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Question: Ethnic cleansing of Russian speaking by Kiev forces is the main cause of clashes in Donbass area.
True. - 54 (51.4%)
This is Khasarian Kaganat and Russians must be killed or must be sclaves. - 29 (27.6%)
What is Donbass? - 5 (4.8%)
Where is Kiev? - 4 (3.8%)
My TV show only Israeli clashes. - 13 (12.4%)
Total Voters: 105

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Author Topic: Donetsk, Kharkov, Lugansk - way to Russia.  (Read 734778 times)
bryant.coleman
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February 13, 2016, 06:20:01 PM
 #7621

Bryant, the short history of Ukrainian "language" - in reality a local dialect, to which a partially latinised alphabet was adapted, an then enforced by the Austrians - is quite interesting. I'll have a publication on that later.

The funny thing is: if Ukrainian is a language, then transferring this attitude to Norway, one must admit that Bergensian, Trondheimian, Stavangerian are all different languages, which have nothing to do with Norwegian. Smiley

I don't have any issue at all, if they want to upgrade a dialect to a full-fledged language. But they should not impose it on anyone. In some of the former Yugoslav nations, they have already done that. For example, Bosnian, Serbian and Croat are essentially the same language. But they have artificially separated the language based on ethnicity. It is like saying that American English is a separate language, when compared to the Australian version of English.
Nemo1024
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February 13, 2016, 10:32:57 PM
Last edit: February 13, 2016, 10:52:56 PM by Nemo1024
 #7622

Except Ukrainian has a different alphabet than Russian.

Not at all. Ukrainian is basically Russian - Cyrillic - alphabet with 2 Latin characters (i and ї) inserted by the alphabet's creator Pantilemon Kulish to record particularities in the Galician dialect at the end of 1800s.

For graphical comparison see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrillic_alphabets

By that extension, write down particularities of Arkhangelsk speech, publish it as an "alphabet" and hey presto, you have country Arkhangelenia with nationality Arkhangelian. Neat, eh?


The following interview fragment is exceptionally telling:

http://www.aif.ru/society/people/ne_berite_primer_s_ameriki



(Grigori Krasovskij was born in Moscow in 1968, emigrated to USA in 1978 with his mother and grandmother (translator: I suspect by "the Jewish line" - the only way one could emigrate from USSR at that time), finished Columbian University, served in Police force of Florida, made a carrier as a lawyer. Moved back to Moscow. )

Quote
We arrived in Lugansk in early May 2014. We saw on TV what happened in Odessa, Slavyansk, Mariupol, Kramatorsk, and hoped that we still had time to visit relatives. My grandmother was 98 years old, my mother was 71. But after they were killed, this trip changed my life.

We watched the referendum (on the independence of Donbass - Ed.). I saw how people voluntarily and willingly went to vote. I saw the local guys who did not want nationalists to come bossing them. No "Russian occupiers" were there. Grandmother's lived on the southern outskirts of Lugansk, 150 meters from her house - the headquarters of border guards of the area. I went jogging there in the mornings and suddenly discovered that my smartphone's GPS was off-line. And that can only be done on the Pentagon's orders: they cut civil frequency, so that only military can use GPS for aiming. Later, I learned that at the outpost at the time there were several foreign experts, including one "American".

When I sent the request to Obama, I clearly knew that the actions of the Ukrainian military in Donbass, of the National Guard, of all of these battalions was supervised by US experts - from the CIA, the Pentagon and PMCs (private military companies - Ed.). I wish that the perpetrators are held accountable for everything that happened in Donbass. When they are killing women, children and the elderly - and not only by bombs and mines, but also hunger, lack of medicines, the blockade of issuing pensions - it is a crime against humanity.

I tried to appeal to the foreign media. But they told me that they were clearly warned - no articles on the subject. This applies even to the so-called opposition publications, such as "The Guardian." If you try to understand the conflict in Ukraine, you can learn more truth from the Russian media, than from CNN, BBC, Deutsche Welle and the rest. In America, more than 93% of the media is owned by five corporate groups, and behind them are the same financial investors, who control both the Democratic and the Republican parties. Therefore an average American will hear only what they want him to hear.

...

“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.”
“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
“It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
bryant.coleman
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February 14, 2016, 06:37:26 AM
 #7623

Maybe you should update that wikipedia page because section 2.1.3 under East Slavic languages is incorrect according to you, i.e. that Ukrainian is basically Russian.  See what will happen if you do that.

By your logic all these other languages are basically "Russian". Cool

Wikipedia is not an authentic source for information. It can be edited by anyone.

That said, I am not claiming that all Slavic languages are the same. They are not. For example, Polish is as different from Russian as French is from English. But that doesn't hide the fact that the differences between Ukrainian and Russian are mostly artificial. Just like the differences between the Croat language and Serb language.
galdur
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February 14, 2016, 08:43:39 AM
 #7624

I think it´s a Russian dialect of a Russian borderland. It´s a country that doesn´t seem to have much of a national identity much less unity. An artificial construct.

bryant.coleman
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February 14, 2016, 09:06:08 AM
 #7625

I think it´s a Russian dialect of a Russian borderland. It´s a country that doesn´t seem to have much of a national identity much less unity. An artificial construct.

Even if you consider the Ukrainian language as separate from Russian, that doesn't hide the fact that it is not the native language of the vast majority of the Ukrainian residents. The official "Ukrainian language" is native only to a small part of Western Ukraine, especially in the oblasts of Lvov, Ternopol, Rivne and Volyn. It was never spoken in the other parts of Ukraine.
galdur
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February 14, 2016, 09:12:34 AM
 #7626

I think it´s a Russian dialect of a Russian borderland. It´s a country that doesn´t seem to have much of a national identity much less unity. An artificial construct.

Even if you consider the Ukrainian language as separate from Russian, that doesn't hide the fact that it is not the native language of the vast majority of the Ukrainian residents. The official "Ukrainian language" is native only to a small part of Western Ukraine, especially in the oblasts of Lvov, Ternopol, Rivne and Volyn. It was never spoken in the other parts of Ukraine.

Yes of course. Russian is widely spoken. At least in the traditional Russian parts of this land I guess.

And now the nutsos in charge are trying to force national unity on people. Like that one has worked well in history. Of course the other side of that coin is usually ethnic cleansing.

Vika NSFW
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February 14, 2016, 10:34:47 AM
 #7627



"Victory" condoms.

Vika NSFW
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February 14, 2016, 11:39:53 AM
 #7628

But they have artificially separated the language based on ethnicity.

Based on Monotheist Religions.

Nemo1024
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February 14, 2016, 01:54:12 PM
 #7629

Except Ukrainian has a different alphabet than Russian.

Not at all. Ukrainian is basically Russian - Cyrillic - alphabet with 2 Latin characters (i and ї) inserted by the alphabet's creator Pantilemon Kulish to record particularities in the Galician dialect at the end of 1800s.

For graphical comparison see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrillic_alphabets
...

Maybe you should update that wikipedia page because section 2.1.3 under East Slavic languages is incorrect according to you, i.e. that Ukrainian is basically Russian.  See what will happen if you do that.

By your logic all these other languages are basically "Russian". Cool

If you want to make a linguistic detour, let me point out a few facts.

First, a more appropriate parallel for the English-speaking readers is in order. Consider languages spoken in England, Texas and Australia. They are all English language with at times quite large local variations in pronunciation and meaning of some of the words. Relationship between Ukrainian and Russian is much the same as the relationship between British and Texan. If I go to Texas, publish a "new" alphabet with a few additional characters to denote Texan speech, would that make Texan a different language? No.

Second, alphabets change, and that also applies to Russian. Letters were added, like ё at the time of Catherine the Great, and letters were removed after the revolution of 1917. Did that make Russian a different language? No.

Third, as Bryant pointed to Serbian and Croat - attempts to latinise Slavic languages were performed before. Shortly after "Ukrainian" was created, the same authors tried to latinise it. That attempt flopped. Lenin tried to latinise Russian - neither that got traction. Croatian and Serbian is one language with the artificial separation of the way it's written - and hey, the same people are divided too.

Fourth, just like in the evolution of the species, where by small genetic mutations you can see when a pair of species last had a common ancestor, so in linguistics you can trace when any pair or languages or dialects parted ways.

Russian and Belorussian are closest (written Belorussian is very reminiscent of the way Moscow dialect is spoken). Ukrainian and Russian are a little further apart - mostly due to the onslaught of the imported and invented words from the turn of 1800/1900. These are still so close as to be considered dialects. I know of bigger differences between the Norwegian dialects than what exists between Russian, Ukrainian and Belorussian.

Interestingly, Bulgarian and Russian is the next in closeness. Bulgarian is a language written in Cyrillic, but it is reminiscent of the way people would have been talking in Rus about 300 years ago. (The name "Bulgarian" is actually a name of the origin of these people - Volga river: Volgarí is the contemporary name of the people living on that great Russian river's shores. The change between b-v /u-o are in fact such linguistic "genetic" markers, which change, "mutate" with time.)

Serbian and Russian are still further apart. Czech and Russian have a common linguistic ancestor further still. Incidentally, Czech was initially written in Cyrillic, but got later latinised with the advancement of Catholicism. Polish and Russian follow further still. Then comes Latvian - which is still a Slavic language. After that the Germanic influence becomes stronger and you get Scandinavian languages, and German...

“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.”
“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
“It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
Balthazar
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February 14, 2016, 02:41:13 PM
 #7630



"Victory" condoms.
It's a fake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3ekvYfW7RY
galdur
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February 14, 2016, 05:47:21 PM
 #7631

Europe's Convinced U.S. Won't Solve Its Problems

FEB 13, 2016 3:32 PM EST

By Josh Rogin

Europe is facing a convergence of the worst crises since World War II, and the overwhelming consensus among officials and experts here is that the U.S. no longer has the will or the ability to play an influential role in solving them.

At the Munich Security Conference, the prime topics are the refugee crisis, the Syrian conflict, Russian aggression and the potential dissolution of the European Union's very structure. Top European leaders repeatedly lamented that 2015 saw all of Europe’s problems deepen, and unanimously predicted that in 2016 they would get even worse.

“The question of war and peace has returned to the continent,” German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier told the audience, indirectly referring to Russian military interventions. “We had thought that peace had returned to Europe for good."

What was missing from the conference speeches and even the many private discussions in the hallways, compared to previous years, was the discussion of what Europe wanted or even expected the U.S. to do.

Several European officials told me that there was little expectation that President Barack Obama, in his last year in office, would make any significant policy changes to address what European governments see an existential set of crises that can’t wait for a new administration in Washington.

“There’s a shared assessment that the European security architecture is falling apart in many ways,” said Camille Grand, director of the Foundation for Strategic Research in Paris. “There is a growing sense that this U.S. administration is focused on establishing a legacy on what has already been achieved rather than trying to achieve anything more. Yet the problems can get much worse.”

During the first day of the conference, the U.S. role in Europe was hardly mentioned in the public sessions. In the private sessions, many participants told me that European governments are not only resigned to a lack of American assertiveness, they also are now reluctantly accepting a Russia that is more present than ever in European affairs, and not for the better.

“There’s not a lot of talk about how the United States can be part of the solution. We seem to be disappearing from their calculations,” said Walter Russell Mead, a historian with the Hudson Institute. “From the European standpoint, Putin has become somebody that like it or not that they have to deal with.”

On Saturday, Secretary of State John Kerry gave a speech filled with optimism about the future of Europe and the trans-Atlantic alliance. He sought to assuage concerns about American withdrawal from the region and paint the current state of affairs in a positive light.

“We know many Europeans right now feel overwhelmed by the latest round of challenges,” he said. “I want to express the confidence of President Obama and all of us in America that, just as it has so many times before, Europe is going to emerge stronger than ever, provided it stays united and builds common responses to these challenges … We are going to do just fine.”

Kerry said the U.S.-Europe relationship was not “unraveling,” as some claim, and he pointed to joint efforts to rebut Russian aggression in Ukraine and the Iran nuclear agreement as examples of successful collaboration. He said the Islamic State would be defeated and he acknowledged the U.S. should do more to help Europe deal with the millions of refugees flowing into the continent.

Kerry then touted his agreement struck last Thursday with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov on a “cessation of hostilities” in Syria to begin in a week. He didn’t mention that Syrian President Bashar al-Assad publicly rejected the idea, or repeat his statement that if Russia doesn’t stop its indiscriminate bombing in Syria, he would go to an as yet unspecified “Plan B.”

Many in the audience noted that Kerry has little leverage with which to pressure Russia to abide by any cease-fire. There’s little faith among European officials I spoke with that Russia has any plan to end the fighting, unless it is on Moscow's own terms. Lavrov spoke after Kerry and reiterated that Russia would continue to bomb the "terrorists” in Syria, and that Russia’s view of “terrorists” was expansive.

“Kerry is coming in there telling them this is what he hopes they will do, without having a way to elicit a response to them,” said Mead. “That looks like a negotiation, but that’s not actually a negotiation.”

Derek Chollet, who served in the Obama administration from 2009 until last year, told me the White House believes that while the U.S. should stay committed to European security, it is the Europeans who will have to do more to solve their problems.

“It’s a false choice to say either America solves every problem or the problems don’t get solved,” he said. “All of our allies for justifiable reasons want more of the United States, but more of everything is not a strategy.”

In a world of limited resources, according to Chollet, the Obama administration is seeking a way to balance several competing strategic interests and manage the related trade-offs.

“You can put together a long list of individual things you could do more of, but when you add all that up it’s not a sustainable strategy,” he said. “We are not going to solve the European Union’s problems for them.”

That view is not universally held inside the U.S. government. There are officials in the State Department, the U.S. military, and especially in Congress who believe the administration should be doing much more. For example, some support giving arms to the Ukrainian military, establishing safe zones inside Syria, giving the Syrian rebels advanced weaponry to defend themselves, and doing more to remove Assad from power.

In fact, at different times Kerry has supported every one of these policies, but has repeatedly been rebuffed by the White House. Based on his speech, we can conclude he has now come to the same conclusion as European leaders: Obama is not going to drastically change his policies before he leaves office.

For Europe, that might be too long to wait.

This column does not necessarily reflect the opinion of the editorial board or Bloomberg LP and its owners.

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2016-02-13/europe-s-convinced-u-s-won-t-solve-its-problems

galdur
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February 14, 2016, 05:51:45 PM
 #7632

“There’s not a lot of talk about how the United States can be part of the solution. We seem to be disappearing from their calculations,” said Walter Russell Mead, a historian with the Hudson Institute. “From the European standpoint, Putin has become somebody that like it or not that they have to deal with.”

Yeah, yeah. Crimea gone, Donbass gone. The mob has lost all interest and certainly has no interest in picking up any bills.


bryant.coleman
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February 14, 2016, 06:11:01 PM
 #7633

Yeah, yeah. Crimea gone, Donbass gone. The mob has lost all interest and certainly has no interest in picking up any bills.

The mob has got control of the major industries and natural resources of Ukraine. They are satisfied with that. It is the ordinary Ukrainians and the Western European farmers who are paying the price for the misadventures of the mob. Unemployment in Ukraine is at all time high, and the European agricultural products are rotting in storage centers without any market.
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February 14, 2016, 06:24:32 PM
 #7634

Yeah, yeah. Crimea gone, Donbass gone. The mob has lost all interest and certainly has no interest in picking up any bills.

The mob has got control of the major industries and natural resources of Ukraine. They are satisfied with that. It is the ordinary Ukrainians and the Western European farmers who are paying the price for the misadventures of the mob. Unemployment in Ukraine is at all time high, and the European agricultural products are rotting in storage centers without any market.

Yes, but Sevastopol for NATO and Donbass for German industry, new Czechland, was probably the big dream.......

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February 14, 2016, 06:29:33 PM
 #7635

Anyway, I think it´s inevitable that Europe and Russia will merge one way or the other eventually. The Russians will join the European Union in due course with their massive natural resources. The U.S. has just been trying to delay this inevitable outcome.

It´s a beautiful unit and Europe won´t be an insignificant appendage of western  Eurasia anymore.

bryant.coleman
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February 14, 2016, 06:40:14 PM
 #7636

The Russians will join the European Union in due course with their massive natural resources. The U.S. has just been trying to delay this inevitable outcome.

I don't think that is going to happen anytime in the near future. Russia is never going to join the European Union. Russia might expand the Eurasian Economic Union by adding new members such as Uzbekistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Syria, Iraq, North Korea and Mongolia. But there is hardly any chance of the Eurasian Union merging with the European Union.
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February 14, 2016, 07:19:49 PM
 #7637

Real ATV: Russian badass lunar-rover like truck storms swamps, lakes, forests

Published on Feb 10, 2016
New Russian all-terrain vehicle Sherp can reach the most distant corners of Earth. It can easily overcome barriers up to 70cm high and swim in water and even get out of it onto ice. Its speed reaches 45 kmh on land and 6 kmh in water. It is based on renowned technologist Aleksei Garagashian’s develops.

Courtesy: www.sherp.ru

RT LIVE http://rt.com/on-air

Subscribe to RT! http://www.youtube.com/subscription_c...

Like us on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/RTnews
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RT (Russia Today) is a global news network broadcasting from Moscow and Washington studios. RT is the first news channel to break the 1 billion YouTube views benchmark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBA7pjaVZQ0

Nemo1024
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February 14, 2016, 08:25:34 PM
 #7638

Europe's Convinced U.S. Won't Solve Its Problems

FEB 13, 2016 3:32 PM EST

By Josh Rogin

Europe is facing a convergence of the worst crises since World War II, and the overwhelming consensus among officials and experts here is that the U.S. no longer has the will or the ability to play an influential role in solving them.

At the Munich Security Conference, the prime topics are the refugee crisis, the Syrian conflict, Russian aggression and the potential dissolution of the European Union's very structure. Top European leaders repeatedly lamented that 2015 saw all of Europe’s problems deepen, and unanimously predicted that in 2016 they would get even worse.

“The question of war and peace has returned to the continent,” German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier told the audience, indirectly referring to Russian military interventions. “We had thought that peace had returned to Europe for good."

...

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2016-02-13/europe-s-convinced-u-s-won-t-solve-its-problems

You've got to love how they still cling to the "Russian aggression" narrative despite all the repeated evidence to the contrary. Russia just exists - that's the act of aggression... They've added "Russia is to blame for the refugee flood" narrative to their Russia-bashing arsenal, also despite the evidence that the flood started from Turkey several months before Russia started solving the Syrian problem.

In the meantime, Medvedev said that Russia is troubled by the possibility of split up of Schengen and that Russia is ready to assist EU in solving their problems:
http://www.aif.ru/politics/world/medvedev_vyrazil_opaseniya_v_svyazi_s_vozmozhnym_raspadom_shengenskoy_zony

“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.”
“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
“It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
galdur
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February 14, 2016, 08:48:40 PM
 #7639

Europe's Convinced U.S. Won't Solve Its Problems

FEB 13, 2016 3:32 PM EST

By Josh Rogin

Europe is facing a convergence of the worst crises since World War II, and the overwhelming consensus among officials and experts here is that the U.S. no longer has the will or the ability to play an influential role in solving them.

At the Munich Security Conference, the prime topics are the refugee crisis, the Syrian conflict, Russian aggression and the potential dissolution of the European Union's very structure. Top European leaders repeatedly lamented that 2015 saw all of Europe’s problems deepen, and unanimously predicted that in 2016 they would get even worse.

“The question of war and peace has returned to the continent,” German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier told the audience, indirectly referring to Russian military interventions. “We had thought that peace had returned to Europe for good."

...

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2016-02-13/europe-s-convinced-u-s-won-t-solve-its-problems

You've got to love how they still cling to the "Russian aggression" narrative despite all the repeated evidence to the contrary. Russia just exists - that's the act of aggression... They've added "Russia is to blame for the refugee flood" narrative to their Russia-bashing arsenal, also despite the evidence that the flood started from Turkey several months before Russia started solving the Syrian problem.

In the meantime, Medvedev said that Russia is troubled by the possibility of split up of Schengen and that Russia is ready to assist EU in solving their problems:
http://www.aif.ru/politics/world/medvedev_vyrazil_opaseniya_v_svyazi_s_vozmozhnym_raspadom_shengenskoy_zony

Well yeah, I suspect that the reporter included that aggression bit for the editors of Bloomberg. As for the refugees much of them are refugees from Iraq which fled to Syria years ago and of course this whole mess has been escalating since the invasion of Iraq. But they´re not interested in discussing that now or cause and effect for that matter.

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February 14, 2016, 09:17:44 PM
 #7640

Soon enough it´ll be March and then it´ll be spring before they know it. Calmer seas and much better travel conditions in Europe. They´re shitting bricks from fear in Munich. Uncle Sam is threatening to start bombing in Libya again and will probably manage to destabilize the entire North Africa to stimulate the refugee business. Interesting times indeed.

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