[ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning

[BitThink]

Etherium seems really interesting and useful, but regards the price of ETH, my main concern is as following. ETH, as we know, is the fuel of smart contracts. Suppose the cost of creating a contract is 0.01 ETH, then if ETH becomes 100 USD each, the cost will be $1, appreantly too much. We can certainly reduce the cost to 0.0001 or lower, but then it reduce the demand and effectively creates an inflation.

Meanwhile, Etherium is an open source project; after changing to PoS, nothing stops others to create a clone with much lower fuel price. All users can easily switch as long as the VM is compatible. Therefore, we can expect the fuel will always be low, and so is the ETH price in long term, for etherium to be successful.

Any thoughts? I wish someone could prove I am wrong and then I could spend more on ETH investing.

Alright sure, but 72 million of ETH is not really a massive number. I understand your concern if there would be 10 billion in the market. But as it divisible as Bitcoins, it would be the same scenario. If tomorrow Bitcoin becomes massively adopted then 100 bits would be a lot when now it's nothing, same concept here.

BTC is different.

1, the main usage of BTC is payment and store of value, not fuel of smart contract. only transferring costs money.
While ETH is need to do everything related in smart contracts, much more than transferring.

2, more importantly, as a PoW coin, there's no possibility to clone a BTC due to its huge hashing rate.
While Etherium can be easily copied after it changed to PoS.

You could be right... or you could be the next Kodak...

I don't think ETH is competing with BTC. I think they are different things. BTC is coin, Etherium is like iOS, an operating system. ETH is just like the charge on usage on all iOS programmer and users. Now my question is, how to prevent someone creates an iOS clone? it's even not like Android, which cannot run iOS apps. It is a real clone and can run all Apps with much lower fees. There's no law can protect Etherium in this case. That's my biggest concern.

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[m4nki]

You could be right... or you could be the next Kodak...

Kodak missed the rise of new technology.

Ethereum is new technology.

Unless something bigger than crypto currencies take over, I think Ethereum will not likely end up as Kodak.

[MaGNeT]

You could be right... or you could be the next Kodak...

Kodak missed the rise of new technology.

Ethereum is new technology.

Unless something bigger than crypto currencies take over, I think Ethereum will not likely end up as Kodak.

That's what I said.
Was talking about Bitcoin

[Madmach]

Etherium seems really interesting and useful, but regards the price of ETH, my main concern is as following. ETH, as we know, is the fuel of smart contracts. Suppose the cost of creating a contract is 0.01 ETH, then if ETH becomes 100 USD each, the cost will be $1, appreantly too much. We can certainly reduce the cost to 0.0001 or lower, but then it reduce the demand and effectively creates an inflation.

Meanwhile, Etherium is an open source project; after changing to PoS, nothing stops others to create a clone with much lower fuel price. All users can easily switch as long as the VM is compatible. Therefore, we can expect the fuel will always be low, and so is the ETH price in long term, for etherium to be successful.

Any thoughts? I wish someone could prove I am wrong and then I could spend more on ETH investing.

Alright sure, but 72 million of ETH is not really a massive number. I understand your concern if there would be 10 billion in the market. But as it divisible as Bitcoins, it would be the same scenario. If tomorrow Bitcoin becomes massively adopted then 100 bits would be a lot when now it's nothing, same concept here.

BTC is different.

1, the main usage of BTC is payment and store of value, not fuel of smart contract. only transferring costs money.
While ETH is need to do everything related in smart contracts, much more than transferring.

2, more importantly, as a PoW coin, there's no possibility to clone a BTC due to its huge hashing rate.
While Etherium can be easily copied after it changed to PoS.

You could be right... or you could be the next Kodak...

I don't think ETH is competing with BTC. I think they are different things. BTC is coin, Etherium is like iOS, an operating system. ETH is just like the charge on usage on all iOS programmer and users. Now my question is, how to prevent someone creates an iOS clone? it's even not like Android, which cannot run iOS apps. It is a real clone and can run all Apps with much lower fees. There's no law can protect Etherium in this case. That's my biggest concern.

I think, that Bitcoin has currently more clones, than Ethereum.

[WilderX]

Etherium seems really interesting and useful, but regards the price of ETH, my main concern is as following. ETH, as we know, is the fuel of smart contracts. Suppose the cost of creating a contract is 0.01 ETH, then if ETH becomes 100 USD each, the cost will be $1, appreantly too much. We can certainly reduce the cost to 0.0001 or lower, but then it reduce the demand and effectively creates an inflation.

Meanwhile, Etherium is an open source project; after changing to PoS, nothing stops others to create a clone with much lower fuel price. All users can easily switch as long as the VM is compatible. Therefore, we can expect the fuel will always be low, and so is the ETH price in long term, for etherium to be successful.

Any thoughts? I wish someone could prove I am wrong and then I could spend more on ETH investing.

Hi, from what I have gathered from the official Ethereum blog posts is that once Ethereum have been scaled to capeable of handling 100000 transactions per second as opposed to now 10-20 transactions per second the "gas price" or simply in other words the ETH you pay for block space will go down of equal proportion. That is what my logic tells it should be since then there will be so much more block space so transactions should be cheaper, but I am not 100% sure this is how the Ethereum protocol will work it could be wrong assumption or can someone confirm this?

Shards implementation will be very interesting if Vitaliks theory works.

[BitThink]

Etherium seems really interesting and useful, but regards the price of ETH, my main concern is as following. ETH, as we know, is the fuel of smart contracts. Suppose the cost of creating a contract is 0.01 ETH, then if ETH becomes 100 USD each, the cost will be $1, appreantly too much. We can certainly reduce the cost to 0.0001 or lower, but then it reduce the demand and effectively creates an inflation.

Meanwhile, Etherium is an open source project; after changing to PoS, nothing stops others to create a clone with much lower fuel price. All users can easily switch as long as the VM is compatible. Therefore, we can expect the fuel will always be low, and so is the ETH price in long term, for etherium to be successful.

Any thoughts? I wish someone could prove I am wrong and then I could spend more on ETH investing.

Alright sure, but 72 million of ETH is not really a massive number. I understand your concern if there would be 10 billion in the market. But as it divisible as Bitcoins, it would be the same scenario. If tomorrow Bitcoin becomes massively adopted then 100 bits would be a lot when now it's nothing, same concept here.

BTC is different.

1, the main usage of BTC is payment and store of value, not fuel of smart contract. only transferring costs money.
While ETH is need to do everything related in smart contracts, much more than transferring.

2, more importantly, as a PoW coin, there's no possibility to clone a BTC due to its huge hashing rate.
While Etherium can be easily copied after it changed to PoS.

You could be right... or you could be the next Kodak...

I don't think ETH is competing with BTC. I think they are different things. BTC is coin, Etherium is like iOS, an operating system. ETH is just like the charge on usage on all iOS programmer and users. Now my question is, how to prevent someone creates an iOS clone? it's even not like Android, which cannot run iOS apps. It is a real clone and can run all Apps with much lower fees. There's no law can protect Etherium in this case. That's my biggest concern.

I think, that Bitcoin has currently more clones, than Ethereum.

The point is that you cannot use any BTC clone as BTC, but you can run any script or contract on an Etherium clone.

[BitThink]

Etherium seems really interesting and useful, but regards the price of ETH, my main concern is as following. ETH, as we know, is the fuel of smart contracts. Suppose the cost of creating a contract is 0.01 ETH, then if ETH becomes 100 USD each, the cost will be $1, appreantly too much. We can certainly reduce the cost to 0.0001 or lower, but then it reduce the demand and effectively creates an inflation.

Meanwhile, Etherium is an open source project; after changing to PoS, nothing stops others to create a clone with much lower fuel price. All users can easily switch as long as the VM is compatible. Therefore, we can expect the fuel will always be low, and so is the ETH price in long term, for etherium to be successful.

Any thoughts? I wish someone could prove I am wrong and then I could spend more on ETH investing.

Hi, from what I have gathered from the official Ethereum blog posts is that once Ethereum have been scaled to capeable of handling 100000 transactions per second as opposed to now 10-20 transactions per second the "gas price" or simply in other words the ETH you pay for block space will go down of equal proportion. That is what my logic tells it should be since then there will be so much more block space so transactions should be cheaper, but I am not 100% sure this is how the Ethereum protocol will work it could be wrong assumption or can someone confirm this?

Shards implementation will be very interesting if Vitaliks theory works.

This is a good news, but 100K transactions per second seems really unrealistic for a distributed system. Really need to check their papers carefully for me to believe this number.

[MaGNeT]

Etherium seems really interesting and useful, but regards the price of ETH, my main concern is as following. ETH, as we know, is the fuel of smart contracts. Suppose the cost of creating a contract is 0.01 ETH, then if ETH becomes 100 USD each, the cost will be $1, appreantly too much. We can certainly reduce the cost to 0.0001 or lower, but then it reduce the demand and effectively creates an inflation.

Meanwhile, Etherium is an open source project; after changing to PoS, nothing stops others to create a clone with much lower fuel price. All users can easily switch as long as the VM is compatible. Therefore, we can expect the fuel will always be low, and so is the ETH price in long term, for etherium to be successful.

Any thoughts? I wish someone could prove I am wrong and then I could spend more on ETH investing.

Alright sure, but 72 million of ETH is not really a massive number. I understand your concern if there would be 10 billion in the market. But as it divisible as Bitcoins, it would be the same scenario. If tomorrow Bitcoin becomes massively adopted then 100 bits would be a lot when now it's nothing, same concept here.

BTC is different.

1, the main usage of BTC is payment and store of value, not fuel of smart contract. only transferring costs money.
While ETH is need to do everything related in smart contracts, much more than transferring.

2, more importantly, as a PoW coin, there's no possibility to clone a BTC due to its huge hashing rate.
While Etherium can be easily copied after it changed to PoS.

You could be right... or you could be the next Kodak...

I don't think ETH is competing with BTC. I think they are different things. BTC is coin, Etherium is like iOS, an operating system. ETH is just like the charge on usage on all iOS programmer and users. Now my question is, how to prevent someone creates an iOS clone? it's even not like Android, which cannot run iOS apps. It is a real clone and can run all Apps with much lower fees. There's no law can protect Etherium in this case. That's my biggest concern.

I think, that Bitcoin has currently more clones, than Ethereum.

The point is that you cannot use any BTC clone as BTC, but you can run any script or contract on an Etherium clone.

But that still doesn't make it Ethereum, just like LTC or NMC isn't Bitcoin.
It's all about the size of the userbase and development. Clones will always be a step behind on ETH development.

[BitThink]

Etherium seems really interesting and useful, but regards the price of ETH, my main concern is as following. ETH, as we know, is the fuel of smart contracts. Suppose the cost of creating a contract is 0.01 ETH, then if ETH becomes 100 USD each, the cost will be $1, appreantly too much. We can certainly reduce the cost to 0.0001 or lower, but then it reduce the demand and effectively creates an inflation.

Meanwhile, Etherium is an open source project; after changing to PoS, nothing stops others to create a clone with much lower fuel price. All users can easily switch as long as the VM is compatible. Therefore, we can expect the fuel will always be low, and so is the ETH price in long term, for etherium to be successful.

Any thoughts? I wish someone could prove I am wrong and then I could spend more on ETH investing.

Alright sure, but 72 million of ETH is not really a massive number. I understand your concern if there would be 10 billion in the market. But as it divisible as Bitcoins, it would be the same scenario. If tomorrow Bitcoin becomes massively adopted then 100 bits would be a lot when now it's nothing, same concept here.

BTC is different.

1, the main usage of BTC is payment and store of value, not fuel of smart contract. only transferring costs money.
While ETH is need to do everything related in smart contracts, much more than transferring.

2, more importantly, as a PoW coin, there's no possibility to clone a BTC due to its huge hashing rate.
While Etherium can be easily copied after it changed to PoS.

You could be right... or you could be the next Kodak...

I don't think ETH is competing with BTC. I think they are different things. BTC is coin, Etherium is like iOS, an operating system. ETH is just like the charge on usage on all iOS programmer and users. Now my question is, how to prevent someone creates an iOS clone? it's even not like Android, which cannot run iOS apps. It is a real clone and can run all Apps with much lower fees. There's no law can protect Etherium in this case. That's my biggest concern.

I think, that Bitcoin has currently more clones, than Ethereum.

The point is that you cannot use any BTC clone as BTC, but you can run any script or contract on an Etherium clone.

But that still doesn't make it Ethereum, just like LTC or NMC isn't Bitcoin.
It's all about the size of the userbase and development. Clones will always be a step behind on ETH development.

Unless you close the source, otherwise others just use "git pull" to catch up with all the updates you make.
The only thing left to protect Etherium is just user base, just like any open source project. I don't think this protection alone can protect ETH to rise to $100.

[MaGNeT]

Etherium seems really interesting and useful, but regards the price of ETH, my main concern is as following. ETH, as we know, is the fuel of smart contracts. Suppose the cost of creating a contract is 0.01 ETH, then if ETH becomes 100 USD each, the cost will be $1, appreantly too much. We can certainly reduce the cost to 0.0001 or lower, but then it reduce the demand and effectively creates an inflation.

Meanwhile, Etherium is an open source project; after changing to PoS, nothing stops others to create a clone with much lower fuel price. All users can easily switch as long as the VM is compatible. Therefore, we can expect the fuel will always be low, and so is the ETH price in long term, for etherium to be successful.

Any thoughts? I wish someone could prove I am wrong and then I could spend more on ETH investing.

Alright sure, but 72 million of ETH is not really a massive number. I understand your concern if there would be 10 billion in the market. But as it divisible as Bitcoins, it would be the same scenario. If tomorrow Bitcoin becomes massively adopted then 100 bits would be a lot when now it's nothing, same concept here.

BTC is different.

1, the main usage of BTC is payment and store of value, not fuel of smart contract. only transferring costs money.
While ETH is need to do everything related in smart contracts, much more than transferring.

2, more importantly, as a PoW coin, there's no possibility to clone a BTC due to its huge hashing rate.
While Etherium can be easily copied after it changed to PoS.

You could be right... or you could be the next Kodak...

I don't think ETH is competing with BTC. I think they are different things. BTC is coin, Etherium is like iOS, an operating system. ETH is just like the charge on usage on all iOS programmer and users. Now my question is, how to prevent someone creates an iOS clone? it's even not like Android, which cannot run iOS apps. It is a real clone and can run all Apps with much lower fees. There's no law can protect Etherium in this case. That's my biggest concern.

I think, that Bitcoin has currently more clones, than Ethereum.

The point is that you cannot use any BTC clone as BTC, but you can run any script or contract on an Etherium clone.

But that still doesn't make it Ethereum, just like LTC or NMC isn't Bitcoin.
It's all about the size of the userbase and development. Clones will always be a step behind on ETH development.

Unless you close the source, otherwise others just use "git pull" to catch up with all the updates you make.
The only thing left to protect Etherium is just user base, just like any open source project. I don't think this protection alone can protect ETH to rise to $100.

If you feel like that, I would really advice not to invest in ETH.
I did though.

[WilderX]

Etherium seems really interesting and useful, but regards the price of ETH, my main concern is as following. ETH, as we know, is the fuel of smart contracts. Suppose the cost of creating a contract is 0.01 ETH, then if ETH becomes 100 USD each, the cost will be $1, appreantly too much. We can certainly reduce the cost to 0.0001 or lower, but then it reduce the demand and effectively creates an inflation.

Meanwhile, Etherium is an open source project; after changing to PoS, nothing stops others to create a clone with much lower fuel price. All users can easily switch as long as the VM is compatible. Therefore, we can expect the fuel will always be low, and so is the ETH price in long term, for etherium to be successful.

Any thoughts? I wish someone could prove I am wrong and then I could spend more on ETH investing.

Hi, from what I have gathered from the official Ethereum blog posts is that once Ethereum have been scaled to capeable of handling 100000 transactions per second as opposed to now 10-20 transactions per second the "gas price" or simply in other words the ETH you pay for block space will go down of equal proportion. That is what my logic tells it should be since then there will be so much more block space so transactions should be cheaper, but I am not 100% sure this is how the Ethereum protocol will work it could be wrong assumption or can someone confirm this?

Shards implementation will be very interesting if Vitaliks theory works.

This is a good news, but 100K transactions per second seems really unrealistic for a distributed system. Really need to check their papers carefully for me to believe this number.

It's here: (look at the paragraph named scalability)
https://blog.ethereum.org/2015/10/18/vitaliks-research-and-ecosystem-update/

Whether or not they deliver remains to be seen.

[nexern]

yes, sharding is a game changer not only for scaling. it incentives 'entities' to stay on the eth chain instead cloning.
it won't prevent cloning in all cases but for many 'products', acting on consumers, it gives advantages to run contracts
on semi-private metalayers on the main chain. sharding is used since years in db-country so it should work. however,
as soon sharding is confirmed, i will throw my remaining btc on eth in zero-time.

[Dekker3D]

ETH and BTC are both on the rise recently, with ETH having more upside but since ETH is more of like an operating system we're still waiting for the altcoin that will utilize its features.

[jubalix]

Etherium is a very slow computer...that can't be turned off....and the state can be inspected anywhere.....

this have benefits for critical application, the ones that large amounts of money depend on

[tedbaong]

up and down its so pretty

[BitThink]

Etherium seems really interesting and useful, but regards the price of ETH, my main concern is as following. ETH, as we know, is the fuel of smart contracts. Suppose the cost of creating a contract is 0.01 ETH, then if ETH becomes 100 USD each, the cost will be $1, appreantly too much. We can certainly reduce the cost to 0.0001 or lower, but then it reduce the demand and effectively creates an inflation.

Meanwhile, Etherium is an open source project; after changing to PoS, nothing stops others to create a clone with much lower fuel price. All users can easily switch as long as the VM is compatible. Therefore, we can expect the fuel will always be low, and so is the ETH price in long term, for etherium to be successful.

Any thoughts? I wish someone could prove I am wrong and then I could spend more on ETH investing.

Hi, from what I have gathered from the official Ethereum blog posts is that once Ethereum have been scaled to capeable of handling 100000 transactions per second as opposed to now 10-20 transactions per second the "gas price" or simply in other words the ETH you pay for block space will go down of equal proportion. That is what my logic tells it should be since then there will be so much more block space so transactions should be cheaper, but I am not 100% sure this is how the Ethereum protocol will work it could be wrong assumption or can someone confirm this?

Shards implementation will be very interesting if Vitaliks theory works.

This is a good news, but 100K transactions per second seems really unrealistic for a distributed system. Really need to check their papers carefully for me to believe this number.

It's here: (look at the paragraph named scalability)
https://blog.ethereum.org/2015/10/18/vitaliks-research-and-ecosystem-update/

Whether or not they deliver remains to be seen.

Thanks a lot. Will read it carefully.

[WilderX]

yes, sharding is a game changer not only for scaling. it incentives 'entities' to stay on the eth chain instead cloning.
it won't prevent cloning in all cases but for many 'products', acting on consumers, it gives advantages to run contracts
on semi-private metalayers on the main chain. sharding is used since years in db-country so it should work. however,
as soon sharding is confirmed, i will throw my remaining btc on eth in zero-time.

Are you sure you want to do that? Let's assume Ethereum succesfully scales to 100k transactions per second and let's assume Ethereum gets popular and apps are run on the network even so much apps as to reach that 100k transactions is run every second. I calculate that even then the daily total transaction costs would be around 1296ETH per day. Surely POS rewards are much more than that and this is why I believe there's much higher sell pressure on ETH than buy pressure. My logic tells me the price will only go down as Ethereum scales.

[nexern]

yes, i am sure.
turning a slow but robust single cpu into a fast and robust multicore cpu/gpu sounds good to me.
from my experience with nxt (100% pos, no inflation). pos rewarded sell pressure doesn't have
notable impact since it is just a recycling (fixed supply | closed system) on already fullfilled usage
(buy) demand. the pos specs aren't written in stone yet but a 1% inflation isn't sufficient to make
a difference from my pov. a self-adjusting recycle loop with a zero sum outcome so said but we
will see because this depends heavily on how eth pos is finally designed.

[Koamder]

2, more importantly, as a PoW coin, there's no possibility to clone a BTC due to its huge hashing rate.
While Etherium can be easily copied after it changed to PoS.

I think it is better to keep Ethereum as a PoW for a few more years so that its user base can be increased further as there are more miners.

[Fatman3001]

2, more importantly, as a PoW coin, there's no possibility to clone a BTC due to its huge hashing rate.
While Etherium can be easily copied after it changed to PoS.

I think it is better to keep Ethereum as a PoW for a few more years so that its user base can be increased further as there are more miners.

PoW mining is a PR problem if you want to reach a larger audience.