[POOL][Scrypt][Scrypt-N][X11] Profit switching pool - wafflepool.com

[comeonalready]

The multipool works off taking advantage of arbitrage opportunities. There is a finite # of arbitrage opportunities given that large dumps drop prices. There are also a finite number of buyers (that doesn't increase proportionately to the sellers in this case). The smaller the dumps, the higher the price of the sell. It is marginal but still an increase nonetheless.

Yes, that would certainly be irrefutable if we were the only multipool.  But we are most certainly not, and if you review our earnings log you will see that we are still mining litecoin at times suggesting that opportunities for arbitrage are few and even then the margins are very slim.  I would propose that any advantage for us would be very small and indistinguishable from the effects of the "luck" component in mining.  At current, a much greater advantage to us is that dogecoin variable block rewards are still on the table.  I wonder what will happen to our earnings rate in a couple days?  And what our earnings log will look like then?

[1714297039]

1714297039

[lagster]

can we finaly have a value of straight ltc mining, since we all are scrypt miners, at the stats page please? with current difficulty and 0% fees (yes, the spherical horse in space).
it would be wp style to be this open. and since we trust you, pw, we can skip on using calculators all the time. like right now it is 0.00577 with ltc/btc of 0.02707 (pretty high).
can someone ask him about this, i think i am on his ignore list, but this little number will make life even esier for us.

[comeonalready]

The multipool works off taking advantage of arbitrage opportunities. There is a finite # of arbitrage opportunities given that large dumps drop prices. There are also a finite number of buyers (that doesn't increase proportionately to the sellers in this case). The smaller the dumps, the higher the price of the sell. It is marginal but still an increase nonetheless.

Yes, that would certainly be irrefutable if we were the only multipool.  But we are most certainly not, and if you review our earnings log you will see that we are still mining litecoin at times suggesting that opportunities for arbitrage are few and even then the margins are very slim.  I would propose that any advantage for us would be very small and indistinguishable from the effects of the "luck" component in mining.  At current, a much greater advantage to us is that dogecoin variable block rewards are still on the table.  I wonder what will happen to our earnings rate in a couple days?  And what our earnings log will look like then?

In other words, the profitability of arbitrage is inversely proportional to the efficiency of the market.  In a 100% efficient market, there are zero opportunities for arbitrage.  The rise of multipools, at least within the scrypt mining domain, has led to an exceedingly efficient market, thereby reducing the value of arbitrage within the scrypt market.  For arbitrage to continue to yield profits, scope must be expanded outwards from scrypt into scrypt adjacent markets  There are currently tremendous market inefficiencies in that realm.

[FrankieSaysRelax]

The multipool works off taking advantage of arbitrage opportunities. There is a finite # of arbitrage opportunities given that large dumps drop prices. There are also a finite number of buyers (that doesn't increase proportionately to the sellers in this case). The smaller the dumps, the higher the price of the sell. It is marginal but still an increase nonetheless.

Yes, that would certainly be irrefutable if we were the only multipool.  But we are most certainly not, and if you review our earnings log you will see that we are still mining litecoin at times suggesting that opportunities for arbitrage are few and even then the margins are very slim.  I would propose that any advantage for us would be very small and indistinguishable from the effects of the "luck" component in mining.  At current, a much greater advantage to us is that dogecoin variable block rewards are still on the table.  I wonder what will happen to our earnings rate in a couple days?  And what our earnings log will look like then?

In other words, the profitability of arbitrage is inversely proportional to the efficiency of the market.  In a 100% efficient market, there are zero opportunities for arbitrage.  The rise of multipools, at least within the scrypt mining domain, has led to an exceedingly efficient market, thereby reducing the value of arbitrage within the scrypt market.  For arbitrage to continue to yield profits, scope must be expanded outwards from scrypt into scrypt adjacent markets  There are currently tremendous market inefficiencies in that realm.

scrypt-n multipool would be a good start

[richmke]

In other words, the profitability of arbitrage is inversely proportional to the efficiency of the market.  In a 100% efficient market, there are zero opportunities for arbitrage.

"Efficiency" and "arbitrage" are two separate things. "Efficiency" has to do with information. "Arbitrage" is based upon what people do with that information.

There is also a difference between riskless arbitrage, and risk arbitrage. Most arbitrage is risk arbitrage. How the different players value the risks, and transaction costs, determines if they are willing to do trades to close the spread.

So, even in a 100% efficient market, there are opportunities for risk arbitrage. Otherwise the big guns on Wall St. wouldn't spend millions of dollars to make all the pennies (on what you would consider is a very efficient market) that add up to millions of dollars.

The rise of multi-pools has led to a more balanced market, not necessarily a more "efficient" one. The rise of multi-pools is a simple effect of economics - supply and demand. Not of arbitragers. Someone is willing to pay more (demand), and the multi-pools have arisen to satisfy that demand (supply).

Arbitrage is someone was buying on one exchange and selling on another, and making the prices on the two exchanges converge.

[lagster]

since i moved for a week vacation to cexio, i have noticed that my internet provider works better and no electrical power shutdowns happened so far. no earthquakes were registered over our planet. no country proclaimed war to another. sasha gray is still hot and this is the reason i will stay there for whis week.

[comeonalready]

"Efficiency" and "arbitrage" are two separate things. "Efficiency" has to do with information. "Arbitrage" is based upon what people do with that information.

There is also a difference between riskless arbitrage, and risk arbitrage. Most arbitrage is risk arbitrage. How the different players value the risks, and transaction costs, determines if they are willing to do trades to close the spread.

So, even in a 100% efficient market, there are opportunities for risk arbitrage. Otherwise the big guns on Wall St. wouldn't spend millions of dollars to make all the pennies (on what you would consider is a very efficient market) that add up to millions of dollars.

The rise of multi-pools has led to a more balanced market, not necessarily a more "efficient" one. The rise of multi-pools is a simple effect of economics - supply and demand. Not of arbitragers. Someone is willing to pay more (demand), and the multi-pools have arisen to satisfy that demand (supply).

Very well said.  Though I would not exactly call the financial markets perfectly efficient, and those guys wearing $10,000 suits on wall street doing risk arbitrage aren't exactly playing with all their own money.  (And some of them are even working with better than perfect information in violation of the law because the US justice system currently does not punish thieves on wall street as harshly as they do someone stealing food to feed their family.).   If you were to disagree with me on the level of efficiency within financial markets, I would refer you to this article I read in the Wall Street journal last month.  

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303947904579340711424615716

Very briefly, the article illustrates how in any market, however well established, there are almost always opportunities to exploit, and in this specific case, speed to information.  High-speed traders have moved from custom-built fiber-optic cables, to microwave, then millimeter-wave transmissions, in order to gain exploitable benefits over other market participants.  In the old days it was market spreads, having priced securities in fractional values.  Since moving to decimals, it is currently speed.  Tomorrow, it will be something else.

But an equivalent rate of "earning pennies on millions" was not exactly the type of additional return that miners here will even notice.  That would equate to only a 0.0001% increase in BTC/1MHD, and for most miners here, except you know who, that is not exactly going to make much of a difference.

Update:  Or more than 0.0001%, depending upon how many times the process would be repeated during the course of a day.  But still most here would not be able to notice the difference.  And then if you had the formula to earn that rate via arbitrage, would you share the rewards with the pool or simply start an alternate business for yourself?

[lagster]

, and for most miners here, except you know who, that is not exactly going to make much of a difference.

can we all agree on using the chinese terminator term? or something even more dramatic for what they are doing and going to do.

[lagster]

wp became a normal profit pool after chinese terminator left for cexio? 0.008 so far.. pw, what are your thoughts?

[comeonalready]

can we all agree on using the chinese terminator term? or something even more dramatic for what they are doing and going to do.

He's not doing anything.  His presence is an inevitable result of the market.  If it weren't him, it would be someone else, or many someone elses, and would it really matter which is the case?  The results would be the same.  There were very easy pickings over the past six months.  Now there is simply more competition.  We will all be fighting each other for fresh water one day.  This is much better.

[comeonalready]

wp became a normal profit pool after chinese terminator left for cexio? 0.008 so far.. pw, what are your thoughts?

In the third week in January of this year, the news outlets in New York City were reporting that since January 1, fatalities from car accidents had risen over 300% from 2013.  What are your thoughts?

[lagster]

wp became a normal profit pool after chinese terminator left for cexio? 0.008 so far.. pw, what are your thoughts?

In the third week in January of this year, the news outlets in New York City were reporting that since January 1, fatalities from car accidents had risen over 300% from 2013.  What are your thoughts?

ok i am stupid and you are making me look even funnier. when will we start fighting for fresh water you mentioned before?

[comeonalready]

ok i am stupid and you are making me look even funnier. when will we start fighting for fresh water you mentioned before?

That is not my goal, and if I have offended you then I apologize.  As for the water, I hope not soon because I'm a lover not a fighter.

[comeonalready]

wp became a normal profit pool after chinese terminator left for cexio? 0.008 so far.. pw, what are your thoughts?

Though I still do believe these early day results are an effect of variance over the short term, it is possible that poolwaffle will be withdrawing funds from cex.io today, so we might see higher payout as a result of work proxied to ghash.io two days ago.  pw, given that your proxy work was somewhat rushed, can you tell us whether the profits from mining at ghash are included in daily statistics when they were mined or when they are withdrawn from cex?  Thanks.

[lagster]

wp became a normal profit pool after chinese terminator left for cexio? 0.008 so far.. pw, what are your thoughts?

Though I still do believe these early day results are an effect of variance over the short term, it is possible that poolwaffle will be withdrawing funds from cex.io today, so we might see higher payout as a result of work proxied to ghash.io two days ago.  pw, given that your proxy work was somewhat rushed, can you tell us whether the profits from mining at ghash are included in daily statistics when they were mined or when they are withdrawn from cex?  Thanks.

all i wanted to know is if pw's %1-fees from exchanges are good enough to cover overall -0.002 btc/1mh for miners if it is really because of the hashrate drop. but we will see our real profits for today a bit later as you pointed politely. and there is cex part wich is not shown and is not a big deal as we didnt spend a lot of time with them.
as for water fights, i hope i will not live long enough to see it live.

[dogechode]

, and for most miners here, except you know who, that is not exactly going to make much of a difference.

can we all agree on using the chinese terminator term? or something even more dramatic for what they are doing and going to do.

I call him TILIKUM!!!



(for those of you who live in closets, Tilikum is the whale that killed like 2 trainers and a hobo at Sea World.)

[lagster]

, and for most miners here, except you know who, that is not exactly going to make much of a difference.

can we all agree on using the chinese terminator term? or something even more dramatic for what they are doing and going to do.

I call him TILIKUM!!!
(for those of you who live in closets, Tilikum is the whale that killed like 2 trainers and a hobo at Sea World.)

didn't they kill him? i mean.. if they did, why we can not?

[dogechode]

, and for most miners here, except you know who, that is not exactly going to make much of a difference.

can we all agree on using the chinese terminator term? or something even more dramatic for what they are doing and going to do.

I call him TILIKUM!!!
(for those of you who live in closets, Tilikum is the whale that killed like 2 trainers and a hobo at Sea World.)

didn't they kill him? i mean.. if they did, why we can not?

I don't think they did, pretty sure they're still whacking him off to breed more hobo-munchers

[comeonalready]

, and for most miners here, except you know who, that is not exactly going to make much of a difference.

can we all agree on using the chinese terminator term? or something even more dramatic for what they are doing and going to do.

I call him TILIKUM!!!
(for those of you who live in closets, Tilikum is the whale that killed like 2 trainers and a hobo at Sea World.)

didn't they kill him? i mean.. if they did, why we can not?

I don't think they did, pretty sure they're still whacking him off to breed more hobo-munchers

Sure the trainers had it coming for naming him tilikum, but what did the hobo ever do to him?

And if there is any analogy here, is sfire tilikum, and the hobo the scrypt market?  And what decade are we in to still be calling someone a hobo?

[lagster]

, and for most miners here, except you know who, that is not exactly going to make much of a difference.

can we all agree on using the chinese terminator term? or something even more dramatic for what they are doing and going to do.

I call him TILIKUM!!!
(for those of you who live in closets, Tilikum is the whale that killed like 2 trainers and a hobo at Sea World.)

didn't they kill him? i mean.. if they did, why we can not?

I don't think they did, pretty sure they're still whacking him off to breed more hobo-munchers

Sure the trainers had it coming for naming him tilikum, but what did the hobo ever do to him?

And if there is any analogy here, is sfire tilikum, and the hobo the scrypt market?  And what decade are we in to still be calling someone a hobo?

if sfire is tilikum, why he enlarges himself at will. and how much bigger can he make himself before he starts on munching trainers or whoever is around him. or may be he is doing it right now? a week of pool mining and we could hire someone like chucknorris to solve the problem.