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Author Topic: [ANN][HUC] Huntercoin - Worlds First Decentralized Game/World on the Blockchain  (Read 853865 times)
MithrilMan
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October 21, 2016, 09:38:29 PM
 #7541

Sorry to hear MithrilMan  Embarrassed

If possible, maybe you could share what the irreconcilable differences were about?

I don't want to create chance to flame or debate on this kind of matters publicly, won't solve anything and won't help the coin too, sorry

Huntercoin: Mithril Edition - Alternative client for Huntercoin - (Discontinued)
HUC: HMSCYGYJ5wo9FiniVU4pXWGUu8E8PSmoHE  - BTC: 1DKLf1QKAZ5njucq37pZhMRG67qXDP3vPC
rant to people who pretend things for free
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October 21, 2016, 09:39:33 PM
 #7542

Sorry to hear that!

I think Monero (XMR) is very interesting.
https://moneroeconomy.com/faq/why-monero-matters
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October 21, 2016, 09:57:49 PM
 #7543

That's unfortunate to hear. I can't say I'm too surprised though. That exchange definitely lifted my brows. Anyway best of luck to you MithrilMan, take care.
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October 21, 2016, 10:52:01 PM
 #7544

Absolutely best of luck to you Mithril regardless what you do, but considering all the effort you and Snailbrain both put in helping a lot of people including me hopefully you and he will just take a breather and sort things out.


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jwinterm
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October 22, 2016, 03:14:21 AM
 #7545

Crosspost from HUC forum:

Has there been any discussion of making the fees for hunter creation dynamic? I think there are a couple of options here:

  • Fees could be tied to the HUC/BTC or HUC/USD price using poloniex API, or some other more elaborate trusted oracle setup. Obviously, this would suck if poloniex suddenly became ded, but there could be a backup that if the API is unreachable fees default to 100 HUC per hunter or something. Another option is to have bitshares like bitusd assets or something that peg the value of HUC internally, which I think is something that wiggi may have discussed at some point in the past.
  • Fees could be tied to the number of hunters on the map at any moment, or the average number of hunters over the last 1000 blocks or something. Then, if the number of hunters was low, fees go down, but if there are lots of folks playing, HUC creation cost rises.

I'm not sure if either of these ideas have been discussed, but it seems like this is an issue that begs for some kind of dynamic solution. It's not really realistic to plan on hardforking everytime there is a price movement of 3-10x or more, imo.
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October 22, 2016, 03:51:44 AM
 #7546

Crosspost from HUC forum:

Has there been any discussion of making the fees for hunter creation dynamic? I think there are a couple of options here:

  • Fees could be tied to the HUC/BTC or HUC/USD price using poloniex API, or some other more elaborate trusted oracle setup. Obviously, this would suck if poloniex suddenly became ded, but there could be a backup that if the API is unreachable fees default to 100 HUC per hunter or something. Another option is to have bitshares like bitusd assets or something that peg the value of HUC internally, which I think is something that wiggi may have discussed at some point in the past.
  • Fees could be tied to the number of hunters on the map at any moment, or the average number of hunters over the last 1000 blocks or something. Then, if the number of hunters was low, fees go down, but if there are lots of folks playing, HUC creation cost rises.

I'm not sure if either of these ideas have been discussed, but it seems like this is an issue that begs for some kind of dynamic solution. It's not really realistic to plan on hardforking everytime there is a price movement of 3-10x or more, imo.

Yes, it's been discussed half to death on that thread you posted on. It was actually the main point of contention. I believe the decision for this fork is that hunter creation cost will stay the same.

If you think about it, as any coin grows bigger, the mining becomes less and less accessible to the masses. We may just have to accept that this is a natural law of crypto. After discussing in that thread, I think (correct me if I'm wrong anyone) that the game wasn't necessarily meant to be profitably mined by everyone. I'm starting to think that that's not such a bad thing. It allows the devs to continue developing and provides them time to work on blockchain optimization without having to worry about sudden bloating of the size. A dominant mining operation won't kill the coin but 0 full nodes will.
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October 22, 2016, 03:58:53 AM
 #7547

Was there discussion of dynamic fees for hunter creation or other actions in there?
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October 22, 2016, 04:22:57 AM
 #7548

I think this coin has died  Shocked

Murch
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October 22, 2016, 04:29:59 AM
 #7549

Was there discussion of dynamic fees for hunter creation or other actions in there?

Yup, check pages 4 and 5 on it.
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October 22, 2016, 04:36:15 AM
 #7550

Was there discussion of dynamic fees for hunter creation or other actions in there?

Yup, check pages 4 and 5 on it.

Oic, think I started on middle of page 5. Thanks Smiley
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October 22, 2016, 04:43:08 AM
 #7551

Was there discussion of dynamic fees for hunter creation or other actions in there?

Yup, check pages 4 and 5 on it.

Oic, think I started on middle of page 5. Thanks Smiley

No problem. Smiley

Like I said though, even if it does change eventually, I don't believe it's happening with this fork.
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October 22, 2016, 05:01:57 AM
 #7552

It's easy to lose sight of the bigger picture when emotions run high, and I hope MM will consider returning once they've boiled over. This coin has not died; on the contrary, it's about to have a new client with blockchain pruning and many addition protocol-level features. Snail is all stressed out because his fiat job and family take up too much time, those problems will be alleviated when Huntercoin goes up more, which it looks poised to do if you're watching the charts.

Until then, though, we have to be realistic about our resources and manpower. For example, while Wiggi's client does have a BitShares-esque system that can theoretically peg the value of an asset, his client is currently handicapped by lack of a spectator mode for Hunters. Basically, it uses commands issued to Hunters to put data on the HUC blockchain, so we need to allow people to have Hunters that they aren't playing with that could get killed.

The fork we're implementing includes a spectator mode, so once it's out, this whole conversation about dynamic Hunter fees becomes more grounded in reality. Right now, we're just picking some fee and Hunter values to get us through to the next fork, where the real fun begins. Even if Hunter cost and fees did go up considerably, spectator mode--and standard names, another feature enabling third-party games on the blockchain--would provide lower stakes alternatives.

A subsequent fork will likely also include things like additional maps, where one is more noob-friendly than the other. We can also incorporate the testnet into the client, so they can practice without consequence. For now, though, we just gotta compromise on a fee structure. I was able to talk SnailBrain and wiggi down to 100 HUC for Hunters, a 50% reduction  Tongue

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October 22, 2016, 04:33:35 PM
 #7553

Ok so I am interested still but what mithrilman said is disencouraging especially since I have never even played yet. I guess I'll save my extra coin till I can get a character. Then get killed.... Lol Can't someone else run the client ? What is needed ?

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October 22, 2016, 05:30:29 PM
 #7554

Ok so I am interested still but what mithrilman said is disencouraging especially since I have never even played yet. I guess I'll save my extra coin till I can get a character. Then get killed.... Lol Can't someone else run the client ? What is needed ?

better wait until the game rule change is in effect, or you won't have much fun Tongue

final testnet in a box:
http://forum.huntercoin.org/index.php/topic,22265.msg30111.html#msg30111

I played with this for 1000 blocks after fork, and the new Huntercore node and the old Qt clients work well together. No bugs.

And, partial ghosting of coins is in:


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October 22, 2016, 07:45:29 PM
 #7555

I've had hunter coins for ages now, made significant losses, but I don't blame the development team. The developments in this coin are interesting, innovative and fun. The crypto market ain't always fair when it comes to pricing according to coin fundamentals.

Keep it up! Cheers.


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October 23, 2016, 04:52:50 AM
 #7556

Crosspost from HUC forum:

Has there been any discussion of making the fees for hunter creation dynamic? I think there are a couple of options here:

...

...

If you think about it, as any coin grows bigger, the mining becomes less and less accessible to the masses. We may just have to accept that this is a natural law of crypto. After discussing in that thread, I think (correct me if I'm wrong anyone) that the game wasn't necessarily meant to be profitably mined by everyone. I'm starting to think that that's not such a bad thing. It allows the devs to continue developing and provides them time to work on blockchain optimization without having to worry about sudden bloating of the size. A dominant mining operation won't kill the coin but 0 full nodes will.

As price increases vs fiat then more money is available to miners. Right now huntercoin is worth 0.02 usd or 2 u.s. cents. At that price most people in the world outside the wealthiest countries are prevented from playing. If the price were usd 1 per huntercoin it would be as it has been. Almost nobody could afford to play unless the price drops dramatically and since there is no way to predict the future price, game cost should be either dynamic, cheap or free.

You are using the phrase 'profitably mined' but the thing that huntercoin offers is 'human mining' which in crypto is going to be a tidal wave eventually, as more and more people realize that they can use the mining of a currency to motivate some human interaction with a computer. The big issue is that if the price were low enough mining farms might take over the coin in poor countries, as is happening with neucoin, which is being dominated by poor Asian workers. Huntercoin should step in front of neucoin and others in that market.  The 'profitably mined' issue is trivial compared to the potential growth of the coin if it is sent wild into poor countries. A very fair coin like huntercoin, which offered practical human mining, i.e., a reasonable fee that did not exclude poor countries, would be a news event.




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October 23, 2016, 05:24:54 AM
 #7557

final testnet in a box:
http://forum.huntercoin.org/index.php/topic,22265.msg30111.html#msg30111

I played with this for 1000 blocks after fork, and the new Huntercore node and the old Qt clients work well together. No bugs.

And, partial ghosting of coins is in:


Alright, so to summarize for everybody who glanced over the development work going on: we've pretty much decided upon what's going into this upcoming hardfork. You can test the new protocol by checking that link Wiggi provided, but it's not yet hooked up to the official testnet you can access via Huntercoin QT. It's like a testnet in a box, with you being the only node, connecting to yourself with 3 different test clients.

It can, however, test the new Huntercore client (will enable blockchain pruning), but you can't yet play the game on it. Gameplay changes must be tested on one of the older clients. You can see the spawn/bank ring around the coin farms, now, and I think that coin ghosting will also appear once you've mined to the block where it begins. I'm trying to make that work on my Windows machine, now, and recommend others do the same. Once domob has approved it on the official testnet, we can plan a launch date.

This plan should give enough time for any bugs to arise. We'll be able to get Huntercore glitch-free in that time, too, and also work on updating the external unity client so it plays well with Huntercore and its pruning, and visually registers the gameplay changes in the hardfork.

Speaking of which, here is a list of the new features/changes included in this upcoming fork:

  • Tile reduction. New Hunters spawn and also bank at a ring of tiles around coin farms, instead of at random locations around the map. You can see the ring in the above screenshot. This enables you to get in and out of the action more quickly, an improvement for casual players. We estimate a reduction in minimum required play time from over an hour to around 15 minutes.
  • Coin ghosting. According to a specific pattern--part of which is visible in the above image--coins on certain tiles will be unlootable, and will instead accumulate and pile up until the ghosting period ends. This forces players with entrenched positions to move around, and causes a flood of players to attack those positions to get the piled up coins.
  • Spectator mode. Hunters start the game in an unattackable state, which lasts a few chronons or until they move or launch an attack of their own. This gives them time to decide if they want to spawn there (could be too crowded) and plan. If they stay still the whole period, they go into spectator mode permanently, making them not part of the game. Wiggi's client with games on top of the Huntercoin blockchain needs this for its 2.0 functionality, as it uses Hunters to store information in the blockchain.
  • Lower costs. Once the fork goes live, a timer will count down until the cost of creating a Hunter goes from 200 HUC to 100 HUC. Also, the fees for creating Hunters and using the Destruct ability will be reduced to a fraction of what they were.

Somewhere along the way, in-between now and the fork's launch, I'll also resume the Huntercoin marketing campaign. Expect articles and such. Considering the tiny number of Huntercoin developers, I think the extent of the changes are pretty impressive, so we should all try to spread the word.

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October 23, 2016, 05:59:28 AM
 #7558

    ...
    • Lower costs. Once the fork goes live, a timer will count down until the cost of creating a Hunter goes from 200 HUC to 100 HUC. Also, the fees for creating Hunters and using the Destruct ability will be reduced to a fraction of what they were.

    ...

    At new lower price now then it costs somebody usd $2.20 to create a hunter. $2.20 is a lot of money in some places.

    Some countries that are ripe for human mining, with per capita gdp.

    The first coin to plug cafes with miners may be a milestone in crypto. At least a few of these countries have cheap internet cafes.

    161   VIETNAM   $6,000   2015 EST.
    162   NIUE   $5,800   2003 EST.
    163   TIMOR-LESTE   $5,600   2015 EST.
    164   BURMA   $5,500   2015 EST.
    165   LAOS   $5,300   2015 EST.
    166   SAMOA   $5,200   2015 EST.
    167   TONGA   $5,100   2015 EST.
    168   SYRIA   $5,100   2011 EST.
    169   MOLDOVA   $5,000   2015 EST.
    170   PAKISTAN   $5,000   2015 EST.
    171   NICARAGUA   $5,000   2015 EST.
    172   HONDURAS   $4,900   2015 EST.
    173   MAURITANIA   $4,400   2015 EST.
    174   SUDAN   $4,300   2015 EST.
    175   GHANA   $4,300   2015 EST.
    176   WEST BANK   $4,300   2014 EST.
    177   ZAMBIA   $3,900   2015 EST.
    178   WALLIS AND FUTUNA   $3,800   2004 EST.
    179   BANGLADESH   $3,600   2015 EST.
    180   CAMBODIA   $3,500   2015 EST.
    181   KYRGYZSTAN   $3,400   2015 EST.
    182   TUVALU   $3,400   2015 EST.
    183   COTE D'IVOIRE   $3,300   2015 EST.
    184   SAO TOME AND PRINCIPE   $3,200   2015 EST.
    185   MARSHALL ISLANDS   $3,200   2015 EST.
    186   KENYA   $3,200   2015 EST.
    187   DJIBOUTI   $3,200   2015 EST.
    188   CAMEROON   $3,100   2015 EST.
    189   LESOTHO   $3,000   2015 EST.
    190   MICRONESIA, FEDERATED STATES OF   $3,000   2015 EST.
    191   TANZANIA   $2,900   2015 EST.
    192   TAJIKISTAN   $2,700   2015 EST.
    193   PAPUA NEW GUINEA   $2,700   2015 EST.
    194   YEMEN   $2,700   2015 EST.
    195   CHAD   $2,600   2015 EST.
    196   SENEGAL   $2,500   2015 EST.
    197   NEPAL   $2,500   2015 EST.
    198   VANUATU   $2,500   2015 EST.
    199   WESTERN SAHARA   $2,500   2007 EST.
    200   MALI   $2,200   2015 EST.
    201   BENIN   $2,100   2015 EST.
    202   ZIMBABWE   $2,100   2015 EST.
    203   SOUTH SUDAN   $2,000   2015 EST.
    204   UGANDA   $2,000   2015 EST.
    205   SOLOMON ISLANDS   $1,900   2015 EST.
    206   AFGHANISTAN   $1,900   2015 EST.
    207   RWANDA   $1,800   2015 EST.
    208   ETHIOPIA   $1,800   2015 EST.
    209   KIRIBATI   $1,800   2015 EST.
    210   KOREA, NORTH   $1,800   2014 EST.
    211   HAITI   $1,800   2015 EST.
    212   BURKINA FASO   $1,700   2015 EST.
    213   GAMBIA, THE   $1,600   2015 EST.
    214   SIERRA LEONE   $1,600   2015 EST.
    215   TOGO   $1,500   2015 EST.
    216   GUINEA-BISSAU   $1,500   2015 EST.
    217   MADAGASCAR   $1,500   2015 EST.
    218   COMOROS   $1,500   2015 EST.
    219   ERITREA   $1,300   2015 EST.
    220   MOZAMBIQUE   $1,200   2015 EST.
    221   GUINEA   $1,200   2015 EST.
    222   NIGER   $1,100   2015 EST.
    223   MALAWI   $1,100   2015 EST.
    224   TOKELAU   $1,000   1993 EST.
    225   LIBERIA   $900   2015 EST.
    226   CONGO, DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF THE   $800   2015 EST.
    227   BURUNDI   $800   2015 EST.
    228   CENTRAL AFRICAN REPUBLIC   $600   2015 EST.
    229   SOMALIA   $400   2014 EST.

    https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html[/list]

    edit to add

    ...
    I know, but we can't really tackle that until the next fork without destabilizing the game. At that point, things like pegged Hunter costs or dynamic ones are more realistic. It would ideally happen next year, at which point we could do things like have 2 maps, one with cheaper costs and one with more expensive costs. We could also create an account system to solve the issue of a Dominator exploiting cheap Hunters to flood the map.

    A lot of big development issues ahead on top of what seem like major changes recently. It would be helpful to the coin to have more developers and hopefully somebody who is familiar with the personalities involved can mediate something that lets Snailbrain and Mithril work together without bloodshed. I don't know at all what the argument was but it should be solvable.


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    October 23, 2016, 06:05:51 AM
     #7559

    ...
    • Lower costs. Once the fork goes live, a timer will count down until the cost of creating a Hunter goes from 200 HUC to 100 HUC. Also, the fees for creating Hunters and using the Destruct ability will be reduced to a fraction of what they were.

    ...

    At new lower price now then it costs somebody usd $2.20 to create a hunter. $2.20 is a lot of money in some places.

    Some countries that are ripe for human mining, with per capita gdp.

    The first coin to plug cafes with miners may be a milestone in crypto....

    I know, but we can't really tackle that until the next fork without destabilizing the game. At that point, things like pegged Hunter costs or dynamic ones are more realistic. It would ideally happen next year, at which point we could do things like have 2 maps, one with cheaper costs and one with more expensive costs. We could also create an account system to solve the issue of a Dominator exploiting cheap Hunters to flood the map.

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    October 23, 2016, 02:54:16 PM
     #7560

    Crosspost from HUC forum:

    Has there been any discussion of making the fees for hunter creation dynamic? I think there are a couple of options here:

    ...

    ...

    If you think about it, as any coin grows bigger, the mining becomes less and less accessible to the masses. We may just have to accept that this is a natural law of crypto. After discussing in that thread, I think (correct me if I'm wrong anyone) that the game wasn't necessarily meant to be profitably mined by everyone. I'm starting to think that that's not such a bad thing. It allows the devs to continue developing and provides them time to work on blockchain optimization without having to worry about sudden bloating of the size. A dominant mining operation won't kill the coin but 0 full nodes will.

    As price increases vs fiat then more money is available to miners. Right now huntercoin is worth 0.02 usd or 2 u.s. cents. At that price most people in the world outside the wealthiest countries are prevented from playing. If the price were usd 1 per huntercoin it would be as it has been. Almost nobody could afford to play unless the price drops dramatically and since there is no way to predict the future price, game cost should be either dynamic, cheap or free.

    You are using the phrase 'profitably mined' but the thing that huntercoin offers is 'human mining' which in crypto is going to be a tidal wave eventually, as more and more people realize that they can use the mining of a currency to motivate some human interaction with a computer. The big issue is that if the price were low enough mining farms might take over the coin in poor countries, as is happening with neucoin, which is being dominated by poor Asian workers. Huntercoin should step in front of neucoin and others in that market.  The 'profitably mined' issue is trivial compared to the potential growth of the coin if it is sent wild into poor countries. A very fair coin like huntercoin, which offered practical human mining, i.e., a reasonable fee that did not exclude poor countries, would be a news event.




    You completely missed the point I was trying to make. First of all, we went into far more detail about all this in the gameplay changes thread on the huntercoin forum, so take a look through that. I was also advocating for a lower cost to open it up to more people. The issue with doing so is that it would make the blockchain way too big. On the order of at least several hundred gigs eventually. And the point I was making in my post is that mining always becomes prohibitively expensive to normal people as the market cap grows. Are you sure you understand how expensive it is to mine bitcoin? or litecoin? or dogecoin? Any coin with a market cap above 1M?

    It will never be possible for people in those countries to actually make a decent amount off of something like huntercoin. That's a pipe dream. Huntercoin mining is a competitive game for money. That in itself makes what you're suggesting impossible. Only way you could change that is to remove the competitive, which would be silly.
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