Donetsk, Kharkov, Lugansk - way to Russia.

[bryant.coleman]

Tarnopol, also founded by a Polish hetman like I-F,  Tarnowski. Needless to say Lwów was in Polish hands for centuries.

That's why I have said that these people will be better living with fellow Poles in Poland. The population in these three provinces might call themselves as "Ukrainian", but in reality, they are just Ukrainian-speaking ethnic Poles. These people have hardly anything in common with Central Ukrainians or the Eastern Ukrainians.

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[galdur]

Back on March 1, 1936, well before Hitler was given Austria and Czechoslovakia, Joseph Stalin was interviewed by the American journalist Roy Howard.  And so, in answer to the question, “How does the Soviet Union envisage such aggression by Germany?  From what position, in what direction would the German forces operate?” the leader of the USSR responded as follows:

"History shows that when any state intends to make war against another state, even not adjacent, it begins to seek for frontiers across which it can reach the frontiers of the state it wants to attack.  Usually, the aggressive state finds such frontiers … I do not know precisely what frontiers Germany may adapt to her aims, but I think she will find people willing to ‘lend’ her a frontier."

Nikolay STARIKOV

Episode 14. How Adolf Hitler turned to be a “defiant aggressor”

http://orientalreview.org/2013/08/19/episode-14-how-adolf-hitler-turned-to-be-a-defiant-aggressor-i/

[Nemo1024]

Authorities of DNR accuse Kiev of further preparation of invasion of Donetsk. the recent events (provocations and artillery shelling) near Gorlovka repeat exactly what happened last week near Marjinka.

And DNR compared return into Ukraine with a suicide:
http://lenta.ru/news/2015/06/10/pushilin/

Yatsenjuk was on a boot-licking tour to Washington with the results that G7 will be imposing moar sanctionz against Russia for Ukraine's bombing of ethnic Russian civilian population of Novorossia:
http://ria.ru/world/20150610/1069146290.html

[Nemo1024]

"America’s—the expansion of opportunity for capital and the projection of power—must always remain shrouded."

WEDNESDAY, JUN 3, 2015 10:30 PM GST

We are the propagandists: The real story about how The New York Times and the White House has turned truth in the Ukraine on its head
A sophisticated game of manipulation is afoot over Russia: power, influence and money. U.S. hands are not clean

PATRICK L. SMITH

A couple of weeks ago, this column guardedly suggested that John Kerry’s day-long talks in Sochi with Vladimir Putin and his foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, looked like a break in the clouds on numerous questions, primarily the Ukraine crisis. I saw no evidence that President Obama’s secretary of state had suddenly developed a sensible, post-imperium foreign strategy consonant with a new era. It was force of circumstance. It was the 21st century doing its work.

This work will get done, cleanly and peaceably or otherwise.

Sochi, an unexpected development, suggested the prospect of cleanliness and peace. But events since suggest that otherwise is more likely to prove the case. It is hard to say because it is hard to see, but our policy cliques may be gradually wading into very deep water in Ukraine.

Ever since the 2001 attacks on New York and Washington, reality itself has come to seem up for grabs. Karl Rove, a diabolically competent political infighter but of no discernible intellectual weight, may have been prescient when he told us to forget our pedestrian notions of reality—real live reality. Empires create their own, he said, and we’re an empire now.

The Ukraine crisis reminds us that the pathology is not limited to the peculiar dreamers who made policy during the Bush II administration, whose idea of reality was idealist beyond all logic. It is a late-imperial phenomenon that extends across the board. “Unprecedented” is considered a dangerous word in journalism, but it may describe the Obama administration’s furious efforts to manufacture a Ukraine narrative and our media’s incessant reproduction of all its fallacies.

At this point it is only sensible to turn everything that is said or shown in our media upside down and consider it a second time. Who could want to live in a world this much like Orwell’s or Huxley’s—the one obliterating reality by destroying language, the other by making historical reference a transgression?

Language and history: As argued several times in this space, these are the weapons we are not supposed to have.

Ukraine now gives us two fearsome examples of what I mean by inverted reason.

One, it has been raining reports of Russia’s renewed military presence in eastern Ukraine lately. One puts them down and asks, What does Washington have on the story board now, an escalation of American military involvement? A covert op? Let us watch.

Two, we hear ever-shriller charges that Moscow has mounted a dangerous, security-threatening propaganda campaign to destroy the truth—our truth, we can say. It is nothing short of “the weaponization of information,” we are provocatively warned. Let us be on notice: Our truth and our air are now as polluted with propaganda as during the Cold War decades, and the only apparent plan is to make it worse.

O.K., let us do what sorting can be done. ....much, much more

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/03/we_are_the_propagandists_the_real_story_about_how_the_new_york_times_and_the_white_house_has_turned_truth_in_the_ukraine_on_its_head/

This man nailed it!

Another fragment from that article:

I look at this stuff now and think, Well, there may be activity on Russia’s borders or inside Ukraine, but maybe not. Those two soldiers may be Russian and may be on active duty, but I cannot draw any conclusion.

I do not appreciate having to think this way—not as a reader and not as a former newsman. I do not like reading Times editorials, such as Tuesday’s, which institutionalizes “Putin’s war” and other such tropes, and having to say, Our most powerful newspaper is into the created reality game.

A few things can be made clear in all this. Straight off the top it is almost certain, despite a logical wariness of presented evidence, that Russia has personnel and weapons deployed along its border and in Ukraine.

I greatly hope so, and whether they are on duty or otherwise interests me not at all.

First of all, it is a highly restrained approach to a geopolitical circumstance that Moscow recognizes as dangerous, Washington does not seem to and Kiev emphatically does not. In reversed circumstances, a troubled nation would have long back turned into an open conflict between two nuclear powers. Fig leafs have their place.

Highly recommended to read in full.

The picture speaks more than a thousand words. And it speaks why Novorossia (including Odessa) are not happy, why Transnitria (Pridnestrovje) wants back and why Crimea returned home.

[Souldream]

Authorities of DNR accuse Kiev of further preparation of invasion of Donetsk. the recent events (provocations and artillery shelling) near Gorlovka repeat exactly what happened last week near Marjinka.

And DNR compared return into Ukraine with a suicide:
http://lenta.ru/news/2015/06/10/pushilin/

Yatsenjuk was on a boot-licking tour to Washington with the results that G7 will be imposing moar sanctionz against Russia for Ukraine's bombing of ethnic Russian civilian population of Novorossia:
http://ria.ru/world/20150610/1069146290.html

.... OSCE post about provocation ? Or just ... propaganda again ?

[MysteryMiner]

Fuck you kremlin propoganda pidors! Russia is evil empire that constantly trough history invaded lands of other nations, held them in slavery and opression! And now you are spreading bullshit about the nation you are attacking. There is no deliberate shelling of civilian population by ukrainian forces, the only "cleansing" is done against armed terrorists who support russian special forces who invaded Ukraine.

Since the so called "ceasefire" I was left without my 2S1 Gvozdika self-propelled gun. Meanwhile so called seperatists continued to use both D30 arty and mortars. Even before the ceasefire and agreement to withdraw heavy weapons I was ordered on multiple occasions to hold fire to avoid possible civilian casualties or house destruction. Most shots were in direct fire against enemy checkpoints and fortifications that were not in populated areas. And seperatists are more than happy to fortify in multy-story apartment buildings and park their artillery positions near civilian buildings. Then they shell our positions and expect counterbattery fire, that are likely to cause collateral damage upon these buildings.

You cannot imagine how I hate those russian imperialists who spread false history and want to expand russia at expense of other nations territory! I feel a sense of great accomplishment every time I remember how I shot and hit those george ribbon wearing scumbags!

[bryant.coleman]

There is no deliberate shelling of civilian population by Ukrainian forces, the only "cleansing" is done against armed terrorists who support russian special forces who invaded Ukraine.

Take your BS somewhere else. You have been shelling the kindergartens and hospitals in the Donbass region for well over a year now. Neutral sources such as OSCE has reported about this, in their status updates. Reminds me of the school bully, who used to pick weak kids in the class, as the stronger kids would fight him back.

[Balthazar]

Fuck you kremlin propoganda pidors! Russia is evil empire that constantly trough history invaded lands of other nations, held them in slavery and opression! And now you are spreading bullshit about the nation you are attacking. There is no deliberate shelling of civilian population by ukrainian forces, the only "cleansing" is done against armed terrorists who support russian special forces who invaded Ukraine.

Since the so called "ceasefire" I was left without my 2S1 Gvozdika self-propelled gun. Meanwhile so called seperatists continued to use both D30 arty and mortars. Even before the ceasefire and agreement to withdraw heavy weapons I was ordered on multiple occasions to hold fire to avoid possible civilian casualties or house destruction. Most shots were in direct fire against enemy checkpoints and fortifications that were not in populated areas. And seperatists are more than happy to fortify in multy-story apartment buildings and park their artillery positions near civilian buildings. Then they shell our positions and expect counterbattery fire, that are likely to cause collateral damage upon these buildings.

You cannot imagine how I hate those russian imperialists who spread false history and want to expand russia at expense of other nations territory! I feel a sense of great accomplishment every time I remember how I shot and hit those george ribbon wearing scumbags!

Location: Lettland Uber Alles!

Another lunatic sprat eater, what a surprise to see you here.

I'm sorry but it seems that something wrong with your compass, your forest is there ===> |...|

[MysteryMiner]

Tell me are you russian imperialists or western tinfoil hat retards? Why You started war against Ukraine, the most closely related nation to russians themselves?

Of course, USA and NATO are shit bullies just as much as Russia is now, but the USA really have nothing to do with revolution of Maidan and subsequent invasion of russian special forces.

Of course, there is a lot of contradicting information about this conflict. I know what I seen and done. And I have no reason to tell lies. If you known me better I had no reason to hide information if I killed every koloradi ribbon terrorist and their supporter. But I did not do it although I wanted to. And nobody I know or heard about in my battalion did any of the things russian propoganda are attributing to ukrainians. So take your lies elsewhere!

[bryant.coleman]

Why You started war against Ukraine, the most closely related nation to russians themselves?

Who toppled the democratically elected government of Victor Yanukovych, and then provoked the people in Donbass by trying to ban the Russian language? It was definitely not the Russians or their allies.

the USA really have nothing to do with revolution of Maidan and subsequent invasion of russian special forces.

So Victoria Nuland might have lied, when she claimed that the United States spent more than $5 billion to overthrow the Yanukovych government.

[MysteryMiner]

Quote from: MysteryMiner on Today at 01:35:43 PM
Why You started war against Ukraine, the most closely related nation to russians themselves?

Who toppled the democratically elected government of Victor Yanukovych, and then provoked the people in Donbass by trying to ban the Russian language? It was definitely not the Russians or their allies.

Victor Yanukovitch was corrupt puppet of Moscow. He was in no means president of the people. Only russians supported him, not ukrainians.

It is bullshit rumors by Moscow that russian language is going to be banned. There is difference between being banned and not being an official state language. The same Moscow says about Latvia. Russian languge is not banned, but it is not state official language. Everyone is free to speak in russian on streets and in family, but non-russians are not required to learn speak in russian.

the USA really have nothing to do with revolution of Maidan and subsequent invasion of russian special forces.

So Victoria Nuland might have lied, when she claimed that the United States spent more than $5 billion to overthrow the Yanukovych government.

USA have spent billions on various ludicrous projects, such as contacting aliens and researching telepathy. Still most of the funds for such giant secret projects are blatantly embezzled by those who are running those projects. Yes, the regime change in Ukraine benefited USA, but it was NOT USA who toppled the Yanukovitch. It was done by ukrainian patriots such as Pravy Sektor. USA did not help by money or weapons. Unless You think that Pravy Sektor cannot acquire iron bars and wooden clubs and were supplied with them by USA

[bryant.coleman]

Victor Yanukovitch was corrupt puppet of Moscow. He was in no means president of the people. Only russians supported him, not ukrainians.

If he was only supported by the ethnic Russians (who comprise less than 15% of the Ukrainian population), then how come he received more than 50% of the total votes? The election was certified as free and fair by all of the international observers. So you can't say that the ethnic Russians rigged the polls, all across Ukraine.

[galdur]

CrossTalk: Maidan 3.0?

Published on Jun 10, 2015
Facing a horrific economic crisis and military stalemate in its eastern regions, the Kiev government has few attractive choices. Unable to solve the country’s mounting problems, widespread disaffection could possibly see Maidan Square again play host to another illegal regime change.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBzPZCFbKjY

[deisik]

USA have spent billions on various ludicrous projects, such as contacting aliens and researching telepathy. Still most of the funds for such giant secret projects are blatantly embezzled by those who are running those projects. Yes, the regime change in Ukraine benefited USA, but it was NOT USA who toppled the Yanukovitch. It was done by ukrainian patriots such as Pravy Sektor. USA did not help by money or weapons. Unless You think that Pravy Sektor cannot acquire iron bars and wooden clubs and were supplied with them by USA

If the USA spent a lot of money on stupid projects, it doesn't in the least mean that they didn't spend money on Ukraine (though it may ultimately turn out money down the drain as well). Indeed, it was not them who overthrown the Yanukovitch regime. They usually prefer that somebody else would pull the chestnuts out of the fire for them...

Regarding the Russian language status, don't try to fool anyone here (this has been discussed a lot of times already)

[Souldream]

And the Russian lie continue ....

The recent deaths of three Russian servicemen raise serious questions about the Kremlin's claim that its military is not operating in Ukraine.
Our team travelled to remote villages in central and southern Russia to find the freshly dug graves of three young men, each bearing a wreath from Russia's ministry of defence.
Anton Savelyev, Timur Mamayusupov and Ivan Kardapolov died on the same day - 5 May, 2015.
Social media activists connected their deaths through tributes posted online, and identified the locations of their graves.



Anton Savelyev died the week before his 21st birthday. A framed photo shows him wearing Russia's paratrooper uniform, the same uniform worn by 16th Brigade.
He was pictured on social media standing in front of the 16th Brigade memorial.
‎On his grave there was a wreath addressed: "To the Defender of the Fatherland, from the Ministry of Defence of the Russian Federation."
Other flowers were marked: "From comrades" and "From the command of the unit".
A lady who knows the family ‎said Anton Savelyev "died heroically" but asked us not to give her name for fear of the consequences of speaking out.
"They were sent to Rostov and in Ukraine. In Ukraine everything is done quietly," she said.
"We don't know where exactly, but somewhere there.
"It's Ukraine's fault that he died of course. It's a shame that we die for not our motherland."
From there we flew to Ufa in central Russia, then by road to the republic of Tatarstan - the home of Timur Mamayusupov.
His grave was strikingly similar to Anton's - we found the same wreaths from the ministry of defence and the unit command, and the same date of death.
Photos uploaded to Russian social media sites show Timur posing with the Spetsnaz flag, along with a service medal for the Russian military operation in Crimea last year, which was denied by Russian authorities at the time.
Other photos show Timur with the flag of the separatists' Luhansk People's Republic, and in front of a distinctive armoured personnel carrier (APC) known to have been used by the rebels in East Ukraine.
Timur's mother told Sky News she was given a notice of death from the military that said her son had died "in the North Caucasus" - a restive region in southern Russia - but no specific location.
But there are no reports of Russian military casualties around this date in either Russian or local media, or from militant groups known to operate there, for whom the death of a Russian soldier would be a powerful propaganda tool.
Guzel Mamayusupov said she had been worried her son might be sent to Ukraine, and he had told her he would go if he was asked.
"When he was on vacation I told him that if you get sent to Ukraine, let me know," she said.
"He said, 'Mum, if they send me to Ukraine, I will go, I won't refuse, but I will warn you about it'. He didn't give me such a warning."
Russia blogger Ruslan Leviev has led the social media investigation into the deaths and his network first connected the three men.
"Many relatives of both Timur and Ivan wrote on social media websites that they died at war," he said.
"We all know that there is no war in the North Caucasus, there is no anti-terrorist operations there at the moment.


Russian officials, from the President down, continue to insist there are no Russian soldiers in Ukraine and that any Russian citizens who might be there are "volunteers".‎

Vladimir Putin has since signed a decree declaring the deaths of Russian servicemen in "special operations" a state secret - but no such operations have yet been announced.

[bryant.coleman]

And the Russian lie continue ....

The recent deaths of three Russian servicemen raise serious questions about the Kremlin's claim that its military is not operating in Ukraine.

Do you lack proper English comprehension skills? Russia has never claimed that its soldiers are not operating in Ukraine. What they have been saying is that no soldier on active duty is currently fighting for the rebels in Ukraine. Some of the soldiers, who instead of going home to meet family and friends during the vacations, decide to fight for the rebels. But no soldier on active duty is fighting there.

[Grand_Voyageur]

And the Russian lie continue ....

The recent deaths of three Russian servicemen raise serious questions about the Kremlin's claim that its military is not operating in Ukraine.

Do you lack proper English comprehension skills? Russia has never claimed that its soldiers are not operating in Ukraine. What they have been saying is that no soldier on active duty is currently fighting for the rebels in Ukraine. Some of the soldiers, who instead of going home to meet family and friends during the vacations, decide to fight for the rebels. But no soldier on active duty is fighting there.

Are you sure you wrote it correctly? A serving soldier cannot go abroad without a clearance from his command authority; such clearances are not granted if the foreign country is experiencing warlike conditions and the soldier could get involved - even unwittingly - in the strife, or conflict, thus making his Government politically & legally responsible for its behaviour. A soldier cannot legally go abroad, by its own, to fight in a foreign war during its vacation. I don't think Russian soldiers are so willing to risks being taken in front of a Martial Court for such a serious violation.
If I was at Russian leadership place I would have put in place a Maskirovka to cover up a military support to ethnic Russian inhabitant of Eastern Ukraine just as Russian government was accused to do. I also think that from a Russian military and political point of view it would make sense - a lot - to provide such support to help secure a safe ground with to buffer a potential hostile rival on its very doorstep.

[Nemo1024]

Victor Yanukovitch was corrupt puppet of Moscow. He was in no means president of the people. Only russians supported him, not ukrainians.

If he was only supported by the ethnic Russians (who comprise less than 15% of the Ukrainian population), then how come he received more than 50% of the total votes? The election was certified as free and fair by all of the international observers. So you can't say that the ethnic Russians rigged the polls, all across Ukraine.

Turns out he was on my ignore list from before. I don't remember when I put him there, so it must have been a while back. A case of re-activation?  

In any case, Yanukovich was not even pro-Russian, he was pro-Yanhukovich. EU association agreement was his idea in the first place, but he started to backpedal when he realised the price tag for that association was a complete break-up of economic relations with Russia (over 60% of Ukraine's GDP) and massive unemployment, as EU would not budge on the 3-way agreement suggested by Russia, demanding the Ukraine choose EU or else... As Yanukovich tried to back out, "or else" was implemented.


Shelling of residential areas of Donetsk continued yesterday. While Poroshenko releaved the governor of Donetsk region of his post.  
http://lenta.ru/news/2015/06/11/fired/

If I was at Russian leadership place I would have put in place a Maskirovka to cover up a military support to ethnic Russian inhabitant of Eastern Ukraine just as Russian government was accused to do. I also think that from a Russian military and political point of view it would make sense - a lot - to provide such support to help secure a safe ground with to buffer a potential hostile rival on its very doorstep.

Yes, it would be very foolish for Russia not to contain the situation on its doorstep somehow. Last year, several artillery shells flew into Russian territory, killing several Russian citizens. If USA was faced with the same scenario, they'd gone ballistic (literally). Russia is responding in a very moderated way - by diplomacy.

I guess will learn if Russian special ops operated there, once the situation is resolved. What I find stupid, are the claims of the Russian regular army operating there. There are already many Soviet-trained officers from Donetsk and Lugansk, who know their surroundings, and there are several arms depots left from Soviet times. What they'd need is intel, and that can be done with no feet on the ground.

[Nemo1024]

Russian Consulate in Harkov was attacked yesterday. Ukrainian authorities think it's perfectly ok and don't bother to investigate or react:
http://www.ntv.ru/novosti/1423656/rambler

A gas pipeline has been hit by artillery and is burning near Avdeevka, Donetsk Republic:
http://www.gazeta.ru/social/news/2015/06/12/n_7281685.shtml

[bryant.coleman]

Yes, it would be very foolish for Russia not to contain the situation on its doorstep somehow. Last year, several artillery shells flew into Russian territory, killing several Russian citizens. If USA was faced with the same scenario, they'd gone ballistic (literally). Russia is responding in a very moderated way - by diplomacy.

Incidents such as these should have been severely dealt with. Else, the Right Sector idiots will think that Russia is too weak to respond. Diplomacy never works with these people, with the amount of brainwashing and the pro-NATO propaganda that is going on. If this problem isn't nipped in the bud, it will soon get totally out of hand.