[NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread

[thuhyl]

do we have an update when the auction will be ?  i plan to submit my bids..... what do you reckon is a fair bid?

If you see the Alpha running; a fair bid should be like 3 Btc to start with =)

should be more.

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[thuhyl]

So is the coin generation called 'foraging' then? Is this final? I'm not sure I like it... it's not a word suited to a highly technological platform. 'Foraging' brings images to mind of people rummaging in bushes or shrubs to find berries or something...

To me, a word like 'minting' sounds much better.

"A node can mint NEM at a rate according to the unique PoI algorithm."

I just think it sounds better. Has a ring to it. Thoughts?

+1

I cannot stand the term "foraging". I'm glad to see someone else has an issue with this.

"Minting" does sound a lot better, but that word refers more to the creation aspect. Qubic's Network PoW is like our PoI, and they use "Minted" to describe how Qubic's are created and "Providers" are the nodes.

Here are the two posts on this subject:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=426303.msg5850252#msg5850252
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=426303.msg5852350#msg5852350

At that time "Guarding" is what I came up with, but later chanc3r mentioned the word "Validating", which I like better.
"Validating" and "Providers" are good descriptions, but let's work on this and come up with the perfect name.

Please, anything but "foraging".

Yeah, the more I think about it 'foraging' sounds worse and worse... you wouldn't 'fish' or 'hunt' for coins would you?

Why would using 'forging' be a bad thing anyway? Every single PoW coin uses the word 'mining' despite differences in their individual algorithms. If 'foraging' was an attempt to be different than NXT then it's failed; it looks like exactly the same word at a glance.

I find nothing wrong with the just plain - good old fashion "forging".

Is  there anyone else that would like to replace the term "foraging"?
 

I would not use "forging". Some people feel it familiar because its has been used before but I don't think it is a good word to describe the process. What and how do you forge exactly ? Emunie uses hatching; Maidsafe uses farming; Not sure peercoin uses what but saying "forging" is good old fashion is a bit premature imho as it has no relevance with the process it is supposed to describe.  

Okay, here is amateur linguistic analysis: forge have two main meanings: the first is to counterfeit which has a negative connotation; the second is to form by heating and beating and hammering into shape. Now if you want to describe the process to a completely new comer and you say "I have been forging NEM all days". It sounds more like you are counterfeiting something. If the second meaning gets through, it also draws a complete picture like you are forging a blade or at least it indicates a transformation of the material during the "forging" process. You "foraging" and" harvesting" does suggest you picking up something already being there not a process of transformation even though now  harvesting feels a bit more evolved to me. So "foraging" and" harvesting" are more accurate relatively to "forging" when describing the process of getting NEM as block reward from transaction fee.
  

You are right "forging" is not the exact word for NEM's process, it's just that personally most anything would sound better than "foraging".
"Reaping" it does sound scary. The word needs to describe NEM's process. I don't know what the word is, but I think it should be more modern/technical.
"Harvesting" is an improvment over "foraging".

+1，Harvesting

[utopianfuture]

Someone explain to me why you think nem is so revolutionary in its technology? not give me "nem is da best mayne" or "because of da distribution"

I'd be interested in that as well.
Are there some confirmed FACTS besides awesome positive distribution yet?  

IMO, counting technological features is too restrictive view to understand the potential of what are under NEM development. While we do some new stuffs such as POI (essential a new block reward algorithm), peer communication algorithm, fee structure design etc. and many others toward V1 blockchain, there are a few more important aspects that should be realized beyond the feature counting comparison if someone attempts to do so. Firstly, it should be realized that the codes are designed and written anew, that means we control NEM's construction from ground-up. A few changes in the core codes while not adding new features could have substantial impacts to the performance and security architecture of the whole system. Furthermore, that Jaguar's decision to take the modern programming practice such as carefully writing unit tests on every part of NEM codes would give NEM the ease of future maintenance and upgradability not only for today but far into the future. The impact of these decisions should not be underestimated when we go beyond basic Bitcoin functionality. Discussing going beyond basic Bitcoin functionality, the most important example is to implement colored coin concept to enable decentralized asset exchange. In this area, so far we have XCP, Mastercoin patching codes over Bitcoin blockchain and NXT with a new blockchain but none has passed the alpha/ beta status so I guess everyone is still in a fair game. You will see that while we are all attempting the same functionality, different design choices would lead to some drastic differences in security, performance, the ease of uses in each system and that will ultimately decide the technological advantage each system has in the long run.

Secondly, the strategic incorporation of an ecosystem with a certain blockchain will ultimately decide the success of each system. I think everyone fully understand that Coinbase+Bitpay+Gift together probably account for 50% of Bitcoin valuation, so developing an ecosystem is of paramount importance and in this aspect we also have certain strategies and philosophies that in the end may matter a great deal more than any single feature of the blockchain. In this aspect, NEM initial token allocation could play a certain important role. Finally we are in an open source community and it is certain that at some point the complete NEM codes would be open to the whole community. So in the end, no single NEM innovative feature would be as nearly important as the ability of NEM dev. team and community to innovate and evolve.

[mladen00]

So is the coin generation called 'foraging' then? Is this final? I'm not sure I like it... it's not a word suited to a highly technological platform. 'Foraging' brings images to mind of people rummaging in bushes or shrubs to find berries or something...

To me, a word like 'minting' sounds much better.

"A node can mint NEM at a rate according to the unique PoI algorithm."

I just think it sounds better. Has a ring to it. Thoughts?

+1

I cannot stand the term "foraging". I'm glad to see someone else has an issue with this.

"Minting" does sound a lot better, but that word refers more to the creation aspect. Qubic's Network PoW is like our PoI, and they use "Minted" to describe how Qubic's are created and "Providers" are the nodes.

Here are the two posts on this subject:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=426303.msg5850252#msg5850252
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=426303.msg5852350#msg5852350

At that time "Guarding" is what I came up with, but later chanc3r mentioned the word "Validating", which I like better.
"Validating" and "Providers" are good descriptions, but let's work on this and come up with the perfect name.

Please, anything but "foraging".

Yeah, the more I think about it 'foraging' sounds worse and worse... you wouldn't 'fish' or 'hunt' for coins would you?

Why would using 'forging' be a bad thing anyway? Every single PoW coin uses the word 'mining' despite differences in their individual algorithms. If 'foraging' was an attempt to be different than NXT then it's failed; it looks like exactly the same word at a glance.

I find nothing wrong with the just plain - good old fashion "forging".

Is  there anyone else that would like to replace the term "foraging"?
 

I would not use "forging". Some people feel it familiar because its has been used before but I don't think it is a good word to describe the process. What and how do you forge exactly ? Emunie uses hatching; Maidsafe uses farming; Not sure peercoin uses what but saying "forging" is good old fashion is a bit premature imho as it has no relevance with the process it is supposed to describe.   

Okay, here is amateur linguistic analysis: forge have two main meanings: the first is to counterfeit which has a negative connotation; the second is to form by heating and beating and hammering into shape. Now if you want to describe the process to a completely new comer and you say "I have been forging NEM all days". It sounds more like you are counterfeiting something. If the second meaning gets through, it also draws a complete picture like you are forging a blade or at least it indicates a transformation of the material during the "forging" process. You "foraging" and" harvesting" does suggest you picking up something already being there not a process of transformation even though now  harvesting feels a bit more evolved to me. So "foraging" and" harvesting" are more accurate relatively to "forging" when describing the process of getting NEM as block reward from transaction fee.
 

You are right "forging" is not the exact word for NEM's process, it's just that personally most anything would sound better than "foraging".
"Reaping" it does sound scary. The word needs to describe NEM's process. I don't know what the word is, but I think it should be more modern/technical.
"Harvesting" is an improvment over "foraging".

+1，Harvesting

NEMING

[xtester]

Someone explain to me why you think nem is so revolutionary in its technology? not give me "nem is da best mayne" or "because of da distribution"

I'd be interested in that as well.
Are there some confirmed FACTS besides awesome positive distribution yet?  

IMO, counting technological features is too restrictive view to understand the potential of what are under NEM development. While we do some new stuffs such as POI (essential a new block reward algorithm), peer communication algorithm, fee structure design etc. and many others toward V1 blockchain, there are a few more important aspects that should be realized beyond the feature counting comparison if someone attempts to do so. Firstly, it should be realized that the codes are designed and written anew, that means we control NEM's construction from ground-up. A few changes in the core codes while not adding new features could have substantial impacts to the performance and security architecture of the whole system. Furthermore, that Jaguar's decision to take the modern programming practice such as carefully writing unit tests on every part of NEM codes would give NEM the ease of future maintenance and upgradability not only for today but far into the future. The impact of these decisions should not be underestimated when we go beyond basic Bitcoin functionality. Discussing going beyond basic Bitcoin functionality, the most important example is to implement colored coin concept to enable decentralized asset exchange. In this area, so far we have XCP, Mastercoin patching codes over Bitcoin blockchain and NXT with a new blockchain but none has passed the alpha/ beta status so I guess everyone is still in a fair game. You will see that while we are all attempting the same functionality, different design choices would lead to some drastic differences in security, performance, the ease of uses in each system and that will ultimately decide the technological advantage each system has in the long run.

Secondly, the strategic incorporation of an ecosystem with a certain blockchain will ultimately decide the success of each system. I think everyone fully understand that Coinbase+Bitpay+Gift together probably account for 50% of Bitcoin valuation, so developing an ecosystem is of paramount importance and in this aspect we also have certain strategies and philosophies that in the end may matter a great deal more than any single feature of the blockchain. In this aspect, NEM initial token allocation could play a certain important role. Finally we are in an open source community and it is certain that at some point the complete NEM codes would be open to the whole community. So in the end, no single NEM innovative feature would be as nearly important as the ability of NEM dev. team and community to innovate and evolve.

Refreshing words of substance.

I would also tend to agree that harvesting has a clear, positive tone to it and seems better than forging, foraging, minting, etc.

[5Dzz]

The term "harvesting" does have a nicer sound to it. Sounds more bountiful and rewarding.

[gimre]

Could someone please link me to the stakeholders list?

Hi Robert, I've heard you're good at picking up girls

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jURa0W2k5LY

[gimre]

Someone explain to me why you think nem is so revolutionary in its technology? not give me "nem is da best mayne" or "because of da distribution"

IMO, (at the moment) there are at least 3 things regarding the technology, PoI is one of them, for two others I think you'll have to wait till alpha or later.
(but there are more to come, they'll probably will be announced in Second Development Plan and probably Third )

[sympathisant]

NEM in context of the discussion/initiatives of unconditional basic income: connected with this scenario value added tax should be the only tax in a future with unconditional basic income for everyone. how would NEM be a step towards transparent/fairer taxation? and would it be a possibility to link a crypto currency 1/1 to a conventional currency to enable a gradual transition towards 100% crypto currency with the goal of value added taxation as only taxation?

[utopianfuture]

NEM in context of the discussion/initiatives of unconditional basic income: connected with this scenario value added tax should be the only tax in a future with unconditional basic income for everyone. how would NEM be a step towards transparent/fairer taxation? and would it be a possibility to link a crypto currency 1/1 to a conventional currency to enable a gradual transition towards 100% crypto currency with the goal of value added taxation as only taxation?

It should be realized that taxing is exclusive purview of a sovereign state, while cryoto currency is global in nature. I could not quite understand your question but my view is that the ascendance of cryoto currency means the decline of sovereign state monopoly power over its people's choice of currency and  taxation.

[xtester]

Are we still in need of a good designer?

If there would be some development stake left and we would still need someone, I think we could really benefit in a lot of ways by having a very skilled designer with some solid experience.

There is a designer who created a great website for CommunityCoin in about 2 days, he's a pretty skilled professional designer with a serious portofolio. You can check the website and offer some feedback as to whether such a spot is still open or not. http://www.communitycoin.info/

[EFFV]

NEM in context of the discussion/initiatives of unconditional basic income: connected with this scenario value added tax should be the only tax in a future with unconditional basic income for everyone. how would NEM be a step towards transparent/fairer taxation? and would it be a possibility to link a crypto currency 1/1 to a conventional currency to enable a gradual transition towards 100% crypto currency with the goal of value added taxation as only taxation?

It should be realized that taxing is exclusive purview of a sovereign state, while cryoto currency is global in nature. I could not quite understand your question but my view is that the ascendance of cryoto currency means the decline of sovereign state monopoly power over its people's choice of currency and  taxation.

Exactly, crypto-currency can help us break away from coercive tyranny of the state. This is why NEM is the "New Economy" Movement.

[utopianfuture]

Are we still in need of a good designer?

If there would be some development stake left and we would still need someone, I think we could really benefit in a lot of ways by having a very skilled designer with some solid experience.

There is a designer who created a great website for CommunityCoin in about 2 days, he's a pretty skilled professional designer with a serious portofolio. You can check the website and offer some feedback as to whether such a spot is still open or not. http://www.communitycoin.info/

Who is he? We do have a designer but for now he works exclusively for NCC design.  

[EFFV]

Are we still in need of a good designer?

If there would be some development stake left and we would still need someone, I think we could really benefit in a lot of ways by having a very skilled designer with some solid experience.

There is a designer who created a great website for CommunityCoin in about 2 days, he's a pretty skilled professional designer with a serious portofolio. You can check the website and offer some feedback as to whether such a spot is still open or not. http://www.communitycoin.info/

Who is he? We do have a designer but for now he works exclusively for NCC design.  

This is his website if you are interested.
http://www.markoprljic.com/

[xtester]

Are we still in need of a good designer?

If there would be some development stake left and we would still need someone, I think we could really benefit in a lot of ways by having a very skilled designer with some solid experience.

There is a designer who created a great website for CommunityCoin in about 2 days, he's a pretty skilled professional designer with a serious portofolio. You can check the website and offer some feedback as to whether such a spot is still open or not. http://www.communitycoin.info/

Who is he? We do have a designer but for now he works exclusively for NCC design.  

This is his website if you are interested.
http://www.markoprljic.com/

Don't know much about him, but noticed he was skilled and fast to help with the website for CommunityCoin.

Here is another link to more things he was working on:
https://dribbble.com/markoprljic

Update: I had some contact with him and if a spot is open, I can discuss the matter, see if he would be interested so we can set something up as soon as possible.

[xtester]

Regarding the auction and branding discussion, I think we need to push things forward with the marketing/branding process in order to really maximize the effect of the auction.

In this field it seems Blackcoin si making some real marketing moves.

We can learn from them and in addition to everything we have planned, create an investor's handout where we outline all the important info about Nem.

Here is an example of how that was done by blackcoin.(Download the PDF to evaluate the idea, see what they plan and what they are working on.)

http://www.blackcoin.co/general/meet-black-april-20th-2014-investor-handout/

Update:

- As it seems blackcoin has created a blackcoin card which has almost arrived. http://www.blackcoincard.com/

- Has signed a contract with Coinkite(payment processor) and is about to get listed on 1 June.

- Doing some creative marketing campaigns such as planning to go to wallstreet and inform people about their ideas. They are doing it in such a way to attract a lot of attention and create some real national/international news buzz : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=469640.msg6455841#msg6455841

[BitZCoin]

Are we still in need of a good designer?

If there would be some development stake left and we would still need someone, I think we could really benefit in a lot of ways by having a very skilled designer with some solid experience.

There is a designer who created a great website for CommunityCoin in about 2 days, he's a pretty skilled professional designer with a serious portofolio. You can check the website and offer some feedback as to whether such a spot is still open or not. http://www.communitycoin.info/

Who is he? We do have a designer but for now he works exclusively for NCC design.  

This is his website if you are interested.
http://www.markoprljic.com/

Don't know much about him, but noticed he was skilled and fast to help with the website for CommunityCoin.

Here is another link to more things he was working on:
https://dribbble.com/markoprljic

Update: I had some contact with him and if a spot is open, I can discuss the matter, see if he would be interested so we can set something up as soon as possible.

Regarding the auction and branding discussion, I think we need to push things forward with the marketing/branding process in order to really maximize the effect of the auction.

In this field it seems Blackcoin si making some real marketing moves.

We can learn from them and in addition to everything we have planned, create an investor's handout where we outline all the important info about Nem.

Here is an example of how that was done by blackcoin.(Download the PDF to evaluate the idea, see what they plan and what they are working on.)

http://www.blackcoin.co/general/meet-black-april-20th-2014-investor-handout/

+1

[utopianfuture]

Announcement: On behalf of NEM dev. team I would like to invite qualified candidates to apply for the position of marketing manager for NEM.

Qualifications:
- experiences with crypto currency communities.
- familiarity with marketing strategies of different crypo promoting group including Bitcoin, Doge, Blackcoin, Peercoin, NXT.
- good at English writing for promotional materials.

Requirements:    
- can spend at least 20 hours per week on NEM related promotional tasks.
- can volunteer for NEM related works.
- being a NEM stakeholder is preferable (not necessarily one right now but should be one over the long-term).
- can formulate a long term strategy as well as individual promotional projects for NEM.

Benefit:
- This is not a temporary hire but you will be a member of NEM development team (while we can pay for specific tasks) and can benefit as such. You will work in association with me as well as other NEM core developers in our many future endeavors.

Please send me a P.M describing your relevant experiences and I will contact you for further interviews. This is a very important position for NEM, so I expect the selection process will take sometimes but hopefully we will have the position filled before NEM alpha release.

[NOjust]

good to see I am in the waiting list.

[upekha]

The term "harvesting" does have a nicer sound to it. Sounds more bountiful and rewarding.

+1 i like it, it has a playfulll feel to it.