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Author Topic: [ANN][HUC] Huntercoin - Worlds First Decentralized Game/World on the Blockchain  (Read 853865 times)
Murch
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September 20, 2016, 07:15:24 AM
 #7481

And with the current cost of 200 HUC to summon a hunter plus the price where it is right now, it's about $3-4 per hunter. If the game scales up to more players in the future, I can envision a stable price at least 10x what it currently is. If the goal is to make the game accessible to as many people as possible, how could the average player be expected to throw down $30-40 (or more) for a single crack at playing? Is there some plan in place to address radical changes in HUC value? Or is this not actually a problem?

From what I understand, the game becomes prohibitively more expensive as it increases in popularity. I very much understand where Huntercoin is coming from from a conceptual standpoint. I just don't understand it from an economics standpoint.

This is a problem, yes. We are already discussing what changes to make in the next fork after Huntercore on the Huntercoin forum. Lowering the fees was one of the first things agreed upon, although by exactly how much, we're not yet sure.

Thanks for the quick response. Smiley I'll read through that thread and see if I can think of anything to contribute.
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MithrilMan
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September 20, 2016, 02:11:31 PM
 #7482

Where did you actually store your custom data? if you don't include them on standard transaction, than you are just playing on a fork (is this intended? I think isn't good because it causes players fragmentation and this isn't something we wants I'd say).

Relax, the blockchain is the same, and the coins are also the same.

Fortunately, the blockchain chat messages allow to store "extra data" in the blockchain that has no meaning for the coin.
(transaction messages would serve the same purpose)



This is why I don't understand how this could work without having implemented a mechanism that store your custom data in ANY huntercoin blockchain, because if you imagine that in a precise moment, your custom game players are composed by just 1 single player (just an extreme example), no other nodes (standard clients) have historical custom data to send back to your custom client, so this ends up in not being synchronized with your custom game because you lack information, but you don't know that for sure because for your daemon the synchronization is fine because you received standard huntercoin blocks and transactions.

You are mistaken about the "custom data to send" part. There is nothing to send.

Both standard clients and betterQt or any other hypothetical "non-standard" client receive standard huntercoin blocks and transactions, and only standard huntercoin blocks and transactions.

If the custom game players are composed by not 1, but 0 players, and the network consists of only standard clients, the custom game would continue normally (even if no one is there to watch, and physically the calculations are done only when a non-standard client catches up with the blockchain)





I'm not worried about HUC coins but about custom gamestate correctness but even more on junk transactions:
if only your nodes can validate your custom transaction (in therm of content and not on cryptographical correctness) this mean that huntercoin can't discharge invalid game transaction because huntercoin doesn't know custom game rules, so you could easily see (if some wants to ddos is very easy) lots of junk transactions (maybe even not malicious one but because of a program error) and you'll see a 1000 transactions block of nonsense data

anyway i'm writing on the other forum about a proposal for rulesets definition, that can't resolve this issue (with current huntercoin features) but can help in future and can ease the validation process even now

Huntercoin: Mithril Edition - Alternative client for Huntercoin - (Discontinued)
HUC: HMSCYGYJ5wo9FiniVU4pXWGUu8E8PSmoHE  - BTC: 1DKLf1QKAZ5njucq37pZhMRG67qXDP3vPC
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September 20, 2016, 08:00:32 PM
 #7483

I'm not worried about HUC coins but about custom gamestate correctness but even more on junk transactions:
if only your nodes can validate your custom transaction (in therm of content and not on cryptographical correctness) this mean that huntercoin can't discharge invalid game transaction because huntercoin doesn't know custom game rules, so you could easily see (if some wants to ddos is very easy) lots of junk transactions (maybe even not malicious one but because of a program error) and you'll see a 1000 transactions block of nonsense data

His client just uses the client's built-in messaging system and send coin transactions to interact with the blockchain... if somebody wanted to DDoS or bloat the chain, they could already do that. There is nothing stopping anybody from inserting data into the blockchain as they please, so long as they're conforming to the protocol. Let's hope they don't.

Unintentional bloat seemed like more of a concern to me, so I asked wiggi about that a few pages back. He claims it's having very little effect on block size, at least when working as intended.

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September 20, 2016, 08:08:02 PM
 #7484

Maybe some interesting links on this website http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/ will help devs.

add
There is huge money available for grants in fields in which Huntercoin develops. Some single grants are worth more than the Huntercoin marketcap, e.g. http://www.eecs.umich.edu/eecs/about/articles/2016/Jenkins_NSF_Grant.html . Generally these grants go to academics, but a good grant writer who was familiar both with ai and Huntercoin could probably snag some, if his or her credentials were decent.

http://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/robotics/



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wiggi
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September 20, 2016, 08:23:32 PM
 #7485

Cortez's test (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=435170.msg16080926#msg16080926) is finished.
he had 2.78 gems + 0.11 immature gems (from trading profits) and requested settlement of 2.7 (at 1980 per piece = 5346)

The automatic process went like this:
liquidity fund grabbed 0.5 of his gems
auctioned off 2.2 (sold at 1260 = 2772)
liquidity fund auctioned off 2.0 of it's own coins for Cortez (sold at 1250 = 2500)
Cortez was paid a total of 5272 coins (remaining 74 is 74/1250=0,0592 gems, less than auction minimum of 0.1 gems, refunded 0.05 gems)
he still owns 0.08 + 0.11 + 0.05 = 0.24 gems

This is also the intended behavior, not perfect but it works.



I just Googled "lemure" and found out its a creature from Dungeons & Dragons, haha.

I think these guys don't really like each other, and the map had a balancing problem: it was possible to spawn a group at "lemure spawnpoint #1"
shortly before the "new gem spawn" resets, this pretty much would always succeed.

So the rules are now updated (and a technical description in the readme)

"2 lemures, if in spell range, will pelt each other with a weak lightning attack for (1d8 - 1) damage per chronon."  Tongue


It will run together with the normal Huntercoin game in the client, and I think they won't step on each others toes.



I'm not worried about HUC coins but about custom gamestate correctness

There's a strong way and a weak way to enforce gamestate correctness.
The strong way is, when any code is changed, also to put more variables in the gamestate (to make an incompatible new version, currently it's the 4th version) and generate a new gamestate from scratch by replaying the blockchain. If done, everything must look exactly like with the previous version of course.
The weak way is a shelf-life for the client (Use it 1 block longer and it puts a big warning on the Huc:Gem auction page that doesn't go away, because the gamestate has missed data and is no longer correct)



Unintentional bloat seemed like more of a concern to me, so I asked wiggi about that a few pages back. He claims it's having very little effect on block size, at least when working as intended.

It's usually 1 trade = 1 or 2 transactions.
And 1 creature = 1 tx. (for it's entire lifetime)

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September 20, 2016, 10:17:24 PM
 #7486

There is huge money available for grants in fields in which Huntercoin develops. Some single grants are worth more than the Huntercoin marketcap, e.g. http://www.eecs.umich.edu/eecs/about/articles/2016/Jenkins_NSF_Grant.html . Generally these grants go to academics, but a good grant writer who was familiar both with ai and Huntercoin could probably snag some, if his or her credentials were decent.

http://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/robotics/

Do any of us have credentials? I think we're just a bunch of hackers, but it's worth asking.

I just Googled "lemure" and found out its a creature from Dungeons & Dragons, haha.

I think these guys don't really like each other, and the map had a balancing problem: it was possible to spawn a group at "lemure spawnpoint #1"
shortly before the "new gem spawn" resets, this pretty much would always succeed.

So the rules are now updated (and a technical description in the readme)

"2 lemures, if in spell range, will pelt each other with a weak lightning attack for (1d8 - 1) damage per chronon."  Tongue



It will run together with the normal Huntercoin game in the client, and I think they won't step on each others toes.

Soo basically you made the lemures start killing each other with lightning because you thought there were too many or they were too powerful compared to the zombies?

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September 20, 2016, 10:39:10 PM
 #7487


Do any of us have credentials? I think we're just a bunch of hackers, but it's worth asking.

...

It comes down to grant writing.

At some point in the future grants for things like ai will probably go to a mix of academics and cryptocurrencies.

Just something to start noticing.


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wiggi
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September 23, 2016, 04:23:57 PM
 #7488


Soo basically you made the lemures start killing each other with lightning because you thought there were too many or they were too powerful compared to the zombies?

More like they can do a speedrun if in a group. Then players could just send them at the optimal time, but I want that it requires some strategic thinking to win.

I also thought that probably no one will play this because it's too much hassle to set up a vault when you first need to make a hunter and all.

Then there is this line in the console help:
Code:
sendtoaddress <huntercoinaddress> <amount> [comment] [comment-to] [tag-string]

What tag? Could it be... a transaction message? (it is) So I added another function that allows instant storage vault setup just with coins, no hunter. Readme will read as follows:


New: instant creation of storage vaults (20160923)
enabled on mainnet after block 1400000
======================================

(Cortez's test continues, first part was conversion of gems to coins at a fixed rate, see
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=435170.msg16312993#msg16312993)

After block 1400000, it will be possible to convert coins to gems at a fixed rate,
instantly, trustless, and with a single (atomic) transaction.

While Cortez's Huntercoin address (HMFESBYnkoTHYVtyMyFVDFXQG5R1nkAzZX) still belongs to the
same user (wiggi), it's also a game entity now, and can act independently
with no need of a specific node being online.


Example use (see also "help sendtoaddress" in the client's console window):

to send gems to the storage vault of "some_huntercoinaddress" (will be created it not already existing):
sendtoaddress HMFESBYnkoTHYVtyMyFVDFXQG5R1nkAzZX coin_amount comment1 comment2 "GEM some_huntercoinaddress"

to donate 1k coins worth of gems:
sendtoaddress HMFESBYnkoTHYVtyMyFVDFXQG5R1nkAzZX 1000.0 comment1 comment2 "GEM HMFESBYnkoTHYVtyMyFVDFXQG5R1nkAzZX"


Notes:
- the coin:gem rate is variable and taken from the in-game auction settlement
- standard fee of 0.02 gems for storage vault generation applies
- this function uses the "transaction comment", aka OP_RETURN
- in Huntercore client and daemon, sendtoaddress command is different.
  They probably can't be used for this right now.

- Each gem bought will result in -1 "immature gems from trade P/L" for Cortez, with a hard limit of -100
- the total amount of gems in existence will be unchanged (but short term spike of gems in circulation is possible)
- The adventurers inventory page (adventurers.txt) will state the available amount,
  recalculated for each block


Thats about it. We'll see if it really works on mainnet. But that's the way to do smart contracts in Huntercoin, by making a modded client. I'd have no problems to run several of them at the same time if my "accounts", perhaps addresses + a hunter in spectator mode for added functionality, will naturally show up in all of them and can interact with all of them.

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September 24, 2016, 02:45:07 PM
 #7489

Sounds super neat wiggi, but I have a hard time grasping all the details. I'll try to give it a shot when you make a mainnet version. Will it work with the same blockchain files as huntercore (I know it's same blockchain, but are you storing/parsing anything differently I guess)?
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September 25, 2016, 07:02:19 PM
 #7490

Sounds super neat wiggi, but I have a hard time grasping all the details. I'll try to give it a shot when you make a mainnet version. Will it work with the same blockchain files as huntercore (I know it's same blockchain, but are you storing/parsing anything differently I guess)?

It's ready for mainnet now. Newest github or Windows build from today (20160925, linked in github readme) is required.

Works with the same blockchain files as Huntercoin v1.3, but not Huntercore yet. Copy the gamestate file game_sv4.dat to the data folder (where game.dat already is).
And the blockchain must be equally or more up-to-date than the gamestate file (or it may crash)

For the anonymous zombie in the pic, I did "Receive coins"|"New Address", which happened to be "HSoxogPWFQCyApNzcQMQPCMV9c9FBDLWru".
Then I did:

sendtoaddress HMFESBYnkoTHYVtyMyFVDFXQG5R1nkAzZX 250 comment1 comment2 "GEM HSoxogPWFQCyApNzcQMQPCMV9c9FBDLWru"

to create the storage vault at this address.

and then sent 3023.60005501 HUC with the normal "Send coins" tab to HSoxogPWFQCyApNzcQMQPCMV9c9FBDLWru

3023.6000 is actually not a good order, 3025.8000 would make the zombie wait and teleport earlier.

Also there's no point in making lemures until at least 18..20 zombies exist and 1 or 2 are near the spawnpoint, because lemures have only 100 blocks before they must make their first kill.



The big 4-gems prize will spawn for the first time at block 1400976



edit: all stats are now in adventurers.txt, including how successfull a creature was during its lifetime

Code:
Inventory (chronon 1400520, mainnet)
 ------------------------------------
                                                                                   (raw coin amount)
                                          hunter                         conjured           magic                                       found
storage vault key                           name      gems    outfit     creature  order    number     age    position   life  magicka  gems  state state2

HSoxogPWFQCyApNzcQMQPCMV9c9FBDLWru        anon72      0.06          -      zombie  3023.6000 5501       446    498,207    100    100     0.00    0    0

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September 26, 2016, 03:36:07 PM
 #7491

Dibs range is 5 tiles. Coming closer to the spawn while randomly shuffling around instantly gives the gem.

Looks like everything is running perfectly





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September 26, 2016, 04:01:55 PM
 #7492

Dibs range is 5 tiles. Coming closer to the spawn while randomly shuffling around instantly gives the gem.

Looks like everything is running perfectly





So, calling dibs on a gem prevents others from picking it up? I don't actually see a gem on the map, though.

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September 26, 2016, 04:42:19 PM
 #7493


So, calling dibs on a gem prevents others from picking it up? I don't actually see a gem on the map, though.

Yes, not infinite supply. They have been picked up on both gem spawnpoints now and will respawn at block 1402218 (I trust Tia'tha on this)

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September 26, 2016, 10:21:42 PM
 #7494


So, calling dibs on a gem prevents others from picking it up? I don't actually see a gem on the map, though.

Yes, not infinite supply. They have been picked up on both gem spawnpoints now and will respawn at block 1402218 (I trust Tia'tha on this)

What if I don't trust Tia'tha? Tongue

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September 27, 2016, 02:22:58 AM
 #7495

Just discovered this thread just now. Am I too late to join the party?  Shocked

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September 27, 2016, 08:29:09 PM
 #7496


Yes, not infinite supply. They have been picked up on both gem spawnpoints now and will respawn at block 1402218 (I trust Tia'tha on this)

What if I don't trust Tia'tha? Tongue

By now they respawned, were picked up again, and have respawned a third time (and were picked up again). 5 zombies have harvested gems, one of them 2 times.

If you see a lemure that does nothing then it's not a bug, they can't cast without magicka.


Just discovered this thread just now. Am I too late to join the party?  Shocked

It's 2 totally different parties Tongue

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September 30, 2016, 03:21:27 AM
 #7497


Someone put in lots of buy orders around that line, there... probably the guy who was trying (and failing) to buy lots of coins earlier without raising the price. Kudos to you, guy!

After the last spike, daily trading bot activity took the price steadily down, but they couldn't break that support line. The price went sidways for a bit until they gave up; now it's bouncing around.

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September 30, 2016, 05:11:43 AM
 #7498

probably the guy who was trying (and failing) to buy lots of coins earlier without raising the price. Kudos to you, guy!

Haha, that might have been me. Although those walls up right now aren't mine. Good to know there are more players at this level. Smiley Though I'd honestly prefer the price to come back down to sub 2k so I can pick up more at my leisure, but the market seems to be saying no. D:

I was looking through the market caps of every coin on Polo earlier. I think there were maybe 4-5 that were smaller than HUC's, but I don't think any of them have any real development going on. Just a fun fact.
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October 10, 2016, 11:48:04 AM
 #7499

so pump and dump crew targeting all the small marketcap coins on Poloniex.

HUC is due for a massive pump then....

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October 10, 2016, 12:26:40 PM
 #7500

so pump and dump crew targeting all the small marketcap coins on Poloniex.

HUC is due for a massive pump then....

HUC is so undervalued

The price should be at over 10000 sats


Pump HUC!!!
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