooling denominates and having each denominate output go to a different address. Another possible improvement would be to have an option to send the change to a different address, so one could send their change to a completely different wallet, to avoid accidentally mixing it, although their transaction could still be worked out by process of elimination if the other transactions mixed with theirs weren't done as carefully.

I was actually thinking about this the other day. Eventually we could have "denominating pools", they would function exactly as DarkSend pools do except the inputs would be change and the outputs would all be powers of ten.

[jl777]

It seems to me that with the current darksend/denominate implementation it is dangerous to just dump the change from a darksend back into the wallet and use it with the rest of the balance. See the following chart for an example:



In this chart, either or both denominates could be non-dark sends, although it is most likely that the first will be denominate. Denominate is very easy to identify as it uses the same adress for all outputs, and has powers of 10 as most output amounts. As it is trying to refigure the balence and it is easy to identify, it is very effective at showing that one person owns all of the addresses involved, potentially tying together a large amount of addresses. At some point after a darksend, the change address will most likely be included in a denominate or non-dark send with other addresses. If the change address can be linked to one of the inputs to the darksend, the intended output can usually be worked out, as there generally will only be one possible output.

This could largely be fixed by pooling denominates and having each denominate output go to a different address. Another possible improvement would be to have an option to send the change to a different address, so one could send their change to a completely different wallet, to avoid accidentally mixing it, although their transaction could still be worked out by process of elimination if the other transactions mixed with theirs weren't done as carefully.

without encryption, a determined attacker can extract at least partial information from every darksend. Even with encryption you still have to worry about timing attacks and knapsacking attacks. Over time higher and higher probabilities will be obtained. However, this is not something an ordinary person would have to worry about.

I also think it is what makes DRK a very good investment.

There is no need to fear the really bad elements will gravitate to DRK. it is not effective enough. So no need to worry about all the bad peoples creating troubles. DRK is the coin that provides anonymity for the ordinary people. So you dont have to worry about your neighbors snooping on your finances. So people wont find out about stuff they have no business finding out about!

It is our lives and we deserve some privacy dont we? When did we agree to have cameras track us using automatic facial detection and correlating all our credit card spending? When did cash stop being "legal tender for all debts public and private"?

I dont remember giving anybody permission to do that. Yet they are.

I am most worried about an XCP incident: https://poloniex.com/correspondence.pdf

XCP used multisig in fancy and clever ways (DRK uses multisig in fancy and clever ways) and there was a bug that the white hat found. I highly suggest we hire this guy for a full source code review!

James

[iwantcoins]

If anyone is looking for a nice How to Guide on Mining DarkCoin, either with a CPU or GPU then check this nice Step by Step Guide out...

http://www.reviewoutlaw.com/how-to-mine-darkcoin-gui-friendly-simple-way-mining-dark-coin/

http://i2.wp.com/www.reviewoutlaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/darkcoin_logo-300x300.png?resize=150%2C150

[vleroybrown]

XCP used multisig in fancy and clever ways (DRK uses multisig in fancy and clever ways) and there was a bug that the white hat found. I highly suggest we hire this guy for a full source code review!

James

Did this anon ever return the 150 btc to poloniex?  The site does have a credit system going for missing btc right?  If he flaked out on his stated intentions of good will to the xcp community you surely wouldn't consider his assistance a worthwhile investment for the darkcoin community.

[jl777]

XCP used multisig in fancy and clever ways (DRK uses multisig in fancy and clever ways) and there was a bug that the white hat found. I highly suggest we hire this guy for a full source code review!

James

Did this anon ever return the 150 btc to poloniex?  The site does have a credit system going for missing btc right?  If he flaked out on his stated intentions of good will to the xcp community you surely wouldn't consider his assistance a worthwhile investment for the darkcoin community.

White hat returned all the funds

The current poloniex BTC thing is totally different. There was a bug with the withdraw logic. If you had valid amounts in your account and clicked really fast on the withdraw button, you got paid multiple times for the same withdraw. Something like 12% of BTC was stolen this way by unknown hacker

Then there was the c-cex BTC caper with DRK involvement that got Poloniex involved.

Three different poloniex events in about a 10 day timeframe. Poor busoni, amazing he kept it all together.

James

[vleroybrown]

White hat returned all the funds

The current poloniex BTC thing is totally different. There was a bug with the withdraw logic. If you had valid amounts in your account and clicked really fast on the withdraw button, you got paid multiple times for the same withdraw. Something like 12% of BTC was stolen this way by unknown hacker

Then there was the c-cex BTC caper with DRK involvement that got Poloniex involved.

Three different poloniex events in about a 10 day timeframe. Poor busoni, amazing he kept it all together.

James

Well hell, hats off to a soul who in a economical situation as deary as he describes would not rationalize the spoils of said exploit to be fair to hold.  As for the rest of the scamming fucks out there, karma gonna catch ya, especially when security is run by a hero like this one.  Where is the bounty link already?

[jl777]

eduffield

Please dont misunderstand what I am saying. You are doing great work no doubt of that!

I have seen some concerns here about DRK really going to the bad side of things and I think it is good that it isnt 100% anonymous. Like you said 99.9% effective. That is definitely good enough for the mass market.

It is nearly impossible to create a 100% anonymous solution short of combining a mixing layer with a zeroknowledge layer and a lot of other stuff. This is why it does not exist yet, except the TLA's have their own version of course.

DRK is NOT about allowing people to break the law. It is about giving people back their privacy that has been slowly eroded by tech.

While I am active in the NXT community, I strongly feel that the world needs a replacement for cash. It is disappearing and bitcoin is a zillion times worse. I am currently working on a multisig based gateway for NXT AE and I will be supporting DRK as one of the assets. I think if we did a bit of cooperation (not sure of details), we can create a pretty simple way for people to get to 99.5% anonymity.

Send DRK to the NXT AE gateway, it goes in, gets combined with all DRK assets and it comes out. With NXT assets (and NXT itself) it has no inputs and outputs. There is no historical txout to txin, so once it goes into a shared account, everything becomes fungible. This still doesnt get around the really sophisticated attacks, but now nosy nellie needs to delve into two different blockchains to have a chance to figure anything out.

Another possibility would be to send DRK into the NXT AE and then zap it out in the form of BTC. This would allow using DRK to purchase anything that can be purchased with BTC. There would be conversion fees, but much better to have the option of using DRK for any bitcoin purchase. I think that cleanly solves the "what can we actually buy with DRK" question with the answer "Anything that you can buy with BTC"

James

P.S. I hope you can find the white hat guy, he is probably not so easy to find. Maybe busoni will help you get in touch. The white hat is amazing! He is in Brazil and read the XCP source code on the bus during his commute and found several problems including the biggie.

[jl777]

Well hell, hats off to a soul who in a economical situation as deary as he describes would not rationalize the spoils of said exploit to be fair to hold.  As for the rest of the scamming fucks out there, karma gonna catch ya, especially when security is run by a hero like this one.  Where is the bounty link already?

Yes definitely very honorable guy. I think he said he worked at a hotel doing menial work of all things. The XCP community had a scare as he didnt return the funds until they actually fixed the bug!

bounty link? not sure what you mean

James

[InternetApe]

In my opinion DRK is one of the most innovative and quality coins. It is one of my absolute favorites and a testament to the cryptocurrency world.

Unfortunately, the price is pretty stagnant, and as a speculator it simply doesn't make sense to buy in.

That said, I just want to congratulate everyone who is a part of DRK, as your work is awesome. I hope to see DRK gain more market share, even if I'm not around to profit from it.

The problem with the stagnant market it we have several bots that are posting tiny buys and sells that are keeping the prices down. They are usually in the 0.1DRK - 0.2DRK range. I have personally been running a bot that has been buying them up and the market has comeup a little bit, but its not having enough impact to stop it. I have personally spent ~$700 this week buying up the the tiny sells. From what we can see they are actually losing money doing this. but its hard to know.

[Kai Proctor]

In my opinion DRK is one of the most innovative and quality coins. It is one of my absolute favorites and a testament to the cryptocurrency world.

Unfortunately, the price is pretty stagnant, and as a speculator it simply doesn't make sense to buy in.

That said, I just want to congratulate everyone who is a part of DRK, as your work is awesome. I hope to see DRK gain more market share, even if I'm not around to profit from it.

You say stagnant, I say stable  . Now there is not much promotion for the coin, yet the value of one unit is close to $1, imagine post marketing / DarkSend's launch. My rig is dedicated to DRK 24/24.

[rasnetworks]

Hi guys I have a new project that will rock the DRK world https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=521677.new#new I am looking for investors and developers to execute my vision. It will have a impact on the downward trend of DRK and improve stability of price across the exchanges.

[jl777]

In my opinion DRK is one of the most innovative and quality coins. It is one of my absolute favorites and a testament to the cryptocurrency world.

Unfortunately, the price is pretty stagnant, and as a speculator it simply doesn't make sense to buy in.

That said, I just want to congratulate everyone who is a part of DRK, as your work is awesome. I hope to see DRK gain more market share, even if I'm not around to profit from it.

The problem with the stagnant market it we have several bots that are posting tiny buys and sells that are keeping the prices down. They are usually in the 0.1DRK - 0.2DRK range. I have personally been running a bot that has been buying them up and the market has comeup a little bit, but its not having enough impact to stop it. I have personally spent ~$700 this week buying up the the tiny sells. From what we can see they are actually losing money doing this. but its hard to know.

Wait!
Are you saying there is a buggy market maker bot running on DRK?
If it is you can turn it into a money pump!
That is exactly what it sounds like. I dont have time for it, but if somebody can figure out it trading algo, you can usually outsmart it with a little human assistance given to a bot. They will either stop the bot or you would be able to "mine" DRK from the bot

James

[eduffield]

eduffield

Please dont misunderstand what I am saying. You are doing great work no doubt of that!

I have seen some concerns here about DRK really going to the bad side of things and I think it is good that it isnt 100% anonymous. Like you said 99.9% effective. That is definitely good enough for the mass market.

It is nearly impossible to create a 100% anonymous solution short of combining a mixing layer with a zeroknowledge layer and a lot of other stuff. This is why it does not exist yet, except the TLA's have their own version of course.

DRK is NOT about allowing people to break the law. It is about giving people back their privacy that has been slowly eroded by tech.

While I am active in the NXT community, I strongly feel that the world needs a replacement for cash. It is disappearing and bitcoin is a zillion times worse. I am currently working on a multisig based gateway for NXT AE and I will be supporting DRK as one of the assets. I think if we did a bit of cooperation (not sure of details), we can create a pretty simple way for people to get to 99.5% anonymity.

Send DRK to the NXT AE gateway, it goes in, gets combined with all DRK assets and it comes out. With NXT assets (and NXT itself) it has no inputs and outputs. There is no historical txout to txin, so once it goes into a shared account, everything becomes fungible. This still doesnt get around the really sophisticated attacks, but now nosy nellie needs to delve into two different blockchains to have a chance to figure anything out.

Another possibility would be to send DRK into the NXT AE and then zap it out in the form of BTC. This would allow using DRK to purchase anything that can be purchased with BTC. There would be conversion fees, but much better to have the option of using DRK for any bitcoin purchase. I think that cleanly solves the "what can we actually buy with DRK" question with the answer "Anything that you can buy with BTC"

James

P.S. I hope you can find the white hat guy, he is probably not so easy to find. Maybe busoni will help you get in touch. The white hat is amazing! He is in Brazil and read the XCP source code on the bus during his commute and found several problems including the biggie.

Oh, I completely agree with what you're saying. DRK isn't about breaking the law or doing illegal things, that wasn't ever the intention. It's about having a blockchain that is anonymous. I believe is the main problem with bitcoin is that it's too transparent. We've fixed that problem, if you send coins through DarkSend they'll be anonymously recorded into the chain.

[chaeplin]

p2pool block found is anounced to irc.freenode.net #p2pool-drk

Will we need to re-compile, or just include --irc-announce in the command line?

If you want another channel, do apt-get install python-twisted-words, --irc-announce, and change networks.py. 


For #p2pool-drk one node is eonogh.

[chaeplin]

To p2pool users who use

http://uswest01.mine.nu:7903/
http://uswest.mine.nu:7903/


Please choose another node closest to you.

darkcoin p2pool node finder is http://darkcoin.mine.nu/


I setup the server for p2pool BOOTSTRAP_ADDRS.
Darkcoin p2pool has at least 18 nodes.
BOOTSTRAP_ADDRS will be updated.

uswest.mine.nu(uswest01.mine.nu) will be down, when current 5 miners change their rig setting.

bump

[AlexGR]

without encryption, a determined attacker can extract at least partial information from every darksend. Even with encryption you still have to worry about timing attacks and knapsacking attacks. Over time higher and higher probabilities will be obtained. However, this is not something an ordinary person would have to worry about.

.....

DRK is the coin that provides anonymity for the ordinary people. So you dont have to worry about your neighbors snooping on your finances. So people wont find out about stuff they have no business finding out about!

Anything that can be done manually can also be automated if it doesn't involve too much human judgement. What I mean by that is that if a determined attacker has a way to tell that A went to B after thorough "investigation" into a transaction, you can't be really certain that this is good enough for the average Joe either. It would seem that it is (using the rationale "ok, who will do this kind of thorough investigation, time after time, for every transaction") but it is not.

As I see it, if the analysis process can be done with a relative degree of confidence, then it's simply a matter of scripting to automate the procedure of understanding one transaction and do it with other transactions. And that will be done without the manual-effort cost concern which would otherwise protect most people, since it will be done automatically.

Once this is done, you'll have the obfuscated blockchain and another site which is running a script and analyzes, in somewhat-realtime (perhaps lagging a few blocks to allow for the mixing to occur), the blockchain transactions for what they really are, rather than their mixing or noise. Imagine the scenario of an alternative block explorer which is de-obfuscating stuff and then assigning a probability percentage for each transaction. If DRK is a smash and it has many transactions, I bet someone will make this kind of "service".

[stealth923]

Hi guys I have a new project that will rock the DRK world https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=521677.new#new I am looking for investors and developers to execute my vision. It will have a impact on the downward trend of DRK and improve stability of price across the exchanges.

Please let us know the details - is it the same as the new BlackCoin pool? We can decide as a community if its something we are willing to support

Thanks.