[NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread

[makoto1337]

If NEM could create a system to transfer small amounts of NEM via SMS that would be the greatest ever.  Just make sure it only works with small amounts etc.  I don't know how other services do it, but if it can be done, then NEM really really needs to consider it.

All this asset exchange type features are not going to do anything for NEM at this point.  NEM needs to start out attacking different markets.  Small payments via SMS would be great.  If you keep the amounts small then it should help mitigate security issues.

How would you define what a "small amount" is? 10,000 NXT might be small to CfB, but it is more NXT than I can afford to buy.

I think a better solution would be for users to have a wallet that just has less money in it and to run that on their phone.

[joywon]

come on, let's work hard. Success is not far away.

[alrose]

I think we need a  global corporate design for Nem
just like https://nxtforum.org/nxt-promotion/a-global-corporate-design/

[nxttycoin]

nem should develop a killer application that everyone can use. Price was officially released not too low.

[patmast3r]

I think we need a  global corporate design for Nem
just like https://nxtforum.org/nxt-promotion/a-global-corporate-design/

already on our list.

[patmast3r]

Some people talk about a cellphone/smartphone wallet. This is indeed the key to succes.  You have to mind that 99% of the worlds population hardly heard of bitcoin nor crypocurrencies and if they did, it was in newsflashes pointing out the volatility.  The big majority of the ones who invested some money in it, did it at the wrong time thus losing their money.  result? No trust...

So, if you want to be accepted as a trustworthy way of transferring money, they need to be sure that the currency they're using doesn't act like some crazed pumo and dump altcoin (+40% today, -70% tomorrow).  That's fun for the daytraders but it scares the hell out of people wanting to buy a burger and noticing they can only afford 1 topping with the same amount of coins a yesterday.

What do you need in order to achieve that?  Be able to make the transfers that quick that you can buy coins for $/€, transfer coins in a split second to whereever you want with the receiver acting the same way (receiving coins/nem/whatever), selling their coins immediately for the same price in $/€.  The only chance of losing anything is in the split second of transfer.  

I'm no technician and don't know if this is realistic but in order to be accepted, you need this kind of stability (and monkey-proof ways of transferring money).

People who believe the currency (in this case: nem) will be worth more tomorrow than today, they just hodl

 Possible? Hope so.  Too much focused on fiat? Welcome to the real world...

The "real world" is what pisses people off. It's what we're trying to change. Imho we need to replace fiat not rely on it for the future.

This is what your are proposing (plz correct me if I'm wrong):

I wan't to buy a burger and exchange my fiat for NEM.
I give those NEM to Squidward at the counter.
Squidward imediatly exchanges those NEM for fiat again.

Why on earth wouldn't we just exchange fiat directly ? In your scenario cryptos don't have any purpose.

Imagine the same scenario but Squidward exchanges his NEM for a different fiat curreny then what I bought my NEM for. That's actually what Ripple is all about and it's a great concept but I don't think it's the main purpose of NEM. Imho we should try to get rid of fiat for good.

[nemcoins]

Now many of the concepts of P2P applications out, but there is no good products.
For example, P2P storage, P2P chat, P2P-mail, P2P exchanges.
NEM should identify one of the applications breakthrough.
Such market valuation will be high, only sought after by investors.
good luck.

[zoata87]

what about payment for premium hosting services like uploaded or share-online?

[alrose]

When the Alpha Release?

[bandar]

The "real world" is what pisses people off. It's what we're trying to change. Imho we need to replace fiat not rely on it for the future.

This is what your are proposing (plz correct me if I'm wrong):

I wan't to buy a burger and exchange my fiat for NEM.
I give those NEM to Squidward at the counter.
Squidward imediatly exchanges those NEM for fiat again.

Why on earth wouldn't we just exchange fiat directly ? In your scenario cryptos don't have any purpose.

Imagine the same scenario but Squidward exchanges his NEM for a different fiat curreny then what I bought my NEM for. That's actually what Ripple is all about and it's a great concept but I don't think it's the main purpose of NEM. Imho we should try to get rid of fiat for good.

I had to be more specific.

I mean you have to have the ABILITY to exchange to fiat instantly.  Let's say you buy something online and you want it to go quick.  You buy/have  NEM, transfer nem to the other party, they have the ABILITY to change it instantly to fiat thus not risking to lose anything due to volatility.

If you want to have NEM, keep NEM and do business in NEM: fine, if you fear of losing money due to volatility: change instantly to fiat.

You say the real world is pissed off, probably  by our governments printing money and creating inflation, right?  That's true to a certain extend, in the middle-long to long term.  The real world doesn't use cryptocurrencies (or not significantly much) but you better believe they would be more pissed off when their money/NEM is worth 20% less because some whale (and that's just an animal for your average Joe) dumped its stash and lowered the price.  So, as a transition in the search for price stability and from a marketing point of view I think the proposed stability by this measure would be beneficial.


edit: A hypothetical question for you:  You say people are pissed off by the real world and are in search for something new (and don't trust fiat).  This means most people on the stakeholder list are there to deal in NEM and not to return.  I challenge you: give the opportunity to stakeholders that they receive DOUBLE the amount of NEM for 1 stake on the condition that they can NEVER change it back to fiat (nor bitcoin or any other way to cheat this game).  How many would actually do it you think?  Face it: most people are interested in crypto's but in the end they want $ to turn into $$$$...

[hamiltino]

Some people talk about a cellphone/smartphone wallet. This is indeed the key to succes.  You have to mind that 99% of the worlds population hardly heard of bitcoin nor crypocurrencies and if they did, it was in newsflashes pointing out the volatility.  The big majority of the ones who invested some money in it, did it at the wrong time thus losing their money.  result? No trust...

So, if you want to be accepted as a trustworthy way of transferring money, they need to be sure that the currency they're using doesn't act like some crazed pumo and dump altcoin (+40% today, -70% tomorrow).  That's fun for the daytraders but it scares the hell out of people wanting to buy a burger and noticing they can only afford 1 topping with the same amount of coins a yesterday.

What do you need in order to achieve that?  Be able to make the transfers that quick that you can buy coins for $/€, transfer coins in a split second to whereever you want with the receiver acting the same way (receiving coins/nem/whatever), selling their coins immediately for the same price in $/€.  The only chance of losing anything is in the split second of transfer.  

I'm no technician and don't know if this is realistic but in order to be accepted, you need this kind of stability (and monkey-proof ways of transferring money).

People who believe the currency (in this case: nem) will be worth more tomorrow than today, they just hodl

 Possible? Hope so.  Too much focused on fiat? Welcome to the real world...

The "real world" is what pisses people off. It's what we're trying to change. Imho we need to replace fiat not rely on it for the future.

This is what your are proposing (plz correct me if I'm wrong):

I wan't to buy a burger and exchange my fiat for NEM.
I give those NEM to Squidward at the counter.
Squidward imediatly exchanges those NEM for fiat again.

Why on earth wouldn't we just exchange fiat directly ? In your scenario cryptos don't have any purpose.

Imagine the same scenario but Squidward exchanges his NEM for a different fiat curreny then what I bought my NEM for. That's actually what Ripple is all about and it's a great concept but I don't think it's the main purpose of NEM. Imho we should try to get rid of fiat for good.

How is nem going to achieve this?

[patmast3r]

The "real world" is what pisses people off. It's what we're trying to change. Imho we need to replace fiat not rely on it for the future.

This is what your are proposing (plz correct me if I'm wrong):

I wan't to buy a burger and exchange my fiat for NEM.
I give those NEM to Squidward at the counter.
Squidward imediatly exchanges those NEM for fiat again.

Why on earth wouldn't we just exchange fiat directly ? In your scenario cryptos don't have any purpose.

Imagine the same scenario but Squidward exchanges his NEM for a different fiat curreny then what I bought my NEM for. That's actually what Ripple is all about and it's a great concept but I don't think it's the main purpose of NEM. Imho we should try to get rid of fiat for good.

I had to be more specific.

I mean you have to have the ABILITY to exchange to fiat instantly.  Let's say you buy something online and you want it to go quick.  You buy/have  NEM, transfer nem to the other party, they have the ABILITY to change it instantly to fiat thus not risking to lose anything due to volatility.

If you want to have NEM, keep NEM and do business in NEM: fine, if you fear of losing money due to volatility: change instantly to fiat.

You say the real world is pissed off, probably  by our governments printing money and creating inflation, right?  That's true to a certain extend, in the middle-long to long term.  The real world doesn't use cryptocurrencies (or not significantly much) but you better believe they would be more pissed off when their money/NEM is worth 20% less because some whale (and that's just an animal for your average Joe) dumped its stash and lowered the price.  So, as a transition in the search for price stability and from a marketing point of view I think the proposed stability by this measure would be beneficial.


edit: A hypothetical question for you:  You say people are pissed off by the real world and are in search for something new (and don't trust fiat).  This means most people on the stakeholder list are there to deal in NEM and not to return.  I challenge you: give the opportunity to stakeholders that they receive DOUBLE the amount of NEM for 1 stake on the condition that they can NEVER change it back to fiat (nor bitcoin or any other way to cheat this game).  How many would actually do it you think?  Face it: most people are interested in crypto's but in the end they want $ to turn into $$$$...

No doubt we have to deal with fiat for the time being - I never meant to challange that (and I don't think I did).
What I meant to say was that we should try to replace fiat in the future. Otherwise why even bother with all the "crypto crap" ?

[erkki12]

We're forming a SWARM team devoted to the promotion of NEM. We're looking members who are willing to do commenting and upvoting/liking articles, posts, videos etc. in order to promote NEM.

All interested, please send me email to the address nempromotion@gmail.com or PM with your email address and I'll list you! Please include your bitcointalk username in the post.

For the record the SWARM team is not yet active, since there is no coin launched. We're forming the team now, so that we'll have it ready when the need comes.

E

[mikesbmw]

No doubt we have to deal with fiat for the time being - I never meant to challange that (and I don't think I did).
What I meant to say was that we should try to replace fiat in the future. Otherwise why even bother with all the "crypto crap" ?

And how do you suppose everyone will get their crypto currency? 

Will it be distributed for free, an equal share for everyone?
If everyone has crypto currencies, how would it prevent major conglomerate companies from controlling the rest and banks from doing the same thing but now with crypto currencies?

It doesn't matter what you think of as tradable goods, shells, gold, fiat, crypto. The same thing always happens. That's human nature.

Why do we bother with crypto currencies at all? Well there are benefits:
- faster
- cheaper
- more in line with our already digital world
- "anonymous" (for now)
- faster development of other cool stuff

[freigeist]

No doubt we have to deal with fiat for the time being - I never meant to challange that (and I don't think I did).
What I meant to say was that we should try to replace fiat in the future. Otherwise why even bother with all the "crypto crap" ?

We share common view on cryptos but I think that unfortunately
the majority of people on this forums bothers with cryptos to accumulate more $$$ or €€€
so they see it just like opportunity or medium to achieve more $$$ or €€€.
Until this mind set does not change nothing in our system can not change either
I'm afraid we have still long way to go until that point when people will finally
realize it that they have power to change the things if they change their mindset
and they change they way of doing things in real life

I see cryptos like an opportunity for each individual to start a business
without a big "entry fee" (license,tax,permits) imposed by government regulation and legal system.
You will say regulation is needed to protect us "the consumer "but i don't think so.
The most of regulations are imposed to protect the big corporations
and not common people as the legal system works for money
is it difficult for common Joe to seek justice against them.

There are today so many laws and regulations that nobody
can follow and everything you do could be punished or charged.

Accepting FIAT means accepting the current state of the things and
supporting the current way the system is working.
I still use FIAT too but I hope as time will pass the share of FIAT that
I will have to use in daily life will decrease day by day and one day
I will be able to move completely to a "New Economy" and say
FUCK OFF to the current fake "democratic system".

[pabloangello]

We're forming a SWARM team devoted to the promotion of NEM. We're looking members who are willing to do commenting and upvoting/liking articles, posts, videos etc. in order to promote NEM.

All interested, please send me email to the address nempromotion@gmail.com or PM with your email address and I'll list you! Please include your bitcointalk username in the post.

For the record the SWARM team is not yet active, since there is no coin launched. We're forming the team now, so that we'll have it ready when the need comes.

E

Count me in, sent.

[patmast3r]

No doubt we have to deal with fiat for the time being - I never meant to challange that (and I don't think I did).
What I meant to say was that we should try to replace fiat in the future. Otherwise why even bother with all the "crypto crap" ?

And how do you suppose everyone will get their crypto currency? 

Will it be distributed for free, an equal share for everyone?
If everyone has crypto currencies, how would it prevent major conglomerate companies from controlling the rest and banks from doing the same thing but now with crypto currencies?

It doesn't matter what you think of as tradable goods, shells, gold, fiat, crypto. The same thing always happens. That's human nature.

Why do we bother with crypto currencies at all? Well there are benefits:
- faster
- cheaper
- more in line with our already digital world
- "anonymous" (for now)
- faster development of other cool stuff

The couldn't just go ahead and print new money when they feel like it. The system would regulate itself without the need for corrupt asshats.

I don't really see the "faster" argument work. Handing over a bill is just as fast or faster.

How is it cheaper ? The more a crypto is worth the higher the fees become. If you do the math you'll see that BTC fees are not "close to nothing" anymore. Again - handing over a bill costs nothing.

The majority of cryptos is not really anonymous.

[schnötzel]

what about payment for premium hosting services like uploaded or share-online?

Jep! This would be awesome. So you ll be able to buy an "30min, 1h30,... account" and not only 48h or 1month.

[mikesbmw]

No doubt we have to deal with fiat for the time being - I never meant to challange that (and I don't think I did).
What I meant to say was that we should try to replace fiat in the future. Otherwise why even bother with all the "crypto crap" ?

And how do you suppose everyone will get their crypto currency? 

Will it be distributed for free, an equal share for everyone?
If everyone has crypto currencies, how would it prevent major conglomerate companies from controlling the rest and banks from doing the same thing but now with crypto currencies?

It doesn't matter what you think of as tradable goods, shells, gold, fiat, crypto. The same thing always happens. That's human nature.

Why do we bother with crypto currencies at all? Well there are benefits:
- faster
- cheaper
- more in line with our already digital world
- "anonymous" (for now)
- faster development of other cool stuff

The couldn't just go ahead and print new money when they feel like it. The system would regulate itself without the need for corrupt asshats.

I don't really see the "faster" argument work. Handing over a bill is just as fast or faster.

How is it cheaper ? The more a crypto is worth the higher the fees become. If you do the math you'll see that BTC fees are not "close to nothing" anymore. Again - handing over a bill costs nothing.

The majority of cryptos is not really anonymous.

So, uhm, why do you believe in crypto currencies then? 

[dwma]

The discussion of wanting to get rid of fiat is not one worth having.  EVERYONE is on the same page.

We need to discuss how to make NEM grow.

I think we should build upon the strength of NEM and that is the distribution.

This wasn't "fairly" distributed only to people who invested in mining equipment.

It wasn't "fairly" distributed to only 20 something stake holders.

It is something new and different.  We have 3000 unique stake holders minus a few duplicates that slipped through.

We need to build on that reputation.  Distribution !  Lets distribute it further !

How is THIS accomplished?  No one wants to give up too much of their stake.  That is understandable, but this the "New Economy Movement".  It is meant for everyone.  Not select people who invested in mining equipment.  Not few who got in early.  Lets grow on this strength.

If we could make a phone app and give away 1k NEM to every phone # who installed it, I would easily donate 10 maybe 20% to this.

Maybe this app could be tied into some GPS utilizing game ?  Lets get the name out there and get wallets that work for anyone at any time.  This does not need to be an internet currency.  Lets do something different.  NXT asset exchange is neat, but NEM doesn't need to compete with that for now.  NEM needs to win hearts and minds.  Lets do that first !