[POOL][Scrypt][Scrypt-N][X11] Profit switching pool - wafflepool.com

[cloudrck]

Problem with profitability become apparent when the pool gets too large

Profitability has been the same for me, not sure why people misunderstand how things work

It is the god damn coin market you idiots. not the hash power......does that make any sense!? Oh we have a shit ton of hash but make less.

I'm not sure who you are talking, or even what you are talking about because your post is incoherent, but I know it has little to do with the hash rate.

[1714680244]

1714680244

[1714680244]

1714680244

[1714680244]

1714680244

[zneww]

Problem with profitability become apparent when the pool gets too large

Profitability has been the same for me, not sure why people misunderstand how things work

It is the god damn coin market you idiots. not the hash power......does that make any sense!? Oh we have a shit ton of hash but make less.

I'm not sure who you are talking, or even what you are talking about because your post is incoherent, but I know it has little to do with the hash rate.

Incoherent? English not your native language? How is that incoherent?

And there is an obvious QUOTE on who I am talking to.

[cloudrck]

Problem with profitability become apparent when the pool gets too large

Profitability has been the same for me, not sure why people misunderstand how things work

It is the god damn coin market you idiots. not the hash power......does that make any sense!? Oh we have a shit ton of hash but make less.

I'm not sure who you are talking, or even what you are talking about because your post is incoherent, but I know it has little to do with the hash rate.

Incoherent? English not your native language? How is that incoherent?

And there is an obvious QUOTE on who I am talking to.

You were replying to two different posts, one post saying hash power affects profit, the other saying it doesn't. But you only seemed to be making one viewpoint. The first sentence you used you said it was not hash power but the market. Then in your second [incomplete] sentence, you said we have a high hash rate but make less. I'm unsure as to what point you were trying to make.

[zneww]

Problem with profitability become apparent when the pool gets too large

Profitability has been the same for me, not sure why people misunderstand how things work

It is the god damn coin market you idiots. not the hash power......does that make any sense!? Oh we have a shit ton of hash but make less.

I'm not sure who you are talking, or even what you are talking about because your post is incoherent, but I know it has little to do with the hash rate.

Incoherent? English not your native language? How is that incoherent?

And there is an obvious QUOTE on who I am talking to.

You were replying to two different posts, one post saying hash power affects profit, the other saying it doesn't. But you only seemed to be making one viewpoint. The first sentence you used you said it was not hash power but the market. Then in your second [incomplete] sentence, you said we have a high hash rate but make less. I'm unsure as to what point you were trying to make.

Can we use common sense here? Is that to much to ask for?

Who do you think I am talking to? Obviously NOT you.

[dogechode]

Are we assuming that coinmarket.io is dead and/or ran off with peoples' coins?

[zneww]

Are we assuming that coinmarket.io is dead and/or ran off with peoples' coins?

No, I don't know what to think about the site hole but I don't think they stole everyones coins and dipped.

[amcdon]

It looks like people are successfully getting BTC out of coinmarket.io: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=454186.msg5526950#msg5526950

[richmke]

Essentially, there are a few different things people get confused about.
1) Why profitability seems to drop (the last question here).  This could be solved in the manner that Clevermining has done, by tying it to a % profitability of LTC.  So that when the market as a whole changes, we're still X% of LTC.  It could also be pegged to USD, which takes out the factor of BTC market fluctuations.

I am for displaying all the stats: BTC / 1MH, LTC / 1MH, %LTC, and USD / 1MH
Where LTC/1MH is at the current exchange rate of ... BTC/LTC
Where %LTC is LTC/1MH compared to what we could have expected if mining only LTC
Where USD/1MH is at the current exchange rate of USD/BTC

2) Why the amount earned changes, which is completely dependent on maturation time of blocks, and price fluctuations within that time (auroracoin's 16hr maturation time is a great example).  Any price changes during that 16hrs make us look like we earned more or less during that time period, and as a secondary step of confusion, the amount we "earned" is not the amount we paid for that day (confusing).  One option here is to avoid coins with long maturation periods, and I think this needs to be done a bit (having 90btc earned in auroracoin was probably too much), but when they're more profitable (and the market looks good), I'll have people yelling if we're not mining them.

The other option is to rework our accounting to list approx prices based on when they were mined, rather than prices at the current time.  So if we earned 10 aurora coin when they were worth 1btc each, and the price went up or down, we would continue to show those as worth 1btc each.  This is closer to what people like hashcows do, as they provide stats at the time it was mined, rather than at the time you exchange them for btc.  But it brings up a major problem that during drops in prices, our stats may show that we earned a lot, and paid significantly less, and yet again, more people yelling.

If you are going to rework the accounting system, then I suggest adding a column "BTC gain/(loss) on exchange". So, people can see the gross earnings, and adjustments due to altcoin conversion.

Which brings up a question: Is the gain/loss (including the coinmarket.io problem) charged back to the original accounts, or spread over the current day's account? Since the coins show up as "unexchanged", it can be charged back. Do you distribute BTC on exchanged coins prior to receipt from the exchange? I think coins held at an exchange should show up as "unexchanged BTC_coinmarket", and be distributed when you receive them. Hold them in each person's account as unexchanged. Maybe flag the name of those coins, so we can see our individual exposure.

I think you should only mine coins that are on an established exchange. At a minimum, it shows a certain depth to the market for exchanging the coins.

[skydk]

UPDATE for stats.androidfirmwares.net - stats for wafflepool (using wafflepool's API)

Changing your Bitcoin address is now possible and
Add email and hashrate threshold and receive a warning if your hashrate drops below your target. (will keep sending email every 5 minute if not fixed or lowered)

[apit.malay]

3 day profit with 2.25Mhs rig....its seem ridiculous.....should i leave???or stay here???


Bitcoins earned (not yet sent): 0.00000000
Bitcoins unconverted (approximate): 0.00387310

2014-03-05 16:58:18   0.01416463
2014-03-04 18:08:38   0.01040834   
2014-03-03 17:49:53   0.01275017   

http://wafflepool.com/miner/1Fh3mhNVbs3XaaqdEJsJscAYZp4Grd1LG2

[grippy54]

3 day profit with 2.25Mhs rig....its seem ridiculous.....should i leave???or stay here???

Everyone is low. Check poolpicker.eu

[poolwaffle]

It looks like people are successfully getting BTC out of coinmarket.io: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=454186.msg5526950#msg5526950

I saw a few notes about it too, but I haven't seen the site online in the last few days, not sure what they're talking about (please let me know if you see the site online, I'm only checking a few times a day.

Which brings up a question: Is the gain/loss (including the coinmarket.io problem) charged back to the original accounts, or spread over the current day's account? Since the coins show up as "unexchanged", it can be charged back. Do you distribute BTC on exchanged coins prior to receipt from the exchange? I think coins held at an exchange should show up as "unexchanged BTC_coinmarket", and be distributed when you receive them. Hold them in each person's account as unexchanged. Maybe flag the name of those coins, so we can see our individual exposure.

I think you should only mine coins that are on an established exchange. At a minimum, it shows a certain depth to the market for exchanging the coins.

So, the second part first.  Thats what we do normally, the only exception to that was the coins that we had on coinmarket.io, which we've obviously learned our lesson from.

As for accounting side.  When coins are earned (immature blocks), they're added as "unconfirmed", orphaning removes them from "unconfirmed", confirmation moves them to "unexchanged".  Coins stay as unexchanged until they are sent to the market, are traded out successfully, and processed on our end (note, this does not include the transfer of BTC back to us).  At the current time, I'm not terribly worried about it, only because the chance of us adding another exchange in the short term (until they're large enough) is pretty small, and if cryptsy goes down/gets hacked, we're all pretty screwed anyway.  They've recently added an auto-withdrawal API that I need to get implemented, which will help us slightly, but I doubt that it goes around their hot-wallet limits, which puts us in roughly the same spot we are now anyway.

[Acrobat]

Well done Waffle, you've raped and killed Auroracoin yesterday and the few days before. It's dead for now...and I'm sure you'll blame it entirely on the coin.

If a coin that is made to be mined, is destroyed by said mining, then that coin was poorly written and didn't deserve to be around. There are enough shitcoins floating around without any innovation and are no more than copy/paste's of other coins that suffered the same fate.

Sigh, I'm not going to explain. Read this for example: http://coinshift.com/about/

[poolwaffle]

Well done Waffle, you've raped and killed Auroracoin yesterday and the few days before. It's dead for now...and I'm sure you'll blame it entirely on the coin.

If a coin that is made to be mined, is destroyed by said mining, then that coin was poorly written and didn't deserve to be around. There are enough shitcoins floating around without any innovation and are no more than copy/paste's of other coins that suffered the same fate.

Sigh, I'm not going to explain. Read this for example: http://coinshift.com/about/

Oddly enough, you could also claim that it was destroyed by someone spiking prices on exchanges, making people very excited about it, drawing them in to mining it, and then prices dropping drastically, turning people away from it.  Or you could call these things market forces.  Or you can blame it all on us.  Its really completely up to you.

[zneww]

Well done Waffle, you've raped and killed Auroracoin yesterday and the few days before. It's dead for now...and I'm sure you'll blame it entirely on the coin.

If a coin that is made to be mined, is destroyed by said mining, then that coin was poorly written and didn't deserve to be around. There are enough shitcoins floating around without any innovation and are no more than copy/paste's of other coins that suffered the same fate.

Sigh, I'm not going to explain. Read this for example: http://coinshift.com/about/

Oddly enough, you could also claim that it was destroyed by someone spiking prices on exchanges, making people very excited about it, drawing them in to mining it, and then prices dropping drastically, turning people away from it.  Or you could call these things market forces.  Or you can blame it all on us.  Its really completely up to you.

I BLAME YOU POOLWAFFLE! ITS ALL YOUR FAULT. 

[coyote]

Well done Waffle, you've raped and killed Auroracoin yesterday and the few days before. It's dead for now...and I'm sure you'll blame it entirely on the coin.

If a coin that is made to be mined, is destroyed by said mining, then that coin was poorly written and didn't deserve to be around. There are enough shitcoins floating around without any innovation and are no more than copy/paste's of other coins that suffered the same fate.

Sigh, I'm not going to explain. Read this for example: http://coinshift.com/about/

Loving the subtle plug for a rival pool

[poolwaffle]

Well done Waffle, you've raped and killed Auroracoin yesterday and the few days before. It's dead for now...and I'm sure you'll blame it entirely on the coin.

If a coin that is made to be mined, is destroyed by said mining, then that coin was poorly written and didn't deserve to be around. There are enough shitcoins floating around without any innovation and are no more than copy/paste's of other coins that suffered the same fate.

Sigh, I'm not going to explain. Read this for example: http://coinshift.com/about/

Loving the subtle plug for a rival pool

Whats more fun, is the fact that we do the same thing (mining multiple coins at varying strengths).  Partly for the same reasons (not to hurt the coins), partly for other reasons (our own profitability)

[Acrobat]

Well done Waffle, you've raped and killed Auroracoin yesterday and the few days before. It's dead for now...and I'm sure you'll blame it entirely on the coin.

If a coin that is made to be mined, is destroyed by said mining, then that coin was poorly written and didn't deserve to be around. There are enough shitcoins floating around without any innovation and are no more than copy/paste's of other coins that suffered the same fate.

Sigh, I'm not going to explain. Read this for example: http://coinshift.com/about/

Oddly enough, you could also claim that it was destroyed by someone spiking prices on exchanges, making people very excited about it, drawing them in to mining it, and then prices dropping drastically, turning people away from it.  Or you could call these things market forces.  Or you can blame it all on us.  Its really completely up to you.

Your coin choosing algorithms are a bit simple then if they are affected so much by pumps.   Since you wrecked the coin and need at least 103 confirms before you can trade the coins I'm happy to see you're not going to make much money out of it anyway. Since wrecking the coin, prices are down as well. Block times are high since you left the remaining miners at a very high difficulty, high enough for them to walk away, so you're probably no where near those 103 confirms yet. For once I hope prices will drop further so you'll be left with worthless coins and maybe learn something out of it.

Why don't you divide your 25GH/s hashing power a bit over multiple coins that can handle the load so your coin raping becomes a bit more sustainable? If you don't your 'clients' will keep seeing lowering BTC/MH/day numbers everyday then I guess they'll go back to dedicated mining the coins they themselves believe in or stop mining in any way. Coin profit switching pools like Middlecoin, of which Wafflepool and Cleverming are identical copies are so 1.0, we need a 2.0 version of these types of pools and fortunately they're beginning to surface.

[zneww]

I wish you knew what you were talking about 

[poolwaffle]

Your coin choosing algorithms are a bit simple then if they are affected so much by pumps.   Since you wrecked the coin and need at least 103 confirms before you can trade the coins I'm happy to see you're not going to make much money out of it anyway. Since wrecking the coin, prices are down as well. Block times are high since you left the remaining miners at a very high difficulty, high enough for them to walk away, so you're probably no where near those 103 confirms yet. For once I hope prices will drop further so you'll be left with worthless coins and maybe learn something out of it.

Then we've got a lot of room for improvement, which is awesome

Why don't you divide your 25GH/s hashing power a bit over multiple coins that can handle the load so your coin raping becomes a bit more sustainable?

Isn't this exactly what I said we did?

If you don't your 'clients' will keep seeing lowering BTC/MH/day numbers everyday then I guess they'll go back to dedicated mining the coins they themselves believe in or stop mining in any way. Coin profit switching pools like Middlecoin, of which Wafflepool and Cleverming are identical copies are so 1.0, we need a 2.0 version of these types of pools and fortunately they're beginning to surface.

And I wish coinshift the best of luck (which I assume is who you're talking about).  There's always room for improvement in anything internet related, and I really hope they do something really innovative, its awesome to see people doing neat new things.  That said, I'm not sure exactly what neat things they're doing there, but their graphs are showing that they're mining with about 1/3 of their hashpower constantly  Hopefully just a display issue (everyone knows we've had our fair share).

On the other side, if you're truly concerned with how we're handling which coins we're mining, and how we assign hashpower, please do give meaningful suggestions (suggestions are way better than just "you screwed up" - I can tell when that happens, fixing things is the hard part).  I feel I've been more than receptive to what people want here, and I'd love to hear any suggestions you've got.  I've heard things from "Add smaller coins to eek out that last 1% of profits" and I've heard things like "too risky and it will add variance, stick to major coins/exchanges".  Its tough to please everyone, but I'm trying my best